Has anyone tried to sell without an Auctioneer?

Ronald Sherrif

If you are planning to buy another house, it can be a good idea to give the sale of your house to the Auctioneer you are buying from. the size of the firm has little enough to do with it. There are good and bad people in firms and there are good and bad sole practitioners. The main issue at the moment is agents who have experience in your market segment.

Freiheit

I found the larger firm excessively formal, whereas with the smaller firm I met a formal, maverick type charachter who spoke off the cuff a lot. I'm selling a commercial premises, hope to buy a house with the proceeds, hopefully.

Freiheit

What would the normal commission rate be? The smaller firm quoted me at 1.5%.

Also is it possible to register with more than one Auctioneer, whoever sells get's the commission?.

Ronald Sherrif

1.5% sounds low for a commercial premises. A lot depends on how easily the premises can be expected to sell. The greater the likelihood on an easy sale, the lower the commission. The biggest question is what experience the agents you are considering have in the sale of similar premises.

Freiheit

How would experience translate into a better result?.

Is there such a thing as an easy sale in todays calamitous climate?

Is it possible that a small firm could yield as good or better a result than a giant?. A lot of the websites are clearly common, such as daft.ie

On a side note I observe that the larger firms are seeking Celtic Tiger prices still. Ridiculous valuations. Their knoweldge of the market does not impress me.

Freiheit

Is there an Auctioneer rating site? Like for books or teachers?. If not perhaps one could be formed?.

Questions didn't appear welcome. They need to explain to me why they should be hired. Wasn't appreciated.

Chipboard

crabfeet wrote: »

They have experience and knowledge of the market. How much to ask for

You have got to be joking. Daft and MyHome contain literally thousands of houses which are grossly overpriced - the vast majority of which were listed by so called experienced auctioneers.

The truth is that auctioneering is one of the only occupations where you can lie to your clients and get away with it. This is a fact. Most professionals get held to account on only their spoken word, never mind what they put in writing. Auctioneers lie all the time and I have never yet heard of a buyer getting redress.

I have had an auctioneer from one of the national firms try to sell me a site which had a planning restriction (planning declined twice and decision stated that an application would only be accepted from a person who owns min 25 acres of land within 400 metres of the site). She thought I would hand her €80k and not find out until afterwards.

I have had an auctioneer try to sell me a house which he said (to me, in the brochure an on Daft) was 3,500 sq ft in size. The house turned out to be 2,650 sq ft in size. He was including the attic and adding on a bit for good measure too. This is still listed in this manner on Daft despite the fact that I asked him to correct it.

Just 3 weeks ago I viewed a house which was advertised as builders finish. The house had no second fix carpentry (internal doors, architrave, skirting, upstairs floors). It had no stairs (there was a temporary thing the builder threw together). The site wasn't levelled, there were no paths, no kerbing and no driveway. I clarified with the owner that they intended to bring it to builders finish and they told me that the auctioneer told them that what they had WAS builders finish. Horsesh1t. This is still listed in this manner on Daft.

I could go on about the multiple times I have been lied to by auctioneers but there's no value in that - everyone expects auctioneers to lie to buyers. Let me tell you about auctioneers lying to sellers.

A guy I knew some years ago (before the bust) told me how he got a very valuable house for a song - something like €1.5m under value. He deals in property alot and was always buying and selling. He was about to put another house on the market (I'm talking about expensives houses in the €6 - 10m range). He approached the auctioneer who was selling the house he wanted to buy (lets call it house A) and told him he would give him the sale of house B, on condition that he sell him house A for X amount. Of course the lying cheating auctioneer went to the vendor of house A and convinced him that he wouldn't get anymore than X amount and the offer was going to be withdrawn unless he agreed to sell quickly.

From the point of view of incompetence, look up 10 properties on Daft for instance and view the interior photographs. Cluttered kitchens, worktops covered in kitchen utensils, delph, appliances, stacks of books and newspapers. Hideous pink paint straight from 1978 in the bathroom. A cat or a dog lying on the couch (equals p1ss soaked carpet). No attempt to present a good product. I have even seen photos on daft showing jocks drying on the radiator in the kitchen. Lovely to be thinking of that when your putting your tea towel on it later. And the quality of the photos is hideous in most cases.

We have viewed numerous houses over the past couple of years and the amount of times we have been told that the house is being sold because of a divorce is unbelievable. Knowing this and then seeing the photos of the happy families on the mantlepiece and in the hall and the kids toys in the bedrooms is very off-putting. It makes you feel like your buying something that is tainted. Would a so called expert not know that they should de-personalise the house and keep their mouth shut about the divorce. If I was the seller of that house I would be raging that 1) my privacy wasn't respected and 2) a possible sale was jeopardised.

Use an auctioneer if you want but don't listen to a word they say, whether you are a buyer or seller. In my opinion if your not capable of doing a better job than 97% of the auctioneers in this country you have issues.

As someone else said, the only thing selling now is price. No amount of lying or cheating is going to clinch the deal because its a buyers market.

Rant over.

crabfeet

There are good and bad agents.
Asking prices are agreed with the owner. It is most likely that owners are demanding that properties be marketed at excessive prices rather than agents trying to achieve prices which have no relation with reality.
I have been involved in selling property for other people but i wouldn't attempt to sell my own.
The o/p is considering selling a commercial premises himself. commercial is more complicated than residential. Commercial buyers are less likely to use the internet to source premises and will want information on rateable valuation, fire certs, three phase power, planning permission, zoning etc.
I have seen people ruined in commercioal deals which went wrong.
Getting agreement from potential purchasers is easy. Keeping things together until the cheque is handed over may not be. Some deals move smoothly and others area nightmare.

Freiheit

I have given the sale to the small but personable auctioneer mentioned. I'll hope for the best and see how it goes. The commission rate is quite low . No price will be quoted, the price will be what people are prepared to pay. If there isn't anyone biting in a month or six weeks would it be reasonable to involve a second, better connected auctioneer?.

D3PO

Freiheit wrote: »

I . No price will be quoted, the price will be what people are prepared to pay..

not a good idea. and i would think an EA worth their salt would have told you this. So not a good start by your new EA

POA or Price on application is a deterrant that prevents people from viewing.

Having no price will drive away potential buyers. You need to have an asking price but you need ti to be realistic in todays market.

Freiheit

I didn't want to limit myself by quoting a price, oh well it can always be added later.

ravendude

Freiheit wrote: »

I didn't want to limit myself by quoting a price, oh well it can always be added later.

I agree with the poster above, not a good idea. Yeah, it can always be added later, but the longer your house is visibly sitting around, the harder it is to sell. The first 3 months are the most important. Most buyers would be keeping a close eye on the market over a time and will be aware that a house has been on the market for a while, and begin to wonder what's wrong with it aside from price. They also won't be as prepared to pay as much for it if they are aware its been on the market for a while. You want to shift it as soon as possible, there's plenty of other houses out there remember.

crabfeet

The o/p is selling a commercial premises. Such premises are usually valued by well known criteria. The only chance of a high price is if a local business badly wants the particular premsise and is prepared to pay a premium. In the current market that is unlikley.
The o/ps attitude is precisely the reason buyers do not like dealing with private sellers. He cannot make up his mind. No business person will make fiorst offer. A price will have to be quoted. The quoted price can be at the upper range of valuation or slightly above. Any commercial buyer who has money left at this time is no fool. A hard bargain will be driven and the o/p needs to ensure that he attracts and holds a purchaser and gets the full value of the premises out of them.

Freiheit

Look I don't claim a monopoly on knowledge. It just did strike me, still does that a lot of what the auctioneer does, I could do myself.

I have resorted to an Auctioneer as the revenue insisted that an Auctioneer had to value my property. Also a number of websites, most obviously daft.ie are monopolised by auctioneers. None of it strikes me as rocket science. Many of the properties on such and advertised by giants of the industry appear hugely overpriced,insanely in some cases. Not exactly a great demonstration of their expertise.

However through my dealings with the revenue I have developed a good relationship with this minnow auctioneer. As there is only a charge if, big if, a sale is made, I'm prepared to give him a chance.

The Ad hasn't been designed yet but hopefully by the weekend.

Yes I'm hoping that tradition might arouse interested parties in the area. I've no illusions that it will be easy in todays climate. I hope for the best but am aware that the worst could happen. Hopefully not though.

liger

I have to say, dealing with an EA a couple of weeks ago to view a property, the rubbish they came out with can be awful.

They couldn't show the house when i wanted because they were having a sales meeting in the office, then they waited untill i got to the house to inform me they had an offer on the house, 210k for asking 230k. They claimed the owner turned down an offer of 240k couple of months ago but the higest the house was listed was 249k. Told them it was too expensive.

Yesterday the same EA put a house in the same area on the market, 50k cheaper. Did they ring and say, hey you viewed a house in area x a couple of weeks ago, we now have another property in that area for sale, would you be interested in viewing it?? Nope, i rang them and guess what, there are no viewing this weekend because its a long weekend!!!!!!

Why people need to pay these guys 2% of a sale for this type of service is beyond me. And the first house is still for sale!!!!!

Ortiz

liger wrote: »

I have to say, dealing with an EA a couple of weeks ago to view a property, the rubbish they came out with can be awful.

They couldn't show the house when i wanted because they were having a sales meeting in the office, then they waited untill i got to the house to inform me they had an offer on the house, 210k for asking 230k. They claimed the owner turned down an offer of 240k couple of months ago but the higest the house was listed was 249k. Told them it was too expensive.

Yesterday the same EA put a house in the same area on the market, 50k cheaper. Did they ring and say, hey you viewed a house in area x a couple of weeks ago, we now have another property in that area for sale, would you be interested in viewing it?? Nope, i rang them and guess what, there are no viewing this weekend because its a long weekend!!!!!!

Why people need to pay these guys 2% of a sale for this type of service is beyond me. And the first house is still for sale!!!!!

None of that seems that bad Liger, i've heard far worse stories. Vendors can be extremely unrealistic and maybe it's true that those offers were turned down. The EA can't accept an offer and any EA in the country is hardly that arsed about the price they get for a property as long as they sell it. Obviously the higher the better but with the way the market is I really doubt they're playing those sort of games with you just to get a better price.

The fact that they put the other house on at that price could mean a couple of things:

1 - It's not as good a house as the one you looked at
2 - The vendors are simply more realistic, or need a quick sale

The fact that they didn't ring you is poor quality service for sure, i'll give you that.

I think it would be fair to say that all auctioneers work weekends when they have to (maybe i'm wrong). It's a long weekend this weekend and they could have all sorts of personal plans for it. Are they meant to drop everything cos you wanna view a house?? Believe it or not EA's are entitled to their holidays too.

This is a classic case of you simply thinking the worst of every incident simply because of the reputation of EA's. From what you've posted above it seems extremely plausible that the EA has done absolutely nothing wrong bar not informing you of the new property that came on the market, so I wouldn't get so worked up

Kosseegan

Auctioneers do not necessarily keep records of who has been viewing houses and ringing them back. Anybody who is seriously looking for a house in a particular area is going to become aware of one coming on the market very quickly. Very few will work on bank holiday weekends. A lot of owners do not want viewings and a lot of potential viewers are away.The o/p is concerned about hiring an agent to sell. Like in so many areas reputation is everything.

liger

Ortiz wrote: »

It's a long weekend this weekend and they could have all sorts of personal plans for it. Are they meant to drop everything cos you wanna view a house?? Believe it or not EA's are entitled to their holidays too.

If they are running a business i'd expect them to have some staff working, yes. Barmen, bus drivers, nurses and doctors and most of the retail sector all work long weekends and only monday is a holiday not saturday which is one of their normal working days.

They moan that the market is dead and people arent buying, well if they arent prepared to stick in a bit of effort they wont get results. Also i know from having these guys into my old place that they tell people, oh we have a list of buyers looking in the surrounding area that we can contact about your property.

Ortiz

liger wrote: »

If they are running a business i'd expect them to have some staff working, yes. Barmen, bus drivers, nurses and doctors and most of the retail sector all work long weekends and only monday is a holiday not saturday which is one of their normal working days.

They moan that the market is dead and people arent buying, well if they arent prepared to stick in a bit of effort they wont get results. Also i know from having these guys into my old place that they tell people, oh we have a list of buyers looking in the surrounding area that we can contact about your property.

Barmen, bus driver, nurses, doctors and most of the retail sector - nearly all of them will take a day or two off during the week if they work weekends. EA's work Monday to Sat every week so I think you should excuse them if they take a long weekend off. What about solicitors, accountants etc.? Should they work weekends for you too?

You say they should have some staff working. Well with the downturn in the economy a lot of branches, even the biggest ones, only have a couple of staff - if even. So lets say the agent that shows the property you want to view has booked a weekend away with his or her family - What would you expect of them then?? Of course they might just be taking this week off work with no real reason but I wouldn't begrudge them that either considering they work most weekends in the year as well as Mon - Fri and evenings.

A lot of EA's really do keep lists of buyers and a lot of EA's bullsh!t that they do - I don't think there's much to discuss on that side of things, it just sums up the profession to me - there are some good EA's and some absolute cowboys

davo10

If you are considering selling without an estate agents, make sure you get your spelling right in the newspaper ad, watch this it's hilarious!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxMHBv86JSY

magneticimpulse

Yep its fine. Parents always did this to sell their houses. Just make your own sign and put "For Sale".

Loads of internet websites these days like daft.ie and myhome.ie can sell it on yourself.

professore

I bought my house privately in 1998 from an ad in the paper - got it at about £ 3 K less than the supposed going rate for houses in the same estate at the time.

Didn't have any issues with it as it would have cost the owner that much in auctioneers fees to sell it.

The only other dealings I have had with auctioneers was in my professional capacity. They wanted the world and instant response time, gave me all this BS about being 'part of the team' (Instant Alarm Bells !!!!) but yet when the invoice is sent in they are far from instant in paying it. Waiting over 3 months now for payment. Why am I not surprised.

liger

Ortiz wrote: »

it just sums up the profession to me - there are some good EA's and some absolute cowboys

Well somehow the cowboys seem to get a lot of people to sell with them!

The first never bothered to ring back about arranging a viewing. Spoke to another yesterday and made an appointment to see a house today, got there ( Different lady than on the phone showing it ) and the agent says, Now you know this one is sold dont you, contracts are being signed next week. Like WTF!! :mad:

Very frustrating.

arybvtcw0eolkf

The Good Agent wrote: »

Seriously, selling your property yourself is dead easy, but it's not for everyone. If you want to save a good bit of money and don't mind a bit of leg work, do it yourself.

So genuine question, do you think a degree in property economics is a waste of time then?.

The Good Agent

Phillip Echoing Mandible wrote: »

So genuine question, do you think a degree in property economics is a waste of time then?.

I don't think education of any kind is a waste of time, but I know that's not what you are asking.

A degree in property economics will cover a great deal more than the process of selling a house, e.g., property development and asset management, and someone who has completed such a degree will not have done so in order to learn the best way to sell their property; I would imagine that they would have their sights set higher.

Regards,
Barry