Why Ireland's so called 'Tourist Industry' is a joke

Holocene

djpbarry wrote: »

Where is the money for all these local history courses going to come from?

I'm talking about investment in our heritage industry here, not education for education's sake. You might not think it's a sound investment, and I'm sure many would agree with you, which is fair enough.

Because most of them probably don't want to work in the catering industry, I imagine?

I didn't say they should work there, I said they should be utilized there. I'm not suggesting that our history graduates should be waiting tables just so they can make occasional interesting smalltalk with diners. My broader point is that tourism already is history and heritage, but that our education system doesn't recognize this as a reality, and that this has a knock-on effect in the industry itself.

Why don't we leave the history to the historians and the catering to the caterers?

Like I said, tourism and history are already intertwined whether we like it or not. This is reflected in the tourists we attract, but not always in the hotels and services we provide.

Judgement Day

Just came across this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056695482 in AH and it says it all - from the horses mouth - should be compulsory reading for Failte Ireland, Varadkar etc.

PS I'm not trying to resurrect this thread with a one-off post and intend to post again shortly with my latest catalogue of complaints.

BFDCH.

Judgement Day wrote: »

Just came across this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056695482 in AH and it says it all - from the horses mouth - should be compulsory reading for Failte Ireland, Varadkar etc.

PS I'm not trying to resurrect this thread with a one-off post and intend to post again shortly with my latest catalogue of complaints.

loada dicks trying to be funny in that thread, there's very little of use in there.
There were a few posts about historical sites which slated the level of information available at them. It's probably worth noting that people want to have informaton freely available to them. If they can't pay for a tour guide perhaps they could install info points like they have in Alambra in Granda- where you get the info directly on to your mobile.. or maybe need to be able to visualise what these sites were like when in use so they need to be developed properly with educated staff and replica buildings.

Judgement Day

BFDCH. wrote: »

loada dicks trying to be funny in that thread, there's very little of use in there.
There were a few posts about historical sites which slated the level of information available at them. It's probably worth noting that people want to have informaton freely available to them. If they can't pay for a tour guide perhaps they could install info points like they have in Alambra in Granda- where you get the info directly on to your mobile.. or maybe need to be able to visualise what these sites were like when in use so they need to be developed properly with educated staff and replica buildings.

While being AH there are plenty of dicks posting there, there are plenty of valid points raised too such as this one about the Cliffs of Moher http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79626142&postcount=37 - did you read the whole thread? How about this reference to two 'heritage' railway sites: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79633803&postcount=108

Anyway, after a weekend which saw hundreds of thousands turn out to view the "Tall Ships" where is Ireland's maritime heritage? A short distance from where the masses gathered to watch the "Tall Ships" lie two historic ships mouldering away in the Grand Canal Dock http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnnyghia1302/4975028874/ - whatever about the historic value of the Naom Éanna - and I think it is - the story of the former RNLI lifeboat "Mary Stanford" is an even bigger disgrace,

The "Mary Stanford" http://mii.mariner.ie/history/Ballycotton/Mary%20Stanford.html was the only RNLI boat ever to be awarded a Gold Medal (the boat itself as opposed to the crew) for its part in the rescue of the crew of the Daunt lightship in 1936. So famous was the rescue that there was even a stamp produced to commemorate the event - yet she's now effectively dumped.



The "Kittiwake" Lightship - one of very few left intact - was moored on the North Wall but has now disappeared since Harry Crosbie's attempt to turn it into a floating restaurant was turned down.


All of these vessels should be taken into a state-run National Maritime Museum and turned into a massive tourist attraction - the interest in maritime things is there as last weekend bore testament - but it won't happen in this useless State where lip service is paid to everything and nothing is ever done. The so-called Tourist Industry is a bad joke.

djpbarry

Judgement Day wrote: »

All of these vessels should be taken into a state-run National Maritime Museum...

Ok, but who's going to pay for it?

Judgement Day

djpbarry wrote: »

Ok, but who's going to pay for it?

I'm afraid that's the wrong attitude - a decision should be made to do it and the money will be found.

The same money that was squandered on a plethora of worthless interpretative centres should have been used for such things but I'm not sure if that source of EU funding still exists. The National Lottery (a subject for another thread) was supposed to be used for these type of projects and could still be instead of giving every mickey mouse GAA club in the country €500 - and a photo/media opportunity for the local TD.

It's still not too late but the famous 'outside-the-box' thinking is required - so it won't happen. Failte Ireland/Tourism Ireland/the Heritage Council all need to be involved and instructed by the relevant Minister - Varadkar - so it won't happen.

The article below from CIE's staff magazine "Cuisle" from May 1948 - reproduced in my "Transport Preservation in Ireland" (2005) guide - says all that needs to be said. Sixty four years later and nothing much has changed and an awful lot of what should have been saved is long gone.

---

“A Transport Museum?”
by Gerard St.John
(First published in the May 1948 edition of Cuisle na Tíre – CIE’s staff magazine)

The article which appeared in the March 1948 issue of Cuisle, about the antique loco No.36, illustrated yet again the desirability of establishing a Transport Museum. Far too many links with the romantic past have been lost already, and I sincerely hope that steps will be taken before some foreign society jumps at the offer to give this one away free!
Admittedly, there is no room at the National Museum, but surely it should be possible to rig up a comparatively inexpensive structure in say, the Phoenix Park. Once installed, the vehicles would require little care and the crudest of accommodation would be sufficient until we have enough pride to finance an adequate building.
The ever dwindling number of relics available still warrants the effort and I am confident that apart from those, of which I know, there are many others rusting in farmyards or cob-webbed sheds.
Only a few weeks ago I heard that a garden shelter in Lancashire was discovered to be the prison van attacked by a party of Fenians in Manchester in 1867. The lock and door carry marks of the shot which accidentally killed the police sergeant and led to the unjust hanging of Allen, Larkin and O’Brien. A former Lord Mayor of Manchester has offered to have the van sent to Ireland.

It should be possible with existing material to arrange a display dating from pre-historic times, starting with primitive dug-out canoes found in the bogs throughout the country. From descriptions in ancient manuscripts the first clumsy carts could be imitated and then the magnificent chariots of the tribal kings. Dummy horses could be fitted with the trappings of each period.
Of Sedan Chairs we have at least one specimen in Kildare Street. The Dublin coach-makers achieved a world-wide renown for their workmanship and artistic skill. An unbelievably graceful specimen of their craft is one of the proudest possessions of the British Royal Family and was used at a recent wedding. There must be others which could be preserved in our own country. The same skill was applied to the early “horseless carriages” or motor cars and, judging from Old Crock Rallies, there are quite a few lurking in private garages.
Perhaps it might still be possible to acquire a horse tram and the more interesting of the steam and electric types. CIE may have a host of historic treasures scattered in various disused sheds and sidings! I would dearly love to see one of the twin-boilered engines constructed for the Listowel-Ballybunion Railway.

Losses through the culpable neglect of former years could be remedied by the construction of small models, following the praiseworthy example of the British Museum. I can think of no group in the world more competent for this work than the Dublin Society of Model & Experimental Engineers, now in its forty-sixth year. Indeed, we could also feature examples of the inventions made by men of Irish parentage, e.g., the submarine and the steam-boat.
At Inchicore they may be some remnants of the armoured train used by the British against the Volunteers in Wexford in 1916. It comprised three shell trucks and an engine protected with iron plates painted a slate grey colour.
During the War of Independence the “Green Lizzie” became famous as a will-o-the-wisp weapon of the Dublin Battalion. Apparently an ordinary Ford van, its interior was lined with captured British body armour. Cruising innocently through the city streets it would arrive at the point chosen for an ambush, the doors swinging open to reveal a party of men armed with a Thompson gun and automatics.

There is much of historic interest which might yet be rescued from irretrievable loss and at the very least a store shed, however simple, should be constructed. The collection would be of incalculable value, sentimental and educational to coming generations, not to mention our own!

I have but skimmed the subject – so anxious am I to register an appeal for poor old weather-beaten No.36. Every possible relic must be preserved in our own country. National honour demands it. Posterity will be justifiably bitter if we fail in our duty.

djpbarry

Judgement Day wrote: »

I'm afraid that's the wrong attitude - a decision should be made to do it and the money will be found.

I see. So just because you've decided that a maritime museum is a good idea (and I'm not necessarily suggesting that it is not), the money to fund it should be pulled from somewhere?

Ok, so suppose that I think a science museum is a good idea - we'll be needing money for that too.

The Natural History Museum is in serious need of an overhaul - more money please.

Sure, the money could probably be drawn from somewhere, but the question is whether the general public feels that their local GAA club should cut back in order to fund a maritime museum. My thinking is that they don't.

Judgement Day

It's not just because I think it would be a good idea that it should be done but it needs to be done for numerous reasons - tourism (jobs), heritage etc.etc. The GAA thing was just a throwaway but the reality is, as I have politely explained to numerous half-witted politicians (including our illustrious President), civil servants etc. down the years - if some sporting organisations have to wait a bit longer for funding what of it, these heritage items won't survive indefinitely!

The question is does Ireland want a tourist industry or doesn't it? We have crap weather, increasingly ****ed up scenery, and our visitor attractions 'product' is miles behind our nearest neighbours.

djpbarry

Judgement Day wrote: »

It's not just because I think it would be a good idea that it should be done but it needs to be done for numerous reasons - tourism (jobs), heritage etc.etc. The GAA thing was just a throwaway but the reality is...

...that people are generally more concerned with the GAA. Ireland doesn't have a maritime museum because people are not all that bothered about a maritime museum. Maybe that's because the percentage of people in Ireland concerned with heritage matters is smaller than in neighbouring countries. Or maybe it isn't, but a certain critical mass is necessary in order to take these ideas to fruition and Ireland's population is just too small to support a significant heritage movement.

One way or another, if Irish people really cared about Ireland's maritime heritage (for example), Ireland would probably have a maritime museum.

Solair

Having spent quite a bit of time on the continent, particularly in Belgium and France I would have to say that Irish customer service is actually a hell of a lot better and generally much friendlier.

I don't deny that you can get the occasional example of grumpy ignorance, but in general you get smiling people and a lot of attention.

In France there are a few pleasantries (almost scripted) and once it goes beyond that they just ignore you or tend to be really snarly if you ask for sizes, help etc.

Irish customer service may not be quite as good as the US & Canada, but in general it's better than England and the continent in my experience anyway.

I also find that Irish food service and quality is drastically better than what I've experienced in most of Northern Europe.
The typical café in France would depress you and they see nothing wrong with a microwaved, greasy croque monsieur, service with a snarl and insane prices.

I'm not trying to 'dis' France, it has great service at the upper end of the price range and certain regions (especially the West) are really improving rapidly, but I think some people on here are being a little over-critical of Ireland's customer service culture without really basing it on much experience of it or comparisons with elsewhere.

I don't know how many times in Belgium you could be waiting a good 20 minutes to get the bill too!

For me, the major problems with the Irish tourism industry tends to be that aspects of it are stuck in a bit of a time-warp.

We need more access to things like cycling holidays (greenways across the countryside that you can cycle safely on). More outdoor activities and much much more access to all the ruins and ancient sites. A lot of them aren't even mapped, never mind sign posted.

I think we are still largely (especially in more stereotypically touristy spots) catering to for an American "blue rinse brigade" who used to come over wearing pink striped shorts back in the 1950s/60s.

We need to funky-up the brand and move tourism into the same kind of space that we've moved food!

Also, we need a hell of a lot more food-tourism! Ireland has wonderful artisan foods that can hold their own against anything in Europe. I would love to go on a really nice gourmet vacation visiting cheese producers or whatever.

You can do that in France, and I don't see why it wouldn't work if it were well promoted in Ireland.

BFDCH.

djpbarry wrote: »

I see. So just because you've decided that a maritime museum is a good idea (and I'm not necessarily suggesting that it is not), the money to fund it should be pulled from somewhere?

Ok, so suppose that I think a science museum is a good idea - we'll be needing money for that too.

The Natural History Museum is in serious need of an overhaul - more money please.

Sure, the money could probably be drawn from somewhere, but the question is whether the general public feels that their local GAA club should cut back in order to fund a maritime museum. My thinking is that they don't.

get the lads/ladies on the social welfare working for their money each week, like they did in Denmark in the 80's; that'll free up some money/reduce the labour costs for bulding/maintaining these museums.

A massive project like this http://www.independent.ie/farming/news-features/getting-walkways-on-track-is-a-route-to-rural-riches-2836821.html could be organised. We could reduce social welfare payments for those that don't want to work and increase it for those that do. the country would be getting something for it's money then and the people would have work.

Judgement Day

djpbarry wrote: »

...that people are generally more concerned with the GAA. Ireland doesn't have a maritime museum because people are not all that bothered about a maritime museum. Maybe that's because the percentage of people in Ireland concerned with heritage matters is smaller than in neighbouring countries. Or maybe it isn't, but a certain critical mass is necessary in order to take these ideas to fruition and Ireland's population is just too small to support a significant heritage movement.

One way or another, if Irish people really cared about Ireland's maritime heritage (for example), Ireland would probably have a maritime museum.

Ireland doesn't have a National Maritime Museum or a National Transport Museum because of officialdom not because of a lack of interest. Hundreds of thousands of man hours have been committed to different preservation projects around the country in recent decades with most ending in failure due to official neglect. We have too many bodies involved in Tourism, Heritage etc. and all just continue in their jobs while waiting for their golden handshakes. Too many vested interests guarding their own bailiwicks such as Pat 'we don't need a transport museum' Wallace over at the National Museum.

djpbarry

Judgement Day wrote: »

Ireland doesn't have a National Maritime Museum or a National Transport Museum because of officialdom not because of a lack of interest.

I find that very hard to believe. This is Ireland we’re talking about after all – if a museum is going to buy a TD a large number of votes, they’ll make damn sure that museum is built.

Judgement Day

djpbarry wrote: »

I find that very hard to believe. This is Ireland we’re talking about after all – if a museum is going to buy a TD a large number of votes, they’ll make damn sure that museum is built.

That's not my personal experience from dealing with Michael Lowry, Michael D and John Gormley to name but a few.

djpbarry

Judgement Day wrote: »

That's not my personal experience from dealing with Michael Lowry...

Well you'd be the first. Lowry makes absolutely no secret of the fact that he will negotiate planning "favours" for his constituents in order to secure votes.

Unshelved

Ireland doesn't have a National Maritime Museum or a National Transport Museum because of officialdom not because of a lack of interest.

Isn't there a Maritime Museum in Dun Laoghaire?

Solair

There could be a very big one on Haulbowline in Cork. That would actually make sense.

i.e. big naval base, a Maritime College all set in the middle of our largest natural harbour.

It's also the site (complete with all the old buildings) of one of what was one of the largest British naval bases in these islands, again with huge history attached and it has all the links to things like the Titanic and Lucitania and there was until quite recently major boatyards in that area too and Cork City and Harbour was basically built on maritime trade over the centuries.

Judgement Day

Unshelved wrote: »

Isn't there a Maritime Museum in Dun Laoghaire?

I take it you have been then? The 'so-called' National Maritime Museum is run by volunteers, is located in an old church, has only reopened after being closed for a number of years and has precious little in it to enthrall the visitor. That is no reflection on the National Maritime Institute or its volunteers but is where we are at in Maritime preservation. http://www.mariner.ie/museum/exhibits

We have a 'so-called' National Transport Museum too - have you been?



We also have a National Heritage Council and an Environmental Protection Agency so that's every thing taken care of. :rolleyes:

Judgement Day

More evidence of the well thought out policy on developing Ireland's tourist industry on Liveline today. Apparently 28 tour guides are to be let go by the ESB at their little known "Georgian House Museum" at 29 Fitzwilliam Street and the museum is to be relaunched in June. The new museum will be a very different visitor experience with, apparently, story boards and audio devices replacing the popular guides. The opening season is to be severely cut back as well. Good old ESB, but as a caller to Liveline stated they are under pressure to make savings - this by a company that made €469 million profit in 2011 and an estimated €500 million in 2012! You couldn't make the stuff up. I hear that serious trouble is also looming up at the Collins Barracks - time for Ministers such as Jimmy Deenihan and Leo Varadkar to **** or get off the pot. :mad:

Joe 90

Judgement Day wrote: »

More evidence of the well thought out policy on developing Ireland's tourist industry on Liveline today. Apparently 28 tour guides are to be let go by the ESB at their little known "Georgian House Museum" at 29 Fitzwilliam Street and the museum is to be relaunched in June. The new museum will be a very different visitor experience with, apparently, story boards and audio devices replacing the popular guides. The opening season is to be severely cut back as well. Good old ESB, but as a caller to Liveline stated they are under pressure to make savings - this by a company that made €469 million profit in 2011 and an estimated €500 million in 2012! You couldn't make the stuff up. I hear that serious trouble is also looming up at the Collins Barracks - time for Ministers such as Jimmy Deenihan and Leo Varadkar to **** or get off the pot. :mad:

That seems an awful lot of tour guides.

Judgement Day

Joe 90 wrote: »

That seems an awful lot of tour guides.

They weren't all full-time - even if they were it wouldn't make much of a dent in €500 million.

Joe 90

Judgement Day wrote: »

They weren't all full-time - even if they were it wouldn't make much of a dent in €500 million.

I meant that it seemed a lot of guides for one house.

Edit to add: I wonder is 'guide' the term used to describe all or a high proportion of employees at the museum? It would seem possible and could account for the seemingly high number.

I didn't know the place existed. Sounds interesting, must have a look the next time I'm in Dublin.

Duggys Housemate

Lads nobody is coming to Ireland for Transport or Maritime museums. I doubt if many people even go to the UK for that, but they have that history. PArticularly around Bristol.

And the cliffs of Moher visitor centre looks ok to me.

Judgement Day

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Lads nobody is coming to Ireland for Transport or Maritime museums. I doubt if many people even go to the UK for that, but they have that history. PArticularly around Bristol.

And the cliffs of Moher visitor centre looks ok to me.

No, that's right because we haven't any. You are seriously deluded if you don't realise the serious draw that heritage tourism is in the UK and I can't be bothered to argue the toss with you. We all know that tourists only come to Ireland to meet the Irish people. :rolleyes:

Duggys Housemate

Judgement Day wrote: »

No, that's right because we haven't any. You are seriously deluded if you don't realise the serious draw that heritage tourism is in the UK and I can't be bothered to argue the toss with you. We all know that tourists only come to Ireland to meet the Irish people. :rolleyes:

Don't call me deluded again, or I will report you. Don't create straw man arguments or I will report you. ( Did I say people come to Ireland to only meet Irish people?).

Every country has different heritage. I am fully aware of Britain's heritage in rail and maritime history. I mentioned Bristol for a reason, where I have been on the SS Great Britain ( for rail geeks there are other museums). If you are competing against Islam kingdom Brunel on this stuff, you are going to lose.

So we have heritage sites elsewhere, where we have stronger heritage.

djpbarry

Judgement Day wrote: »

Apparently 28 tour guides are to be let go by the ESB at their little known "Georgian House Museum" at 29 Fitzwilliam Street and the museum is to be relaunched in June.

You never thought to stop and question what the hell a tiny museum needs with TWENTY-EIGHT tour guides?

PRAF

Judgement Day wrote: »

There is so much wrong with Ireland's so called tourism 'product' that it's difficult to know where to start

It's great that people are passionate enough about something to take the time to point out the failings and suggest areas for improvement. I agree 100% that there are lots of areas for improvement.

Sometimes though, I think we can be guilty of focussing only on the negative. IMO there are lots of world class attractions in Ireland that any tourist would love. Some of my personal favourites are (in no particular order):
- The Guinness Storehouse
- Cliffs of Moher
- Dolphin Wathing in Kilrush, Co Clare
- Slieve League Cliffs
- Kilmainham Gaol
- Glendalough
- Croke Park (for a big game!)
- TCD (including the Book of Kells)
- The Ring of Kerry
- Dingle
- Aran Islands
- West Cork
- Bru na Boinne
- The Burren (inlcuding Ailwee Caves)
- Eagles Flying centre in Sligo
- Black Taxi Tours in Belfast
- Giants Causeway & the Causeway Coastal Drive
- Boating on the Shannon
- Killary Fjord & Connemara

As well as all of that we have great walks / hikes, great golf courses, lots of shopping, some of the best bars / nightlife in Europe, top class restaurants, great theatres, etc. Most of all we have the Irish people and the legendary 'craic'.

It's not all doom and gloom

Judgement Day

djpbarry wrote: »

You never thought to stop and question what the hell a tiny museum needs with TWENTY-EIGHT tour guides?

It wasn't clear from the Liveline programme the exact status of the tour guides and given that it was an ESB Head Office operation I very much doubt that it was overstaffed.

old hippy

djpbarry wrote: »

You never thought to stop and question what the hell a tiny museum needs with TWENTY-EIGHT tour guides?

Those Georgian places are practically Tardis like...

Judgement Day

PRAF wrote: »

It's great that people are passionate enough about something to take the time to point out the failings and suggest areas for improvement. I agree 100% that there are lots of areas for improvement.

Sometimes though, I think we can be guilty of focussing only on the negative. IMO there are lots of world class attractions in Ireland that any tourist would love. Some of my personal favourites are (in no particular order):
- The Guinness Storehouse
- Cliffs of Moher
- Dolphin Wathing in Kilrush, Co Clare
- Slieve League Cliffs
- Kilmainham Gaol
- Glendalough
- Croke Park (for a big game!)
- TCD (including the Book of Kells)
- The Ring of Kerry
- Dingle
- Aran Islands
- West Cork
- Bru na Boinne
- The Burren (inlcuding Ailwee Caves)
- Eagles Flying centre in Sligo
- Black Taxi Tours in Belfast
- Giants Causeway & the Causeway Coastal Drive
- Boating on the Shannon
- Killary Fjord & Connemara

As well as all of that we have great walks / hikes, great golf courses, lots of shopping, some of the best bars / nightlife in Europe, top class restaurants, great theatres, etc. Most of all we have the Irish people and the legendary 'craic'.

It's not all doom and gloom

The sound of straws being clutched at? If I was to draw up such a general list of UK 'attractions' I would be here for weeks. The simple fact is that even when there was money it was squandered on interpretative centres and similar rubbish rather than on serious projects like the National Transport Museum etc.etc....

djpbarry

Judgement Day wrote: »

It wasn't clear from the Liveline programme the exact status of the tour guides…

Have you been to the museum in question? There is absolutely no way there is work there for 28 people, whatever their status.

Judgement Day wrote: »

The sound of straws being clutched at? If I was to draw up such a general list of UK 'attractions' I would be here for weeks.

Maybe, but, when you’re done, I’m sure I could find plenty of “attractions” on your list that are either extortionately expensive, ****e, or both.

I really can’t stand this “we can’t do anything right in Ireland – look how amazing the UK is” attitude.

Judgement Day

djpbarry wrote: »

Have you been to the museum in question? There is absolutely no way there is work there for 28 people, whatever their status.
Maybe, but, when you’re done, I’m sure I could find plenty of “attractions” on your list that are either extortionately expensive, ****e, or both.

I really can’t stand this “we can’t do anything right in Ireland – look how amazing the UK is” attitude.

And I can't stand your the attitude that everything's alright and we can just swan along like there's no tomorrow - be it the environment/heritage or tourism. Your attitude is, don't like the message so try and undermine the messenger.

I have not tried to say that there are 28 full-time jobs in the museum and I'm sure almost all were part-timers. Getting rid of the guides and closing the museum for refurbishment in the middle of the tourist season strikes me as ridiculous but you probably know better.

clairefontaine

One thing that could improve tourism is a better transport system. It is very hard and expensive to get around Ireland without a car. The public bus and rail system is expensive, inconvenient and often too limited for mobility, especially for people travelling with families.

Cars are expensive to rent and petrol is astronomical, plus with a strong Euro against the dollar this makes it even harder.

Outside of Dublin is particularly bad. For example, the transatlantics that come into Shannon often land in at 4:30 am or 5 am before the buses have began service. Secondly, this leaves you with no choice but to drive, so you have a bunch of American tourists driving jetlagged and on the opposite side of the road.

Ultimately the costs of petrol, car rentals, and insurance makes it far more prohibitive for tourists to have access to these places.

PRAF

Judgement Day wrote: »

The sound of straws being clutched at? If I was to draw up such a general list of UK 'attractions' I would be here for weeks. The simple fact is that even when there was money it was squandered on interpretative centres and similar rubbish rather than on serious projects like the National Transport Museum etc.etc....

Of course the UK has lots of great attractions. I never said it didn't, I'm just trying to point out that we have lots to be proud of from a tourism point of view here in Ireland. We have a great product IMO.

Is there room for improvement? F*** yeah there is. But I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist about some of the issues mentioned in here.

Judgement Day

I'm afraid I have to disagree, the Irish tourism product is very damaged in all sorts of ways. To name but a few - general filth throughout the country (graffiti, chewing gum, dog poo etc.); a high level of scumbaggery in our Capital (by far our biggest tourist destination); one-off housing blighting scenic areas - soon to be joined by wind farms; zombie hotels that are more like industrial units than hotels and usually sited on motorway roundabouts; closed down attractions - Lissadell, Fry Model Railway Museum, Tralee/Blennerville Rly; a plethora of places that wouldn't be missed if they closed down - e.g the Lismore Experience and the Corlea Trackway. Restored (?) canals with no boats to hire and the Dublin end of which are virtual no-go areas; State owned properties that are let fall down rather than be opened up to the public - Kilmacurragh Hse near Rathdrum, Johnstown Castle in Wexford which is still not open despite assurances from Bertie Ahern!! I could continue but I'm just being negative and everything is great in the UK and I'm just a knocker....I should don the green jersey or perhaps a green blindfold would be better.

PRAF

Judgement Day wrote: »

I'm afraid I have to disagree, the Irish tourism product is very damaged in all sorts of ways. To name but a few - general filth throughout the country (graffiti, chewing gum, dog poo etc.); a high level of scumbaggery in our Capital (by far our biggest tourist destination); one-off housing blighting scenic areas - soon to be joined by wind farms; zombie hotels that are more like industrial units than hotels and usually sited on motorway roundabouts; closed down attractions - Lissadell, Fry Model Railway Museum, Tralee/Blennerville Rly; a plethora of places that wouldn't be missed if they closed down - e.g the Lismore Experience and the Corlea Trackway. Restored (?) canals with no boats to hire and the Dublin end of which are virtual no-go areas; State owned properties that are let fall down rather than be opened up to the public - Kilmacurragh Hse near Rathdrum, Johnstown Castle in Wexford which is still not open despite assurances from Bertie Ahern!! I could continue but I'm just being negative and everything is great in the UK and I'm just a knocker....I should don the green jersey or perhaps a green blindfold would be better.

So where is good in your opinion?

maninasia

Listing the Cliffs of Moher was a bit of a mistake on that list. What a mess they made of that and they charge you big bucks just to see cliffs and park your car, stuck an interpretative centre for CLIFFS (to justify charging money of course) in and now the cliffs are actually hard to see because they put flagstones all around the edge.

Sure there are lots of nice places to visit in Ireland, but like other posters said already it's a bit hard to get around and not cheap at all. The train system is too expensive and doesn't link well with urban transport. The people (excepting the large amounts of drug addicts and scumbaggery) and bars and food are great, but just needs more work all round and less focus on extracting money.

djpbarry

Judgement Day wrote: »

And I can't stand your the attitude that everything's alright and we can just swan along like there's no tomorrow...

Where did I say that everything’s fine and there’s no room for improvement?

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have not tried to say that there are 28 full-time jobs in the museum and I'm sure almost all were part-timers.

The fact is, you don’t know one way or another, but for some reason you’re holding this up as an example of what is, in your opinion, Ireland’s shoddy tourism product.

Judgement Day wrote: »

Restored (?) canals with no boats to hire and the Dublin end of which are virtual no-go areas;

You see, statements like this really highlight the fact that you’re just having a bit of a rant. This is your idea of a “no go” area, is it?

djpbarry

clairefontaine wrote: »

The public bus and rail system is expensive...

Is it? Relative to where? Last time I was in Ireland I paid less than €40 for a return rail ticket from Dublin to Cork – that doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.

clairefontaine wrote: »

Cars are expensive to rent...

Again, relative to where? The missus and I rented a small car in Ireland for a base price of less than €20 per day towards the end of last year – that could hardly be considered expensive.

maninasia

maninasia wrote: »

The people (excepting the large amounts of drug addicts and scumbaggery) and bars and food are great, but just needs more work all round and less focus on extracting money.

We need more focus on extracting money, not less! How long do you reckon it takes to even cover the costs of one of these visitor centers after wages and day-to-day expenses have been paid? My guess would be that the initial investment is *never* recovered. It would be nice if these projects were actually looked at in a "where can we make the most money" kind of way as opposed to anything else.

It's called 'industry', not 'charity'.

Judgement Day

djpbarry wrote: »

Where did I say that everything’s fine and there’s no room for improvement?
The fact is, you don’t know one way or another, but for some reason you’re holding this up as an example of what is, in your opinion, Ireland’s shoddy tourism product.
You see, statements like this really highlight the fact that you’re just having a bit of a rant. This is your idea of a “no go” area, is it?

Utopia indeed and I could, I'm sure, find a picture of swans at Liffey Junction but one is as likely to be stoned or worse by the hoodie wearing scumbags in the area. It's difficult to argue with someone who is so dismissive of anyone with a contrary point of view but I'm sure that you're right and I'm just having a rant.

Judgement Day

PRAF wrote: »

So where is good in your opinion?

Some of your personal favourites and my thoughts:

- The Guinness Storehouse ...not my scene..Kehoe's, South Anne Street does much better Guinness in superior surroundings!
- Cliffs of Moher - nice but spoilt by the Int.Centre, carpark etc.
- Dolphin Watching in Kilrush, Co Clare
- Slieve League Cliffs...not been.
- Kilmainham Gaol...not been.
- Glendalough ....agree 100%
- Croke Park (for a big game!) - not in a fit.
- TCD (including the Book of Kells) - yawn but nice for the Yanks to see Kelly's book.
- The Ring of Kerry - haven't been recently but used to be nice.
- Dingle ..okay but over developed.
- Aran Islands...never been.
- West Cork....agree 100%
- Bru na Boinne???
- The Burren (inlcuding Ailwee Caves)...100%
- Eagles Flying centre in Sligo...not been.
- Black Taxi Tours in Belfast....not in a fit.
- Giants Causeway & the Causeway Coastal Drive...on my list.
- Boating on the Shannon ...100%
- Killary Fjord & Connemara..100%
.
As well as all of that we have great walks / hikes, great golf courses, lots of shopping, some of the best bars / nightlife in Europe, top class restaurants, great theatres, etc. Most of all we have the Irish people and the legendary 'craic'.

---

The 'craic' is all a load of bollox and can be had anywhere not just Ireland - it depends on the company. JD

What I would rate:

- Dublin Zoo
- Coastal footpath from Wicklow to Greystones.
- Cape Clear for feathered birds and 'craic'.
- Mt.Usher Gardens.
- Westport House.
- Strokestown House.
- Morrisey's Pub in Abbeyleix.
- French's Pub (Gorey); Redmond's Pub (Scarawalsh), Kehoe's (South Anne Street)..
- National Gallery.
- The Burren, Connemara, West Cork, West Kerry
- Dalkey Island, Saltee Islands
- Bull Island, Dublin
- Rail trip from Connolly to Rosslare

I'm sure that there's more but I'd be struggling to put together a seriously large list.

djpbarry

Judgement Day wrote: »

Utopia indeed and I could, I'm sure, find a picture of swans at Liffey Junction but one is as likely to be stoned or worse by the hoodie wearing scumbags in the area.

Again, this is just pointless - Ireland has a rubbish tourism product because there are some dodgy areas in Dublin? As opposed to every other city in the world?

You said the Dublin end of the canals are no-go areas. I'm guessing what you meant to say was some areas of Dublin, where canals happen to pass through, are "no go" areas? Because the stretch of the Grand Canal in South Dublin City is one of most scenic parts of the city.

PRAF

Judgement Day wrote: »

Some of your personal favourites and my thoughts:

- The Guinness Storehouse ...not my scene..Kehoe's, South Anne Street does much better Guinness in superior surroundings!
- Cliffs of Moher - nice but spoilt by the Int.Centre, carpark etc.
- Dolphin Watching in Kilrush, Co Clare
- Slieve League Cliffs...not been.
- Kilmainham Gaol...not been.
- Glendalough ....agree 100%
- Croke Park (for a big game!) - not in a fit.
- TCD (including the Book of Kells) - yawn but nice for the Yanks to see Kelly's book.
- The Ring of Kerry - haven't been recently but used to be nice.
- Dingle ..okay but over developed.
- Aran Islands...never been.
- West Cork....agree 100%
- Bru na Boinne???
- The Burren (inlcuding Ailwee Caves)...100%
- Eagles Flying centre in Sligo...not been.
- Black Taxi Tours in Belfast....not in a fit.
- Giants Causeway & the Causeway Coastal Drive...on my list.
- Boating on the Shannon ...100%
- Killary Fjord & Connemara..100%
.
As well as all of that we have great walks / hikes, great golf courses, lots of shopping, some of the best bars / nightlife in Europe, top class restaurants, great theatres, etc. Most of all we have the Irish people and the legendary 'craic'.

---

The 'craic' is all a load of bollox and can be had anywhere not just Ireland - it depends on the company. JD

What I would rate:

- Dublin Zoo
- Coastal footpath from Wicklow to Greystones.
- Cape Clear for feathered birds and 'craic'.
- Mt.Usher Gardens.
- Westport House.
- Strokestown House.
- Morrisey's Pub in Abbeyleix.
- French's Pub (Gorey); Redmond's Pub (Scarawalsh), Kehoe's (South Anne Street)..
- National Gallery.
- The Burren, Connemara, West Cork, West Kerry
- Dalkey Island, Saltee Islands
- Bull Island, Dublin
- Rail trip from Connolly to Rosslare

I'm sure that there's more but I'd be struggling to put together a seriously large list.

If you don't like the over development of the Cliffs of Moher then get your a$$ over to slieve league in Donegal. One of the most jaw droppingly beutiful places in Ireland IMHO. Croaghaun in Achill is similar. Both are free.

If you are into your wildlife then I'd highly recommend doing some dolphin watching in Co Clare / Shannon estuary or else doing some whale watching down in West Cork. Spectacular. Much more authentic than a day drip to the zoo (although I also love that as well).

If you like Glendalough then you'll also like Glenveagh National Park in Donegal, Kylemore Abbey, the Nephin range wilderness area, etc. There are top class hikes all over Wicklow, Sheeps Head in Cork, etc.

The Aran Islands are great. I'd recommend a visit to Dun Aengus. You can do this all as part of a tour of the island with one of the locals. The wife and I get it when we were in Galway. Boat to the island, jump straight into a jeep / van, and get a personalised tour of the island. Brilliant. I only wish I stayed overnight.

Bru na Boinne is the posh name for Newgrange. Apologies for that!

You've mentioned some great places yourself (a lot of which are on my "to-do" list). It was only after I travelled for a bit in the USA, New Zealand, Australia, etc. that I had a real interest in exploring Ireland. I bought myself a Lonely Planet Ireland book and actively went looking for some of the best sights in Ireland. I think we've been blessed with a great little country with some fantastic sights, rich heritage, great culture, etc.

PRAF

djpbarry wrote: »

Again, this is just pointless - Ireland has a rubbish tourism product because there are some dodgy areas in Dublin? As opposed to every other city in the world?

You said the Dublin end of the canals are no-go areas. I'm guessing what you meant to say was some areas of Dublin, where canals happen to pass through, are "no go" areas? Because the stretch of the Grand Canal in South Dublin City is one of most scenic parts of the city.

All cities have their dodgy areas. It is impossible to have a big city without a few dodgy bits IMO. Some obvious ones for me are:
- San Francisco: The Tenderloin
- Vancouver: east of Hastings street
- Boston: Dorchester, Roxbury, etc.
- Paris: Gard nu Nord, Montmarte and surrounds, etc.
- New York: a number of places in Brooklyn and the Bronx

There are parts of Berlin, Amsterdam, London, Malaga, Barcelona and almost every city I've ever visited that I wouldn't recommend for tourists.

Look at the news and you hear of tourists being killed, raped, etc. in places like India, South Africa, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, China, etc.

By most accounts, Dublin and Ireland are pretty safe places for tourists. However, if you spend your time reading the Herald or listening to Joe Duffy you could be mistaken in thinking that we live in some kind of crime infested cesspool of violence with marauding crime gangs terrorising people up and down the country. The reality is far more boring I'm afraid!

Judgement Day

djpbarry wrote: »

Again, this is just pointless - Ireland has a rubbish tourism product because there are some dodgy areas in Dublin? As opposed to every other city in the world?

You said the Dublin end of the canals are no-go areas. I'm guessing what you meant to say was some areas of Dublin, where canals happen to pass through, are "no go" areas? Because the stretch of the Grand Canal in South Dublin City is one of most scenic parts of the city.

Again, you are misquoting me, I never said that Ireland had a rubbish tourism product 'because there are some dodgy areas in Dublin'.

You picked out the safest spot on the Grand Canal and infer that the Dublin end of the canal system is safe and welcoming. How about trying to hire a boat on the Royal Canal - finally reopened in 2010 (ten years behind target) and a multi-million Euro restoration programme - details here: http://www.iwai.ie/rentals/

Yes, there appears to be two companies - one with a solitary narrow boat and the other whose website is defunct. That's the sort of thing that causes me to believe that the tourist industry is a joke.

Back in the 1990s I owned a museum in Cahir, Co.Tipperary and was able to get no help - financial or otherwise from Bord Failte - and eventually had to sell-up and relocate the project. Two years (!) after we had removed every last vestige of our presence in Cahir, Bord Failte installed expensive new brown tourist signs all over the town and on the Cahir Bypass directing people to the museum. You couldn't make it up but then again I'm just having a rant. :rolleyes:

PRAF

Judgement Day wrote: »

Again, you are misquoting me, I never said that Ireland had a rubbish tourism product 'because there are some dodgy areas in Dublin'.

You picked out the safest spot on the Grand Canal and infer that the Dublin end of the canal system is safe and welcoming. How about trying to hire a boat on the Royal Canal - finally reopened in 2010 (ten years behind target) and a multi-million Euro restoration programme - details here: http://www.iwai.ie/rentals/

Yes, there appears to be two companies - one with a solitary narrow boat and the other whose website is defunct. That's the sort of thing that causes me to believe that the tourist industry is a joke.

Back in the 1990s I owned a museum in Cahir, Co.Tipperary and was able to get no help - financial or otherwise from Bord Failte - and eventually had to sell-up and relocate the project. Two years (!) after we had removed every last vestige of our presence in Cahir, Bord Failte installed expensive new brown tourist signs all over the town and on the Cahir Bypass directing people to the museum. You couldn't make it up but then again I'm just having a rant. :rolleyes:

A Tipp man, eh. I've never been to Holycross Abbey in Thurles but I hear its a popular tourist attraction. Ditto the Rock of Cashel (if its good enough for Lizzie Windsor, its good enough for me). However, for me one of the best Tipp experiences is to catch a game in the home of hurling. Semple on Munster Final day is hard to beat.

My wifes from Tipp as well so we'd regularly go for a walk around Slievanaman, Fethard, Cahir, etc. Great part of the country.

I kind of hear what you are saying though. The officials / boards / administrators involved in supporting and sustaining independent tourism operators in Ireland may very well be rubbish. Some of the things you mention are unforgiveable and it must make you want to pull your hair out at times.

A bugbear of mine is the 4 carriage DARTs at peaktimes in Dublin. It must be a shock to the system for someone from Germany to arrive in Dublin and then have to wait 20 mins for a train which is then almost impossible to board due to overcrowding.

I still think we have a lot to be proud of here in Ireland from a tourism perspective. However, it is probably in spite of the likes of Bord Failte, Dublin Tourism, and Irish Rail than because of them.

djpbarry

Judgement Day wrote: »

Yes, there appears to be two companies - one with a solitary narrow boat and the other whose website is defunct. That's the sort of thing that causes me to believe that the tourist industry is a joke.

So you’re picking out examples of attractions and/or facilities that don’t meet your own personal expectations and concluding that the industry is a joke, which isn’t exactly a balanced, objective analysis. For example, I note above that you dismiss the idea of visiting Croke Park out of hand, but being one of the largest stadia in Europe, Croke Park is a major tourist attraction.

PRAF

PRAF wrote: »

I still think we have a lot to be proud of here in Ireland from a tourism perspective. However, it is probably in spite of the likes of Bord Failte, Dublin Tourism, and Irish Rail than because of them.

Exactly.

PRAF

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Exactly.

Yes but there is a difference.

The Irish tourism industry is €5b plus a year industry, employing more than 200k people, catering to over 6m tourists. It is one of our biggest industries. We have many world class tourist attractions and hundreds of world class tourism businesses (be they hotels, golf courses, restaurants, visitor attractions, etc.)

What seems to be attracting a lot of negative comment are the public bodies. The likes of Fáilte Ireland, Dublin Tourism, Irish Rail, etc. seem to be the ones who are letting the side down. However, you also have the likes of Dublin Zoo, Kilmainham Jail, etc who are doing a superb job.

Statements like "the tourist industry is a joke" are too negative and downbeat. IMHO we have a lot to be proud of.