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140.6 deep breaths...
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I had an optional run down for yesterday evening but decided against it. As a result I was that bit fresher this morning. I still hit the snooze button once though so didn't get the full use of the maximum possible 80min swim window before work. I literally have to be waiting at the door for that!
Tuesday am: Long swim set (LC)
I've done a few 4km sets now and after the 10*400 I was comfortable enough at the distance. So, I considered a different approach. Finishing it faster than I start it. To do it on a set of 10*400 or something similar you would have to gradually drop the RTs or increase the pace. Thats too much thinking for 7am for me. Instead I drew up a plan of increasing sets of shorter rep distances and tightening RTs as I go.
The plan
800m off 15:00
4*400m off 7:15
6*200m off 3:30
8*100m off 1:45
The idea was to have roughly 10-15 secs rest for 8 and 4s and 5-10 secs rest for 2s and 1s. So starting at 1:50/100m pace and finishing at 1:35/100m pace. Definitely my most ambitious swim set yet.
Actual
800m off 15:00
4*400m off 7:15
6*200m off 3:30
2*100m off 1:45
Overall it was a good session but I ran out of time to get it done. I'm not sure how I would have fared with the rest of the 100s though as I was working pretty hard on the 200s. The 800 felt lovely, long smooth strokes and warming up gradually. I hit a nice rhythm on the 4s but the drop in rest time for the 200s was really significant. I really had to shift up a gear for them. I had tired by the time I hit the 100s and knowing I was out of time I kind of thrashed them. I liked the session and have unfinished business just to complete it before work! Next week is a recovery week though so it will have to wait. I hate not finishing workouts. The desire to do the very same session the next day requires taming. To tie me over I'm pencilling in a 3.8k TT next week
Time: 1:08
Dist: 3,800m0 -
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shotgunmcos wrote: »Jaysus I wasn't going that quick. LSRs are generally in the 4:35-4:45 region at the moment.
Eh? Want to elaborate? Overtraining is an interesting topic though, maybe worth a thread. I'll admit having chat with myself lately about reining some sessions back in
getting dangerously close to a useful discussion here. I'd expect the mods to delete the thread quickly....
Supressed HR is a classicaly sign of overtraining, albeit its one that comes a little too late.
When training properly I use HRV and if that dips and stays dipped for two straight days I'll pull sessions until it gets better. Monday was a huge dip, was ready to back off for ages, and it then rebounded hugely Tuesday and this morning so I can hammer away a while more
Once O/T happens properly though recovery can be in the weeks if not months.
Oh and it's actually 1:1 on the Tunney comments thingy.
You were right about not get injured in your first year.
I was right about your coach last year 0 -
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Tuesday pm: Medium Z2/3 run
The plan was to just run on feel at the higher end of my base zone. So I did that and only looked at the watch at the end. I put on the iPod also as I rarely do to distract me from checking the garmin when it beeped. The first hour was a dance mix with Carl Cox, an old favourite, for a finish so I pushed the cadence. I felt comfortable but knew I was in Z3 on hills. I pulled back a little in the last 20 mins with some slower RnB beats in my ear. It was wet and windy out but cool also so the layers I had on were probably a bit heavy. I had to stop once to tie a shoe lace with 15 mins to go and I never really recovered my rhythm. The last km was uphill and into the wind so a bit of a slog. Overall the pace was 4:17/km, hr 156. Too quick and hr too high, so I overestimated it :rolleyes:
Time: 1:26 + stretch
Dist; 20.07km
Wednesday am: Group swim session (LC)
Back down a lane this morning and cruised on some feet for most of it. It was a regular enough set with 4*50m hard dotted about. The Coach spotted me in the group and had me lead out the last set. I kicked too hard off the wall and immediately cramped up for my sins. For a finish the coach had us trying to scull on our back with our feet out in front of us! After about 10 frustrating attempts at trying to move forward and keep my legs from sinking to the floor I just did some easy breast stroke. What in the bejeesus the purpose was I don't know
Time: 1:05
Dist: 3,100m
Some ramblings…
Ok, I’m at an interesting place with training. It’s generally going well. Some key training objectives such as getting the swim up to 4k and the long run up to 2.5hrs have been achieved, as well as adapting to the top lane in the pool and improving the run cadence to 88-90. That said I am dropping back to a slower swim lane more regularly and will be dropping the run pace on some runs quite a bit. The reason is due to the increased volume of training and making sure I have good energy for key sessions. The only training objective outstanding for now is a 5 hour bike. I just haven’t been out on the road enough. The 2 key sessions for this block of training was a 5hr/1hr brick and a 3.8km timed swim. I’m hoping to knock both of these off over the next week or so.0 -
LOLgetting dangerously close to a useful discussion here. I'd expect the mods to delete the thread quickly....
Sorry but whats HRV? I get a sense of what you are getting at though. I've posted a couple of days ago about the body's warning signs and soon after feeling the need to rein it back in. I have a recovery week coming up and I intend to make full use of itSupressed HR is a classicaly sign of overtraining, albeit its one that comes a little too late.
When training properly I use HRV and if that dips and stays dipped for two straight days I'll pull sessions until it gets better. Monday was a huge dip, was ready to back off for ages, and it then rebounded hugely Tuesday and this morning so I can hammer away a while more Although the reining in has already started mentally
Have you first hand experience and if not, any articles you might suggest?Once O/T happens properly though recovery can be in the weeks if not months.
Fair enough. I will get you on the sub 1:10 f/s comment some day thoughOh and it's actually 1:1 on the Tunney comments thingy.
You were right about not get injured in your first year.
I was right about your coach last year
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shotgunmcos wrote: »LOL
Well to be fair this is the only thread I following on ART. The rest of it really has gone to the pits. No discussion, no information, nothing allowed, everything stifled. The dead sea anti-pattern and all that.shotgunmcos wrote: »Sorry but whats HRV? I get a sense of what you are getting at though. I've posted a couple of days ago about the body's warning signs and soon after feeling the need to rein it back in. I have a recovery week coming up and I intend to make full use of it Although the reining in has already started mentally
Heart Rate Variablity. The difference in time between beats of your heart. A well rested, fit, heart does not beat with a constant gap between beats. The more overtrained you are the more regular it is. By monitoring your HRV you can graph your slide into over reaching and stop it before it becomes over training.shotgunmcos wrote: »Have you first hand experience and if not, any articles you might suggest?
Me overtrained. Never. Was one of the reasons that I got a coach. Recovery is slow and involves lots of rest. Jellies may or may not be required. I've also suffered from adrenal problems which are a pain too. Best to avoid them as well. OOOOOOHHHHHH medical advice, or rather something plain useful, I can get into this off board if interested, you know my address. Best to avoid these problems.shotgunmcos wrote: »Fair enough. I will get you on the sub 1:10 f/s comment some day though
I'm sure you will. You swim short course right ? 0 -
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Branson Limited Greengrocer wrote: »Have you a target time in mind for your race yet? Sub 10hr/10.5hr;)To be honest anything slower than 9:45 (provided her gets to the start line) would be a failure in my eyes for MCOS, reckon his unspoken goal is closer to 9:15.
Nice that you two have such faith in me, but Tunney you are having a laugh there right? Its my first IM, self coached and only doing tri 2 years. Marthon pb of 3:27 and longest ever bike just a shade over 4 hours
Even the best make silly mistakes, like running a giddy 'i just smacked the bike' 20secs/km faster than planned race pace for the first 10k of their first IM Marathon and paying for it There is so much about it that scares the sh!t out of me but I tell you what I'll sleep on it and post some provisional split targets up here tomorrow. They will be very very provisional as there is so much for me to learn, so many training objectives to hit and as you say most of all get to the start line healthy. Oh and most I've been on the TT set up is an hour and a bit. I have to get a fit done too. No SRMs, zipp900 or the like for me!
Interesting and how do you monitor that? Thats a bit sciency aint it. I've noticed the feel of it I guess. Where obviously my base fitness has improved and the pace I seem to hold for a set hr is better. Although the RPE does not correlate. RPE is something I'm keen to get used to as I'm doing the IM with the garmin and we all know the potential for technology to go tits up when you actually need it!Heart Rate Variablity. The difference in time between beats of your heart. A well rested, fit, heart does not beat with a constant gap between beats. The more overtrained you are the more regular it is. By monitoring your HRV you can graph your slide into over reaching and stop it before it becomes over training.
I don't get the jellies, a chocoholic myself. I traded 3 cadburys mini eggs for 3 jelly tots with shotgunjunior the other day and man that was a bum dealMe overtrained. Never. Was one of the reasons that I got a coach. Recovery is slow and involves lots of rest. Jellies may or may not be required. I've also suffered from adrenal problems which are a pain too. Best to avoid them as well. OOOOOOHHHHHH medical advice, or rather something plain useful, I can get into this off board if interested, you know my address. Best to avoid these problems.
Nope long courseI'm sure you will. You swim short course right ? 0 -
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Thursday pm: Lunchtime run Z1/2
The purpose today was to try and maintain a cadence of 90 and keep the heart rate in the lower half of Z2. That I did. I am getting a bit frustrated with the Garmin spikes though so I have to pull the finger out and order one of those Polar ones. It will have to wait a few weeks as any available funds were used to book the flights to Roth at the weekend. It feels even more real now
Overall it was a sluggish run on a muggy day. Nothing special. Monday is a day off completely and I'm looking forward to it.
Time: 0:46
Dist: 10.28km
Weight matters
On the scales this morning and could scarcely believe what I saw.
74.9kg!!
I remember aiming for 76 for Budapest last year and got to 76.8. I was 84kg on the day of my first Tri in April 2009. Plus Lent is coming up and the bad habit are getting knocked on the head for real this time....
Cheers pgibbo. Roth is a Challenge event ie: no connection to the WTC or the the big Island. I'll do an IM branded one some day if Roth doesn't kill me but to be honest I haven't even got one pencilled into my rough to-do listLooking forward to hearing those splits MCOS! :cool: My thoughts - Your marathon PB is a soft one based on what you've done since then. Your swim is in great shape and your bike is very strong too even if you haven't gone for more than 4 hours. What time would you need at Roth to get a slot on the Big Island for your AG?
Because we were all too busy laughing at my attempts!Why didn't you ask the coach what the purpose of the sculling on your back legs first was for?
+1@tunney - how do you measure HRV and how often (daily, multiple times a day0 -
shotgunmcos wrote: »Roth is a Challenge event ie: no connection to the WTC or the the big Island. I'll do an IM branded one some day if Roth doesn't kill me but to be honest I haven't even got one pencilled into my rough to-do list
Makes sense alright. I thought I read somewhere before that it was possible to qualify via the Challenge events. Maybe I'm losing it... 0 -
shotgunmcos wrote: »Nice that you two have such faith in me, but Tunney you are having a laugh there right? Its my first IM, self coached and only doing tri 2 years. Marthon pb of 3:27 and longest ever bike just a shade over 4 hours Even the best make silly mistakes, like running a giddy 'i just smacked the bike' 20secs/km faster than planned race pace for the first 10k of their first IM Marathon and paying for it
Whats the point of the training then?
You're either aiming for a great race or really really really overtraining.
Many people go sub ten on their first attenpt.shotgunmcos wrote: »There is so much about it that scares the sh!t out of me but I tell you what I'll sleep on it and post some provisional split targets up here tomorrow. They will be very very provisional as there is so much for me to learn, so many training objectives to hit and as you say most of all get to the start line healthy.
Look forward to reading them - with justifications.shotgunmcos wrote: »Oh and most I've been on the TT set up is an hour and a bit. I have to get a fit done too. No SRMs, zipp900 or the like for me!
Fits are good but given where you live there isn't anyone around. (Fernando is the only one to go to). SRMs - well you don't use power. Disc - get a 90 euro wheel cover.
HRV - very pricey Polar watch. Or an iPhone/Android with a dongle. I use the 20 euro dongle for an iPhoneshotgunmcos wrote: »Interesting and how do you monitor that? Thats a bit sciency aint it. I've noticed the feel of it I guess.
Or to be misinterpreted with fatigue.shotgunmcos wrote: »Where obviously my base fitness has improved and the pace I seem to hold for a set hr is better. Although the RPE does not correlate. RPE is something I'm keen to get used to as I'm doing the IM with the garmin and we all know the potential for technology to go tits up when you actually need it!
Pacing is a very tricky thing. I've lots of notes on pacing an IM, will mail them on.
Chocolate is okay, jellies rock, Aoibhe was weighed recently at 12 months old she was the same weight as what I put on since Austriashotgunmcos wrote: »I don't get the jellies, a chocoholic myself. I traded 3 cadburys mini eggs for 3 jelly tots with shotgunjunior the other day and man that was a bum dealshotgunmcos wrote: »Nope long course
There goes that joke then.0 -
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Thursday pm: Turbo FTP session
The Plan
2*20 min FTP work
Actual
Easy turbo, no intensity... meh
Another crazy day at work, lucky to do anything at all :rolleyes:
Friday am: Group swim session (LC)
Large posse down so had to hop into the top lane or the Coach would have given me one of his looks. The usual warm up and a tame enough main set
2*(200/150/100/50)
The RTs were fine but the pace was bang on 1:30/100 so it was hard graft really. I felt good though.
The coach then dished out the LT set which incorporated lactic acid. Speed seems to be on his regular Friday menu now.
Hence another early shower for me...
Time: 0:58
Dist: 2,600m
Friday pm: Easy run
The plan was to run with Caz. Since I got home first I did a lap by myself at circa 4:40-4:50 pace the hooked up with Caz for an even easier lap circa 5:20-5:40 pace. Just nice to run with company for a change. The legs actually felt terrible for a start but loosened up eventually. Having said that, my quads and calves in particular need some down time soon.
Time: 1:10
Dist: 13.75km
Saturday am: Long brick (benchmark session)
The plan
Run off a 5hour bike
Actual
5:02 Bike 0:30 Run
I figured I’d hook up with the cycling club to get the bulk of it done and they usually do a good climb too. It didn’t pan out quite like that. A 5 hour bike was new territory for me and I was going to learn stuff today that was for sure. Conditions started lovely and then turned cooler and quite windy after an hour or so. I worked with the large group up to 1:15 and felt rather sluggish. The pace was lively from the start and I felt it when I hit the front into the wind. My quads were just not fresh and as such it took more out of me that usual. At 1:15 I had to stop for a leek but as I got going again my chain came off. This was just before Kilmallock so by the time I got there the group had vanished. I had no idea which road out of the town they took. I knew some of them had intended to climb over the Ballyhouras mountains so I pressed on towards Ardpatrick in their general direction. I knew they would have turned off at some point but it was my first time in these parts and didn’t want to get lost. For about half an hour my legs felt awful and I seemed to struggle with the wind. I hadn’t even put 2 hours down and I was seriously doubting my energy. However I had been so busy just plugging away that I didn’t realise I had been steadily climbing all that time. I didn’t know where I was. I eventually hit a little town called Kildorrey which sat on top of a stinker of a hill. Finally a road sign I recognised Mallow! Crap. I knew the group would emerge from the hills somewhere near Charleville but I had gone on a bit further. By the time I reached Mallow I had 3 hours of wind and hills put down and was relieved to finally have a tail wind. It was 60km back to Limerick at this point, more than I had bargained for but sufficient to ensure I had to do at least 5hours. Once out of Cork the terrain levelled out and I was flying along. I did suffer a little from 4-5 hours, especially facing the now stiffened headwind for 15 mins before home. Overall speed was 30.4kmh, hr 132 so well inside my base zones and a decent pace considering the watch was running while stopped to do my business and fumble with the chain.
Time: 5:02
Dist: 153.55km
I took about 3-4mins of a transition and headed out for a shorter than intended run. I hit my target pace immediately and my heart rate was under 140 which was good. My neck and back were quite stiff from the bike and my legs did feel ropey. I was also hungry. I had to stop at traffic lights and again to tie my lace and both times I found it very difficult to get going again. I think this was more about nutrition than fitness. While the stats were ok, 4:50/km, hr 136, I was clearly out of juice, hence the decision to cut the run short. Overall I’m just pleased to get a solid long bike done and to be able to run off it
Time: 0:30
Dist: 6.21km
The learning part.
I’ve now tuned into the nutrition side of things. I have read a good few articles today about it as well as good stuff on nutrition on the Australian Institute of Sport website. In a nut shell I did not take on enough for the bike ride today let alone enough to have the body ready to get running afterwards.
My intake today:
8 fig rolls at 11.7g of CHO per biscuit = approx 94g CHO
2 PB gels at 27g of CHO per sachet = 54g of CHO
1 0.7l energy mix drink with approx 50g PSP22 mix
1 0.7l water
Total: 198g CHO, 1.4l fluid
Based on my weight and ballpark minimum estimate of 1.5g CHO per KG per hour plus what I know I lose in sweat, I needed 550g of CHO and approx 2.5l of fluid for the 5hrs on the bike today. That should be more for Roth since the output will be higher, the temperature much hotter and the small matter of running a marathon afterwards! So, basically I took on less than half of the nutrition I need and less than half the fluid. If I were to stick to the fig roll/gel strategy, I’d need more like 20 fig rolls and 11 gels! Since I have no intention of taking 4 gels an hour in Roth I have to experiment with this some more. The most basic lesson however was MORE FUEL!! There was no way I’d have done an LSR off the bike today 0 -
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Would you have sany other links on stuff you read?
And can i ask you where does breakfast and what you eat the night before fit in (if out early)? I had big bowl of pasta night before and cereal, toast and jam half hour before my ride.
Do you use a recovery drink out of interest?
And any thoughts on how to get that much CHO into yourself? Banana's i guess as they are very CHO dense.
Hey kennyb3 here are some articles to browse including the link to tritalks wiki on the subject which is useful
http://www.endurancecorner.com/library/nutrition/race_nutrition
http://www.ironmate.co.uk/ironman-nutrition-tips.htm
http://ezinearticles.com/?Nutrition-Tips-For-the-Ironman-Triathlon-Bike&id=2360577
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=438
http://www.ironmanpower.com/nutrition/articles/406/Fueling_an_Ironman.aspx
Plus a whole bunch of links on the www.tritalk.co.uk wiki around this
http://www.tritalk.co.uk/wiki/Ironman_Nutrition/
Yeah I use this recovery shake with LF milk after long rides and long runs. I'm thinking of using it after a long swim too. I used to use the PSP rego recovery which was grand but I find the High5 chocolate alternative lighter and generally more delicious
Yeah I generally take very little on any bike up to 3 hours as I do with runs up to 2 hours. Anything more though and nutrition comes firmly into play.
How to get more CHO onboard? Practice with different things. Its very individual. I like fig rolls and can take the gels no bother but there is a limit to how many. Lad A who I referred to in the long post a while back took a huge amount of gels on the bike and his stomach was in ribbons in the second half of the run. He surviced on coke and water and ran every step but spent several hours on repeated drips afterwards.its very easy to underestimate what fuel you need. Reading Racing Weight at the moment myself and from last night i took that i should really be taking an energy drink that contains some protein!
Great story there ronanmac. Would love to get into a place like that and see how they do it!!
Interesting, I'm about 50pgs into it and wondering what my best racing weight should be. As in what I should aim for. But protein in your race day nutrition 0 -
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