140.6 deep breaths...

shotgunmcos

A couple of weeks ago, despite the pain of having finished an IM, I felt super fit. I mean to keep going for 10 hours straight with a shedload of work behind me to do that. So, fast forward 3 weeks of relative inactivity and I expect to be able to breeze through a long run. Not so long ago I'd have been looking forward to a 1hr40 long run as a reduced distance recovery week type of long run. Well I struggled with just that today. RPE was way too high, pace too hard, heart rate too high. Thinking I could just hold it and even drop to PMP for a bit at the end? Yeah right. What was I on! I limped in the door home, hamstrings and joints aching. So much for the invincibility feeling. The run brought me crashing back down to earth and reminded me that I will need a plan and some structure or Berlin in just 8 weeks could be another painful lesson :rolleyes: I need a cycle badly to loosen out.

@ Macrani - Cement poured on floors. We had to fill 5ft of empty space under rottten floor boards with hard packed stone, raydon barrier, 100ml Kingspan and then the cement. So thats drying now. Blockwork next and coordinating trades. Lots of decisions on the mechanics, electrics, kitchen, floors blah blah etc... Basically lots of time going into it. I managed a monster 4 hour training week this week. Training will be limited quality over quantity for the next 2 months and just have fingers crossed I will be able to get into a winter programme by November. Guess I can kiss the SBR goodbye. Maybe it will be Izo or JB this time. Hopefully I can retain some level of fitness so I don't have to reinvent the wheel. I'm targetting a Marathon and a 5k swim event both in September as my next races and to keep some goal in mind.

@ interested - Bang on mate And as always your persective, especially on swimming, is constructive and appreciated. TBH I had no expectation of swimming 58 at Roth. My best pool 3.8 was about 63, so It was the easy up and down course couple with the wetsuit and following feet regularly that got me that. I was really surprised by it and I'd take it again next year, only taking a lot less out of me. Comparitavily my swimming has progressed the most out of the 3. I guess its down to not accepting the 'comfort zone'. I literally spent most of the winter group sessions leading the pack chasing the fish. It be very comfortable then on feet which is maybe why I found the Roth swim easy. To push on I probably need to bridge the gap to the feet of the fish and improve the heart rate at which I do the long solo sets. I did a technique session once a week until last november so perhaps I'll sacrifice that for more swimming. Its a good point though about putting time into minimal swimming gains that may better be better served on the saddle. As said I'd take an easier 58 next year if I could knock a chunk off the run instead. One thing I figured out recently that I neglected to mention in my report is the high elbow. So simple but so important. I remember telling myself at the start of the Roth swim to keep my elbow up when I got tired. I think it made a different and the more I watch the elbows of the world's best at the world champs on TV the more I think having single big gain focuses in endurance and speed sets alike will yield the biggest gains on low volume. Can't believe I didn't cop the high elbow before. Yes I heard about it, did drill for it but the penny only dropped lately. So a minute faster for the same effort or same time for less effort. Either will do. Perhaps just more of the same but challenge the RTs this winter?

griffin100

TBH I had no expectation of swimming 58 at Roth.

If you remember some of us were predicting a sub one hr swim very early on in the training;)

One thing I figured out recently that I neglected to mention in my report is the high elbow. So simple but so important. I remember telling myself at the start of the Roth swim to keep my elbow up when I got tired.

eehhh stupid question....but when you say high elbow do you mean both during the pull and recovery phases or just the pull phase.

Macanri

shotgunmcos wrote: »

@ Macrani - Cement poured on floors. We had to fill 5ft of empty space under rottten floor boards with hard packed stone, raydon barrier, 100ml Kingspan and then the cement. So thats drying now. Blockwork next and coordinating trades. Lots of decisions on the mechanics, electrics, kitchen, floors blah blah etc... Basically lots of time going into it. I managed a monster 4 hour training week this week. Training will be limited quality over quantity for the next 2 months and just have fingers crossed I will be able to get into a winter programme by November. Guess I can kiss the SBR goodbye. Maybe it will be Izo or JB this time. Hopefully I can retain some level of fitness so I don't have to reinvent the wheel. I'm targetting a Marathon and a 5k swim event both in September as my next races and to keep some goal in mind.

Sounds like more than minor renovations going on there - major building happening, nice work. It will be great when you get it all done so.
Your still heading to Berlin, yea?
Tht 5km swim sounds heavy, no bother to a man of your abilities though, fair play. Is that a sea swim or lake?

shotgunmcos

I wrote about DOMS before. Well they can be a good sign that you were working the muscles right but tread carefully. Pretty much where I am getting back into things slowly. A bike on the bank holiday was much the same as the run the previous day but my first visit to the track in a year last night was good. Definite DOMS today from the weekend but a good feeling of muscles engaging themselves again. I'll just take it handy and not do too much, afterall its 'just' a 3 hour run I'm looking forward to :rolleyes: how perspective on such things change post IM

@ Griffin100 - Yep the pull phase. Yes you were right, no harder task master than the boards folk!

@ Macrani - Its a build alright, we had to demolish most of the existing structure. Sure am doing Berlin. Not taking it too seriously though, sub3 is the plan simple as. The 5k swim is in a lake and is something to keep me swimming focused for the rest of the summer, and the fun of something different.

interested

shotgunmcos wrote: »

The 5k swim is in a lake and is something to keep me swimming focused for the rest of the summer, and the fun of something different.

Wasnt part of this http://www.clwf.eu/ was it ? I assume you're in the skins race if it is

shotgunmcos

So most of the external walls have gone up and windows and doors will be ordered next week, its taking shape. I'm spending more time thinking about the shape of stairs and the weight distribution of concrete window cills these days than anything tri related :cool:

On the training side of things I came through the track session unscathed and arose without hitting the snooze button this morning for a good swim set. Managed to hang onto the tecnician's feet for 2 whole 400s Now if I can just get a good long run put down I'll be happy enough with a 7 hour week No chance to get out on the bike this week hence the turbo may be dusted down soon... joy

interested wrote: »

Wasnt part of this http://www.clwf.eu/ was it ? I assume you're in the skins race if it is

Nope thats not the one Chief. Its the one in Killaloe in Co Clare on 17/18 September

shotgunmcos

So, the scaffolding will be going up for the roof next week so progressing nicely. Walls more or less built up and windows on order. Dirty jobs like routing the gas/sewer and cleaning chimneys in view also. God help the lads working out there in the pouring rain today

Managing to adapt to some form of training in the background. Dusted off the turbo last night for some torture. The effort was aerobic but my legs felt shocked. Finsihed with a red face and drenched tee. Its going to take a few of these to find my cycling legs again. Trying to stay in touch with swimming too twice a week so I don't cough up a lung into Lough Derg a week before Berlin. That race is just a bit of fun anyway and a way of doing a race without taxing the legs. No PMP stuff done yet so no clue as to how my form sits for a sub3 effort. If I feel as fit and happy on the day as I did on April 10 this year I know I'll get it with...

shotgunmcos

Without a doubt my swimming has made the most significant progress in the last 3 years I think, followed by cycling and running dragging its heels. So what is the difference? I preach to others about consistency. I consistently swim 2-3 times weekly but I also run at least 2-4 times weekly. Certainly the consistency of the IM bike training yielded dividends. However while I can now swim with some poeple I considered to be fast 2 years ago, I'm still way off the fast lads when it comes to running. Why?

Speedwork is one thing for sure. I do speedy stuff and threshold stuff in about 75% of swim sessions. This morning for example was fast 200s and 100s followed by max efforts 50s. In contrast every time I hit the track it feels like my first venture onto the rubber surface. I just haven't ever focused on speed in running.

Another thing is simply training with others and having a hare of sorts. I swim with a group again 75% of the time and usually have someone in mind to chase or aspire to. However I run alone 95% of the time.

My swimming hare moved to Dublin so I found a fresh and indeed faster hare to benchmark myself regularly in the pool. The technician. Fast and technically quite beautiful and elegent in the water. She was one of the fish a year ago. For the first time I hing onto her feet for a 400 a couple of months ago (and then drowned in a sea of lactic acid). This morning I worked hard to stay on her feet for a whole set. She was breathing hard too as one of her Tri nemesis entered the pool so I knew there was no caosting going on. In short I was pleased with the progress again.

So I've now picked a running hare, although in comparison to this hare I'm a 3 legged overweight tortoise. Still you gotta have goals, however lofty they might be

Some FTP sweet spot stuff on the turbo last night. Good session and a whole heap better than Tuesday..

shotgunmcos

Interesting that a thread should pop up in the main forum about feulling a long run. In this respect I'm a muppet Arrived in after my LR yesterday in bits, dehydrated and aches everywhere. Not good. Caz giving out to me again and she was right. I've done many a 2 hour run unfeulled and was grand but yesterday was warm and muggy, I wasn't hydrated enough to start with and nothing but a sugary breakfast in me was all a recipe for disaster. I should know better. I did take one of Caz's 100ml belt bottles and rationed a warm sip every 15 minutes or so. It was as ueful as a chocolate tea pot. The fatigue has followed through to this morning too. I need to give the long run a bit more respect next time...

Berlin is looking like treacherous waters at the moment

catweazle

A bit late but well done on the race time.

I had to read it over again to make sure I had it right that you were falling over regularly on the run, I have had some blow outs but none as epic as that.

Easy knowing you took your training to the limit, you would also take it to the limit on race day.

Good luck in Berlin

Bambaata

I wouldn't worry too much just yet on the running, i find it takes me about 3 to 4 weeks to find my running legs again but they do come back. I find you get a eureka moment after 3 to 4 weeks and it seems it all comes back (which is lucky for me as ive just hit peak phase for Galway!). Only thing i ever have to do is keep it consistent at the 4 runs a week and it comes back. I put it down to the work before the layoff/base being strong and god knows you'd a serious base there. It doesn't just disappear but does take a short while to return.

shotgunmcos

Bambaata wrote: »

Only thing i ever have to do is keep it consistent at the 4 runs a week and it comes back. I put it down to the work before the layoff/base being strong and god knows you'd a serious base there. It doesn't just disappear but does take a short while to return.

Aye this rings true. I am only 2 weeks back into it so the eureka has yet to happen. Just concerning as Berlin is around the corner and I have zero current form to go on for the target.

Just back from an 'easy' lunchtime run in the rain and felt like probably the worst slog yet. A good long stretch, roller and sleep is in order later! I was almost trying to convince myself that I was unwell it felt so unruly. One must keep trying... I'm just waiting for that fresh bouncy endless energy run that lets you know all is well zzzzzz :cool:

How are you feeling about Galway? drop me a mail

shotgunmcos

Did anyone else notice that you could see you breath this morning? With the evenings closing in too we have to make most of the daylight in the coming weeks before we resort to baselayers and hats

Right the good and the bad about doing turbo first thing in the morning...

The good:
1. You get the session over and done with first thing and it feels like having a rest day for the rest of the day
2. There is a certain brand of HTFU that you can only buy doing a silly o'clock turbo
3. You can open the window and no one notices as they are tucked under their warm quilts. Doing turbo in the evening with windows closed and heating on is not fun. Letting rip in peace is fun too.

The Bad:
1. Your legs feel like they couldn't push a granny gear downhill to start with
2. Falling asleep onto sweaty handlebars, potential injury hazard
3. You drink a pint of water to lose the hairball at the back of the throat early morning feeling, only to have to need a pee 20 mins into the session
4. Your body temperature is toasty to begin with so you are dripping within 5 minutes
5. Your OH arises and proceeds with her daily breakfast ritual, its hard to turbo first thing with the smell of toast and coffee unless of course OH feeds you during the session Sausages are harder to digest at 80% FTP output though...

Doing the turbo first thing was a necessary evil as the evening was awash with house and general life stuff. The former is prgressing nicely. Windows going in next week, insuation starting next week and internal walls forming. There is also grass growing in the back garden which was a mud pile covered by tracks recently. We will have a roof on soon too which is a bonus

A short run planned for later with a little lung opener tester in it. It will be an indication of current form and if its anywhere near the run up to Conn. It might also simply confirm that I need to stop eating cake

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Some boyo just over the IM and building a house impressive. I hope Berlin goes well for you.

shotgunmcos

.. well thats what I keep telling myself anyway. Hopped on the scale at 76.9kg this morning which is more a result of stringing some runs together than any form of diet discipline. Hopefully tightening up the latter to sensible portions and sugar in moderation will reel in the race weight I'm targetting for Berlin.

A 5k training pb during the week suggested via Daniels, that a 2:57 should be on. A decent 2 hour long run at sub 4:30 pace yesterday would indicate as much. However, I just don't 'feel' ready yet to have a crack at it. I was feeling the run afterwards. Before Conn I had real confidence in my fitness and cycling home from Galway the next day showed that the Marathon was not approached as any kind of priority. I was uber relaxed and ran almot entirely on RPE. I'm telling myself that I just need to be in the sameframe of mind and roughly the same condition and the Sub3 should come to pass. The problem now though is I'm fixated on a time and training on 50% of the volume as pre-Conn.

Basically, a month from the event I am starting to get the jitters. Sub3 was always one I wanted since my first Marathon. I remember --amadeus-- running 3:11 that day and I was well impressed with him despite his slight disappointmnet at missing sub 3:10. I had real admiration for all those, --amadeus-- incuded, who crossed the threshold to enter the Boards Sub3 clubhouse since I don't even have a target in mind specifically and for me as significant a goal as Sub3 is to achieve, its a little too vague. I'm going to have a pace band on my wrist on the day and I have to decide what its going to be? I feel that 2:59 is cutting it too close but then perhaps staying with the 3hr pace group and finishing strong may the way to go. However a 2:57 band would leave too much to do in the second half if I elect to follow the 3 hour group.. decisions

Before that I have a small matter of a 5k swim to do. I haven't entered yet and at €55 I find ita bit steep for just a swim! I've missed the last 4 sqaud swims in a row so I've got the wetsuit in the boot for a dip after work to see if I still float in it...

Its more about quality over quantity for the cycling too. Just short but juicy turbo sessions to keep me ticking over.

shotgunmcos

Intensity over volume.

So right now its about intensity over volume and I can safely say shorter and harder sessions tires you out more than longer slower ones. Just the added spice of bits of speed and form exercises in most runs is keeping the running interesting. I think again about swimming and how every set the coach lays out seems to be different than the next. There must be a bizzillion ways to set up a swim set. Now, the spice in the swimming sets has clearly been worth something so I expect the running spices to yield dividends too.

I printed off some incrementally different km pace bands yesterday as Berlin markers are in kms. Just need to pick one over the next couple of weeks

shotgunmcos

Turns out I still float in the wetsuit but I almost felt like I was swimming under water yesterday morning at the pool. Couldn't hold the technicians feet for love nor money. I basically dogged out a 2k main set and through sheer stubborness made the RTs. They have dropped the RTs by 5 secs per 100 in my lane and it tells. I was wrecked.

Running is feeling a bit better and Coach reckons I can probably aim for the faster of the pace bands I printed out. So looks like the plan will be to drop the 3 hour pacers and try to keep them behind me. While running is feeling better I think I need a couple of more weeks of good running to feel confident about it. I'm sure the flat course and big crowds will play their part on the day. Starting to look forward to it. I've sharpened the diet a bit and weight check this week was 76.9kg. Moving in the right direction I was doing some short sprinty bits in a run last night and at one point looked at the Garmin at it showed 2:45 pace while I was hammering it. Then it struck me that this was the pace Mo Farah would be holding for 10k!! Unreal :eek: Looking forward to watching how he gets on in Deagu

With the evenings closing in it may be some time before I get out on the bike again. Weekends are tied up. Turbo torture looms this evening...

The house looks like a bomb hit it. Literally. Floor boards and bits of walls everywere as the whole place is getting rewired. The windows are all out too expecting the new ones (fingers crossed) to arrive in the morning... Its progressing although it looks anything but...

Just found out I have to work Saturday too so I'll have to record the Rugby... FFS Boooooo :mad:

MarieC

Hi Mike,

Haven't been on boards in months but scrolled back there to read your ironman report. WOW!! Massive congrats! the pics are brill also. Great to see that you are still as determined and focussed as ever - keep it up and best of luck with the B-Goal next month.

MarieC (alive in well in Melbourne, 6 weeks out from the Melbourne marathon and training going well):)

shotgunmcos

MarieC wrote: »

Hi Mike,

Haven't been on boards in months but scrolled back there to read your ironman report. WOW!! Massive congrats! the pics are brill also. Great to see that you are still as determined and focussed as ever - keep it up and best of luck with the B-Goal next month.

MarieC (alive in well in Melbourne, 6 weeks out from the Melbourne marathon and training going well):)

Hey Marie, sweet thanks. Great to hear from you. Hope you are enjoying Oz, let us know how you get on with the Melbourne Marathon! Nice that you kept up your momentum

shotgunmcos

Bah.. I had a whole post typed up with a considerable and potentially interesting brain fart. Hit submit and it asked me for my password again. Put that in then got that blasted "security tokens missing..." message only to click back and message gone :mad:

So, in short.

PMP run at the wekend was awful.
PMP bit at the end of a long run this morning worse.
Just about holding onto some turbo and swims but with 2-3 hours each evening and every morning and lunchtime dedicated to the house (progressing nicely apart from 2 frustrating hiccups at the weekend) it may have to be sacrificed for some more running form focus.
My hamstrings and calves are as tight as the steel rods they are inserting into the concrete. My own fault rushing off straight after every run.
Too much late night sitting on the couch jaded eating crap instead of early nights and more sleep. Poor sleep. crap food, tired session --cyle - stress blah blah...

Bottom line is with 3 weeks to go I'm nowhere near where I'd like to be for checking off a goal I've had for years

catweazle

Use Firefox, it holds that info on the back button

shotgunmcos

Problem is work. Logging at home on Firefox is grand. Work firewalls are a nuiscance :rolleyes: My lack of activity on here as of late is in direct relation to how mental life is in general. And there was me thinking I'd be coasting after the IM.. hah :cool:

handangeo

Hi Mike, See the house is progessing nicely. Just a quick one question HRM related.

Was out last night 2 miles @ 8/min/mile, 2 miles @7.30/min/miles and 2 miles @ 7/min/miles with a mile cool down. RPE ok but HR off the richter scale? Was in Z3 for the first 2 miles and Z4 [and above!] for the rest?? I was expecting an ambulance at any stage.

Reset the Garmin few times but still the same.

Just wondering are you experiencing anything similar, I have a friend who did IM Regensburg with the exact same issue.

Galway beckons on Sunday - Best of luck in Berlin

George

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

handangeo wrote: »

Hi Mike, See the house is progessing nicely. Just a quick one question HRM related.

Was out last night 2 miles @ 8/min/mile, 2 miles @7.30/min/miles and 2 miles @ 7/min/miles with a mile cool down. RPE ok but HR off the richter scale? Was in Z3 for the first 2 miles and Z4 [and above!] for the rest?? I was expecting an ambulance at any stage.

Reset the Garmin few times but still the same.

Just wondering are you experiencing anything similar, I have a friend who did IM Regensburg with the exact same issue.

Galway beckons on Sunday - Best of luck in Berlin

George

Sorry to jump in but i have been experiencing the exact same for the last few weeks i first thought it was me recovering from an IM a month ago but RPE is ok and hr is about 10% higher than normal Garmin as well, let the conspiracy theories start:)

shotgunmcos

The Garmin
Yep same thing lads about 10bpm up for same RPE and same course. Figured initially I just lost fitness since the IM too but back running now a couple of weeks and still odd. The spiking and stupid periods of 200-220 HR is getting increasingly annoying too, even tried Bambaata's honey trick. ultimately I want to learn top run on feel more than anything. Some day I'll think abut a PM for the bike which should demote the HRM. 'Tis a long way off though...

In training..
- Managed an hour on the turbo at a good tempo last night so feel ready for an upcoming HOP (hour of power session).
- Entered the 5k OW sswim race for the weekend ater next and I've swam twice in 3 weeks. Its going to be a whole lot tougher than anticipated after the IM buzz.
- The 2 hour Long Run this weekend wll tell all. I plan to run the first hour easy, have a drink of water, pop a gel and then run at a steady PMP RPE for the second hour not looking at any data. I'll take my average pace from that hour afterwards and set my Marathon target accordingly. I'm eager to find out what it is myself. I'm having visions of seeing a 4:16 avg pace... :rolleyes:

El Director

Hey dude question: Ho w often would you do a HOP session? Once a month, every two weeks??

Also I totally hear you on the running using RPE. I think this has to be first port of call, collect the data alright-thats very important for pacing and planning and making sure everything is ok but you need to know how it feels to run at different paces. Sometimes my HR does not much how my legs feel, on the bike a PM would help this, in the mean time I will have to build strength and endurance in them

shotgunmcos

El Director wrote: »

Hey dude question: Ho w often would you do a HOP session? Once a month, every two weeks??

The HOP is not always an hour all out. Thats just the hardest version and a bit mad Its basically getting a solid workout done in 60 mins. The progressive FTP work can lead to something like 40-50mins at 90% or 40 mins 90% with some short stabs at 100% during it and V02 intervals at 110-120 thrown in after for some fun. Ultimately you spend 5-10 mins warming up then work your nuts off for the next 45-50 mins and cool down for 5 mins. There are lots of variations to do this. Basically by 55 minutes of any formation your legs are yelling at you and you can feel your pulse in your neck without taking your hands off the bars Drink lots of water... you will be dripping long before half way. Hurts during but feels amazing once complete. More quality in an hour than 4 hours of plodding along with a group

interested

shotgunmcos wrote: »

More quality in an hour than 4 hours of plodding along with a group

Hmmm

http://www.m2rev.com/articles/m2_training_concepts/rideless.html

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

After doing the 20 minute version of FTP testing you can stick your 60 mins of HOP where the sun dont shine:):D Bloody tough going but very rewarding afterwards.

shotgunmcos

Last proper Long Run as next week will be 2 weeks out and thus a steadier and shorter affair. Plan was 30k with last 30 mins at Marathon RPE. It was wet n' windy and the route, a 4 lap one, encompassed 20 hills. None of them were too taxing. 8*short flyover, 8*easy 2 min drag and 4*harder work 3 min drag. On the first lap these didn't even feel like hills and IMRA folk would rgard them as speed bumps but by lap 4 the effort was significant. Berlin is flat so this was super compensating a bit. The first 3 laps were all steady and marginally quicker than each other, then it was a push on for the last lap. I decided that whatever my average pace was for it, I'd set that as my goal for Berlin. Ok, nailing my colours to the mast. The last lap thankfully averaged sub3 pace so its still on and still leaves me with the dilemma of what approach to take. Overall 4:24 pace for the 30k so that is in the ballpark of pre Conn form. The only worry is how tight my hamstrings and calves got. Also the hips. Another 10k and they werre in seizing territory.

Encouraging points
- pace was good
- distance done
- PMP section ok
- I'll have a breakfast on the morning which will help
- I won't have an FTP turbo set in the legs from the previous day
- 30k with hills will make a flat run seem much easier and keep the HR steadier.

Confidence is up a notch from a 2 to a 6 out of 10