Best speed achieveable over WiFi ?

dodzy

I'm getting approx 18-20Megs p/s over wifi - about 27-28 hard wired. ( UPC 3) meg ). Not complaining about the speed ( at this time ) but just wondering is how would I go aboult exploiting faster speeds over WiFi ?

jor el

Wifi is no good for fast speeds, it simply can't handle it. You're doing well to even get 18Mbps on it.

tman

Buy an 802.11n router and dongle?

watty

the 802.11n is only faster if:
1) ONLY 802.11n devices on the network
2) All devices very close (same room)
3) No other nearby Video Senders, WiFi etc as 802.11n needs almost entire band for full speed.

20Mbps is about max for 802.11g, and the 802.11n quickly drops to this speed at any distance.

You might get more on 802.11n as it can do more than 40Mbps under good conditions. But EVERYTHING must be 802.11n

dodzy

Thanks Watty, your input is always appreciated. 18mbps it is so

Couldnt be arsed going down the n road for all equipment and the low distance threshold is a real bummer.

watty wrote: »

the 802.11n is only faster if:
1) ONLY 802.11n devices on the network
2) All devices very close (same room)
3) No other nearby Video Senders, WiFi etc as 802.11n needs almost entire band for full speed.

20Mbps is about max for 802.11g, and the 802.11n quickly drops to this speed at any distance.

You might get more on 802.11n as it can do more than 40Mbps under good conditions. But EVERYTHING must be 802.11n

I get around 20.69 megs on speedtest on my iPhone 4 from the Cisco UPC 30/3meg.

crawler

Also selecting non overlapping wifi channels makes a difference - such as channel 13 - problem is, if everyone does this, then channel 13 becomes congested

Watty - I get about twice the above on non overalpping with good "n" client card...more or less throughout the house.

Voodu Child

watty wrote: »

But EVERYTHING must be 802.11n

Not if the router is simultaneous dual-band.

watty

Crawler.. As a minimum n will use 3 channels. At 250Mbps raw, it uses the entire band.
many devices have inherent USAness and won't do 12 and 13

Dual band is good. However I've seen a lot of stuff claiming to be 802.11n with 2.4Ghz only. Also the range of 5.8GHz can be savagely bad. There are also people with 54Mbps 802.11a and FWALA on 5.8MHz. So the 5.8MHz isn't always a solution.

I have TurboG 108Mbps built-in on laptop with an 802.11a/b/g card and same on the Router. The router though isn't MIMO. It can only do one of the above at a time. I did have a Dlink router that could do 54Mbps 802.11a on 5.8GHz and Turbo G 108Mbps on 2.4GHz at the same time. Unfortuately it wasn't reliable.

For ONE client live only... Real file transfer speeds (approximate):
2Mbps (802.11, no suffix) raw is about 0.6Mbps Duplex, or near 0.8Mbps "one way"
11Mbps (802.11b) raw is about 3Mbps Duplex, or near 4Mbps "one way"
54Mbps (802.11g ) raw is about 15Mbps Duplex, or near 20Mbps "one way".
108Mbps (Turbo G) about 30Mbps Duplex, or near 40Mbps "one way"
250Mbps (802.11n) about 75Mbps Duplex, or 100Mbps "one way". But only with perfect signal and short range. Quickly reaches 802.11g speeds.

WiFi between rooms can quickly be degraded down to 5Mbps raw speed. About 1.5Mbps duplex or 3Mbps one way ...

With 5 active simultaneous users you get possibly as poor as 1/10th speed. WiFi is like shared Coax Cable ethernet, except sometimes worse. 100Mbps cabled ethernet nowadays may use a switch rather than hub with gigabits of internal bandwidth. 100Mbps Cat5e with a switch makes even 802.11n MIMO dual band systems look stupid. As for 1G ethernet on Cat5e with switch, you are looking at maybe 100x capacity of 802.11n with 5 users!

The makers quote the raw peak transmission rate without any protocol overhead. You might as well claim you can get 42Mbps from 3G mobile as claim 802.11n does 250Mbps

n97 mini

watty wrote: »

Crawler.. As a minimum n will use 3 channels. At 250Mbps raw, it uses the entire band.

You may need to explain this. My 802.11n router in 2.4GHz uses two channels, (currently 6 and 10) (which spill over into adjacent channels), and I am able to max out the 100 meg wired connection from the router.

watty wrote: »

Also the range of 5.8GHz can be savage.

Can be, but generally isn't. Usually 5GHz has a shorter range as shorter wavelength has less penetrating power.

My router is dual band and parts of my house are out of 5GHz coverage but work on 2.4GHz. Others have documented this too.

watty wrote: »

250Mbps (802.11n)

As far as I am aware 250Mbps is not an 11n data rate.

Valid data rates are here.

watty

Savage as in bad

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#802.11g

if you want NO interference betweeen 802.11g in same place you can only use channels 1, 6 and 11 in USA. That's the whole band used.

Since we have 12 & 13 also we can could have slight interference and use 1, 5, 9 and 13
Bascially 802.11g uses slightly more than 3 channels.

Peak speed with 40MHz channel of 802.11n is a fantasy 600Mbps. With 20MHz it's about 260Mbps. Not achievable in practice.

The link you gave has various modes that give "about" 250Mbps. It wasn't indended to be an exact figure. It's the misleading figure on much packaging.

Hellrazer

On a related note.

Has anyone ever used those homeplug things and whats the max achievable speed using them.

Got my UPC on Saturday but notice that the wifi on that cisco 4325 router is terrible.

Wired full 15mb,wifi 10-11--If I get the router in line of sight of the pc I get 14+

Cat5 is not an option so Im thinking of getting me a set of those homeplug adapters.

Advice appreciated.

jor el

Hellrazer wrote: »

On a related note.

Has anyone ever used those homeplug things and whats the max achievable speed using them.

I use a set I bought in Lidl, and I get a good speed out of them. Haven't done a speed test across the LAN, so I don't know how close to the 85Mbps rating they actually do.

There can be issues with them though, and they are never going to be an Ethernet equivalent. You can try them, but they may or may not work for you. They work as a pair of radio transceivers, and can cause and suffer from interference.

maggy_thatcher

Hellrazer wrote: »

On a related note.

Has anyone ever used those homeplug things and whats the max achievable speed using them.

Got my UPC on Saturday but notice that the wifi on that cisco 4325 router is terrible.

Wired full 15mb,wifi 10-11--If I get the router in line of sight of the pc I get 14+

Cat5 is not an option so Im thinking of getting me a set of those homeplug adapters.

Advice appreciated.

I've a pair of them (200Mb/s ones) -- I haven't done a speed test, but I've streamed 1080p video (h.264) over them from a PC to a TV, which was good enough for me (that's what I bought them for). It does depend a lot on your house wiring - the newer the better, and ideally have them both on the same circuit (going through the fuse box across circuits does work, but it does reduce effectiveness).

watty

Try harder to think how to run UTP Cat5e or Shielded Cat5e. Gives a real 1000Mbps. The so called Power line Ethernet can be as slow as 5Mbps for 200Mbps variety. The newer "faster" 1Gbps models may go no faster as they are Transmitters. They also interfere with (and are interfered by) FM Radio and VHF mobile

The homeplugs may actually be causing huge interference to Radio, be interfering with DSL and easily affected by CFL lights, chargers, PCs etc.

They are only getting CE mark by a loophole in Regulations and may even be illegal. They are really transmitters. They will even work with one on extension cable on UPS and no direct connection. See http://www.techtir.ie/forum/homeplug-plt-comtrend

Cat5e is ALWAYS an option. You can run screened version even buried outdoors. 100m per segment. You can use a 4 or 5 post 1G ethernet switch up to 3 times to extend to 4x 100m segments. It's a lot easier to run than TV coax for Aerial, cable or Satellite.

Newer wiring or older wiring makes no difference. Only distance and local interference affects performance as these are really transmitters. Nor does the Fuse Box or Meter "filter" it. Purely distance limited.

Hellrazer

watty wrote: »

Cat5e is ALWAYS an option.

You dont know Mrs Hellrazer :D:D

maggy_thatcher

watty wrote: »

The homeplugs may actually be causing huge interference to Radio, be interfering with DSL and easily affected by CFL lights, chargers, PCs etc.

Each home is different - as such, if you do decide to get some, I'd recommend going to a bricks-and-mortar shop to get them, so you can take it back easier if it doesn't work in your environment. I've had no issues with interference on any channel - we also have a dual-band 802.11n router that is still operating pretty well. DSL is unaffected even though the modem is sitting right next to one of the plugs and the entire house is lit up with CFLs (but they're on a different circuit). The frequency it operates at is in the HAM frequency band, so some amateur radio people may be affected, but I haven't seen any big aerials about that it would impact.

watty wrote: »

Cat5e is ALWAYS an option. You can run screened version even buried outdoors. 100m per segment. You can use a 4 or 5 post 1G ethernet switch up to 3 times to extend to 4x 100m segments. It's a lot easier to run than TV coax for Aerial, cable or Satellite.

It's always an option in the same way that it's always possible to build a motorway wherever you build an R road - it can be a lot more trouble, messier and/or expensive (as well as overkill depending on what you want to use it for). For me it would involve a substantial amount of directing the cabling through several walls, then plaster it all back together again. Compare that to step 1 buy two plugs, step 2 plug them in - and you can see why Powerline has some substantial advantages. I'd love to wire up the house with Cat5 or Cat6, but it's just too difficult to do tidily. I may look into doing it in the future, but for the time being at least, it's not a runner.

watty wrote: »

Newer wiring or older wiring makes no difference. Only distance and local interference affects performance as these are really transmitters. Nor does the Fuse Box or Meter "filter" it. Purely distance limited.

The fuse box doesn't filter it, but it does add substantial distance - as you now have to go the length of circuit A and B instead of just circuit A. I take it back about the old wiring -- I was misinformed on that one (it was more that older wiring often used longer runs than newer wiring).

watty

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Each home is different - as such, if you do decide to get some, I'd recommend going to a bricks-and-mortar shop to get them, so you can take it back easier if it doesn't work in your environment. I've had no issues with interference on any channel - we also have a dual-band 802.11n router that is still operating pretty well. DSL is unaffected even though the modem is sitting right next to one of the plugs and the entire house is lit up with CFLs (but they're on a different circuit). The frequency it operates at is in the HAM frequency band, so some amateur radio people may be affected, but I haven't seen any big aerials about that it would impact.

Rubbish. In fact it affects the Broadcast bands below 30MHz and CB far far more than Amateur radio on most models. Some Models affect "Ham" bands as much. The better models actually "notch out" ham bands (though poorly).

As far as "ethernet over power" the lighting is NOT a different circuit and actually the lighting wiring due to its loops to light switches (without an earth wire or neutral) radiates most of the interference. If you plug in CFLs, chargers or PC PSUs that are at the legal limit for Interference, the Power Networking adaptors won't work unless they are transmitting illegally above the legal interference limits. They are Wide Band transmitters allegedly running just below the legal interference limit. But due to a "loophole" most makers test without data! So when data is running they are above the legal limit for "interference".


Newer higher speed models affect up to 200MHz. That's FM , Mobile and even potentially Marine and Aeronautical.

As more of these are added the noise level in a Neighbourhood builds up.

What they DON'T affect is TV, WiFi and DAB. Only the highest speed newer models affect FM Radio.

These are cynically exploiting loop holes in regulations and Dozy Regulators. They have been explicitly banned in some places. They are also dishonestly marketed and in 90% + of cases people are just too lazy to fit cheaper superior Cat5e cable.

It's irresponsible to promote them.

n97 mini

watty wrote: »

Try harder to think how to run UTP Cat5e or Shielded Cat5e. Gives a real 1000Mbps.

Two Modern PCs via a gigabit switch get a real 260Mbps. Both cards have TOEs and jumbo frames in use.

maggy_thatcher

watty wrote: »

Rubbish. In fact it affects the Broadcast bands below 30MHz and CB far far more than Amateur radio on most models. Some Models affect "Ham" bands as much.

It operates at a frequency range of 2MHz-30MHz - several of the HAM bands are in there. Anyway - looking at Comreg, almost the entire range of 2MHz-30MHz is allowed to be used by "Short Range Devices" -- which is exactly what PowerLine is.

watty wrote: »

Newer higher speed models affect up to 200MHz. That's FM , Mobile and even potentially Marine and Aeronautical.


As more of these are added the noise level in a Neighbourhood builds up.

What they DON'T affect is TV, WiFi and DAB.

I'm still using an older one, so can't comment on whether or not they're good or bad.

watty wrote: »

These are cynically exploiting loop holes in regulations and Dozy Regulators. They have been explicitly banned in some places. They are also dishonestly marketed and in 90% + of cases people are just too lazy to fit cheaper superior Cat5e cable.

It's irresponsible to promote them.

It's not necessarily laziness - in a lot of cases it's messier and more expensive, in some cases not possible (e.g. rented accomodation). My original plan was to use 802.11n -- it could barely cope with streaming youtube content, let alone something approaching decent picture quality, due to the layout of my house. I looked at the remaining options -- Powerline plugs for €80 all in, or €20 of cabling, €50 in new plaster, €40 in paint, who knows how much in labour costs in hiding that cabling (I'm no good with plaster!)...it all added up to a huge cost disparity. PoE is a legal, safe and simple solution...until someone manages to persuade ComReg that they can't be used here, I'll continue to promote them where suitable (if the house can easily be cabled, I'd always recommend cabling).

As for marketing - 90% of their marketing campaign is "here's an easy way to connect your network together without new wiring" - what's dishonest about that?

watty

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

It operates at a frequency range of 2MHz-30MHz - several of the HAM bands are in there. Anyway - looking at Comreg, almost the entire range of 2MHz-30MHz is allowed to be used by "Short Range Devices" -- which is exactly what PowerLine is.

No, they are NOT certified as SRDs. The whole of 2MHz to 30MHz is not allowed for SRD, only spot frequencies, certain powers and it must be tested and approved as such.

They are only tested as Office Equipment. Not SRDs. They undergo no Transmitter testing at all.