Getting Tortoises ready for hibernation:

pete2009

Is any one currently getting their tortoise(s) ready for hibernation?

I have 2 Russian tortoises (male and female) and would be keen to share and hear opinions and advice.

I bought them in July, so this is their first time getting ready for hibernation with me.

Both are 5 years old, and to the best of my knowledge, they have been hibernated before.

I bought them from Pet World, and they appeared to have been very well looked after, fed, bathed etc.

They eat a well balanced diet that I pick for them daily, dandelion, clover, heather,bindweeds, hawkbits etc, supplemented by grated cabbage and carrot.

They are slowing down now, sleeping longer. At the moment They come out of their crate (they live in the house),sometime between 11am and 1pm, depending on room temperature.

At the moment, they wont start eating until they have warmed up in the natural heat of the room. They can start eating from 12 noon onwards, and then go inactive at about 2 pm or so, and might graze a little bit more up until 6pm or so.

At 6pm they would have a daily bath.

I am assuming at this point, my next plan is to stop feeding them for 2 weeks, using no artificial light to keep them warm, bath them daily and then find a suitable place for them to be hibernated.

Im still scratching my head as to where to hibernate them? In a fridge? Out in the shed?

Any advice and guidance gratefully appreciated...and plase do not hesitate to tell me if Im doing anything wrong from the above description.

Many thanks....

lrushe

pete2009 wrote: »

Is any one currently getting their tortoise(s) ready for hibernation?

I have 2 Russian tortoises (male and female) and would be keen to share and hear opinions and advice.

I bought them in July, so this is their first time getting ready for hibernation with me.

Both are 5 years old, and to the best of my knowledge, they have been hibernated before.

I bought them from Pet World, and they appeared to have been very well looked after, fed, bathed etc.

They eat a well balanced diet that I pick for them daily, dandelion, clover, heather,bindweeds, hawkbits etc, supplemented by grated cabbage and carrot.

They are slowing down now, sleeping longer. At the moment They come out of their crate (they live in the house),sometime between 11am and 1pm, depending on room temperature.

At the moment, they wont start eating until they have warmed up in the natural heat of the room. They can start eating from 12 noon onwards, and then go inactive at about 2 pm or so, and might graze a little bit more up until 6pm or so.

At 6pm they would have a daily bath.

I am assuming at this point, my next plan is to stop feeding them for 2 weeks, using no artificial light to keep them warm, bath them daily and then find a suitable place for them to be hibernated.

Im still scratching my head as to where to hibernate them? In a fridge? Out in the shed?

Any advice and guidance gratefully appreciated...and plase do not hesitate to tell me if Im doing anything wrong from the above description.

Many thanks....

Hi,
I have a 5 year old Russian for the past 3 years. The generally rule is never to hibernate a 'new' tortoise ie. new to you in the first year you have it as you don't know first hand it's health history and tortoise are v.good at hiding illness, they need to be 100% healthy in order to survive hibernation.
Saying that there is no need to hibernate at all, I never have and it is not recommended unless you are absolutely sure how to do it. Too cold and the tort will freeze, too warm and the tort's motabalism won't slow down enough and the tort will starve. Too risky as far as I'm concerned.
Just keep your UVA & UVB bulbs on for 12 hours a day mimicing the summer daylight and your tort won't hibernate, the temp should be 32 degrees for them to bask, with a cold side and a hot side so they can regulate their body temperature as needed. My tort will come out about 8am and stay out until 5pm and eat almost immediately.
You're feeding a good diet, just never be tempted to feed your tortoise any fruit, it's not good for them. Dark green vegatation is the general rule.
I would cut the daily baths down to 2 a week. As you might have noticed water stimulates torts to poo, if you bath too often you are running the food too quickly through their system before they get time to digest it fully.
For substrate I find the best to be a 50/50 mix of coconut coir and playsand. Soak the coir block in a bucket of warm water until it expands, mix in the sand and put it into the enclosure. Make it deep enough for the tort to fully bury itself, wet down the substate twice weekly. As the bulbs evapourate the moisture it will keep the humity correct for the tort's skin and also help reduce the risk of respitory infections. Always make sure your temps are right before wetting down the substrate, if it's too cold you can make your tort sick.

pete2009

Thanks, that is such a help..I'll re-read through your advice.

Many thanks for taking the time to write this down.

Pete

lrushe wrote: »

Hi,
I have a 5 year old Russian for the past 3 years. The generally rule is never to hibernate a 'new' tortoise ie. new to you in the first year you have it as you don't know first hand it's health history and tortoise are v.good at hiding illness, they need to be 100% healthy in order to survive hibernation.
Saying that there is no need to hibernate at all, I never have and it is not recommended unless you are absolutely sure how to do it. Too cold and the tort will freeze, too warm and the tort's motabalism won't slow down enough and the tort will starve. Too risky as far as I'm concerned.
Just keep your UVA & UVB bulbs on for 12 hours a day mimicing the summer daylight and your tort won't hibernate, the temp should be 32 degrees for them to bask, with a cold side and a hot side so they can regulate their body temperature as needed. My tort will come out about 8am and stay out until 5pm and eat almost immediately.
You're feeding a good diet, just never be tempted to feed your tortoise any fruit, it's not good for them. Dark green vegatation is the general rule.
I would cut the daily baths down to 2 a week. As you might have noticed water stimulates torts to poo, if you bath too often you are running the food too quickly through their system before they get time to digest it fully.
For substrate I find the best to be a 50/50 mix of coconut coir and playsand. Soak the coir block in a bucket of warm water until it expands, mix in the sand and put it into the enclosure. Make it deep enough for the tort to fully bury itself, wet down the substate twice weekly. As the bulbs evapourate the moisture it will keep the humity correct for the tort's skin and also help reduce the risk of respitory infections. Always make sure your temps are right before wetting down the substrate, if it's too cold you can make your tort sick.

pete2009

Thanks so much.


We will not be hibernating the torts this year for sure.

Could I ask a few questions of you if you dont mind:

We have been using dust extracted sawdust chippings and straw in their sleeping crate, should saw dust be avoided? The pretreated straw is bought from Devon (Meadow Hay)

Currently we have an open run for them in our downstairs living area.

This area is 8 foot by 6 foot on which we have lino/vinyl floor covering.

We feed them in this area, and the uneaten food is removed and changed daily.

And we put them into their crate in the evening.

We use a 50 watt daylight spot which was recommended to us by the pet shop.

Their day area a has a lot of natural light as it is beside a huge window. It is a warm area at the moment due to good patches of sun.

The female, Shelly, can be heard occasionally exhaling air in a sort of puff, could this be a respiratory infection? possible due to sawdust bedding?

Many thanks

Pete

lrushe

pete2009 wrote: »

Thanks so much.


We will not be hibernating the torts this year for sure.

Could I ask a few questions of you if you dont mind:

We have been using dust extracted sawdust chippings and straw in their sleeping crate, should saw dust be avoided? The pretreated straw is bought from Devon (Meadow Hay)

Currently we have an open run for them in our downstairs living area.

This area is 8 foot by 6 foot on which we have lino/vinyl floor covering.

We feed them in this area, and the uneaten food is removed and changed daily.

And we put them into their crate in the evening.

We use a 50 watt daylight spot which was recommended to us by the pet shop.

Their day area a has a lot of natural light as it is beside a huge window. It is a warm area at the moment due to good patches of sun.

The female, Shelly, can be heard occasionally exhaling air in a sort of puff, could this be a respiratory infection? possible due to sawdust bedding?

Many thanks

Pete

Straw is good for their sleeping box only but sawdust really isn't a good substrate mainly because the substrate needs to wetted twice a week (or whenever it dries out), if you wet saw dust it will go green mouldy which isn't good for the tort.
An open run is fine for excerise but they also need an enclosure that you can regulate the heat in. Also torts love to dig and bury themselves, sometimes you can look in my enclosure and not see my tort at all because he has completely buried himself.
Removing uneaten food daily is good.
Your tort needs a UVA & UVB bulb to not only heat them but replicate sunlight, natural sunlight is great but torts can't get enough UVA/B through a glass window, they would have to be directly exposed to it or have a bulbs to simulate sunlight. Without this torts will develop malformed bones and shell. I have a 100 watt bulb in my enclosure for heat but you can experiment yourself and see which bulb gives you a basking temperature (the area under the bulb) of 32 degrees, the bulb should be about 12 inches above the enclosure. You should also keep a cuttlefish bone in their enclosure, it's much better than dusting their food with calcium as you can't over do it, the tort will just eat the cuttlefish bone as and when they need calcium. Lack of calcium will result in a brittle, soft shells and bones. Your tort may never touch it for a year then one day nearly eat the whole thing, that's what happened with me. Cuttlefish bone will also help wear down their beak.
You shouldn't be able to hear a tort breath, it is not a good sign. It could be a combination of the saw dust and your temps not being high enough. Either way I would get her to a vet, if for nothing else than to get her wormed, most pet shop torts have a huge parasite burden. I would recommend Barbara O'Malley in Bray, she is a reptile specialist who I use myself.
Just attached a few pics of my enclosure to give you an idea of what I mean:

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pete2009

Super photos, that really helps to see how you have housed your tort, lovely looking tortoise. Looks to be a different breed to ours. I will post a couple tommorow for you to have a look at.

I was with the torts for a fair part of the day (i work evenings). The breathing noise, I guess its more of a snort, occurs occasionaly when they are eating and not apparent at other times.

We live in Co Sligo so I will contact my own regular vet to see if there is a specialist vet in the area.

I had the tortoises out in the garden today as it was very sunny, whats your opinion on having tortoises in the garden, albeit for a short while?, ie on gras and potentially picking up parasites?

I have a vegatable patch which I was thinking of constructing a brick enclosure and a house within that...but reading the absolute importance of temperature, I dont think that is a good idea now?

I will be reading your advice in greater depth over the next day or two.

Your advice is so helpful and concise, thank you so much for your time taken to help us out with our care for the torts. there is a lot on the web but its mostly american stuff, or for different breeds, and your advice is so spot on...many thanks.

lrushe

pete2009 wrote: »

Super photos, that really helps to see how you have housed your tort, lovely looking tortoise. Looks to be a different breed to ours. I will post a couple tommorow for you to have a look at.

I was with the torts for a fair part of the day (i work evenings). The breathing noise, I guess its more of a snort, occurs occasionaly when they are eating and not apparent at other times.

We live in Co Sligo so I will contact my own regular vet to see if there is a specialist vet in the area.

I had the tortoises out in the garden today as it was very sunny, whats your opinion on having tortoises in the garden, albeit for a short while?, ie on gras and potentially picking up parasites?

I have a vegatable patch which I was thinking of constructing a brick enclosure and a house within that...but reading the absolute importance of temperature, I dont think that is a good idea now?

I will be reading your advice in greater depth over the next day or two.

Your advice is so helpful and concise, thank you so much for your time taken to help us out with our care for the torts. there is a lot on the web but its mostly american stuff, or for different breeds, and your advice is so spot on...many thanks.

There is only one 'breed' of Russian Tortoise though they can vary slightly in colour and the older the get the smoother the scutes on the shell become. The pics I posted of my tort were not long after I got him, he is slightly lighter now and his shell is smoother due to him maturing and getting better care. Just make sure the torts you have are definately Russians as the advice I have given you is specific to Russians, each species has different needs.
Had my tort out in the garden yesterday for awhile and it's great to be able to do that but I wouldn't have him outside all the time as we don't really get the temps in Ireland to do that.

pete2009

Thanks again:

Here are pics taken in July:

We were advised by the pet shop that the tortoises are Russian Horsfields.

And "quote" although they would require and benefit from artifical sun lighting/heating that they were capable of living in a more moderate climate ie; compared to tropical breeds".

I will be buliding an enclosure based on your photos, so thanks for that. And will be following your advice on heating etc.

From the photos of the tortoises, do they appear to be Russian Horsfields?

Many thanks

Pete

lrushe

Yep they are Russians alright. They are quite a few years old judging by their shells which are scratched (not necessarily a bad thing just a sign of age and wear and tear) and quite smooth, though in general they look in good condition.
If they are the age I suspect they are not male and female as females are almost twice the size of males ie. males are usually around 4" and females 8". Watch them walk, if they hold their tail to one sign they are almost certainly male.
If they do turn out to be male and female just be careful of the male in spring as they can harrass a female quite roughly in order to mate, the general ratio is usually 2 females to 1 male to try stop the male from picking on one female all the time. I wouldn't worry to much about it though, if you do see it happen just make sure the female has enough places to hide and get away.
I wouldn't take what you are told in petshops as gospel, they might have a general knowledge of all tortoises but rarely have specie specific knowlege. For example when I bought my tortoise he was being feed strawberries (never feed fruit) and being heated by a heating mat (tortoise should only ever be heated from above never below). Like I said a couple of hours out in the garden on a sunny day is great for them, better than any bulbs but they aren't equiped to live outside long term.
Forgot to mention, make sure you don't have any heat on for them at night, even in winter, this simulates desert conditions where they are from where it gets really cold at night but really hot during the day.
Also try keep glass to a minimium in your enclousure, I just have a small piece in the front, torts don't understand the concept of glass and will keep bumping into it. Make sure your enclosure is tall enough that the torts can't climb out (they are more agile than they look!) but also don't put a lid on it as an open top creates a better air flow.
Think that's all I can think of for the moment, best of luck with them they are a lovely pair!!:)

pete2009

Thank you again:

Indeed I'm not sure how old they could be now. Not that it matters, but do you think they could be a lot older than 5 years?

At the time we bought them , I was surprised because it did appear that they could be older, but I'm no expert and you take these things at face value. But looking at them again now, I think they could be 10 years plus? Is that likely?

Those photos I sent are probably somewhat flattering to the torts as the pictures are too bright.

I think the shop staff, were just relaying what they had been told from their other head office/shop. We did ask for their paperwork, but this was not forthcoming...

I wonder where they have been for the 5 previous years or longer. Could they have been used for breeding?

Oh and it does appear that we may have got the sexs wrong, (from what we were told). We were told that the best way to sex a tortoise is by an incline in the males belly, or was it the other way around? I cant remember now, but it was all very vague at the time.

We were at another store before we bought our two, and they told us to use a heated mat to house a Leopard Tortoise ...you wonder at times..

Our "male" is appx 7.5 x 6.5 inches (shell size) and the female is 6.5 x 5.5 inches (shell size)...is it likely that the sexes are other way around. Mind you they could be different ages?

They do a look a bit scratched, weathered and marked all right, again... not that that matters. I might call their head office, to see if they have the papers and/or anymore info on them... but I would'nt hold out much hope of finding out too much, if anything at all.

Anyways, we love them very much and hopefully, they are being better looked after now than ever before.

Thanks for all your help and advice...really really appreciated. Thank you.

lrushe

It is possible they could be older as once a Russian is fully grown (around 4-5 years old) it is pretty hard to tell an exact age unless the date of birth has been recorded as they don't change very much. Even if they are 10 years old they are still very young as they can live for anything up to 50 years.
I wouldn't hold my breath on getting paperwork for these guys, if I was a betting person I would say for their worn shells that they are wild caught tortoises as opposed to being captive bred by a tortoise breeder. If you compare your tortoises shells with the pics of mine (who was captive bred) you will notice the difference, my guys shell hasn't a mark on it despite the fact that he is supposedly around the same age as your two. There's nothing you can do about this now, just giving them a good life is the priority.
When you are measuring your torts make sure you measure across the plastron (flat part of the belly) as opposed to across the carpace (the back) for a more accurate measurement.
Here's a link to a great website for some more info I might have forgotten to mention:

http://www.russiantortoise.org/index.htm

pete2009

What a star you are! Many thanks....

pete