Another Garda firearm gone missing.

daveywavey2010

I know nothing about guns and I won't pretend to! But I will tell you this...I was in my friends garage when he was valeting a detective's car about two years ago. He pulled something out from under the passenger seat which was a revolver in a hoslter, fully loaded and ready to go. The thing looked like it had been gathering cobwebs there for a few months at least.

tac foley

Half-cocked wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek:

Did these slugs go right through the canopy? If so, where did they end up?

Yessir, clean though - they must have ended up in the hillside on which our gallery range is constructed - no harm done.

Although THAT, of course, is NOT the point.

tac

Rew

tac foley wrote: »

Dear Mr McGarrett - you don't have to answer this on a public forum, but is it true that if you have handled a gun in a sporting sense then you are never going to be able to volunteer your service to the specialist firearms units of AGS?

I've shot with and chatted to a few AGS guys who were on the club range firing their sporting firearms. Some were also involved with firearms, firearms instructing within the AGS. I know of Gardai who dint get their pistol licences back like a lot of the rest of us.

I think we forget around here that the real problem is at a very senior level and at the DoJ not generally with the rank and file. Lack of support and training for the rank and file at the counter doesn't help of course.

bravestar

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

There you are under a very serious misapprehension friend!![Welcome aboard BTW].NO police force is under ANY obligation to protect ANY citizen in the Western World!Their primary function is to simply uphold the law and keep the peace. It has been judged on in courts the length and breath of the West including Ireland on that point.Belive it or not ....even here in Ireland,YOU are responsible for your own saftey and wellbeing,not the Gardai or Army.
As a matter of fact I would have gladly voulentered for the Garda Reserve,unfortunatly I am proscribed from doing so due to my profession.

Also as a few others have pointed out,they are not above critizism if they are preaching about firearms saftey and making liscensed gun owners jump thru all sorts of hoops and loops,which also cost quite a bit of money and time in the district and high courts,and they then turn around and have a very casual attitude to firearms,their use and storage,and they would be the first to immediately pounce on "mere civillians" for such gross infractions.

AGS ar not under any obligation to protect any citizen, where do you get this Grizzly? Through your own admission you are not a member of AGS, so how would you know what members are obliged to do?

You have used alot of "they"s. I assume you are tarring all members of AGS with the same brush or am I wrong?

daveywavey2010 wrote: »

I know nothing about guns and I won't pretend to! But I will tell you this...I was in my friends garage when he was valeting a detective's car about two years ago. He pulled something out from under the passenger seat which was a revolver in a hoslter, fully loaded and ready to go. The thing looked like it had been gathering cobwebs there for a few months at least.

This seems to be turning into a very Anti Garda thread. While I'm all for discussion I think it's going a bit far. Why dont we also start a thread for every irresponsible thing firearms owners have done, we can all chime in with our stories and throw as much mud as we can.

fish slapped

I don't like mills and boom books , so I don't read them !!

bravestar

fish slapped wrote: »

I don't like mills and boom books , so I don't read them !!

Good for you.

homerhop

While I'm all for discussion I think it's going a bit far

I couldnt agree more.
I would love if the powers that be would come on and discuss a few points with us like.....
A set of guide lines were issued to every super which were there to treat everyone the same yet they dont.
Why are they not dealing with everyone on an individual basis instead of sending out the same refusal letter to everyone.
How can they manage to lose so many applications.
How can some supers be on record saying they will not issue silencers because they dont like them.
How can they treat people with such contempt when they go to meet and discuss things when all we want to do is make things go as smoothly as possible for all parties?

fish slapped

homerhop wrote: »

A set of guide lines were issued to every super which were there to treat everyone the same yet they dont.

You see thats the problem their only "GUIDELINES" so the super can still do pretty much what he likes!!

firefly08

AGS ar not under any obligation to protect any citizen, where do you get this Grizzly? Through your own admission you are not a member of AGS, so how would you know what members are obliged to do?

Is it not true then? He is certainly right as far as the US is concerned - there's even a book about it (not that that makes it true, but it is common knowledge anyway)

Why dont we also start a thread for every irresponsible thing firearms owners have done, we can all chime in with our stories and throw as much mud as we can.

Here you go. 15 pages and counting

Bananaman

bravestar wrote: »

........This seems to be turning into a very Anti Garda thread. While I'm all for discussion I think it's going a bit far......

I agree - while the Gardai in the original report in the papers no doubt made eejits of themselves and in a very public way - that does not mean it applies to them all.

Most Gardai have nothing to do with Firearms licensing - unless they happen to be the poor one who happens to be at the desk and takes your application - and hence your ire for the following months - even though they have no input into the process bar having started it.

The Decisions are made by the Minister/Commissioner/Chief Super and Supers and there is no doubt, as evidenced by many, that it is a matter of policy, rather than application of the legislation.

I only know a few Gardai who target shoot (pistol)- some of them also have a firearm at work - but not all - some of them are now retired - and they can all shoot - some of them are the best shots in the country. Many have been refused their licenses which prevents them from continuing with civilian target shooting and puts them in a very awkward situation where their only avenue is to appeal a decision made by their superior and hence ruin their career. I do not envy them that decision - for me I can say I would not give up my sport without a fight but there is no side effect of my winning or losing that fight bar financial cost - their job is on the line.

We have all heard the horror stories of "a fella told me that he know a fella whose cousin was on a garda range once and wait til you hear....."
I have no doubt that some of these stories are true and that some of them have bells on.

In an ideal world, individual Gardai would make it their business - in civvies - to go and see their local target shooting range. They would benefit from the strict range etiquette on civilian ranges and would also have a better understanding of the types of people involved and hence remove some of the 'mystique' felt by Gardai for civilian target shooters. One day they may be the Super of Chief Super themselves and would be able to make an educated decision rather than having their opinions given to them by memo.

B'Man

senordingdong

Surprised this actually made it to media.

I wonder if more firearms go missing and they just don't tell the press.

Sparks

firefly08 wrote: »

Here you go. 15 pages and counting

One of the first threads we ever had on the forum, in fact. You don't get safer by pretending accidents don't happen, you get safer by studying them, publicising them, and making sure everyone else knows what caused them and how to avoid them. Some folks don't like that. **** 'em. I'd rather they were annoyed than I had an extra hole in me because of a preventable accident.

tac foley

I'll go along with the 'let's stop picking on the Gardai', since, unlike you guys, I have no ax to grind over here in mainland UK.

You'll have noticed, maybe, that I've not let the mainland UK poleece forces off the hook, and indeed, there are some truly horrific stories that happen to be true - officers shot dead in training, officers shot by instructors in a classroom and so on and officers modifying furniture and ceilings in the locker-room while demonstrating 'safe' unloading procedures.

Arra, these people are only human and humans get it wrong. And when other humans get it wrong, other humans often find it amusing to find out about it.

Tragedies aside, does anyone here have a story to tell against themselves that is actually funny, rather than sad or sombre?

Like travelling the length of the country to shoot, and having the wrong bolt/ammunition/whatever?

Or, as I did once, arriving on the right day, but the wrong month?

tac

sfakiaman

When I was sixteen and living away from home, I went into my landlords sitting room, his Luger pistol was on the table and I picked it up, aimed across the room and squeezed the trigger. There was the loudest click I ever heard in my life, he asked what I would have done if it was loaded. I have never since picked up a firearm without asking first and checking the mag and chamber.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=bravestar;68458240]AGS ar not under any obligation to protect any citizen, where do you get this Grizzly? Through your own admission you are not a member of AGS, so how would you know what members are obliged to do?

Well simply because Gardai of various ranks have told me so over the years...One a Det Sgt [RIP],one an retired inspector who was teaching prospective security gaurds on an Anco training course[That long ago] and one a retired Super who at the time was running his own security company...I will assume they knew their stuff??If that has changed ,then I will be only too happy to retract the previous post.
And will look forward to a Garda posted at the end of my driveway to protect me and mine and my property from harm or theft.:)Seeing that my "Human rights "will then be protected.

You have used alot of "they"s. I assume you are tarring all members of AGS with the same brush or am I wrong?

Absolutely NOT!!!
I like the many others here have no problem by and large with the people on street level ,who are actually doing the day to day work of trying to keep law and order.
What I and no doubt 99% of others DO have a big problem is with top brass whose beat is now a comfy chair and office,who arbitarialy decide who and who shall not be granted their favour of a liscense.Or even will they grant us supplicants an audience in their presence.Where in my case I have never met a more rude,,arrogant and ignorant person!I know we all eff and blind a lot these days,me included,but I would have expected more decorum form a higher ranking senior officer!! He might have been an officer ,but he certainly was no gentleman!!

Not to mind a belif that district court rulings in favour of the gunowner should and do not apply to them at all,and that the law can be twisted to THEIR favour by hook or crook,and damn the truth.:mad:
Not to mind meddlesome ministers,who have a seemingly chip on their shoulders about civillian gunowners.

This seems to be turning into a very Anti Garda thread. While I'm all for discussion I think it's going a bit far. Why dont we also start a thread for every irresponsible thing firearms owners have done, we can all chime in with our stories and throw as much mud as we can.

What??That faults can be pointed out in our police force??Be a very sad day and a dangerous one that one cant critique or have a laugh at a public body,then we are living in a police state dictatorship.

I think it is more that we are having a chortle at people who are going on all the time to us about saftey and deadliness of firearmes,or that only a so called elite can handle certain types of guns safley and are then seen to be somtimes doing the exact opposite of what they preach or claim.
Called unstuffing shirts.Irresponsible civillian gun ownership?Certainly it happens too,but if you can post it please do.It's not mud slinging.It's called learning from the mistakes of others.It's less costly and painful.

Keep it country!:) [as ye lads say around here]

Later
From Firefly post on the US.There are a whole bunch of US Supreme Court judgements that police are not required to "protect and serve"
Castle Rock Vs Gonzales, Warren Vs DC,Bowers Vs DeVito,South Vs Maryland.For those who want to look them up.

Bananaman

In my opinion - this thread has drifted away from anything to do with shooting and is now a philosophical discussion on what the purpose of a police force is.

Whereas there may be some vague association with shooting I cannot see it - especially in a country with a - largely - unarmed force

I'm sure the mods will kick it back onto the path or onto another path shortly.

B'Man

Greenacre

Anybody new to this forum, listed under SPORT, would on reading this thread be justified in thinking we are a bunch of bitter crackpots NOT crackshots

mcgarrett

Bananaman wrote: »

In my opinion - this thread has drifted away from anything to do with shooting and is now a philosophical discussion on what the purpose of a police force is.

Whereas there may be some vague association with shooting I cannot see it - especially in a country with a - largely - unarmed force

I'm sure the mods will kick it back onto the path or onto another path shortly.

B'Man

To bring it back on topic, I don't believe that weapon was really missing, I think it was unknowingly attached to a detective or traffic man.

Both types of animals tend to disappear for protracted periods of time when there's work to be done

sfakiaman

mcgarrett wrote: »

To bring it back on topic, I don't believe that weapon was really missing, I think it was unknowingly attached to a detective or traffic man.

Both types of animals tend to disappear for protracted periods of time when there's work to be done

Probably trying to see if they could shoot through the hole in the donut.

.243

sfakiaman wrote: »

Probably trying to see if they could shoot through the hole in the donut.

chief wigan spings to mind