Tolls

WacoKid

Bought a car in mid August but did not receive the Vehicle Reg Cert until mid Sept.

I made a journey on ther M50 in between these dates but did not pay the toll then as I was under the impression I was not yet the registered owner.

I new I would have to to pay it once VRC was registered with Shannon.

eFlow have now sent me penalties for this journey. They obviously had the journey on file but no details who to bill.

I have no issues with the fare but am unhappy with the penalty. I asked them for their definition of a registered owner and they said once you sign the form in the motor dealer you are the owner!

This is not outlined in their T&C's and they said refer to the Road Act that is on the penalty notice (Road Act 64(5)).
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/act/pub/0034/sec0002.html#sec2

It states here you are the registered owner when you are registered in the licensing records!

Chippy01

Pay your dues, and pay the toll next time - on time!
You were the owner at the time the journeys were made, and as you stated, you made the journey yourself.
The rules regarding the toll have been long in place. No excuse.

biko

Aye, just pay it = less hassle.

Did you buy from a dealer or a private person?

WacoKid

I have no issues paying the fare. I have issues with the penalty applied.

WacoKid

Chippy01 wrote: »

Pay your dues, and pay the toll next time - on time!
You were the owner at the time the journeys were made, and as you stated, you made the journey yourself.
The rules regarding the toll have been long in place. No excuse.

My question was@: when are you the owner of the car. Based on your answer above you are confirming that you know its once you sign the dealer form even though it has not been registered in Shannon.

neilthefunkeone

Regardless who owned the car at the time, YOU drove the car across the toll so you should have paid the toll in the appropriate time.. You didnt pay your toll so yes you should have got a penalty.. fairly easy one this!!!

Guy who bought my last car did the same.. Cost me time and money to keep ringing e-flow to sort it out with them and to stop sending me fines!

TouchingVirus

You don't have to be the registered owner of the car to pay the toll, you just need the license plate number and number of journeys you made. You should have paid your toll on time, but your probably knew this and decided to chance your arm anyways.

WacoKid

TouchingVirus wrote: »

You don't have to be the registered owner of the car to pay the toll, you just need the license plate number and number of journeys you made. You should have paid your toll on time, but your probably knew this and decided to chance your arm anyways.

I didn't decide to chance my arm and that offence to your petty comment.

I knew the toll would be aligned to me when car was registered but did not think a penalty would be applied.

I asked for opinion here TouchingViru, not character defamation

-Chris-

What are the penalties that you're looking at?

How many journeys? Are they €6 instead of €3 or are they €45 or €145?

Did you make other journeys and this is the only one you didn't pay for?

WacoKid

I made a journey either way, €6, up to €12 with penalties.

It is not the monterary value I am bothered about. It is eFlow have charged me without being able to clarify the definition of a 'registered owner' in their T&C's.

Maybe I am naive but I was under the impression that you own a vehicle when it is registered with Vehicle Registration in Shannon. Then you should receive backdated tolls, but without penalty. This is the case with Motor Tax where you have to backdate it but without penalty.

-Chris-

Pay the fines.

You become the legal owner the moment you hand over the payment and you receive the vehicle. Shannon's processing time doesn't come into it.

The fact is you travelled through at €3, didn't pay it and now you're being charged €6. It's being sent directly to you so your ownership has been changed/recognised.
If you were saying you were being charged €45 per journey then I'd be upset because it meant the €6 notice was sent somewhere and no one notified you, but that isn't the case here.

As for motor tax - you can pay for the tax and the arrears of the car after you take ownership, but legally you can't use it in a public place without a valid tax disk on display so it's actually very similar to your tolls situation - if the car is in your control on public roads, you're responsible for all tolls and fines received and for ensuring it's taxed & insured.

WacoKid

Thanks Chris, my mistake then.

Maybe car dealers should be obliged to explicitly inform you at the time of purchase!

-Chris-

They probably should have told you at the time, but they're able to change ownership online nowadays so (if they're efficient) the ownership is normally changed within a day or two and it therefore doesn't come up much.

Same with motor tax - I was selling a customer a car and I told him "don't worry about the tax, the gardai will give you leeway until you get the chance to sort it out, you're the new owner".
He raised an eyebrow and said "oh, really?".
Turns out he's a Garda and he explained that most Gardai will use their discretion if the tax is out on a car that's just recently bought, but the letter of the law is that it shouldn't be used in a public place without a valid disk.
Needless to say, I didn't give that advice again... :D

Victor

You are obliged to pay by 8pm the next day, not when the paperwork goes through.

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I've an idea. Set up an owners group, where I, Driver 1 own car A on the first day, Driver 2 owns car B and so on. The next day, I sell the car to Driver 2 and he sells his car to Driver 3 and so on ad infinitum.

If we keep it going long enough, we need never pay tolls.