.22 Semi Auto Tactical

bunny shooter

From my personal experience (it was a civil matter) talking sense and telling the truth just isn't enough Glad his expertise done the trick for ya but was it the deciding factor?

Grizzly I agree that the law is written arseways but there's a reason for that If it was straight forward we'd know what we could/could not have. This way the Gardai get to interpret it whatever way they want. If a shooter takes a case against a refusal he will pay the price to get clarification even better in their eyes if he gets nailed and they can revoke his licence/s. If the Gardai don't get the desired outcome they get the law changed :eek:

Grizzly 45

bunny shooter wrote: »

From my personal experience (it was a civil matter) talking sense and telling the truth just isn't enough Glad his expertise done the trick for ya but was it the deciding factor?

Well, from MY experiance of being in court,telling the truth is just fine!As that way you can NEVER be caught out.If you embellish,warp or whatever,your evidence you WILL be caught.
Why do you think it has been mentioned about Insp Brooks interrgation methods in the courts here???He was /is trying to catch people out in the box about their firearms.
Dont ever know did he...We never got that far.:rolleyes:

Grizzly I agree that the law is written arseways but there's a reason for that If it was straight forward we'd know what we could/could not have. This way the Gardai get to interpret it whatever way they want. If a shooter takes a case against a refusal he will pay the price to get clarification even better in their eyes if he gets nailed and they can revoke his licence/s.

you know its funny.EVERY country in the EU or the US can draw up EXACTLY what is permissible or not for their citzens to own in firearms and weaponary,and describe EXACTLY what firearm is allowed or not.In plain understandable legalese of their respective lingo
Bar here!!:mad::mad:.Why is that exactly??

FACT is,Tell the truth,there is nothing they can do.If you are not willing to fight a corrupt power to keep your gun or whatever,then dont come crying to us.Somtimes everyone has to draw a line in the sand and say enough!

If the Gardai don't get the desired outcome they get the law changed :eek:

If you have a symapthetic anti gun justice minister that is.And the Gardai are finding that the LAW APPLIES TO THEM AS MUCH AS IT DOES TO US .Especially the firearms acts!

bunny shooter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well, from MY experiance of being in court,telling the truth is just fine!As that way you can NEVER be caught out.If you embellish,warp or whatever,your evidence you WILL be caught.
Why do you think it has been mentioned about Insp Brooks interrgation methods in the courts here???He was /is trying to catch people out in the box about their firearms.
Dont ever know did he...We never got that far.:rolleyes:

The truth is grand once the law doesn't allow for someones opinion to be deciding factor. I prefer black & white law, grey just costs too much

I don't understand what your reference to Insp. Brooks is about.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

you know its funny.EVERY country in the EU or the US can draw up EXACTLY what is permissible or not for their citzens to own in firearms and weaponary,and describe EXACTLY what firearm is allowed or not.In plain understandable legalese of their respective lingo
Bar here!!:mad::mad:.Why is that exactly??

If you read my previous post I explain my opinion on why they have vague laws

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.......If you are not willing to fight a corrupt power to keep your gun or whatever,then dont come crying to us.Somtimes everyone has to draw a line in the sand and say enough!

I didn't fight my moderator refusal which I assume is what you're referring to. I didn't because my wife didn't want me to. And for peace & harmony at home I refrained from taking a case. She is afraid there will be reprisals against her and me from the Gardai, simple as that ! So your noble idea of standing up to the 'oppressors' in my case was stopped in it's tracks by the fear of reprisals from those who are supposed to be in the position of protecting me and my rights. Nice country we live in, isn't it !

And I haven't "come crying" to you or anyone else. I simply reported it. Same as you did with your victory over the 'oppressors'

And believe me I have my proverbial sabre drawn and am about to draw that proverbial line in the proverbial sand too

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If you have a symapthetic anti gun justice minister that is.And the Gardai are finding that the LAW APPLIES TO THEM AS MUCH AS IT DOES TO US .Especially the firearms acts!

And if anyone thinks for one minute that his replacement will reverse anything he has done ye will be disappointed

CJhaughey

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

EVERY country in the EU or the US can draw up EXACTLY what is permissible or not for their citzens to own in firearms and weaponary,and describe EXACTLY what firearm is allowed or not.In plain understandable legalese of their respective lingo
Bar here!!:mad::mad:.Why is that exactly??

Its the same disease that has kept reloading from being a *mainstream* shooting activity. The fear that if something goes wrong someone somewhere will be blamed. (although not accountable)

tac foley

bunny shooter wrote: »

... She is afraid there will be reprisals against her and me from the Gardai, simple as that !

Of all the numerous unpleasant things I have read on this site over the last year or so, that comment has to be the most appalling statement imaginable.

For a law-abiding citizen to declare that she is afraid of the national police force is NOT something we expect to hear about in Western Europe.

I'm stunned.

tac

sfakiaman

tac foley wrote: »

Of all the numerous unpleasant things I have read on this site over the last year or so, that comment has to be the most appalling statement imaginable.

For a law-abiding citizen to declare that she is afraid of the national police force is NOT something we expect to hear about in Western Europe.

I'm stunned.

tac

Welcome to the real world. Your career in the military has probably shielded you from some of the realities of civilian life. I mean no disrespect in saying that but I've been on both sides of that equation.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So unless there is a clear defination as to what an "assault rifle" looks like in Irish law,this is very wide open again.

From the Restricted List SI:

“assault rifles” means—
(a) rifles capable of functioning as semi-automatic firearms and as automatic
firearms,
(b) firearms that resemble such rifles;

In other words, it's completely down to the PTB, whether that be in the form of a Garda Superintendent, Garda Chief Superintendent, or the District Court Judge. Pick any select-fire rifle out there with a fully automatic mode available on it, and if your rifle looks like any of those, then for the purposes of the Act, it's an assault rifle.

It's stupid, but it's the law... for now, at least. Better to change it than to butt heads against it.

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

And if anyone thinks for one minute that his replacement will reverse anything he has done ye will be disappointed

Why?
He's reversed things his predecessors did, as well as things he did, which would have been even more harmful to our sports if they'd gone ahead. Not to mention that his predecessors all changed things their predecessors had done as well.

Sparks

CJhaughey wrote: »

Its the same disease that has kept reloading from being a *mainstream* shooting activity.

So far.
There's a pilot project going ahead with 30 or so shooters in the Midlands, they have all the facilities built and ready to go, and it's hard to see the PTB not rolling out reloading after a successful pilot project like that. And after that comes black powder shooting. And after that comes whatever's next, and bit by bit, the job gets done.
It's not fast; it's not sexy; it's not shouty; and no-one gets to play the hero; but it sticks when you do it this way.

Sparks

tac foley wrote: »

For a law-abiding citizen to declare that she is afraid of the national police force is NOT something we expect to hear about in Western Europe.

No offence intended tac, but many innocent Irish people in the UK during the 1980s and early 1990s were far more afraid of the UK police and with good reason. And it's not even limited to Ireland and the UK - being afraid of unprofessional or even unethical and illegal conduct by a national police force is something that every western state out there can say their citizens suffer from, from America to Ireland to the UK to continental european countries.

dCorbus

many innocent Irish people in the UK during the 1980s and early 1990s were far more afraid of the UK police and with good reason

Major +1

And it's not even limited to Ireland and the UK

Ever been stopped by the BGS when you've forgotten to put your Aufenthaltserlaubnis in your backarse pocket?:eek::eek:
Now, that's a butt-clenching moment to make one very fearful of a national police force!!!!

And then there's always what happened to the McBrearty Family in Donegal to make one VERY fearful of what can and does go wrong when someone in a position of power / authority decides to make ones life a tad more difficult.

afraid of the national police force is NOT something we expect to hear about in Western Europe

You're correct: It's not something we expect to hear about in Western Europe, but unfortunately there have been cases to indicate that the Reality is on occasion not as neat and tidy as our Expectations.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=bunny shooter;68379367]The truth is grand once the law doesn't allow for someones opinion to be deciding factor. I prefer black & white law, grey just costs too much

It is opinion not LAW.And if opinion was a deciding factor in law we would be still burning witches at the stake outside the four courts.:p
Opinion is there to suggest merits or demerits of a paticular problem,be it law or otherwise.

I don't understand what your reference to Insp. Brooks is about.

The fact that when you are in the Witness box,he goesover the same points again,again and again,goes off on a different tangent and ten mins later comes back to the point you have explained ten times before.It is a standard interrogation police trick.If you are porkie pie ing,you have to have the details dead pat all the time .Any slight deviance and they use it as a lever into the chink of your armour of the story. Crude but effective,

If you read my previous post I explain my opinion on why they have vague laws

I did,and I dont agree with it,and thats why there many challanges to it as well.

I didn't fight my moderator refusal which I assume is what you're referring to. I didn't because my wife didn't want me to. And for peace & harmony at home I refrained from taking a case. She is afraid there will be reprisals against her and me from the Gardai, simple as that ! So your noble idea of standing up to the 'oppressors' in my case was stopped in it's tracks by the fear of reprisals from those who are supposed to be in the position of protecting me and my rights. Nice country we live in, isn't it !

Indeed,she is very right.That was my mums opinion too,until she discoverd she was refused her liscenses after 25 years.Suddenly a 70 year old woman was suddenly a
danger to the public,and "other" reasons:mad::mad::mad:. VERY BAD move on their part..For somone who grew up in a real police state ,namely Berlin in the 3rd Reich,she is well aware of what a police state is like and can do,and always has lived of dont attract trouble to yourself.This was the final straw for her.
Yeah,I know that there is the chance of "reprisals" But the more public it becomes the better.I know for a fact.I've been targeted because of my more outspoken critiques of the Gardai/DOJ here on Boards.ie.I know it affected a dealership application and me joining a club in the Limerick reigion because of it.It was also no doubt why my mothers applications were refused as well.But if you dont stand up and say this is happening
it will continue.Give a bully an inch he will take a mile.

And I haven't "come crying" to you or anyone else. I simply reported it. Same as you did with your victory over the 'oppressors'
[/QUOTE]

Bunny ,NONE of my previous posts were aimed at you personally...I was speaking in the broadest terms possible.Please dont takeit as a personal comment on your caseso apologies for any misunderstanding..

And believe me I have my proverbial sabre drawn and am about to draw that proverbial line in the proverbial sand too

Good stuff....:)

And if anyone thinks for one minute that his replacement will reverse anything he has done ye will be disappointed

As Sparks pointed out,there is always a good possibility of that happening,butI would tend to agrre with youon this ,not so much as he will say"Ah sorry there lads,all a big mistake.No bother assault rifles and handguns for all."But rather keep moving it back down to the bottom of the IN tray on his desk when it reaches the bottom of the pile so some other poor sod can deal with it when his arse is behind the desk. Thats the reason this whole sorry mess came up IMO in the frirst place,as no one wanted to face up to the fact that Irish citizens property was in Govt hands,quasi illegaly since 1972,and the main reason for holding onto it was long gone,and no one wanted to bell that cat and give the stuff back out.Also because your main "colleuge" in the DOJ happens to be the Garda Cheif comissioner,and he "advises" you on whats happening out there.So if he" advises " you that this would be a bad political move on your part as there will be massacres aplenty within ten mins of the stuff being given back..And youknow sweet FA about guns...Who are you to argue??
Ergo we have a police officer controlling a minister,thus we have a police controlled state.

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

Grizzly I agree that the law is written arseways but there's a reason for that If it was straight forward we'd know what we could/could not have. This way the Gardai get to interpret it whatever way they want. If a shooter takes a case against a refusal he will pay the price to get clarification even better in their eyes if he gets nailed and they can revoke his licence/s. If the Gardai don't get the desired outcome they get the law changed :eek:

Seriously bunny, that's not the way law is written. It gets drafted with a particular goal in mind, gets re-drafted a number of times and goes to the AGs office. Invariably it comes back to the drafters with so much red pen on it that it has to be almost started again. This goes on for an interminable length of time until eventually it gets sorted. By that time, if whoever originally drafted it had been out of the loop until they saw the finished article, they'd never recognise it.

If you don't believe this, get the draft of the ranges SI off the NASRPC or NTSA websites and save it on your computer. Keep it in cold storage until the final SI is published and compare the two.

I guarantee (without any prior knowledge) that they will be like chalk and cheese.

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

No offence intended tac, but many innocent Irish people in the UK during the 1980s and early 1990s were far more afraid of the UK police and with good reason.

AND it is STILL Alive and WELL in the UK to THIS VERY DAY!!
Forget all this stuff about "peace process" suff and other such.We are alll still very much"Paddy the IRA Man" off to no good in the UK.:mad::mad:.
It is now much worse under the UK prevention of terrorism act 2008.You can now literally "disapper" in the system under that act without recourse to legal council or them even informing your next of kin that you are dertained!!!.Wouldnt set foot in the UK ever again if I was Irish!!!:eek:
This is coming BTW from a friend and colleuge who I would trust implicity 100% who just very recently had the misfortune of ending up being grilled by the UK counter terrorism police and detained for three days incognito.
You wouldnt belive it untill you heard it.!!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

bunny shooter

Grizzly, no hassle, we're all the same band of tinkers so to speak

In a previous job I did interview (interrogation) courses :P Been on the recieving end in a civil court too. Like ya say if your telling the truth they can't catch you out

Tac, regarding the wife's fear of reprisal, whether it's true or not her fear is real.

GreatGayHunter

Couldn't help myself........

Tack Driver class of 101.

G.G.H.

gunhappy_ie

GreatGayHunter wrote: »

Couldn't help myself........

Tack Driver class of 101.

G.G.H.

Nice .. I see youve got a eye for designer gear :P:P:P

GreatGayHunter

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Nice .. I see youve got a eye for designer gear :P:P:P

Concerned about the stock, was looking for Magpul PRS big money for .22

Dear Santa....... 2015 maybe:rolleyes:

G.G.H

gunhappy_ie

GreatGayHunter wrote: »

Concerned about the stock, was looking for Magpul PRS big money for .22

Dear Santa....... 2015 maybe:rolleyes:

G.G.H

not at all... :P all the parts will swap over when you come over to the dark side and get a semi auto .223

GreatGayHunter

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

not at all... :P all the parts will swap over when you come over to the dark side and get a semi auto .223

You mean....... I can Play with the Big Boys...... Dear Mr. BushMaster.....( In Camo)....

G.G.H.

Grizzly 45

Indeed.Join us on the Dark Side of the Force...We've got cookies!!:eek:

GreatGayHunter

Cheers, "Cookies" is that code for Reloading kit? the way I shoot I'd need one of those bank bailouts for 223/243... or .22 converter (as seen online???)

Grizzly 45

As in the eating kind!:D