Moss returns to Vikes reports NFL.com

ArmCandyBaby

spiralism wrote: »

Great point, was going to make that myself. With moss there, regardless of how he was performing, the likes of aso, revis and bailey were having to respect him and cover him at all times when up against him, leaving welker on the no.2 corner, hence huge numbers from welker... dont really see where the slack will be picked up here once welker is getting shut down by the top CBs of the league... the "pick your poison" element of the pats passing game was what made them so potent and now it seems to have gone with moss

CBs are less effective against posession receivers because the plays develop much quicker and there is less time for the CB to react and catch up. There are a lot of good slot receivers in the league that'll never work outsider the numbers because they'd get dominated by even average CBs.

davyjose

ArmCandyBaby wrote: »

[*] Deep threats attracting double coverage could be over valued & TE's are the way to go. .

I think you're missing the point here -- that double coverage you speak of, frees the rest of the offense considerably. Even a deep threat receiving 0 catches in a game has likely had an impact.

Gates is a freak (as, obviously, Moss is). I think you'll find there aren't many TE's that can play to his level, so it's a different scenario. They're playing to their strengths because Gates is so good. You can't just slot any old TE in and say "play like the Chargers!". If the Bolts lost Gates, they'd limp along, just as I think NE will. Great players are much more effective than a good system.

ArmCandyBaby

Fair enough about Gates but the same is true about Welker in a way. Maybe Moss still is one of the best in the league but I really don't think he will be in a year or two and a player like Moss plays right at the strengths of the AFC East defences - Revis and Davis have shown that they can deal with him in man coverage with a little help over the top. Stick Tate in instead and there won't be much of a difference in coverage. Whereas looks at the success Hernandez has had. A 4th round rookie TE should be the last person to make a contribution beyond special teams but that just shows the strength of creating mismatches.

eagle eye

Hazys wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::P:confused::(:P:pac::cool::rolleyes:;):o:):D:rolleyes:

Here is Bill Belicheck's presser today.

He says that he never spoker to Randy on the plane, that those reports are a complete fabrication and that he never had an incident with Randy. He was quite clear and almost aggressive and annoyed when they pressed him further about it.

So you listen to all the mediots and believe what you want. I'll take the word of the head coach.

Randy has a presser later on too in case you are interested.

Edit you can see it here. http://www.patriots.com/mediacenter/index.cfm?ac

davyjose

ArmCandyBaby wrote: »

Fair enough about Gates but the same is true about Welker in a way. Maybe Moss still is one of the best in the league but I really don't think he will be in a year or two and a player like Moss plays right at the strengths of the AFC East defences - Revis and Davis have shown that they can deal with him in man coverage with a little help over the top. Stick Tate in instead and there won't be much of a difference in coverage. Whereas looks at the success Hernandez has had. A 4th round rookie TE should be the last person to make a contribution beyond special teams but that just shows the strength of creating mismatches.

Welker was always the go-to guy, even in 2007 he had more receptions than Moss. But without Moss, Welker's ability to gain yards after the catch is going to be diminished.
I don't really believe that you think Tate can be a replacement for Moss, without New england's O being greatly affected, so I'll just gloss over that.
They have a good Offense, even without Moss, just like they had in '08 when Brady was out, but they'll be hit massively by this. No doubt about it.

eagle eye

This is my last comment on this.

I've been a Patriots fan for a long, long time. I can only think of one player leaving before that felt worse than this and that was Curtis Martin.

ReacherCreature

I'm not caring about all these 'bitchy' after posts in the media. Just want to throw my last 2 cents in and say thanks to Randy for the three years of fantastic service. You sir, are a legend.

Syferus

Well let's be fair - Belichick isn't one for drama so even if he and Moss had a Karate Kid-esque full-motion fight I'd imagine he'd be more likely to say Moss' (hypothetical!) black eye was caused by the the plane door than tell his 'friends' in the media the inside scoop.

davyjose

Syferus wrote: »

Well let's be fair - Belichick isn't one for drama so even if he and Moss had a Karate Kid-esque full-motion fight I'd imagine he'd be more likely to say Moss' (hypothetical!) black eye was caused by the the plane door than tell his 'friends' in the media the inside scoop.

What? You lost me at "kid-esque".

Syferus

davyjose wrote: »

What? You lost me at "kid-esque".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Karate_Kid

Everyone has heard of Karate Kid.. I thought.. !

davyjose

Syferus wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Karate_Kid

Everyone has heard of Karate Kid.. I thought.. !

Syferus San!!!

davyjose

Favre's response (gotta love it):

Who woulda ever thunk it?'

Black Swan

Doubt that Moss will be a major factor for the Viks in this weekend's away game with the Jets. There will have to be some adjustments made on short notice after little practice.

Hazys

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/08/when-dealing-with-moss-aftermath-out-of-character-belichick-treads-lightly/

This analysis is similar with what i believe:

League insiders have been buzzing about the decision of Patriots coach Bill Belichick to conduct an unscheduled press conference on Thursday regarding the trade of receiver Randy Moss. As one source observed, the move was "out of character" for Belichick, and it conflicted with his history when it comes to matters of this nature.

In matters of this nature, Belichick's usual approach is to say as little as possible, preferably nothing.

The fact that Belichick spoke so glowingly about Moss seems to be even more confusing in light of the mounting evidence that he was becoming a problem in the locker room. As one source explained it, Moss was behaving at times like the Moss of old, but he was smarter about when and where he would act up, in order to avoid creating tangible, public proof of an attitude that laid the foundation for the team's decision to move on, at a time when Moss made it clear that he wanted to move out.

So why would Belichick feel compelled to come out and contradict the various reports of things that occurred away from cameras and microphones? Our own hypothesis/theory/spitball is that Belichick knows Moss better than Moss knows Moss, and that Belichick knows that, with a game against Moss coming up in three weeks, the last thing Belichick should do is provide Randy with any extra motivation to have a big game.

Time and again, we've seen Moss -- who indeed plays when he wants to play -- respond to outside influences that pushed him to choose to play, and to play hard. Moss already will be driven to have a big game when he returns to Gillette Stadium on Halloween. We think that Belichick wants to be sure Moss doesn't come to New England dressed up as the 1998 version of himself.

Also another point i would like to add, Bill went out of his way to have his unscheduled conference before Moss had his. So he probably could stop Moss believing that there was any bad blood between them before Moss had something to say.


I think people are being extremely naive to believe that Bill had no issues with Moss and his decision to ship him off midseason for a 3rd round pick was purely based on a good value trade.

eagle eye

Hazys wrote: »

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/08/when-dealing-with-moss-aftermath-out-of-character-belichick-treads-lightly/

This analysis is similar with what i believe:



Also another point i would like to add, Bill went out of his way to have his unscheduled conference before Moss had his. So he probably could stop Moss believing that there was any bad blood between them before Moss had something to say.


I think people are being extremely naive to believe that Bill had no issues with Moss and his decision to ship him off midseason for a 3rd round pick was purely based on a good value trade.

What you are doing is overthinking things. Take things at face value for a change. Most people do not go around scheming.

A load of players have come out and said that he was a great leader and was never any trouble in the locker room.

Syferus

He knows Moss better than Moss and he knows Moss with be Moss if Moss is Moss and therefor, Moss will always be Moss until Moss decides otherwise. Moss.

davyjose

Syferus wrote: »

He knows Moss better than Moss and he knows Moss with be Moss if Moss is Moss and therefor, Moss will always be Moss until Moss decides otherwise. Moss.

For fcuk sake dude. You talk boll0x like this, then complain when tallaght has a go at you. What was the point of that post?

Syferus

League insiders have been buzzing about the decision of Patriots coach Bill Belichick to conduct an unscheduled press conference on Thursday regarding the trade of receiver Randy Moss. As one source observed, the move was "out of character" for Belichick, and it conflicted with his history when it comes to matters of this nature.

In matters of this nature, Belichick's usual approach is to say as little as possible, preferably nothing.

The fact that Belichick spoke so glowingly about Moss seems to be even more confusing in light of the mounting evidence that he was becoming a problem in the locker room. As one source explained it, Moss was behaving at times like the Moss of old, but he was smarter about when and where he would act up, in order to avoid creating tangible, public proof of an attitude that laid the foundation for the team's decision to move on, at a time when Moss made it clear that he wanted to move out.

So why would Belichick feel compelled to come out and contradict the various reports of things that occurred away from cameras and microphones? Our own hypothesis/theory/spitball is that Belichick knows Moss better than Moss knows Moss, and that Belichick knows that, with a game against Moss coming up in three weeks, the last thing Belichick should do is provide Randy with any extra motivation to have a big game.

Time and again, we've seen Moss -- who indeed plays when he wants to play -- respond to outside influences that pushed him to choose to play, and to play hard. Moss already will be driven to have a big game when he returns to Gillette Stadium on Halloween. We think that Belichick wants to be sure Moss doesn't come to New England dressed up as the 1998 version of himself.

I'm entirely sure that was more amusing than what I said.

whaturmuva

They had to have wanted him out of the locker room. They would have been compensated a end of round third round pick just for losing him in free agency.

eagle eye

whaturmuva wrote: »

They had to have wanted him out of the locker room. They would have been compensated a end of round third round pick just for losing him in free agency.

5th round actually.