Coup under way at Liverpool FC

Daemonic · 08-10-2010 9:30am

Mental Mickey wrote: »

I honestly can't see how these new guys are gonna be any better than George & Mildred??

After all they are still Yanks with one thing in mind - personal profit. IMO anyone who thinks otherwise, is in dreamworld.

Being Yanks is irrelevant. For a club costing 300m you'll get either a sugar-daddy owner which has it's appeal short-term but it is still essentially a plaything for someone who may grow bored and leave the club high and dry.
The second option is a business with profit in mind. That isn't necessarily a bad thing if they understand how sport works, i.e. success on the sport side means success commercially. Personally I'd much prefer the second option as growing the 'business' so that it can pay for itself is how it should be done.

Mental Mickey · 08-10-2010 9:33am

Daemonic wrote: »

Being Yanks is irrelevant. For a club costing 300m you'll get either a sugar-daddy owner which has it's appeal short-term but it is still essentially a plaything for someone who may grow bored and leave the club high and dry.
The second option is a business with profit in mind. That isn't necessarily a bad thing if they understand how sport works, i.e. success on the sport side means success commercially. Personally I'd much prefer the second option as growing the 'business' so that it can pay for itself is how it should be done.

I hope they don't turn out to be sugar daddy's then!?

Dont be at yourself · 08-10-2010 9:42am

Liverpool is capable of being a profitable club, it just requires investment. A debt-free Liverpool generates profit of close to £40 million per year, and that's before a stadium is built to increase revenue.

Tom and George's problem wasn't that they wanted profit. It's that they laid all the aquisition debt on the club, which sucked up all the profit. NESV by all accounts don't have to, or want to, do this.

Daemonic · 08-10-2010 9:51am

The fact the new owners are American is probably a good thing really, it has everyone paranoid and searching for as much info on them as possible. Everything so far seems positive, they're in it for profit but have a decent track record of making money and having successful teams.
When G&H took over everyone was caught up in the hype but the same amount of paranoia would have led to Hicks involvement in the Corinthians debacle being posted. In fact it probably was and was ignored as we all wanted to believe they'd fulfill their promises, I don't recall, but so far this set of 'Yanks' look like fit and proper owners but only time will tell.

Mental Mickey · 09-10-2010 2:01pm

I heard the dreaded A word being mentioned again today. Will G&H end up not being able to pay off their money???

Will we go into administration??

Daemonic · 09-10-2010 2:14pm

Administration and a points deduction wouldn't surprise me if the High Court don't rule that the board acted legally and rubber stamp the sale on Tuesday and RBS call in the loans on Friday. IMO the premier league will be worried about protests from other clubs and will impose the deduction. No point worrying about it until we see what happens in court on Tuesday.

Mental Mickey · 09-10-2010 2:18pm

True, although 'tis a sad state of affairs if a club like LFC ends up in the bloody Championship!?

HyperSkypeWiper · 09-10-2010 2:28pm

Mental Mickey wrote: »

True, although 'tis a sad state of affairs if a club like LFC ends up in the bloody Championship!?

Thats just what they all said about Leeds, they're too big, it'll never happen. Look at them now.... just remember Liverpool fans , you're never too big.

Mental Mickey · 09-10-2010 2:30pm

I have an uneasy feeling that we're gonna be spending a couple of seasons in the Championship......??

Handsome Bob · 09-10-2010 2:56pm

Mental Mickey wrote: »

??

That part of your post says it all chief tbh.

jesus_thats_gre · 09-10-2010 3:36pm

Mental Mickey wrote: »

I have an uneasy feeling that we're gonna be spending a couple of seasons in the Championship......??

Goodness me Mickey. It's all well and good being a cynic but you are going way over the top.

GSPfan · 09-10-2010 3:44pm

This whole situation is mad. I actually think Liverpool going in to administration is a great thing for the rest of the football world. (I'm not hoping it happens). I can see Uefa goin mental over it.

Mushy · 09-10-2010 4:44pm

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Goodness me Mickey. It's all well and good being a cynic but you are going way over the top.

If ye do go into administration you could very well go down. I'd be surprised if ye went down this season, but without a new owner and being on minus points now, it'd be very tough for the team. If you do get new owner, then you'll have no trouble in doing well over next few seasons.

The Rooster · 09-10-2010 4:50pm

GSPfan wrote: »

This whole situation is mad. I actually think Liverpool going in to administration is a great thing for the rest of the football world. (I'm not hoping it happens). I can see Uefa goin mental over it.

There's a lot of clubs in a similar position to Liverpool, such as United. Both Liverpool and United would operate with handsome profits but its more than offset by the interest payments on their huge net debt (debt less cash).

Its probably lucky for Liverpool that RBS are so aggressive in wanting the capital elements of the loans repaid, otherwise H&G would be continuing on goodo like the Glaziers, with ever increasing debts because still can't make enough profits to pay all the interest.

Dr Galen · 09-10-2010 5:17pm

Apparently there is a Plan B if the court case goes against Broughton and Co on Tuesday.

RBS will sell the debt to NESV. The debt will then be payable to NESV who will cal it in from G&H. They will be unable to pay it off, and so the ownership will transfer to NESV. This would prevent administration coming about, as the club wouldn't be owing any money to RBS, and it would be a transfer of ownership. A bit like a variant on NAMA in one sense.

The reports of administration on the horizion need to be seen for what they are, pressure from Broughton et al before the Court hearing. Painting a doom and gloom scenario before the case is backing up what they will be saying on court. Although the case itself is not about the actual sale of the club. Its about the move to approve the sale and G&H moves to reform the board. The courts arent bothered by the nitty gritty, they are simply there to say that Broughton is acting in the interest of the company. Put simply the court is approving Broughtons actions, which in turn will lead to the sale of the club.

Mental Mickey you need to calm the fcuk down mate. Your in danger of becoming far too close to your username here.

Dr Galen · 09-10-2010 5:29pm

found the link for some of what Im talking about above

A request to a court to validate the sale would be lodged on Wednesday, Mr Broughton said, adding that he expected it to be heard by the end of next week.

An appeal process would be "very fast" but even if the US owners won in court, the board would revert to a "Plan B", Mr Broughton said, without going into detail.

That is likely to involve lenders calling in loans to Mr Hicks and Mr Gillett that are secured against shares in the club rather than its assets, and transferring the shares to NESV. Such a move could avoid the club incurring a nine-point penalty for going into administration.

Mr Broughton also revealed that the US owners put forward two refinancing proposals in the past week - one on Sunday for a loan extension that would provide more time to complete a sale, and another on Monday that took the form of a letter from a third party saying it needed 60-90 days to finalise a refinancing package.

The agreement with NESV includes a commitment to fund stadium redevelopment, although the Red Sox owners want to explore the option of expanding the club's Anfield stadium to 60,000-seat capacity before deciding whether to fund a new stadium development.

That would cost about £400m.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/chairman-on-the-offensive-in-liverpool-clash-ftimes-859083f486e4.html

Helix · 09-10-2010 7:21pm

the premier league already said the club wont be docked points if they go into administration, just like what happened with west ham last season

Corholio · 09-10-2010 7:26pm

Helix wrote: »

the premier league already said the club wont be docked points if they go into administration, just like what happened with west ham last season

I think they said thats only if new ownership is in place at the time. As it stands they would be docked points.

Dr Galen · 09-10-2010 7:26pm

that was initially what was thought Helix, but since then it has come out that Scudamore thinks that the tangle is too great to separate club from holding company and that the penalty would apply.

There are no recent direct quotes though from him so until that happens its pretty much guesswork

Fuhrer · 09-10-2010 7:28pm

Helix wrote: »

the premier league already said the club wont be docked points if they go into administration, just like what happened with west ham last season

No, they said the exact opposite.

jesus_thats_gre · 09-10-2010 7:43pm

Fuhrer wrote: »

No, they said the exact opposite.

They have actually made both statements - believe it or not.

Neil3030 · 10-10-2010 12:03pm

Could a special case not be made for lfc, regarding points deduction in administration? My understanding is that the points deduction rule is there to deter clubs from spending beyond their means on players and wages, or anything that would thus giving them an unfair advantage. Portsmouth and Leeds, for example.

In my mind the situation at lfc was/is very different, in that the club was gaining no competitive advantage from having to pay off large interest payments with their surplus cash, rather than allocating same to buying players or improving the stadium.

Basically the FA see the Portsmouth/Leeds scenario as cheating, and worthy of a consequential points ban. I wouldn't be so sure the lfc situation is the same.

wynters · 10-10-2010 12:09pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Could a special case not be made for lfc, regarding points deduction in administration? My understanding is that the points deduction rule is there to deter clubs from spending beyond their means on players and wages, or anything that would thus giving them an unfair advantage. Portsmouth and Leeds, for example.

In my mind the situation at lfc was/is very different, in that the club was gaining no competitive advantage from having to pay off large interest payments with their surplus cash, rather than allocating same to buying players or improving the stadium.

Basically the FA see the Portsmouth/Leeds scenario as cheating, and worthy of a consequential points ban. I wouldn't be so sure the lfc situation is the same.

Administration is administration. Dock them.

Mental Mickey · 10-10-2010 12:17pm

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_6437201,00.html

Re: The very last bit: Pfffffft yeah sure he is!! :rolleyes:

Mister men · 10-10-2010 12:21pm

Mister men · 10-10-2010 12:22pm

Mental Mickey wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_6437201,00.html

Re: The very last bit: Pfffffft yeah sure he is!! :rolleyes:

Lol. I love it :pac:

Mental Mickey · 10-10-2010 12:29pm

Mister men wrote: »

Lol. I love it :pac:

I'd love to know where they're getting their information from?? They were outside Anfield reporting on this "breaking news".

Mental Mickey · 10-10-2010 12:45pm

Mister men wrote: »

Very funny:D

invinciblePRSTV · 10-10-2010 1:55pm

wynters wrote: »

Administration is administration. Dock them.

Nah you're wrong. This is Liverpool, special makey up rules will be found or re-interprated to ensure that they will get away with it.

mike65 · 10-10-2010 1:56pm

Ah the bitterness, boo hoo nonsense is great to read.

Mental Mickey · 10-10-2010 2:19pm

mike65 wrote: »

Ah the bitterness, boo hoo nonsense is great to read.

If they - whoever it is they follow - were in the same position, they would be trying to appeal to the powers that be not to send them into administration.

mike65 · 10-10-2010 2:27pm

Obviously!

Anyway as was pointed out on the LFC thread there is no need to go to admin regardless of the court case. At worst RBS would roll over the debt for a few days and then NESV take over as the club is moved into their hands by RBS.

invinciblePRSTV · 10-10-2010 2:36pm

What's there to be bitter about? A club going into administration but not receiving points deductions would be great news for every club in the PL struggling with debt, even if it shows the weak backbone of the PL organisation if it can be bullied into relenting.

However if i were Pompeys legal eagles i'd be getting ready to sue the PL if Pool are sent into admin and don't receive penalties.

mike65 · 10-10-2010 2:42pm

Pompey couldn't pay their way and had no one coming to their rescue, neither of which apply to Liverpool.

Mental Mickey · 10-10-2010 4:23pm

mike65 wrote: »

Obviously! Anyway as was pointed out on the LFC thread there is no need to go to admin regardless of the court case. At worst RBS would roll over the debt for a few days and then NESV take over as the club is moved into their hands by RBS.

Then where the **** are Sky Sports News getting their information from?

Fuhrer · 10-10-2010 4:28pm

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Then where the **** are Sky Sports News getting their information from?

The question is where is Mike getting his information, its already been said by the chief of the Premier League that if they go into administration then they get docked.

This is the official head of the league, not some anonymous inside source.

Mental Mickey · 10-10-2010 4:30pm

Fuhrer wrote: »

The question is where is Mike getting his information, its already been said by the chief of the Premier League that if they go into administration then they get docked.

This is the official head of the league, not some anonymous inside source.

Is he getting tipped off, or are they just making this s**t up??

ctrl-alt-delete · 10-10-2010 4:39pm

If they go into administration they surely will be docked points. West ham avoided it due to the Parent Company being crippled by events outside the club, Liverpool will not be able to make a case against it.

I don't see RBS going easy on the situation either and lending a hand, as far as I am aware it is taxpayers money that will be due as a result, and the British Tax payer really can't afford to be writing off money owed.

Mental Mickey · 10-10-2010 4:48pm

Broughton & Purslow are extremely confident that this(administration)won't happen!? And they are a hell of a lot closer to what's going on than Sky Sports News are.

Helix · 10-10-2010 6:22pm

Mental Mickey wrote: »

I'd love to know where they're getting their information from?? They were outside Anfield reporting on this "breaking news".

You need to stop paying so much attention to sky sports. It sounds like its really getting to you

Mental Mickey · 10-10-2010 6:24pm

Helix wrote: »

You need to stop paying so much attention to sky sports. It sounds like its really getting to you

Point me in a more reliable direction then?? Please.

10-10-2010 6:49pm

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Point me in a more reliable direction then?? Please.

http://weeklyworldnews.com/

Mental Mickey · 10-10-2010 6:52pm

rarnes1 wrote: »

http://weeklyworldnews.com/

Don't be stupid. I asked a genuine question.

Daemonic · 10-10-2010 7:07pm

The only 'reliable' source is the club website. After that the BBC website and Guardian website tend to be less sensational than most. SSN is the TV equivalent of the Daily Star or The Sun.

Mental Mickey · 10-10-2010 7:21pm

Daemonic wrote: »

The only 'reliable' source is the club website. After that the BBC website and Guardian website tend to be less sensational than most. SSN is the TV equivalent of the Daily Star or The Sun.

Cheers.

Helix · 10-10-2010 7:45pm

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Point me in a more reliable direction then?? Please.

stop fretting about things you can do nothing about. when something is official its official, until then its idle speculation used to increase ratings or boost sales

ssn is an entertainment channel there to make money on ad sales, remember that

Jayob10 · 10-10-2010 7:58pm

I think the so called rebels are controlling the media output at their end at this stage.
Putting it out there that the club will roll into administration and a 9 point penalty is probably a ploy before the court case. Build up evidence there dealings are in the best interests of not only RBS but the club also.

stevoslice · 10-10-2010 7:58pm

just to clarify it will be KOP Holdings PLC that will be put into administration, the company that 'owns' LFC. it was set up to buy the club by hicks and gillett and LFC is its only asset. no one will know what will happen unless the block is upheld.

the difference with the west ham case is that the parent company had many different assets which meant the administration could not be attributed directly to west ham utd fc.

to finish, hicks and gillett's bid to block the sale will be thrown out as it cannot be seen to be a good business move by RBS for the club to end up in administration the week after a takeover bid is denied.

Daemonic · 10-10-2010 8:39pm

But the court hearing is not to decide if it makes business sense to put LFC into administration, it's to decide if the board members were acting legally when they accepted the bid or if Hicks did have the right to change the board composition without Broughton approving it. What makes sense for Liverpool FC doesn't come into it.
However the fact Broughton et al are the ones who requested a ruling would indicate they are confident.

niallo27 · 10-10-2010 8:52pm

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Then where the **** are Sky Sports News getting their information from?

Its probably from the same source that told them ryan babble was in a helicopter on his way to spurs last august

Coup under way at Liverpool FC

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