140.6 deep breaths...

kennyb3

Man you dont do anything by halfs do ya! im starving after reading your log.

Back on the wagon now man!

zico10

Hi Shotgun,
First time posting here. I don't really know which parts of log to quote, so I'll just go ahead and make my post without quoting anything. Think my point (for what it's worth) will be made just as well.
The logic behind my long run (refuse to call it a LSR) was that this is the pace I'd hoped to run my ironman marathon in. Turned out to be a few seconds quicker on the day, but there's no harm in that. I'm not implying you're not able for the pace, you've already managed a long run of this nature, so clearly you are. Before sticking to the paces I imposed, I'd ask yourself 'what time do I want to do the marathon in?' Then I'd adjust the pace accordingly. If this turns out to be 4.30/km, then go with it.
Are you used to training runs of this distance and pace? In my experience pushing your body like this can take a few days to hit you. Do you think this could have been a factor in the poor run you had some days later in your plan?
No nutritionist, but also going cold turkey on chocolate, I wonder is it a good idea to suddenly deprive yourself of something your body is used to. Has Lent started? I've lost track of time on my travels. Or is there some other reason?

shotgunmcos

Thanks guys.

@pgibbo - I don't take anything with me on long runs. I usually do them first thing in the morning with a bagel and some oranje juice before I go out. I've had a couple of 'wobbles' before. A mate of mine tested my blood sugar levels with his diabetes gadget after a certain episode in work one time becaue he recognised my symptoms and the readings were very low. I came around again pretty soon after some food but Caz isnt letting me do the IM unless I get a full MOT done. So I'm overdue that chat with the doc.

@griffin100 - I hear ya chief. Its a different ballgame after a day of office politics. However generally the training is my outlet for all that sh!te. I give my brain a rest from thinking when I run.

@zico10 - Thanks for posting sensei! Good questions. I have been running my long runs with my heart rate in view all winter. I only check teh pace and numbers when I get home. So, generally its on RPE. I've been running 99% of teh time with my hr capped at 155. Over the winter my long run pace has reduced from 4:45-4:50 pace down to 4:35-4:40 pace for the same heart rate. To be honest I have no idea what to expect from the IM marathon. I made a rough estimate at 3:30 or 4:55 pace. My current Marathon pb is out of date but stands at 3:27. Based on that 3:30 would be highly unrealistic but a 1:25 half recently suggests I'm in better shape than that. I'm heading out for a long bike tomorrow and I'll run off it at RPE only and see what the numbers are.

The chocolate thing... I have a real sweet tooth. I can go through a pack of chocolate hob nobs in one go without a thought, or 2-3 of the same chocolate bars. I'm as bad for biscuits but only keep fig rolls, digestives and rich tea in the house now (and eating lots of em). Lent starts March 9th so I'm waaay too early for it. Its just a discipline thing. Ween myself off it until I can see it as just a treat and not a part of a staple diet! Its one of my favourite things so yeah cold turkey is a little like punishment. The problem was work was crazy for a few weeks and I found myself comfort eating a LOT. I'm not off it forever by any means, this IM stuff is hard enough without being sadistic about it :cool:

pgibbo

Given that I have no experience of running for more than 90mins I can't really comment on nutrition for long runs. I know a lot of people that take this approach and others who always bring water or gels or both. My question to you is, if you take on CHO on your long cycles, why not on your long runs? Just curious.

Fair play to Caz on the the MOT front. it amazes me how much people neglect check ups for themselves but service their car on a regular basis. Something I'm guilty of myself.

shotgunmcos

pgibbo wrote: »

My question to you is, if you take on CHO on your long cycles, why not on your long runs? Just curious.
.

Good question pgibbo and Caz hounds me about the same thing. Traditionally I've never taken anything out with me on long runs when I'm training for a Marathon. Maybe in the run up to an event I'll practice with some gels as the runs get longer. With normal long runs I'd rarely run over 2 hours and generally your glycogen store is good for 2 hours. Feulling for the bike is because typically you cycle for longer than that and eventually exhaust the glycogen stores. So I take on CHO on the bike with a view to having energy for longer

I probably should bring some water at least, although carrying for that long drives me mad. I do intend to practice some simulation long runs, like walking some bits and feulling like I might do at aid stations.

Looking back on my diary, the 2 tough session the day before may have been a factor. Although I took a recovery shake after both and ate loads that day.

baza1976

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Nope
It was a bizarre one to be honest. No idea what happened. Ahh Keeper Hill. I've been up it a few times and I get an email every week from the hill running posse which often has Keeper on the menu. I'm sooo tempted every time but I just can't risk an injury. Are you still cycling up to the Conn marathon?

No, the cycle to Connemara is out.... I'm still thinking about cycling to down to Cork 2 days before the Cork marathon, staying int he Sis inlaws and returning the day after the marathon.

Mighty training thread by the way.

handangeo

G'day people,

Training for Roth myself hoping for Sub 11 - did a 12:06 in IM Switzerland last year - interesting reading this thread!

Handangeo

shotgunmcos

Friday pm: Z2 run with 4*1km tempo
I haven’t done any fast or hard running in ages so even though this was only a bit of fartlek thrown into a medium length run, it would be some kind of shock to the system. In the IM phase I’ll add reps and drop the rest but this was just to get me started. One recurring theme in a lot of running literature is to do fast stuff fast and easy stuff easy. So I just pushed the reps hard enough to get the heart rate into Z4 territory and keep a steady consistent tempo. I know if I was aiming for shorter distances or road races I’d have to be doing a lot more of this stuff to improve not just speed, but recovery too. I guess the more of it I do the easier my Marathon, and IM Marathon pace will feel. Overall it was a decent run but I don’t know how many more reps I could do at that pace.

Saturday am: Long bike
I was calculating the CHO required from the energy drinks, gels and fig rolls in my sleep – how sad is that! Anyway 380g of CHO on board versus the 198g last time I did a 5 hour bike should have suggested I had more juice for the session. It didn’t really feel like that. For starters, the wind was all over the place and wind was my nemesis for this ride. I usually don’t mind a headwind as I just HTFU and consider it to be ‘good training’. On this session though and despite taking enough fuel with me, my legs were not firing. I did 2.5 hours with the Club group initially. It was easy enough stuff until a few attacked up a hill and the front 2 took off hell for leather. I let it go for a couple of minutes then stupidly my ego took over and I gave chase. Given the size of the gap I was on the drops and had the boot down to bridge it. I got within 20m and my chain came off. If that wasn’t enough of a sign the puncture Gods frowned upon me 10 minutes later to make sure I had calmed down. As I fixed that, the heavens opened. I considered myself truly scolded! The next 2.5 hours was alone. I took in a climb first of all and it was an effort. I descended rather gingerly as my chain came off twice more. Next I headed back out of Limerick into a stiff headwind and it sucked the life out of me. I had nothing in the legs for the kind of rollers I’d usually press over. I really contemplated taking earlier exits than planned but I forged ahead and got it done. I had a tailwind for most of the last hour but just spun home in the small ring. I originally planned a run off the bike but decided against it. I was pressed for time and too tired anyway. I was happy just to get a long bike done. 145.88kms in 5:04 at 28.8kmh hr 123

Sunday am: Brick session
2.5hr Bike / 1hr Transition run
I headed out with the Club group again for an easy spin. 2 spins in one weekend is a complete novelty for me! It was a nice day but cooler and a bit windier. The pace was very leisurely but with such a large group string out due to early punctures I pressed on with a few cycling club heads with a view to turning back at Sixmilebridge and collecting the group. As we turned to regroup my chain snapped. I suppose it was coming! I thought my day was done and I was all ready to ring for a lift and sit on a wall with an ice cream when a guy pulled up with a rivet removal tool. Saviour! Between us we fixed the chain and got going again. We rolled through Newcastle west and onto Shannon but lost a few in transit. I lead a small group back to pick up some stragglers with various mechanical issues but as I fixed a mudguard for one girl everyone vanished. The race back to Limerick had begun early! I towed the girl to Shannon and knew she would get home from there (strong cyclist) and proceeded to do 20 mins tempo. My legs felt a bit fresher than the previous day’s spin and it was a much drier day too. I quite enjoyed the tempo bit and reeled in plenty of the group casualties before dropping to the small ring and spinning home. 75.39km in 2:30 at 30.1kmh hr 128

I changed into fresh running gear for the transition run as that’s what I’ll be doing for the IM. It was actually a lot more comfortable than running in bike shorts and top than I thought it would be. It was a 2 lap run. The first 20 mins were very transition like with the heavy sluggish legs. Then there was 10 mins of a mental struggle. I thought I had run out of gas. It felt warm in the sunshine but quite chilly running into the wind. I was in shorts and tee so basically just got cold with the wind against me. On the second lap I got a second wind from somewhere and found a nice rhythm. My cadence improved along with my pace for the same RPE and it turned into a pretty decent transition run with a Z1 heart rate.

Sunday pm: Core
Push ups, sit ups, leg raises, planks and lots of stretches. Half hearted really.

Weekly numbers
21-27 Feb|# sessions|Time hh:mm|Distance kms
Total|13|20:53|364.44km
Swimming|3|3:34|11.0
Cycling|3|8:49|267.97
Running|5|6:15|82.92
Conditioning|2|2:15|Yoga/Row + Core strength



A solid week and very pleased to get out on the bike twice in one week. There were some tough workouts though and moments where my spirit gave out to me. This sub10 effort is no joke. I have googled the results of triathletes who finish higher than me in NS races who have gone on to do IMs and only a few have cracked the 10 hrs. One in particular did a 10:03 this year which must have hurt. I've hit 5 hours on the bike twice now and still cannot fathom running a Marathon off it. February was a good month again with plenty of foundation laid down for the IM training. I guess there is only X amount of time and Y amount of training I can do. I just hope that in the end X+Y = 9:5X The Adare 10k is coming up soon too, I wonder if all this training will get me a pb in a short speedy event?
17 weeks down 19 weeks to go

nomadic

Get yourself a chain catcher. My bike came with one and I've never dropped the chain(que dropping my chain this weekend).
Nice week once again!

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Great weeks training again and well done on getting the two bike sessions in over the weekend. Nice low hr on the transition run for the pace aswell (circa 3:10 IM marathon)
On the transition plan for IM i take it your going full cycle gear and then change into running gear? I had contemplated just using a tri suit for both the run and cycle but i suppose the time lost in transition versus feeling comfortable for the guts of 9 hours is no contest really.

shotgunmcos

Branson Limited Greengrocer wrote: »

On the transition plan for IM i take it your going full cycle gear and then change into running gear? I had contemplated just using a tri suit for both the run and cycle but i suppose the time lost in transition versus feeling comfortable for the guts of 9 hours is no contest really.

I Don't actually own a pair of cycling short. I only use Tri shorts. I'll use the Tri shorts on the day for teh bike but under sound advice from some IM vets in my club I'll be changing to run shorts for the Marathon, especially if its a hot day. As for 3:10 off the bike, not a hope in hell! I've a Marathon coming up in April so I'll see how the fitness is then. I'll be doing it at base intensity

zico10

shotgunmcos wrote: »

A solid week and very pleased to get out on the bike twice in one week. There were some tough workouts though and moments where my spirit gave out to me. This sub10 effort is no joke. I have googled the results of triathletes who finish higher than me in NS races who have gone on to do IMs and only a few have cracked the 10 hrs. One in particular did a 10:03 this year which must have hurt. I've hit 5 hours on the bike twice now and still cannot fathom running a Marathon off it. February was a good month again with plenty of foundation laid down for the IM training. I guess there is only X amount of time and Y amount of training I can do. I just hope that in the end X+Y = 9:5X The Adare 10k is coming up soon too, I wonder if all this training will get me a pb in a short speedy event?
17 weeks down 19 weeks to go

You've still loads of time until Roth. At the same stage last year the thoughts of running a marathon after 5 hours+ on the bike seemed ludicrous. With more training behind you though, it won't seem as daunting.
Have confidence in the fact that a lot of thought, and I assume consultation, has gone into your training plan. Stick with it regardless of what happens in any other races throughout the year. Remember what your training for. You can't expect to be at your peak for other races that are not your focus.

shotgunmcos

zico10 wrote: »

You've still loads of time until Roth. At the same stage last year the thoughts of running a marathon after 5 hours+ on the bike seemed ludicrous. With more training behind you though, it won't seem as daunting.
Have confidence in the fact that a lot of thought, and I assume consultation, has gone into your training plan. Stick with it regardless of what happens in any other races throughout the year. Remember what your training for. You can't expect to be at your peak for other races that are not your focus.

Cheers zico10, not to worry chief I aint stressin too much. The whole thing just hits you from time to time especially with the mix of LIFE too. I've a couple of events planned bewteen now and the IM but literally nothing else matters. Some of them are just for somthing different to do so I'm not just training all the time You are right about one thing in that I have put a lot of though and research into the training plan, I've probably put more reading into this than I did for my Uni exams!!

shotgunmcos

Monday: REST DAY
weigh in 75.9kg
ate some chocolate

Tuesday am: Long swim
38*100m
20 off 1:50
18 off 1:45
Tough but good session

shotgunmcos

Tuesday pm: worst turbo session of the programme so far
I intended a brick session with some FTP intervals and a sharp run off it. Instead I bailed after just 10 mins of the first rep. The bike needs attention and new parts. The warm up felt like an effort. With only the small ring available I had to push 115+rpm to hit the target output and after 10 mins of it I was wasted. Quads didn't have it and I doubt they would even if I had the big ring to use at a more comfortable cadence. I just spun the rest of the session out less than half heartedly. I was so annoyed that I dismantled the bike for a clean before bundling into the car destined for the shop. Instead of a run I demolished a pack of biscuits. A session to forget. Lent is 7 days away. The diet is getting a kick in the ass for real...

kennyb3

You're bound to have plenty of highs and lows along the way. Don't beat yourself up about it

shotgunmcos

Wednesday am: Group swim session (LC)
I hopped back a lane for this one and despite one quick appearance to lead a hard 400, I remained unnoticed and swam nice and easy. 3 400s and 3 200s in ascending intensity amidst the group was a comfortable session. I swam in this lane up until 4 months ago and now it feels easy. How things progress eh. In a set of sprints 50s at the end though I immediately felt the surge of lactic far sooner than the norm. I start IM training in less than 3 weeks so my body is telling me to rein it back until then. Another midweek LSR planned for later. I will approach with caution and revert to loops for a get out option.

kennyb3 wrote: »

You're bound to have plenty of highs and lows along the way. Don't beat yourself up about it

Cheers kb3 . You are right. I had a shocker of a run last week and a dismal turbo this week along with struggling on the long bike at the weekend but some good sessions in between. I'm obviously leaning a little over the edge

shotgunmcos

Late work nights + poxy man flu' = No training
Jeez my moaning about crap training is starting to sound like Tunney's

Bike in the bike hospital getting new parts, chain, cassette and bottom bracket sigh... So, the PX is going to have to come out this weekend if I can get a window of opportunity. Something to look forward to salvaging from this week

handangeo

Morning,

Fell out of bed at 6 for a run, 8 miles @ 8 min/mile pace HR 152 Av, happy with that as I've been under the weather lately.

Long bikes suffering due to little ones in hospital and the damn weather on Sundays - my only day off :mad:

George

shotgunmcos

handangeo wrote: »

Morning,

Fell out of bed at 6 for a run, 8 miles @ 8 min/mile pace HR 152 Av, happy with that as I've been under the weather lately.

Long bikes suffering due to little ones in hospital and the damn weather on Sundays - my only day off :mad:

George

Hi George fair play getting up and getting it done this frosty morning! I was teh opposite, had to drag my carcass reluctantly from the scratcher. Hows the training going for you? Have you got the logistics sorted for Roth yet? That makes 3 of us on Boards now heading over for this one Have you done many IMs? Sub11 is a nice target by the way.

handangeo

Logistics - Flying out Fri back Mon with Nirvana on the ground. Used them last year for IM Switz 70.3 and IM Switz, find them very good. Staying in Ibis if i can remember correctly.

Previous IM - As above the 70.3 in 5hr 55 - disappointed as I panicked in the swim and the heat got to me in the end, so much for training here in 5 degrees!. A monthe later I did 12.06 in the Full IM, I'm a slow swimmer so it was 1hr 21, bike 6.15 - punctured and lost at least 15 mins arsing about and the run 4hr 16. Was secretly hoping under 12 but couldnt get that 6mins back on the run. I am targeting running off the bike much more this year - its the whole secret with IM, being able to run consistently for me 8min miles within my HR Z2.

Also my nutrition on the bike was not good enough - needs to be addressed.

Training - Following Don Fink again this year and adjusting with harder interval training on the bike and run.........i hate swimming the boredom kills me as i swim alone and need to address this soon!

Doing around 8-10hrs per week of good sessions ramping up from April onwards.

George

griffin100

I start IM training in less than 3 weeks so my body is telling me to rein it back until then. Another midweek LSR planned for later. I will approach with caution and revert to loops for a get out option.

If you dont start your IM training for another 3 weeks wtf have you being doing for the last few months? I'm not an expert by any means but maybe your body is trying to tell you something. Have another look at Tunney's list of overtraining indicators (my favourite one is ability to ride after a ride;)). Look after yourself!

Jeez my moaning about crap training is starting to sound like Tunney's

LOL. I've been reading Tunney's blogs on and off for about a couple of years now and I dont think he's ever been really happy with a training block. Despite what he's saying I'll bet he'll have a PB and come within a hairs breath of a Kona spot:D

El Director

Ok, caught up. You've had an eventfull 2 weeks eh? I wonder if you were to take a week off completely would it help, no training or maybe a five a side or something, no tri related reading, no logging etc... I don't know but it might just help in the long run and the little 'wobble' that happened while running won't happen again. Caz is rigth re the MOT and I think all taking part in IM should have one.

I came to the conculsion late year that I will never be a technically good swimmer but that I could achieve a high enough standard for triathlon by just being consistent with it (3 times a week without fail). I think it, but you do it. So if ever I needed proof it's right here in this log.

I can't wait to start Yoga myself, my flexibility is crap. So once I am finished my strenth programme (June) I will replace it with yoga, every Tues and Thurs morn, place right beside me does bikram at 10 on those mornings.

Anyway, good training and mind yourself.

shotgunmcos

griffin100 wrote: »

If you dont start your IM training for another 3 weeks wtf have you being doing for the last few months? I'm not an expert by any means but maybe your body is trying to tell you something. Have another look at Tunney's list of overtraining indicators (my favourite one is ability to ride after a ride;)). Look after yourself!

LOL. I've been reading Tunney's blogs on and off for about a couple of years now and I dont think he's ever been really happy with a training block. Despite what he's saying I'll bet he'll have a PB and come within a hairs breath of a Kona spot:D

To answer the question: The last 4 months has been about building a base for the 12 weeks of specific IM training that will lead me up to the crucial taper and race. You and the other guys are right, things have started to come loose as I hit the 18-20 hour mark. Interesting. Diet and sleep spring to mind as things to improve if I am to start injecting pacey bits into that volume. As for riding after a ride, 'Tis a certain indicator alright

Yes Tunney is a serial sandbagger :pac:

El Director

Dude if I remember rightly you had to get a replacement cadence señor for your Tacx, where did you get it please?

handangeo

Guys I have a Tacx Bushido which I have verbally sold to the brother in law and investing in a Tacx Fortius instead - Anybody use one?

griffin100

Sorry, didn't mean the question to come out that way. Point I was trying to make was that you might be looking on this period as base training but it's still damn hard on your body.

Last year as I got closer to IM and my training time increased towards my 19hr peak week I noticed that I was starting to feel fatigued a lot of the time, both mentally and physically. Near the end of my peak period I got a cut on my hand when changing bike pedals and it took weeks for the small wound to heal. That to me was an indication that I was on the edge. That said I never failed Tunney's test (hence the reason I won't be seeing you in Roth this year).

shotgunmcos

El Director wrote: »

Dude if I remember rightly you had to get a replacement cadence señor for your Tacx, where did you get it please?

Got it from wiggle for about €15. I just waited until I was ordering something else and threw that in with it. What happened yours?

handangeo wrote: »

Guys I have a Tacx Bushido which I have verbally sold to the brother in law and investing in a Tacx Fortius instead - Anybody use one?

handageo I use a Flow so can't help you here, best to pop the question into the 'Gear & Equipment' sub forum. There was a thread on turbos a while back too if you go back a few pages it might still be there. Sorry, no time to dig this morning

griffin100 wrote: »

Sorry, didn't mean the question to come out that way. Point I was trying to make was that you might be looking on this period as base training but it's still damn hard on your body.

QFT. Yes I seemed to be handling up to 17 hours grand but the extra hour on the long bike and the midweek LSR attempt on 18-20hrs just pushed me closer to the edge. I've backed off this week to judging by feel rather than following the plan like a sheep. 2 more weeks of base left and one of those is a recover week. I'm actually thinking of switching to a 2 weeks on 1 week off pattern for the 12 weeks of IM training as 3 straight weeks of volume+intensity is tough. Either that or insert more requenty rest days. Its less than 2 years since I did my first Tri, hence the need for an extended base.

El Director

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Got it from wiggle for about €15. I just waited until I was ordering something else and threw that in with it. What happened yours?

I used to wrap it a couple of times around the orange handle and it basically cut it down to the wire and eventually the wire itself :rolleyes:

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

handangeo wrote: »

Guys I have a Tacx Bushido which I have verbally sold to the brother in law and investing in a Tacx Fortius instead - Anybody use one?

I have one. A pain to setup at the start but once that is out of the way it is a great bit of kit. The stats you get from it including the real life videos and the realistic resistance you get as you roll up and down the hills make it the closest thing to being out on your bike.
They are pricey but for me it was money well spent especially over winter, i think the cheapest place selling them at the time was Bike24.