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Has anyone tried to sell without an Auctioneer?
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05-10-2010 2:27pm#1If so can anyone offer any advice? Do auctioneers really have a networks that are worth paying for or would I be as well of to go direct to the newspapers, daft.ie or myhome.ie?
Also as the property market is weak here could it be a good idea to advertise abroad? ..thinking of trying to advertise in Germany/Great Britain/USA.0
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Unless your house is ultra special there is no desire among any foreigners to buy a piece of a weak market.
Also as the property market is weak here could it be a good idea to advertise abroad? ..thinking of trying to advertise in Germany/Great Britain/USA.
If you even think of foreign advertising, you need an auctioneer. Auctioneers do not have networks. They have experience and knowledge of the market. How much to ask for, what market segment to pitch at, how to handle potential troublemaker buyers, handle awkward solicitors and surveyors. A good auctioneer will get a good result. Most owmers make a mess of it. I know auctioneers who pay another auctioneer to sell their own houses. It is very difficult to be sufficiently detached when selling your own house.0 -
Auctioneers do not have networks.
They have experience and knowledge of the market.
How much to ask for,
what market segment to pitch at,
how to handle potential troublemaker buyers,
handle awkward solicitors and surveyors.
A good auctioneer will get a good result.
Most owmers make a mess of it. .
what a load of manure.
what exactly is knowledge of the market ? Were in the age of technology its not hard to track the market yourself
what to ask for again very easy to track asking prices and work from there. its hardly rocket science.
what segment to pitch at. are you having a laugh ? Like EA's pitch to a segment. They put an ad on daft and myhome and in thier window. What pitching is involved in doing that ?
troublemaker buyers. They have no involvement at all once it gets handed over to the solicitors. If they were such experts at troublemaker buyers why do sale agreeds fall though ? Surely their experts and this would never happen :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Your either an EA or good friends with one. The fact is they are overglorified sales reps. Who honestly do nothing that the normal savvy, well informed person cannot do for themselves.0 -
If I was a buyer I'd prefer to buy from an Auctioneer than messing with a home owner who doesn't really know what their at and get insulted if you offer less than the stupid high price. I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to sell by owner but I know friends who tried to deal with owners and they found it impossible. Also what type of auctioneer would get another auctioneer to sell their own property surely their the one who knows the facilities of the area and house.0
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I'm not at all convinced about Auctioneers. I see nothing that they can do that I couldn't do myself.
Even worse there appears to be a a clique between various property websites and auctioneers as most will not accept private sellers, the most obvious being MyHome.ie Shamefuly manufacturing business for auctioneers by forcing people to act through them. Mutual back scratching and screwing the rest of us.
No formal qualifications are required to act as an auctioneer.....a mirage of expertise.....I agree with D3PO0 -
Asking prices may not be realistic. Owners often assume that their house has to be worth more than some other house for no good reason. What people are paying is a lot more important than what people are asking. Asking prices do not disclose the condition of the property either.what a load of manure.
what exactly is knowledge of the market ? Were in the age of technology its not hard to track the market yourself
what to ask for again very easy to track asking prices and work from there. its hardly rocket science.
Wording the ad. If you are targetting single buyers why talk about all the schools in the area? Try targetting investors in the current market and see where it gets you.what segment to pitch at. are you having a laugh ? Like EA's pitch to a segment. They put an ad on daft and myhome and in thier window. What pitching is involved in doing that ?troublemaker buyers. They have no involvement at all once it gets handed over to the solicitors. If they were such experts at troublemaker buyers why do sale agreeds fall though ? Surely their experts and this would never happen :rolleyes::rolleyes:
A lot happens before it goes to solicitors. there are messer buyers who will work on an owner selling on his own and cause massive grief. EAs often have to get involved after.Your either an EA or good friends with one. The fact is they are overglorified sales reps. Who honestly do nothing that the normal savvy, well informed person cannot do for themselves.
I am not an EA. I have done work for some. One who knows what they are doing is invaluable. There are a lot of poor EAs out there. they could seel during the boom and now can't hack it. the o/p is going DIY. It is obvious he has never negotiated a house sale. He thinks he will save money. Good luck to him.0 -
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Shane Ross last year and other years referred to Auctioneers as "A totally illegitimate profession"....I haven't decided definitely not to act through one but am seeking to ascertain what, if any benefit there would be. I am open to being convinced.........
Myhome.ie I feel are shameful, a blatant case of 'cliqueism'.0 -
Even worse there appears to be a a clique between various property websites and auctioneers as most will not accept private sellers, the most obvious being MyHome.ie Shamefuly manufacturing business for auctioneers by forcing people to act through them. Mutual back scratching and screwing the rest of us.
Er... What? The big auctioneers set up myhome (Sherry Fitz, Gunne and Douglas Newman Good) to create a shared property advertising platform. This was a great idea and reasonably well done. They then flogged it to the Irish Times for 50 million squid at the height of the boom. Genius.
You call it cliquish? They are a business... If you desperately want to be on myhome then just find the cheapest auctioneer you can and get them to put it on myhome.0 -
Asking prices may not be realistic. Owners often assume that their house has to be worth more than some other house for no good reason. What people are paying is a lot more important than what people are asking. Asking prices do not disclose the condition of the property either.
Wording the ad. If you are targetting single buyers why talk about all the schools in the area? Try targetting investors in the current market and see where it gets you.
A lot happens before it goes to solicitors. there are messer buyers who will work on an owner selling on his own and cause massive grief. EAs often have to get involved after.
I am not an EA. I have done work for some. One who knows what they are doing is invaluable. There are a lot of poor EAs out there. they could seel during the boom and now can't hack it. the o/p is going DIY. It is obvious he has never negotiated a house sale. He thinks he will save money. Good luck to him.
note i mentioned savvy individuals in my first post. Most sellers do not think their house is worth more. There is no accounting for idiots but if they use an EA they will insist on stupid prices anyway so the point is moot.
wording in the ad. Ah yes the amazing ]. NEW TO THE MARKET, PRICED TO SELL, EXCELLENT VALUE phrasiology crap they put up with. Again i revert to savvy. If you saw a similalr property with a good "pitch" its not very hard to plagurise it. Word cannot be intellectual property so this is perfectly legitimate.
theres not a lot that goes on before it goes to the solicitors its a very simple process.
You advertise to sell, somebody views. if they like the put in an offer. If your happy with the offer you tell them to drop a depoit over on acceptance of the offer. if you dont get the deposit you ignore their messing. if you get it you also get their solicitors details and you pass it onto your solicitor.
TA DA. If messing happens after this it would happen anyway. "messing" before cant happen unless somebody doesnt take a deposit and get solicitors details. Again I refer to being savvy.
EA's have no qualifications and are as expert as any joe bloggs. Fact is anybody can sell without them.0 -
If so can anyone offer any advice? Do auctioneers really have a networks that are worth paying for or would I be as well of to go direct to the newspapers, daft.ie or myhome.ie?
Also as the property market is weak here could it be a good idea to advertise abroad? ..thinking of trying to advertise in Germany/Great Britain/USA.
Have you looked at the following sites
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There's some harsh words here about EA's that are a little unjustified imo.
D3PO you make the common mistake of thinking that if you track asking prices you will be able to determine your value. Asking prices are not legitimate comparables, sale prices are. Who has more knowledge of what properties are selling for in the market that anyone else? EA's.
You also state that "EA's have no qualifications". Bit of a "manure" statement don't ya think? (to use your term!) There are honours level property degrees, IAVI qualifications, RICS qualifications, many auctioneers are qualified as chartered surveyors as well. Afaik every auctioneer office in Ireland has to have at least one member of staff with an IAVI qualification.
Once a property goes sale agreed the EA doesn't just sit back and twiddle his thumbs until the next property on his books sells (Ok some do). A good EA will speed up that process as much as they can and be the port of call for the buyer throughout this process. They are very much involved at this stage of the sale, just not as much as the solicitors.
What about the hours EA's put in? When solicitors, accountants etc. are clocking off at 5.30 EA's often work till 8 or 9 o clock Monday to Saturday. You might not respect the work they do but that doesn't mean they don't work hard doing it.
In the years leading into the boom every farmer and joe soap became an auctioneer. These idiots gave the profession a terrible name, and unfortunately there are still too many of these cowboys out there in the market, but there are genuine, hard working EA's out there that are only trying to make a living like anyone else.0 -
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I know you set out to defend the profession but i think you are actually supporting D3PO argument. I got from it that it's the exceptional estate agent who will provide a service above and beyond what a savvy realistic and intelligent individual could do themselves.
Good luck to those who provide their services well and it is a shame that the good apples are being spoiled by the numerous rotten ones.
Friends trying to sell their house recently, three local estate agents came to have a look at their property, they were willing to go with the estage agent with the most realistic price, as they were eager to sell
1) doesnt do viewings or valuations outside 9 and 5
2) came to look at the house on a saturday, gave valuation, never followed up
3) very professional, gave valuation, got the business and the sale.0 -
theres not a lot that goes on before it goes to the solicitors its a very simple process.
You advertise to sell, somebody views. if they like the put in an offer. If your happy with the offer you tell them to drop a depoit over on acceptance of the offer. if you dont get the deposit you ignore their messing. if you get it you also get their solicitors details and you pass it onto your solicitor.
Obviously you have never been involved in the sale of a house. An enormous amount goes on before it goes to solicitors.A deal has to be brokered. There are surveyors crawling all over the place for one thing. Someone views. They have to be evaluated. They might make an offer. With a lot of work they might increase it. They will do a survey. They will try and use the survey to get the price down. There may be another round of negotiation. Only after all that are deposits taken and solicitors instructed. After that solicitors may need to be chased.0 -
The problem is as a buyer i would tend to assume that you as the seller are not using an EA because you were dissatisfied with the valuation you got from an EA and were hoping to get a better price yourself.
If some how your were able to make clear the reason you were not using an EA was because you just wanted to save the fees and that you were very realistic about the price, as i buyer i might think differently...but over all i would be reluctant to get in touch with a seller who wasn't using an EA.0 -
Obviously you have never been involved in the sale of a house. An enormous amount goes on before it goes to solicitors.A deal has to be brokered. There are surveyors crawling all over the place for one thing. Someone views. They have to be evaluated. They might make an offer. With a lot of work they might increase it. They will do a survey. They will try and use the survey to get the price down. There may be another round of negotiation. Only after all that are deposits taken and solicitors instructed. After that solicitors may need to be chased.
I've posted before on this subject and can tell you from my experience, I'd deal with a homeowner anyday.
The only criteria needed to sell a house at the moment is a realisitic asking price.
Doesn't matter who waits there impatiently tapping their foot while prospective buyers look around.
From a buyers point of view,
"A deal has to be brokered" - yep, buyer makes offer,vendour accepts or declines, cut out the EA and all moves much quicker.
"There are surveyors crawling all over the place for one thing" - this will occur regardless who shows the house, the owner or estate agent.
"Someone views." - yep, the likes of myself, who would personally prefer the home owner to show actually.
"They have to be evaluated" -I'm assuming you mean trying to weed out the tyre kickers from the really interested? again, not rocket science.
"They might make an offer. With a lot of work they might increase it." -Hilarious, I'm quite sure a homeowner can also mysteriously introduce another intererested third party that's only too delighted to raise the bid by about 20k.
"They will try and use the survey to get the price down." - only if there's something wrong. And of course, i'm quite sure the homeowner can say No.
"There may be another round of negotiation." - How bad?
"After that solicitors may need to be chased." - yes by the homeowner, that ends up doing the chasing anyway.
Save your money OP, sell it yourself.
In my opinion, every word that comes out of an estate agents mouth is a lie, when they're not actually speaking, they're just thinking of their next lie.0 -
Full disclosure: I am in the estate agency business, but please don't hold that against me.
The sole purpose of an estate agent, from the horse's mouth, is to introduce the buyer to the seller. If you want to sell your property yourself, you have to ask yourself "Can I replicate this function?"
So, how do buyers find out about your property? Property listing website like Daft and "For Sale" boards. Very few purchases originate from newspaper listing and estate agent's shop windows so I wouldn't worry about them. The online listing can easily be replicated, but the "For Sale" board may take a bit more work.... but not much.
Digital printers will produce a 24" x 32" board for you for less than €60. All you need is a board design (use free paint software like Paint.net to do this) and send it to them. Then go to Woodies and buy a wooden pole, stick the pole and the board together and Bob's your Uncle. Note: council's are cracking down on For Sale boards that are in breach of litter laws so check the rules of where you can place it before you post it.
Once people call for a viewing, spruce the place up and conduct the viewings. You know the property better than any estate agent would so sell its good points.
The legal stuff is handled by solicitors (even if you used an estate agent) so find one that someone has recommended and leave the paperwork to them. This should cost less than €1000 (excluding VAT & outlays) so don't pay much more.
One thing that you might want to spring for are professional photographs as they do make a difference. Go onto www.photographers.ie to find one in your area.
Seriously, selling your property yourself is dead easy, but it's not for everyone. If you want to save a good bit of money and don't mind a bit of leg work, do it yourself.0 -
There's some harsh words here about EA's that are a little unjustified imo.
D3PO you make the common mistake of thinking that if you track asking prices you will be able to determine your value. Asking prices are not legitimate comparables, sale prices are. Who has more knowledge of what properties are selling for in the market that anyone else? EA's.
You also state that "EA's have no qualifications". Bit of a "manure" statement don't ya think? (to use your term!) There are honours level property degrees, IAVI qualifications, RICS qualifications, many auctioneers are qualified as chartered surveyors as well. Afaik every auctioneer office in Ireland has to have at least one member of staff with an IAVI qualification.
Once a property goes sale agreed the EA doesn't just sit back and twiddle his thumbs until the next property on his books sells (Ok some do). A good EA will speed up that process as much as they can and be the port of call for the buyer throughout this process. They are very much involved at this stage of the sale, just not as much as the solicitors.
What about the hours EA's put in? When solicitors, accountants etc. are clocking off at 5.30 EA's often work till 8 or 9 o clock Monday to Saturday. You might not respect the work they do but that doesn't mean they don't work hard doing it.
In the years leading into the boom every farmer and joe soap became an auctioneer. These idiots gave the profession a terrible name, and unfortunately there are still too many of these cowboys out there in the market, but there are genuine, hard working EA's out there that are only trying to make a living like anyone else.
sorry I should have rephrased. an EA doesnt have to have a qualification. A doctor cannot practice without being qualified but somebody can be an EA without one.
I havent made a common mistake visa vi asking prices and sales prices. If you have any cop on you can price your house using the market average. It doesnt take much once offers start to come in as to weather you will have to re adjust your expectations as to what it will sell at based on the number of viewsings generated or the offers your recieving.
You seem to believe theres some sort of complexity involved in the world of supply and demand. Its a pretty straight forward concept.
A good EA might speed up the process, but again its not through any complex skills they possess. Anybody can ring up and pressure their and the buyers solicitors into pushing things through. Theres nothing magic going on that makes this happen.
Im not saying there arent hard working EA's out there. Im saying 1 they are the exception and 2 even with their hard work the service they are supplying is nothing the savvy individual cannot do for themself whilst saving a significant cost in the sale of their property.0 -
Obviously you have never been involved in the sale of a house.
An enormous amount goes on before it goes to solicitors.A deal has to be brokered.
There are surveyors crawling all over the place for one thing.
Someone views. They have to be evaluated. They might make an offer.
With a lot of work they might increase it.
They will do a survey.
They will try and use the survey to get the price down.
There may be another round of negotiation.
Only after all that are deposits taken and solicitors instructed. After that solicitors may need to be chased.
Someone views --> translation EA has an ad on daft, myhome or in their office or all 3 most likely. Somebody calls them and arranges a viewing. EA arranges a time and they turn up and show them around pointing out the great aspects of the house.
Wow well done they had to answer the phone and turn up at the property and show somebody around for 10 - 15 mins maybe, and if they are efficent they will schedule viewings consequtively if multiple interest is shown to be more time efficent.
with a lot of "work" they might increase it. In otherwords either the vendor turns down the offer, and the EA goes back saying no min accepted will be X or the EA makes up a phantom bidder to try and extort more money out of some unsuspecting mug.
then if the offer is accepted then a deposit is expected THEN not as you suggest after the survey.
If there are any negotiations after the survey, the seller is involved at all stages they ultimatly decide if they are willing to or how much they are willing to negotiate by. Now if somebody cannot negotiate for toffee then yes theres value in having an EA hired, but I refer to the normal savvy individual who should be able to do all of the above.
I cant believe people on here are actualy trying in to convince that what an EA does is specialist to the degree they should be able to charge the rates they do.0 -
The Good Agent wrote: »Seriously, selling your property yourself is dead easy, but it's not for everyone. If you want to save a good bit of money and don't mind a bit of leg work, do it yourself.
Firstly fair play for the full disclosure. Ive quoted your final point which I think is spot on the money.
The only people that should need to use an EA are those who cannot or dont feel confident in negotiations. I would categorise these as the kind of peopel that fall for the pressure sell at the doorstep or get caught up with the charity workers in town etc.
Or those that are not confident enough to back themselves to go through the whole process.
There is definatly a market for EA's in respect of this but they should not be the major market player in home sales.0 -
But how dose the op who is selling his/her house with out an EA over come the predigest ( rightly or wrongly ) the he/she is not using an EA because they think there house is worth more than an EA has valued it and there for could be a nightmare for a buyer to deal with?
I say this because its only in the recent past you see so many people trying to sell with out an EA.0 -
Parents of best friend sold without EA, no problem at all. EA originally employed and instructed to pass on all offers but they found that he was not doing this.
They had it priced at 345k originally but did not get any interest, even though the same agent had many other identical properties for sale at around 375k or more.
They tested the EA when a "bogus" purchaser put in a cash offer of 275k. The offer was never relayed to them. They took it off the market and put it back privately on Daft, and sold 4 months later forn 280k.0 -
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mariaalice wrote: »But how dose the op who is selling his/her house with out an EA over come the predigest ( rightly or wrongly ) the he/she is not using an EA because they think there house is worth more than an EA has valued it and there for could be a nightmare for a buyer to deal with?
I say this because its only in the recent past you see so many people trying to sell with out an EA.
not sure where the perception that buyers dont want to deal directly comes from ? Tha tmight be your opinion but Ive neevr seen any data to suggest this is the position most people take.
From my own perspective Id much rather deal with a private seller. Looks at the last post, this isnt the first time stories like this have been heard. At least dealing directly with a private seller you know theres no bullsh*t. You know there going to get the offer.
Why somebody would be put off by a private seller is beyond me. Surely a house sale comes down to 1 thing and 1 thing only. PRICE.
If a private seller overvalues then it wont sell, thats no different than if an EA overvalues it.
Likewise it a private seller takes a reasonable view on the value it will sell regardless of the employment of an EA or not.0 -
You are dead right. Its down to price and nothing else. They sold because they were realistic about their expectations. They knew all along that with the asking price of just under 300k, they were going to generate alot of interest. This they did and got many enquires. One lead to a sale.
Sadly, the other vendors were and are still in denial, and guess what most are still unsold 24 months later.0 -
Its a chance you could take, the estate agent is working on a commission only basis if they sell they get paid if they don't they get nothing. Its up to you how much advertising you spend and how much time you have to put into the selling of the house.Sadly, the other vendors were and are still in denial, and guess what most are still unsold 24 months later.
I'd say that's the problem with a lot of people, but an auctioneer I know was telling me that a person he met who bought their house in 2006 for €170,000 now wanted to sell, but because they spent a bit of money on the house that you wouldn't see they wanted at least €230,000 for it.He told them it was worth €170,000 -€180,000 maximum and left it to them. Its up on daft now for €240,000 with another auctioneer that's based in another town. I guess kept getting valuations until they were happy with one.
Maybe their house is the exception to the rule that it can go up by a 1/3 in a property drop or maybe they just haven't a clue.0 -
Its a chance you could take, the estate agent is working on a commission only basis if they sell they get paid if they don't they get nothing. Its up to you how much advertising you spend and how much time you have to put into the selling of the house.
I'd say that's the problem with a lot of people, but an auctioneer I know was telling me that a person he met who bought their house in 2006 for €170,000 now wanted to sell, but because they spent a bit of money on the house that you wouldn't see they wanted at least €230,000 for it.He told them it was worth €170,000 -€180,000 maximum and left it to them. Its up on daft now for €240,000 with another auctioneer that's based in another town. I guess kept getting valuations until they were happy with one.
Maybe their house is the exception to the rule that it can go up by a 1/3 in a property drop or maybe they just haven't a clue.
and thats exactly it. The second EA has taken on the property just to get it on its books, knowing it wont achieve the asking price, but with a view i will kepe it on get no bites suggest a reduction and eventualyl the vendor will drop it. Its disgusting and one of the reasons I dislike EA's
If they had any integrity they would have been saying the same as the first acutioneer. There also the reason a lot of sellers are still in denial because they pander to their fanciful notion just to get the property on the books with a view to eventually making cash off it.0 -
and thats exactly it. The second EA has taken on the property just to get it on its books, knowing it wont achieve the asking price, but with a view i will kepe it on get no bites suggest a reduction and eventualyl the vendor will drop it. Its disgusting and one of the reasons I dislike EA's
I totally agree with this. So many EA's overvalue properties just to get them on their books, beat the other EA's to the property, with the view of chipping away at the price over time and eventually selling the property.
However I still think there's more to an EA than what you think. A lot of the big firms send their agents on photography courses for instance. I know that's not a major part of the selling process but with the amount of stock that is on the market at the moment bad photos could ruin your chances of getting a potential purchaser as they won't even click on your ad. Like I said I know it's not a major thing but if it puts a single potential purchaser off then it's an issue.
I agree with some of what ye're saying, but I think a good EA can make the process of moving home a far smoother process and it's a time when people can be under the most stress in their life.
You may think EA's have a simple job, but there are many EA's working their a$$es of at the moment in an extremely insecure working environment. You've obviously had bad experiences, and I'd be the first to say that there are indescribable idiots working in the profession, but you're definately painting them all with the same brush which isn't fair.
At the very least they're paying their income tax and not drawing money from the Government! That counts for something doesn't it??:D0 -
I am unfortunatly tarring them all with the same brush. I dont dispute there are some excellent agents out there, but even with that I still believe the price charged far outweights the work done.
Certainly it did during the boom. I guess its probably a shock to them that they actually have to work for the commission right now
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The Good Agent wrote: »Full disclosure: I am in the estate agency business, but please don't hold that against me.
This is no estate agent. This is a rehash of drivel already posted with a few bits thrown in. Selling or buying a house is the biggest financial transaction most people are involved with in their lives. It is highly stressful and fraught with difficulty. People who think that selling a house involves putting a few photos on the net, cleaning up their house and waiting for offers, after which the whole thing is handled by solicitors have a lot to learn.0 -
Maybe this thread should be titled " Has anyone tried to sell........"0
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This is no estate agent. This is a rehash of drivel already posted with a few bits thrown in. .
your dead right that post was drivel.
I know multiple people that have sold themselves. You have clearly never tried to sell yourself because your falling into the trap that EA's prey on, that its more difficult to sell a house than it actually is.0 -
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If I was to use an auctioneer what criteria would people here recommend when choosing one?.
As it turns out I had to resort to one for valuation and thus revenue purposes. I found a smaller auctioneer more personable and used him. A larger firm were machine like and cold as well as more expensive.
The larger firm of course claimed their greater expertise justified this greater charge. Have they greater expertise and if so if this more likely to translate into a more satisfactory sale? Or is the nation simply liquidated regardless?.
On what basis should I choose an individual auctioneer?.0
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