Another Garda firearm gone missing.

Grizzly 45

With their record of firearms mishaps...It,s very beliveable..
Will I be booked for that Danno??;)

Tsk,Ah THERES where I left my shotgun,out in the umbrella stand!!Honestly!!

mcgarrett

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

With their record of firearms mishaps...It very beliveable..
Will I be booked for that Danno??;)

Having read this thread Grizzly it's clear that people posting on it are only too happy to believe rubbish like that.

I've often dropped in to read threads on this forum and found them very informative and in general the people posting are knowledgeable and are clearly committed to their sport.
But this thread reminded me of one of those feeding frenzies you see on a documentary about sharks.
"A Garda firearm has gone missing" post your stories now and don't let facts or the truth get in the way.

"Handed a gun, a couple of boxes of ammo and off you go"
"the second day seemed to consist of the same routine"

I'll send a link to this thread to the lads in the firearms training unit, they'll enjoy it.

bunny shooter

mcgarrett wrote: »

.........I've often dropped in to read threads on this forum and found them very informative and in general the people posting are knowledgeable and are clearly committed to their sport.
But this thread reminded me of one of those feeding frenzies you see on a documentary about sharks.
"A Garda firearm has gone missing" post your stories now and don't let facts or the truth get in the way.

"Handed a gun, a couple of boxes of ammo and off you go"
"the second day seemed to consist of the same routine"

I'll send a link to this thread to the lads in the firearms training unit, they'll enjoy it.

Are you dropping in as part of your official duties though

As you are apparently a Garda you could never understand our perspective

Sparks

johngalway wrote: »

Which did you change channels with though? That's what I wanna know

mcgarrett

bunny shooter wrote: »

Are you dropping in as part of your official duties though

Strictly in an unofficial capacity

bunny shooter wrote: »

As you are apparently a Garda you could never understand our perspective

No bunny, but at times I feel your pain

fish slapped

johngalway wrote: »

I wonder do these incidents of, shall we call it, "misplacing" firearms have anything to do with how people value things they get for nothing?

I spent a lot of money on my firearms, and I'm fairly sure I'll never "misplace" any of them.

If the armed Gardai had to leave in a deposit for a firearm at the start of a shift, collect it on return of the firearm, I wonder how many would "misplace" them then?

OOpps!!

fish slapped

MC Garrett, heaven forbid we should have a sense of humor or be entitled to share some witty banter.:p

mcgarrett

fish slapped wrote: »

MC Garrett, heaven forbid we should have a sense of humor or be entitled to share some witty banter.:p

Thanks fish slapped, that is a relief. I knew you didn't believe all those stories from a cousin of a friend of someones sister

bunny shooter

mcgarrett wrote: »

Thanks fish slapped, that is a relief. I knew you didn't believe all those stories from a cousin of a friend of someones sister

Sure if we believed that kinda stuff we'd have to believe the one about the full frontal lobotomy all new entrants are given as soon as they enter the training college in Templemore :D

pajero2005

bunny shooter wrote: »

Sure if we believed that kinda stuff we'd have to believe the one about the full frontal lobotomy all new entrants are given as soon as they enter the training college in Templemore :D

Dunno about ye guys but I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy :D

I'll get me coat!:o

mcgarrett

bunny shooter wrote: »

Sure if we believed that kinda stuff we'd have to believe the one about the full frontal lobotomy all new entrants are given as soon as they enter the training college in Templemore :D

This is more of it :mad:. The story again gets twisted, when I entered Templemore this first priority was to get a bottle in front of me not a frontal lobotomy .


beaten to it by pajero

tac foley

johngalway wrote: »

I wonder do these incidents of, shall we call it, "misplacing" firearms have anything to do with how people value things they get for nothing?

I spent a lot of money on my firearms, and I'm fairly sure I'll never "misplace" any of them.

Sir - you are making a couple of assumptions here -

1. The Police authorities do not get guns 'for nothing'. In fact, the individual officer doesn't get 'given' a gun at all, in the same way that a traffic officer doesn't get 'given' a car. A gun, like the car, is an item of use - both can be lethal if used carelessly. They are both issued for use, not as a gift for being a good cop.

2. This argument is fallacious - you OWN your firearms, and they were obtained by going through a series of hoops that almost beggar belief, apart from the obvious expense incurred. If you were to 'mislay' a gun when it was required to be produced as part of a police check, you would be in the deepest darkest brown stuff imaginable. Not only would you have accidentally lost a prized possession, you would be liable in law for losing a firearm and would in all probablity lose all the others you had as a punishment.

tac

homerhop

mcgarrett wrote: »

And you believe that :rolleyes:

Yes I do, you have know way of knowing how i am involved or how i know this. Its up to you if you want to take it with a pinch of salt or not but I will take it as sure as knowing that the sky is blue and the grass is green.

Grizzly 45

mcgarrett wrote: »

Having read this thread Grizzly it's clear that people posting on it are only too happy to believe rubbish like that.

"A Garda firearm has gone missing" post your stories now and don't let facts or the truth get in the way.

"Handed a gun, a couple of boxes of ammo and off you go"
"the second day seemed to consist of the same routine"

QUOTE]

I think there is a bit of schadenfreude here on our side.:D:D.People in glass houses,practising what you preach and all that.

bravestar

homerhop wrote: »

A certain garda main station not too far from me had 2 members walking along the corridier one evening talking about cups of tea or what ever they do while pottering about happened to be stopped by their sgt and told you and you are going on a firearms course. The station has an annual budget to spend and the course had to be done by somoene. Shipped off up the north west for a couple of days to learn how to use the new firearms that were eventually going to pass down along to the stations.
First days training involved being handed 2 guns, there is your target here is a couple of boxes of ammo off ya go lads. All in all the most they got was about half an hours official training on the first day. The second day seemed to consist of the same routine, arrived given ammo and let off to their own devices. The same 2 fellas arrived back in the station having "compleated" a course in firearms have stated quiet clearly that the probability of them ever using the guns they got to "train" on was slim to zero and the fact that they happened to be the first 2 gob****es that the sgt bumped into was the only reason they were picked.

While that is a funny little story it is also complete S**te. Just in case anyone believed it

homerhop

bravestar wrote: »

While that is a funny little story it is also complete S**te. Just in case anyone believed it

and you know this because? as i have already said i will trust my source on this more that i will take you saying its complete ****e

tac foley

As a furriner I would find it very interesting to learn about just how AGS trains its specialist firearms officers.

Here in UK we share our range facilities with a local county force, and spend a lot of our hard-earned maintenance funds repairing shot-hole damage in the strangest places, as well as picking up the occasional live rounds after they used the range.

Last year we found an elongated and hastily-repaired hole in the ground where what appeared to have been a 12 gauge slug had been accidentally discharged...an attempt to disguise it by scattering loose soil over the top was unsuccessful.

Similar 12 gauge slug holes in the overhanging canopy at the butts was a lot harder to hide, so they didn't bother.

But then, as it is ten feet above the horizontal centreline of any target there, maybe they thought we wouldn't notice.

Me, I'd be a lot happier if Stevie Wonder was the 'police counter-sniper' in any hostage situation that THEY would be attending.

tac

meathstevie

johngalway wrote: »

I wonder do these incidents of, shall we call it, "misplacing" firearms have anything to do with how people value things they get for nothing?

I spent a lot of money on my firearms, and I'm fairly sure I'll never "misplace" any of them.

If the armed Gardai had to leave in a deposit for a firearm at the start of a shift, collect it on return of the firearm, I wonder how many would "misplace" them then?

Don't know about the Gardai John but a lot of police officers elsewhere do exactly that when they sign out a weapon at the start of a shift. They sign an armoury ledger for gun and ammo and they better have a very good explanation if the gun doesn't return in it's original condition and any ammo is unaccounted for. Ultimately it can cost them their job if all isn't right.

bravestar

homerhop wrote: »

and you know this because? as i have already said i will trust my source on this more that i will take you saying its complete ****e

Check your PM.

tac foley wrote: »

As a furriner I would find it very interesting to learn about just how AGS trains its specialist firearms officers.

Here in UK we share our range facilities with a local county force, and spend a lot of our hard-earned maintenance funds repairing shot-hole damage in the strangest places, as well as picking up the occasional live rounds after they used the range.

Last year we found an elongated and hastily-repaired hole in the ground where what appeared to have been a 12 gauge slug had been accidentally discharged...an attempt to disguise it by scattering loose soil over the top was unsuccessful.

Similar 12 gauge slug holes in the overhanging canopy at the butts was a lot harder to hide, so they didn't bother.

But then, as it is ten feet above the horizontal centreline of any target there, maybe they thought we wouldn't notice.

Me, I'd be a lot happier if Stevie Wonder was the 'police counter-sniper' in any hostage situation that THEY would be attending.

tac

I dont think you will find any member of AGS willing to give details of tactical/firearms training that they undergoe or any information regarding Garda procedures, in relation to firearms use/training, on a public internet forum.

Grizzly 45

bravestar wrote: »

I dont think you will find any member of AGS willing to give details of tactical/firearms training or any information regarding procedures on a public internet forum.

Just read up on IPSC and participate in a shoot somwhere outside the republic of Ireland..According to the DOJ and Gardai experts thats on par with any combat/tactical training out there.. Hence its banned in Ireland!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Going by the Irish Times mentioned report,shooting at 25 yards[7.5meters]scoring 95% seems to be part of it ... OH Dear!!!...:D:D:D
Dunno about the falling off the wet sleeper bit and breaking an UZI SMG,if thats part of it too???:D:D
Somthing H&S and your insurance company would crucify a civillian range owner !!!Not to mind the DOJ range inspector signing off on too! I would have thought with our weather that would be a quite normal "tactical" hazard armed Garda officers might encounter on a daily basis????Wet and slippery surfaces?

Ye'll have to come to a 1500 match lads...
Ooops ,sorry!!! that might still be current tactical training.????.:eek:
Well, going by a certain Garda ballistics expert,so saying in many district courts of the land this year to give good reason to refuse previous liscense holders...... It must be !!!:rolleyes::D:D

tac foley

bravestar wrote: »

Check your PM. I dont think you will find any member of AGS willing to give details of tactical/firearms training that they undergoe or any information regarding Garda procedures, in relation to firearms use/training, on a public internet forum.

Sadly, we don't get to hear about the good stuff, only when a lard-assed cop falls off a 'slippery' piece of wood in the rain [now THAT must be unusual in Ireland] and destroys a perfectly good gun by sitting on it, or when another bunch mislay a handgun and 80 [!] rounds of ammunition that surprisingly turns up in exactly the place it is supposed to be after all.

In the first instance I'm amazed he didn't sue Israel Military Industries for making a gun that was painful to land on, and in the second instance I'm even more amazed that anybody actually found out about the loss in the fust place. VERY few events involving police cock-ups ever surface, and with good reason - it's hard to trust a total eejit with a gun, and liable to makign mistales, just like us.

tac, having a quiet snigger.

tac foley

Dear Mr McGarrett - you don't have to answer this on a public forum, but is it true that if you have handled a gun in a sporting sense then you are never going to be able to volunteer your service to the specialist firearms units of AGS?

Over here in UK that is certainly the case - one way of making sure that you can never become a Firearms officer in any capacity is to admit that you shoot for fun and leisure as a hobby.

Here they select people who will probably never have seen a real firearm of any kind for training as specialist firearms officers, and sadly, it shows. That way they can train you to shoot THEIR way. I once watched in stunned amazement as one young lady tried, unsuccessfully, to put a magazine on her MP5K - first upside-down, and then back-to-front. She finally succeeded by holding the gun upside down and matching the hole to the hole.

Needless to say, I kept my gob firmly shut.

tac

mcgarrett

tac foley wrote: »

Dear Mr McGarrett - you don't have to answer this on a public forum, but is it true that if you have handled a gun in a sporting sense then you are never going to be able to volunteer your service to the specialist firearms units of AGS?

tac, the "volunteer your service" has thrown me a bit, but if you're asking would a Garda who has been involved in shooting sports be considered or accepted into an armed unit, the answer is yes and many have.

tac foley

mcgarrett wrote: »

tac, the "volunteer your service" has thrown me a bit, but if you're asking would a Garda who has been involved in shooting sports be considered or accepted into an armed unit, the answer is yes and many have.

Ah, right. Thank you.

Here in UK no police officer who has EVER particpated in any part of any shooting sports would be considered for selection on any kind of firearms-related police activity.

You are not selected for it here - you have to volunteer, and as I noted, if you have an FAC [fiearms certificate] you are automatically barred becoming a police firearms officer.

tac

Grizzly 45

Ah..Like this then????:D:D:D. Dreadful posture for holding a rifle in a tactical situation too..
While we are talking about female PC officers.Somone can make a fortune if they can design a pistol holster for the ladies,that does not require removal from the trousers or belt when they visit the little girls room for a call of nature..Apprently police depts around the world are finding a disproportinate numbers of lost firearms are coming down to under cover plain clothes female officers leaving their firearms in the Ladies.:eek::eek:

BlackSheep38

having just joined boards today and surfing about,
i read through this post which in my opinion is unhelpful to the ordinary shooter and then we wonder why we have problems in the gun owners fraternity with certain garda officers.
(do they not read these topics too and use this thread to judge some of us in gun clubs????????????)

Some of the people here seem to consider that misplacing a gun and a garda slipping on wet wood is news and worthy of a lenghty thread plus a chance to get their own back because maybe they arent allowed to get a elephant gun or whatever.

As i read it the Garda Officer locked a firearm, which he had signed out, into another firearms locker in his office, and then the other officer lost his footing on wet sleepers , which anyone in the DF will agree are lethal and have resulted in plenty of accidents and claims (i know of 2) but not worthy of reporters attention.

and yes i know a few gardai, who do a job that i wouldnt do or like my children to do but I was a member of the DF for a few years and Have been shooting for over 25 yrs (yeah have a 308 12g pump 22 and 9mm which i had problems licencing but thats life)

I have the greatest respect for any person who carries a firearm to protect us against those who would do us wrong.
Not many would do that job and to me some of the comments are unhelpful to us who have to licence guns here in Ireland

johngalway

Welcome to Boards BlackSheep38

In regards to the "misplaced" firearm.

Inordinate delays in processing applications, losing applications - in some cases losing the same application and resubmission multiple times, firearms laws being interpreted at certain districts own biases, at times in contradiction to those laws, having to go to court to be able to pursue your sport, general crankiness, unhelpfulness and down right insulting behaviour on asking for assistance in gun related matter, and other difficulties are why people in this forum highlight the "misplacing" of a Garda firearm.

We're expected to jump through various fire ringed hoops to do what we all love doing. I don't see it as unreasonable that members of the Gardai entrusted with firearms should be held to the same level of expectation. Whether they do or don't read here, and I know they do.

homerhop

BlackSheep38 wrote: »

I have the greatest respect for any person who carries a firearm to protect us against those who would do us wrong.
Not many would do that job and to me some of the comments are unhelpful to us who have to licence guns here in Ireland

Welcome to the shooting forum.

I too have the greatest respect for the ordinary member of the force who have to deal with some of the things that they do. I know more than some how it effects them both physically and mentally.

As for them carrying guns to be quiet honest some of them are not fit to carry a water pistol let alone a live round. I do hope that they read these threads, because it shows them that they are not above scrutiny and how they conduct themselves in dealing with people like yourself who have been shooting for many years is a complete joke. Now you tell me having been in the defence forces for a long time and going into a combat position and someone comes along who knows nothing about the job and starts dictating to you who has been doing it for years that you are not experienced enough, would you trust them? It is the same for us shooters, we have a crowd of gob****es telling people who have more experience in firearm use and handling that they are not fit to hold a licence.

Grizzly 45

I have the greatest respect for any person who carries a firearm to protect us against those who would do us wrong.
Not many would do that job and to me some of the comments are unhelpful to us who have to licence guns here in Ireland

There you are under a very serious misapprehension friend!![Welcome aboard BTW].NO police force is under ANY obligation to protect ANY citizen in the Western World!Their primary function is to simply uphold the law and keep the peace. It has been judged on in courts the length and breath of the West including Ireland on that point.Belive it or not ....even here in Ireland,YOU are responsible for your own saftey and wellbeing,not the Gardai or Army.
As a matter of fact I would have gladly voulentered for the Garda Reserve,unfortunatly I am proscribed from doing so due to my profession.

Also as a few others have pointed out,they are not above critizism if they are preaching about firearms saftey and making liscensed gun owners jump thru all sorts of hoops and loops,which also cost quite a bit of money and time in the district and high courts,and they then turn around and have a very casual attitude to firearms,their use and storage,and they would be the first to immediately pounce on "mere civillians" for such gross infractions.

Half-cocked

tac foley wrote: »

Similar 12 gauge slug holes in the overhanging canopy at the butts was a lot harder to hide, so they didn't bother.

But then, as it is ten feet above the horizontal centreline of any target there, maybe they thought we wouldn't notice.

tac

:eek::eek::eek:

Did these slugs go right through the canopy? If so, where did they end up?