Is there such a thing like Landlord References?

daigo75

Hi all,
I'm about to (forcibly) come out from a difficult tenancy, which is about to be abruptly terminated . Considering that this is the second time I find myself dealing with a difficult landlord (I also had friends with similar bad experiences), I wonder if there's such a thing like "landlord references" from previous tenants. At the end of the day, tenants are the paying customer, so they should be more than entitled to check to whom they are giving their money.

If such thing doesn't exist yet, I believe we should seriously considering to think about creating one, it should not be too difficult. I'd like to have some opinion about the matter, I don't believe I'm the only one who ever thought about this issue. Thanks.

3DataModem

I'm a landlord AND a tenant, and always thought this would be an excellent idea. Sort of a "ratemylandlord.ie" type thing.

lisasimps

def great idea, it could be done through daft.ie

daigo75

Ok, then I should start implementing a website for it. Honestly, I was afraid that most comments would have been of the type "you can be sued for that", it's a sentence I hear quite often.

Xiney

When we moved out of our last apartment I posted pretty much the exact same thing :P

I'm not up to date on modern code though so I didn't bother.

Still, when you're live I've got three landlords to add! (one positive, one negative and one very positive!)

28064212

daigo75 wrote: »

Ok, then I should start implementing a website for it. Honestly, I was afraid that most comments would have been of the type "you can be sued for that", it's a sentence I hear quite often.

You can be sued for that. The owner of the website would be responsible for anything put up, and if they can't prove it's true (even if it is), they can be sued for libel.

Not saying it's a bad idea, just be aware of what you're opening yourself up to

folan

I would contact threshold and/or prtb first. I would worry about the

"you can be sued for that"

bit.

Though i agree, its a great idea. Contacting threshold might be able to give you some guidlines etc

Xiney

28064212 wrote: »

You can be sued for that. The owner of the website would be responsible for anything put up, and if they can't prove it's true (even if it is), they can be sued for libel.

Not saying it's a bad idea, just be aware of what you're opening yourself up to

then how do websites like whoseview.ie get around that?

28064212

Xiney wrote: »

then how do websites like whoseview.ie get around that?

My understanding* is that if the site is made aware of objectionable content it must be removed within a "reasonable timeframe", otherwise they can be sued for libel/defamation

* Not a lawyer

Xiney

so then this site would be subject to the same rules, no?

also, I had a boss threaten to sue tripadvisor and they basically told him to sling his hook :P Might be worth getting someone in another country to be the official head of the site?

daigo75

28064212 wrote: »

You can be sued for that. The owner of the website would be responsible for anything put up, and if they can't prove it's true (even if it is), they can be sued for libel.

Not saying it's a bad idea, just be aware of what you're opening yourself up to

I don't think I'm actually opening myself to anything, the platform would not be an "open for everybody, free to rant", it will be strictly moderated and everything would be reviewed before publication.

Anyway, I find ridiculous how often people bother to go to a lawyer for any single thing, it looks like the US!

28064212

Xiney wrote: »

so then this site would be subject to the same rules, no?

As far as I know, yes. For example, the charter change in AH was for this reason - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056026459

Xiney wrote: »

also, I had a boss threaten to sue tripadvisor and they basically told him to sling his hook :P Might be worth getting someone in another country to be the official head of the site?

Was told to sling his hook by who? Tripadvisor or a solicitor? If someone told me they were going to sue me, I'd probably tell them to f*** off too, doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to successfully sue me

28064212

daigo75 wrote: »

I don't think I'm actually opening myself to anything, the platform would not be an "open for everybody, free to rant", it will be strictly moderated and everything would be reviewed before publication.

Anyway, I find ridiculous how often people bother to go to a lawyer for any single thing, it looks like the US!

Problem with pre-moderation is that it ties it in to the owner even more strongly. If it's pre-moderated, then the owner is officially publishing the claim in the post. It would be the equivalent of the Irish Times carrying a libelous and defamatory claim in their "letters" page, with the same legal repercussions.

While I agree that we are too litigious a society as a whole, defamation is not something to be taken lightly. I still think your website would be a good idea, it's just not something to jump into without a lot of forethought

daigo75

28064212 wrote: »

As far as I know, yes. For example, the charter change in AH was for this reason - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056026459

Thanks for the link. I agree perfectly with the rules; in fact, my idea is to allow people to express their opinion and share their good/bad experiences. People would have to be named (both tenants and landlords), this is the most delicate part. However, it will also prevent anonymous "bashing", which is not the intention. Besides, parties would be allowed to reply and request any information about them to be removed, if they so desire.

To make an example, in an extreme case a tenant could write:
I've been renting the place X from Mr. Smith and I found a leak. Mr Smith never bothered fixing it, so I had to pay the plumber myself (a million Euro!).

This sounds quite acceptable to me, it's quite similar to eBay feedback. Of course, I wouldn't allow a posting like "Mr Smith is an a$$...".

Xiney

28064212 wrote: »

Was told to sling his hook by who? Tripadvisor or a solicitor?

both :P

lostaccount

This reminded me of the case brought against the site rate your solicitor where a solicitor who had bad comments made about her brought a case of defamation against the owner.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/libel-action-may-shut-rate-your-solicitor-website-78240.html

A quick snapshot of the article;

THE controversial website which invites people to rate their lawyers is at the centre of a groundbreaking libel action that could see the internet portal shut down.
A Co Clare man, alleged to have defamed a lawyer by posting offensive remarks on the internet, has been told by a High Court judge that he must do all in his power to have them removed from the website.
Dublin-based barrister Jayne Maguire claimed John Gill, of Drumline, Newmarket on Fergus, had posted defamatory statements about her "of the most offensive and damaging nature both personally and professionally" on the website www.rateyoursolicitor.com.
The barrister is seeking damages for defamation and breach of privacy and an interlocutory injunction restraining Mr Gill from continuing with publication of the statements on the site which she says is operated and administered by him.
The High Court action is the opening salvo against online libel in the Irish courts and may extend to America.

daigo75

lostaccount wrote: »

This reminded me of the case brought against the site rate your solicitor where a solicitor who had bad comments made about her brought a case of defamation against the owner.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/libel-action-may-shut-rate-your-solicitor-website-78240.html

I checked the website, but I must say that some comments are, honestly, inappropriate. I searched for the solicitor in question, and comments like "very very very very very STUPID" are pointless and, I agree, offensive. In my case, I'm thinking more of a platform where people can express their opinion and MUST motivate it, without falling into rude or offensive language.

Now, if a solicitor (or a landlord, or anyone else), would try to sue anybody because of a comment like "I had a bad experience as a tenant, Mr Smith refused to fix a leak and I had the house flooded", I'm pretty sure he would waste his time.

meglome

daigo75 wrote: »

I checked the website, but I must say that some comments are, honestly, inappropriate. I searched for the solicitor in question, and comments like "very very very very very STUPID" are pointless and, I agree, offensive. In my case, I'm thinking more of a platform where people can express their opinion and MUST motivate it, without falling into rude or offensive language.

Now, if a solicitor (or a landlord, or anyone else), would try to sue anybody because of a comment like "I had a bad experience as a tenant, Mr Smith refused to fix a leak and I had the house flooded", I'm pretty sure he would waste his time.

host the site in the states and I think they'll have a real problem stopping you.

WhoseView: Michael

meglome wrote: »

host the site in the states and I think they'll have a real problem stopping you.

Hi Guys,

As we were mentioned in this post, I hope you don't mind me replying. First off, the above Quote is off no relevance. Our site is hosted in the UK, but our legal advise is that we are still subject to Irish Law.

It's no secret that all high profile review sites get threatening emails of legal action unless a review is removed etc etc. WhoseView.ie is no different and in 14 months since going live, 5 such emails have come through from various local businesses. This is quiet small, when you consider our members have posted over 18,500 reviews in that period.

We have a strict code of practice in such instances, which I won't go into here as such advise is not cheap. Lets just say 4 of the 5 reviews remain as actual factual evidence was obtained, causing the businesses in question to realise that their treats had absolutely no grounds for defamation etc. The review which was removed was clearly an infringement of our own rules http://www.whoseview.ie/pages/terms-and-conditions.html

I hope the above helps.

Rgs

Michael

daigo75

WhoseView: Michael wrote: »

Hi Guys,

We have a strict code of practice in such instances, which I won't go into here as such advise is not cheap. Lets just say 4 of the 5 reviews remain as actual factual evidence was obtained, causing the businesses in question to realise that their treats had absolutely no grounds for defamation etc. The review which was removed was clearly an infringement of our own rules http://www.whoseview.ie/pages/terms-and-conditions.html

Thanks for your comment. I especially agree with the two parts I highlighted. A strict code of practice is absolutely a must with such type of website. Also, I agree that some legal advice is required.
In my case I'm not a lawyer and I'm not familiar (thanks god) with Irish law. Anybody who has such knowledge and who would like to volunteer is more than welcome.