Small FM Transmitter

bohsboy

I'm looking to either build or buy a small FM transmitter to cover an area of about 500 feet in radius.

Could somebody point me in the right direction for a site which might sell these or are they readily available second hand? Would it be worth my while trying to build one, as Im not that electronically gifted?

Its not a pirate station or anything like that, just always wanted to experiment.:)

Regards.

Taildragon

Are you asking about a Band II (88-108MHz) transmitter?

In that case, your only permitted option is an unmodified licence-exempt "micro transmitter" for an MP3/4 player or similar. It'll be a miracle if you get 500ft. range out of one of those, unless you are using a communications grade receiver and a high gain antenna (at the receiver side).

Anything else would be a pirate radio station.

bohsboy

Taildragon wrote: »

Are you asking about a Band II (88-108MHz) transmitter?

Yes, thats it. No hope of it?

Taildragon

Well, yes there is. There are some "grey area" solutions that would work, but we'd have the "barrack-room lawyers" on our backs in an instant if we were to discuss them here.

Google "leaky feeder" for a start.

If your intention is to broadcast to a factory, apartment building, community centre, hospital etc., then contact ComReg and ask about a Community Radio licence. The fees and conditions are not particulary onerous.

watty

Try the €8 Hieton's "iTrip" type legal CE approved FM transmitter. It has 3.5mm jack for audio in. Don't use the single 1.5V battery as the chip is designed for 2.7V (a bit distorted). Use a separately purchased 5V adaptor (perfect). I use an old Nokia phone charger.

Anything more than such a gadget is a Pirate Radio station.

Ordinary cheap TV cable is a leaky feeder, but not at FM Band II so much.
What Taildragon says.

bohsboy

Thank you very much. Your advice is much appreciated.

Fuzzy Clam

watty wrote: »

Anything more than such a gadget is a Pirate Radio station.

Watty, you haven't a clue what a pirate station is! You're totally clueless as usual!

watty

Hey... Watch who you are calling clueless.

I would have invented Radio Caroline and Radio North Sea, except I was too small to go out on my own. Pirate Radio isn't just Ships outside the territorial Waters or Roof top City station playing Niche music. It's ANY unlicensed station.

We had plenty of them up North in the No-Go areas in early 1970s.

I'm of course referring to the strict legal definitions. There are of course legal "Urban Stations" that are totally sad in their attempt to get "street cred" and Pirate Stations in some cities that exist to peddle drugs.

What's your concept of a "Pirate Station"?

sensormatic

Radio Caroline happy days will come again best radio station in cork

Fuzzy Clam

sensormatic wrote: »

Radio Caroline happy days will come again best radio station in cork

I think the Caroline referred to is not the Cork one.

Fuzzy Clam

watty wrote: »

We had plenty of them up North in the No-Go areas in early 1970s.

Radio Free Derry was 1 IIRC. I have or had a rec of it somewhere.

Is there a strict legal defination?

Anyhoo, the term "Pirate" was, I believe, referring to the fact that these offshore stations didn't pay for the music or news they broadcast. It was "pirated".
The transmitters themselves did not require licencing as they were, until the limits were extended etc, in International waters.

If i were to "cough" switch on my (imaginary) transmitter (which i don't actually have, you understand, it's just a bit heater) with no modulation, I wouldn't consider it a pirate station but rather an unlicenced carrier transmission.
In the same way my WTs which are unlicenced (and unworking) are not pirate stations even if I were able to use them.

IMO, an "iTrip" type device or even a leaky feed is probably closer to the original definition of a pirate if it's used to broadcast music around a workplace. Unless your signed to IMRO.
Ironic that some pirate unlicenced stations during the 1980's even offered to pay royalties but were refused.
Don't leaky feeder in the tunnels require licences?

10-10-20

Velleman used to have one or more kits for this.
I seem to remember that some of the 'tronics mags would cover one once a year or so.
Have a look around the net and see what you find. Some websites offer the PCB overlays as well as the diagrams and bill of material, so all you need to do is get an old waterproof marker and some etching salts and bang up a copy... all in a day's work...

watty

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Is there a strict legal defination?

Anyhoo, the term "Pirate" was, I believe, referring to the fact that these offshore stations didn't pay for the music or news they broadcast. It was "pirated".
The transmitters themselves did not require licencing as they were, until the limits were extended etc, in International waters.

No, the transmissions were "Pirate". Not allocated by the ITU

From 1949 discussions on introduction of VHF-FM radio

Interference which is the greatest menace both to the Third programme and on the Home Service, is a quite separate subject from fading-out. The most selective super-heterodyne receiving set ever made, using the most efficient outside aerial and a perfect aerial, cannot separate two stations operating on the same wave-length and it is nonsense to pretend that it can.

The third complaint that we have to make is that no adequate steps are being taken to close down the pirate station which is the cause of interference. I understand it is a Russian-controlled station which is causing this interference and which is making unauthorised use of our Home Service wavelength. I understand further that the Postmaster-General has made a protest to the Soviet Minister of Communications on this subject. I must say that I am not very optimistic about the results of the protest.
...
I think there must be, alternatively, some method of retaliation against this act of piracy

...
...
The problem for the B.B.C. is purely one of the allocation of wavelengths. As the House is aware there has to be international allocation—otherwise there would be chaos on the ether. At Lucerne we were allocated one long wave and 10 medium waves. That was in 1933. At Copenhagen last year, we were allocated one long wavelength and 13 medium wavelengths, a definite improvement on the Lucerne Agreement; but it is impossible for the new agreement to come into operation until 1950

from http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1949/mar/28/bbc-transmissions-reception

The USA Radio Stations *STILL* don't pay performance royalties, so no USA artists receive it from European stations in retaliation. That is about to change.

No. ANY unlicensed transmitter that requires a licence is a Pirate station. CB, Radio Control, WiFi, iTrip type FM transmitters etc are "Licence free" as long as CE approved. Not all such devices are legal in all CE countries hence there may be a (!) or /!\ on the box.

It's just nostalgia and romanticism to link it purely to off shore transmitters or certain music etc..

watty

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

I think the Caroline referred to is not the Cork one.

Magic

Nor are these the Droids you are looking for.

I don't want to sound a kill joy. But ANY FM transmitter other than the small CE market "iTrip" type gadgets needs a licence. Most of those designs on Net or old magazine articles are illegal and can very easily cause interference.

You really don't want to build transmitters without a spectrum Analyser, or it's a design of known spec. The ONLY home built transmitters than can legally be used are for Amateur bands with Amateur licence.

Community Radio, Local Radio and RTE can't use home brew transmitters on their licences. They must use CERTIFIED product to at least ETSI specs.

Taildragon

I think that some people get a little too hung up on the "Pirate radio" thing.

Folks, we live in the 21st Century. If you want to be a radio (or video) star, you launch your own internet station in the unregulated paradigm of cyberspace. You don't build and operate a 25W crappy Band II transmitter from a 3rd floor council flat - those days are well and truly over. Unless you're a spotty teenager who needs to get out more and discover the opposite sex, that is. [edited for political correctness]

Suggesting IMRO (or similar) involvement is to suggest that content is, by definition, copyrighted music et al. What if an aspiring broadcaster wanted to inflict us with live religious diatribe or {shudder} political "talk" radio?

As for regulatory enforcement of solutions such as the leaky feeder, where would that stop? Would you countenance enforcement action against local oscillator emissions? Crappy broadband modems? (I have a CE marked one right here that produces strong "birdies" throughout the HF spectrum). Sh1te quality baby monitors?

When I was an inexperienced and lowly student technician at the dawn of my career, I found a mentor in the form of a highly respected, accomplished, and experienced radio engineer, who (in later years) was my examiner for the Morse test (and, incidentally, succeeded in explaining Kirchoff's laws to me where college lecturers had failed). That same man had been broadcast engineer to one of the earliest English offshore fort pirate stations in the "swinging sixties".

The pirate may very well be the guy (or gal) who questions everything, challenges the status quo, and ultimately becomes the catalyst for advancement and innovation.

Fuzzy Clam

Ok. I wasn't aware of the use of the term being used prior to the late 50's.

watty wrote: »

No, the transmissions were "Pirate". Not allocated by the ITU

But not strictly illegal.....?

Taildragon

Context is paramount. The "stuffed shirts" of the BBC were vehement in their opposition to the popular culture of the "pirates", as were RTE in turn.

In the final (?) analysis, the "pirates" won the battle. ILR (Independent Local Radio) was born in the UK, and legitimate independent radio stations evolved here in Ireland too.

The advent of the internet has made the point moot, IMHO. At least, where traditonal radio broadcasting is concerned.

Fuzzy Clam

Taildragon wrote: »

Suggesting IMRO (or similar) involvement is to suggest that content is, by definition, copyrighted music et al.

yes, for the purpose of my argument that was what I was suggesting.

sensormatic

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

I think the Caroline referred to is not the Cork one.[/QUOT


but it does have a sister ship based and still broadcasting in cork.

Mike 1972

Laughably the BBC used to accuse Luxembourg of being a pirate on the basis that its (original) frequency wasnt allocated under international agreements (even though the country werent signed up to any such agreements at the time) completely overlooking the fact that the Beeb themselves werent above flouting such regulations when adherence was deemed too inconvenient.

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Anyhoo, the term "Pirate" was, I believe, referring to the fact that these offshore stations didn't pay for the music or news they broadcast. It was "pirated".

Some of them did
Others actually recieved money from record companies for playing their records (Ironic really given that the original raison d'etre of Radio Caroline was that the big record companies had bought up all the airtime on Luxembourg)

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

The transmitters themselves did not require licencing as they were, until the limits were extended etc, in International waters..

Given that (most of) the ships were registered in places like Panama, Honduras or Liechtenstein should they not have required broadcasting licences from these countries

sensormatic wrote: »

but it does have a sister ship based and still broadcasting in cork.

Its not on a ship

Actually one of the most commonly "pirated" things in pirate radio tends to be the names of the stations themselves (look at how many "Kiss FM"'s there have been).

watty wrote: »

iTrip type FM transmitters etc are "Licence free" as long as CE approved. Not all such devices are legal in all CE countries hence there may be a (!) or /!\ on the box..

There are doubts in some quarters over whether transmitters marked CE/FCC part 15 are always what they seem. And Im sure youre aware of the situation in relation to (supposedly CE approved) PLT equipment (more interference potential there than any homemade transmitter). As long as the CE process allows for self certification by non-EU manufacturers it is essentially worthless.

watty

Mike 1972 wrote: »

L
There are doubts in some quarters over whether transmitters marked CE/FCC part 15 are always what they seem. And Im sure youre aware of the situation in relation to (supposedly CE approved) PLT equipment (more interference potential there than any homemade transmitter). As long as the CE process allows for self certification by non-EU manufacturers it is essentially worthless.

Absolutely. Also how does the Consumer know the Gadget in Maplin is legal in UK and not here? The ! marked devices. Or vice versa (CBs with 4W SSB legal here and no SSB is legal in UK, or was the case).

PSUs that really are properly tested to CE and then quietly later they leave out the filter parts. There was a thread here.

Even the "really" complying ethernet wall warts/PLT networking over mains are using a loop hole and testing the wrong thing.

PauloMN

Is PLT in use in Ireland? I thought it had kinda died a death. And are those yolks that Maplin sell (the home networking via electricity circuits) a form of PLT?

Mike 1972

watty wrote: »

how does the Consumer know the Gadget in Maplin is legal in UK and not here? .

Given that we have a
1) land border
2) Widespread cheap (sometimes) air travel

Its pretty academic really.

BTW 27 MHz SSB is now legal (IIRC) in the UK but full AM isint. With power restricted to minuscule levels.

PauloMN wrote: »

And are those yolks that Maplin sell (the home networking via electricity circuits) a form of PLT?

Yes
And apart from all the RF interference issues Im at a loss to understand the point of it all.
I mean we already have WiFi and cabled ethernet for such things so whats the point of having a third (more expensive) technology ?

Fuzzy Clam

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Some of them did
Others actually recieved money from record companies for playing their records (Ironic really given that the original raison d'etre of Radio Caroline was that the big record companies had bought up all the airtime on Luxembourg)



Given that (most of) the ships were registered in places like Panama, Honduras or Liechtenstein should they not have required broadcasting licences from these countries

Maybe some of the earlier stations did pay, the Scandinavian Radio Nord perhaps.
Either way, it still was generally considered, rightly or wrongly, that the stations did not, hence the usage of the term by the government.
Payola is an entirely different situation.
Romanticism of the term, as Watty pointed out, was a factor that these stations enjoyed, nay, played on.

The idea that a ship station could/should have a licence from the country of registration is an interesting one. I believe that Caroline under Ronan, or was it Peter Moore, did look into this.

Fuzzy Clam

watty wrote: »

Absolutely. Also how does the Consumer know the Gadget in Maplin is legal in UK and not here? The ! marked devices. Or vice versa (CBs with 4W SSB legal here and no SSB is legal in UK, or was the case).

PSUs that really are properly tested to CE and then quietly later they leave out the filter parts. There was a thread here.

Even the "really" complying ethernet wall warts/PLT networking over mains are using a loop hole and testing the wrong thing.

In effect the CE mark means very little.
There was an itrip style device, CE marked, for sale in Britain for a while which far exceeded legal power limits. after a short time on the market, it was replaced with a compliant model.

I have personly built and CE marked bespoke equipment, believing it to meet standards, without any checks ever being made.

watty

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Yes
And apart from all the RF interference issues Im at a loss to understand the point of it all.
I mean we already have WiFi and cabled ethernet for such things so whats the point of having a third (more expensive) technology ?

For people that won't bother to run CAT5e (which reliably goes at 1Gbps and there is a screened flavour).

WiFi is only about 11Mbps to 22Mbps at longer range, giving 3Mbps to 7Mbps throughput typically. No QOS either. It's very unreliable to stream video unless the signal is very good. One slower gadget on WiFi can really slow it.

BT Vision have been using the PLT (ethernet over mains) to connect their hybrid IPTV/DTT box to the DSL modem. Ironically if the phone line is near mains wiring the PLT signal can interfere with DSL.

Mike 1972

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Either way, it still was generally considered, rightly or wrongly, that the stations did not, hence the usage of the term by the government.

Radio London (not sure about the others) did offer to pay royalties (MCPS ? PRS ? Both ?) but Im not sure if the relevent bodies were prepared to accept payment (They couldnt legally have accepted payment after 1967 but prior to that it was a grey area)

Some of the Irish landbased 1980's stations (most notably Sunshine) also offered to pay royalties. Initially the bodies refused to accept payment but eventually got fed up waiting for successive governments to act on their promises on regulating the situation and started accepting money. Later (c 1987 IIRC) they started chasing some the other stations for money too with varying degrees of success.

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

The idea that a ship station could/should have a licence from the country of registration is an interesting one. I believe that Caroline under Ronan, or was it Peter Moore, did look into this.

Dunno which of them were pursuing the "third world licence" an understanding of the Internal politics of the "Caroline organisation" (a contradiction in terms) is quite impenetrable by outsiders (and many insiders) there being so many conflicting (and hotly disputed) accounts flying around. What is clear though was the decision to leave the ship out in the North Sea in the after the last transmissions in 1990 was not a good one since even if said licence were forthcoming the ship was going to need some serious repair work before it could be considered seaworthy again. There were fears about the thing being seized if it came ashore by the Government, or (allegedly) Creditors or (even more allegedly) groups disputing ownership but TBH its hard to imagine anyone being interested once they saw the state of it.

In retrospect the proposition (Particularly since the territorial limits were increased from 3 to 12 miles) that in a hostile an environment as the North sea a vessel even the size of the Ross Revenge could survive more than say seven years and remain in a seaworthy question without a trip into port for some serious maintenance is a highly debatable one. The MV Norderney did manage ten years (1964-74) but it was only ~ 4 miles of the Dutch coast and did run aground at least once

Fuzzy Clam

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Radio London (not sure about the others) did offer to pay royalties (MCPS ? PRS ? Both ?) but Im not sure if the relevent bodies were prepared to accept payment (They couldnt legally have accepted payment after 1967 but prior to that it was a grey area)

Some of the Irish landbased 1980's stations (most notably Sunshine) also offered to pay royalties. Initially the bodies refused to accept payment but eventually got fed up waiting for successive governments to act on their promises on regulating the situation and started accepting money. Later (c 1987 IIRC) they started chasing some the other stations for money too with varying degrees of success.

Offering to pay and paying is not the same thing.:)
I referred earlier to some stations offering to pay royaties.
I would argue it was Nova who most notably offered to pay. They were the more PR "savvy" organisation and were keen to let the press know of this fact (in line with their clean image of not accepting ads for tobacco and alcohol ).
Although accepting a free crate of wine from The Henry Grattan for the frequent barbies was never a prob :):)

Mike 1972

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Offering to pay and paying is not the same thing.:)

When "offering to pay" involves sending them a cheque only for it to be returned the difference is pretty moot (surely you werent expecting them to walk in there with a loaded gun and force them to take the money ?)

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

I would argue it was Nova who most notably offered to pay. They were the more PR "savvy" organisation and were keen to let the press know of this fact (in line with their clean image of not accepting ads for tobacco and alcohol)

.
For a PR "savvy" organisation the whole NUJ strike saga could have been handled a bit better (even if the origins of the strike werent entirely Nova's fault or the NUJ's strategy wasnt above question either) Im not aware of any Irish pirate ever carrying tobacco advertising (unless one wants to categorise Radio Caroline North as "Irish" which is stretching it a bit) AFaIK it would have been highly illegal and while the authorities might have been (for most of the time) been prepared to overlook the unlicenced broadcasting per se Tobacco advertising would have been regarded as a bridge too far (especially on a station with a large UK listenership) Even when Luxembourg (and some offshore stations) were still accepting direct sponsorship while RTE/BBC/ITV were covering heavily sponsored sports events and the press carried a large amount of advertising.
As for alcohol many stations did advertise it (as did RTE despite occasional proposals to review this policy) not sure about Nova advertising alcohol directly but they did advertise some licensed premises and there was a rather ill judged incident where attempts were made to pressurise a staff member to consume a bottle of vodka on air !

Sunshine did go out of their way to establish a "respectable" image being among the first stations to register for VAT/PAYE/PRSI, secure planning permission, employ proper journalists, making representations to Oireachtas committees, Paying decent (for the time) wages. etc etc Their openly canvassing for a political party in 1982 might have been open to question by some though. Either way it did them damn all good in the end.

Fuzzy Clam

Mike 1972 wrote: »

When "offering to pay" involves sending them a cheque only for it to be returned the difference is pretty moot (surely you werent expecting them to walk in there with a loaded gun and force them to take the money ?)

.
For a PR "savvy" organisation the whole NUJ strike saga could have been handled a bit better (even if the origins of the strike werent entirely Nova's fault or the NUJ's strategy wasnt above question either) Im not aware of any Irish pirate ever carrying tobacco advertising (unless one wants to categorise Radio Caroline North as "Irish" which is stretching it a bit) AFaIK it would have been highly illegal and while the authorities might have been (for most of the time) been prepared to overlook the unlicenced broadcasting per se Tobacco advertising would have been regarded as a bridge too far (especially on a station with a large UK listenership) Even when Luxembourg (and some offshore stations) were still accepting direct sponsorship while RTE/BBC/ITV were covering heavily sponsored sports events and the press carried a large amount of advertising.
As for alcohol many stations did advertise it (as did RTE despite occasional proposals to review this policy) not sure about Nova advertising alcohol directly but they did advertise some licensed premises and there was a rather ill judged incident where attempts were made to pressurise a staff member to consume a bottle of vodka on air !

Sunshine did go out of their way to establish a "respectable" image being among the first stations to register for VAT/PAYE/PRSI, secure planning permission, employ proper journalists, making representations to Oireachtas committees, Paying decent (for the time) wages. etc etc Their openly canvassing for a political party in 1982 might have been open to question by some though. Either way it did them damn all good in the end.

I give up.
Your making statements of fact without being able to back them up.
Who sent a cheque?

You might not be sure of Nova's advertising policy but I am.

The NUJ thing was later and not Nova's fault. I won't go into the details here as you've already got your own ill informed ideas but there was more going on than you would ever believe. When i was there there was only one NUJ member and it was considered a non union shop which was the way it should have remained.

From the sidelines you may think you know what was going on in there but you don't really.

Thanks for reminding me of the Tony gareth incident. I recall the atmosphere in the station at the time. Tony was right to refuse and it was ill judged on Harry's part.

Fuzzy Clam

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Im not aware of any Irish pirate ever carrying tobacco advertising (unless one wants to categorise Radio Caroline North as "Irish" which is stretching it a bit) AFaIK it would have been highly illegal and while the authorities might have been (for most of the time) been prepared to overlook the unlicenced broadcasting per se Tobacco advertising would have been regarded as a bridge too far

Your missing the point!

Whether or not any stations advertised these products or not or were even allowed to, which I believe they were at the time, Nova made the point to the public that they did not endorse this products.