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"no, I'm actually an athiest"

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    #422
    JohnathanM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭JohnathanM


    JokerD wrote: »
    Just a question for anyone claiming to be an Athiest, come Christmas time, do you give and receive presents? If you don't believe in God then you don't believe in Jesus so really it would be the height of hypocrisy if you celebrated Christmas. Anybody who answers honestly and answers with a yes I give then your credibility as an Athiest is a farce.

    Why? The festival is itself an appropriation of a Pagan one, so it's ridiculous to be celebrating it as a Christian. It's a nice bit of time of work to spend with family, and have some fun. End of.


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    #423
    JokerD
    Registered Users Posts: 3,024 ✭✭✭JokerD


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    I've answered this already in this thread. If you wish to read the long answer, along with the details, it is in the thread.

    Short answer, yes, i give and receive presents. I don't see it in contradiction to my non belief in God.

    Not going to get in a big debate here but you are celebrating the birth of a person whom you believe never existed. I wouldn't celebrate other religious holidays.


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    #424
    Hedman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭Hedman


    krudler wrote: »
    I'm shocked someone hasnt trotted out the "if you're an athiest why celebrate Christmas" line yet.
    JokerD wrote: »
    Just a question for anyone claiming to be an Athiest, come Christmas time, do you give and receive presents? If you don't believe in God then you don't believe in Jesus so really it would be the height of hypocrisy if you celebrated Christmas. Anybody who answers honestly and answers with a yes I give then your credibility as an Athiest is a farce.

    It was inevitable really.


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    #425
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    Claiming to be atheists? lol.

    Given that nothing bar the first six letters of the name has any basis in christianity then I don't think atheists are the hypocrites, tbh, taking every available celebration and feast as your own and then claiming exclusivity tho... :P

    I think some people have trouble recognising that atheism isn't a religion! That if you do one thing differently to other athiests, you can no longer be in the club!


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    #426
    potterycourse
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭potterycourse


    JokerD wrote: »
    Not going to get in a big debate here.

    Good man!


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    #427
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    JohnathanM wrote: »
    Why? The festival is itself an appropriation of a Pagan one, so it's ridiculous to be celebrating it as a Christian. It's a nice bit of time of work to spend with family, and have some fun. End of.

    Pagans celebrated a form of christmas.

    I believe that Historians reckons that Jesus was born around september and believe it unlikely that jesus was born in december.

    The 25 December date that we celebrate christmas was declared in about 350 ad by the then pope and was tried as a means of converting pagan romans to christianity. This date was chosen to coincide with a previous festival that was celebrated around the same time of year and was chosen to allay fears that their festivals would not disappear


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    #428
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    JokerD wrote: »
    Not going to get in a big debate here but you are celebrating the birth of a person whom you believe never existed. I wouldn't celebrate other religious holidays.

    Who said i was celebrating the birth of anyone?

    Also, who said i didn't believe Jesus existed?

    Are you just plucking things from the sky?


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    #429
    Scarinae
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 11,362 ✭✭✭✭Scarinae


    medicman2009 wrote: »
    Evolution is merely a THEORY.

    This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what a theory, in the scientific sense, actually is.

    Here are two definitions from the Oxford English Dictionary:
    Theory, sense 1: A scheme or system of ideas or statements held as an explanation or account of a group of facts or phenomena; a hypothesis that has been confirmed or established by observation or experiment, and is propounded or accepted as accounting for the known facts; a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed.

    Theory, sense 2: A hypothesis proposed as an explanation; hence, a mere hypothesis, speculation, conjecture; an idea or set of ideas about something; an individual view or notion.

    Science calls evolution a theory, in the first sense. When you dismiss evolution as 'merely a theory', you seem to think it is a theory in the second sense. Evolution wasn't just made up in the pub one night you know, it has a huge mass of experimental evidence backing it up.

    Another example is the Heliocentric Theory of the Solar System, that the earth and other the other planets orbit the sun. Are you going to dismiss that as 'merely a theory'?


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    #430
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    JokerD wrote: »
    Not going to get in a big debate here but you are celebrating the birth of a person whom you believe never existed. I wouldn't celebrate other religious holidays.

    But jesus wasn't born on 25th of december - or even close to that - if you wish to adopt that date then by all means do so but don't assume everyone else that is carrying on with the feasting and present giving, mistletoe and yule-tide greetings that pre-date christianity are doing likewise. You would do well to remember - or understand - who is adopting who's customs.


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    #431
    JokerD
    Registered Users Posts: 3,024 ✭✭✭JokerD


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Who said i was celebrating the birth of anyone?

    Also, who said i didn't believe Jesus existed?

    Are you just plucking things from the sky?

    Well if you are indeed an Athiest then you don't believe in Gods so therefore you aint going to believe in the son of God. I just wanted to hear an explaination to a question that I heard posed to many Athiests. Just interested to hear your response. I've no probs with people's beliefs either way.


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    #432
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Overheal wrote: »
    I Said: Kill. It. With. Fire.

    I've a lighter, you've got any kindling?


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    #433
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    JokerD wrote: »
    Well if you are indeed an Athiest then you don't believe in Gods so therefore you aint going to believe in the son of God. I just wanted to hear an explaination to a question that I heard posed to many Athiests. Just interested to hear your response. I've no probs with people's beliefs either way.

    But wasn't jesus Christ a man? Who said i didnt believe he existed?

    You presume that, because i give my family presents on Dec 25 that i am celebrating the birth of the Son of God.

    Not so!


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    #434
    JokerD
    Registered Users Posts: 3,024 ✭✭✭JokerD


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    But jesus wasn't born on 25th of december - or even close to that - if you wish to adopt that date then by all means do so but don't assume everyone else that is carrying on with the feasting and present giving, mistletoe and yule-tide greetings that pre-date christianity are doing likewise. You would do well to remember - or understand - who is adopting who's customs.


    Believe me I do understand. I just simply wanted to hear an answer to a question I've heard posed many times - that's all.


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    #435
    JohnathanM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭JohnathanM


    amacachi wrote: »
    I've a lighter, you've got any kindling?

    I left this thread hours ago to watch the last couple of episodes from series four of Dexter (the best so far, btw), and just looking back all I can say is... wow. In just how many ways can the same two or three points can be made by either side. Is there a world record attempt going on or something? It's like watching my cat chasing its tail, just not quite as furry. I just can't turn away, though... :)


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    #436
    JokerD
    Registered Users Posts: 3,024 ✭✭✭JokerD


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    But wasn't jesus Christ a man? Who said i didnt believe he existed?

    You presume that, because i give my family presents on Dec 25 that i am celebrating the birth of the Son of God.

    Not so!

    My word what have I said. I just wanted your opinion. Regarding your question, if you don't believe in God then you can't believe Jesus exisited as he is the son of God.


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    #437
    TheUsual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,288 ✭✭✭TheUsual


    I feel left out - nobody ever told me they were an athiest. :mad:

    I would just mock them like their militant vegetarian cousins. Same attention seeking personaities. :D


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    #438
    JohnathanM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭JohnathanM


    JokerD wrote: »
    My word what have I said. I just wanted your opinion. Regarding your question, if you don't believe in God then you can't believe Jesus exisited as he is the son of God.

    There was a guy called Jesus, it seems. He wasn't the son of God, though, and neither were the hundreds of other people running around claiming to speak for Him. Just a dude, running a scam. Perhaps mentally ill.


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    #439
    JokerD
    Registered Users Posts: 3,024 ✭✭✭JokerD


    JohnathanM wrote: »
    I left this thread hours ago to watch the last couple of episodes from series four of Dexter (the best so far, btw), and just looking back all I can say is... wow. In just how many ways can the same two or three points can be made by either side. Is there a world record attempt going on or something? It's like watching my cat chasing its tail, just not quite as furry. I just can't turn away, though... :)

    So true, people have been debating these topics forever, I doubt it'll be resolved on After Hours:D


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    #440
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    JokerD wrote: »
    Believe me I do understand. I just simply wanted to hear an answer to a question I've heard posed many times - that's all.

    Well, i've posted this before, but i will do it again i guess. This is why i celebrate Christmas!

    Thanks to the church, Christmas is a national holiday in Ireland (i think). Anyway, everyone gets time off work at Christmas. So, at Christmas every year, myself and my family (none of whom are religious) all get together, like we're unable to do at other times of year, and spend time together. We give each other presents because that is the custom and it's a nice thing to do.

    We basically use the excuse of Christmas to be together. I love Christmas for this reason! I don't believe in God, it's not that i hate all things religion!

    I don't believe in fairies, but God knows that if someone wants to give me a day off and an excuse to buy things for my family and call it "National Fairy Day", i'm taking advantage!


  • Options
    #441
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    JohnathanM wrote: »
    I left this thread hours ago to watch the last couple of episodes from series four of Dexter (the best so far, btw), and just looking back all I can say is... wow. In just how many ways can the same two or three points can be made by either side. Is there a world record attempt going on or something? It's like watching my cat chasing its tail, just not quite as furry. I just can't turn away, though... :)

    I'm not taking the bait to express my opinion. :pac: But yeah, watch the rest of season 4 and avoid spoilers, brilliant!


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    #442
    Greentopia
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Greentopia


    JokerD wrote: »
    Just a question for anyone claiming to be an Athiest, come Christmas time, do you give and receive presents? If you don't believe in God then you don't believe in Jesus so really it would be the height of hypocrisy if you celebrated Christmas. Anybody who answers honestly and answers with a yes I give then your credibility as an Athiest is a farce.

    Ok, I'll bite. I give presents to a few people I'm close to because it's a nice fun thing to do and if I get it right it gives pleasure to people I care for. I don't think there's anything hypocritical in that. I have turkey and ham and all the rest on xmas day for the same reason and also because it's nice to get together with friends and family and convenient as most people are off work then.

    They're just cultural traditions for me without any religious context, no more.

    As an atheist no I don't 'celebrate' Christmas in the religious sense, but then again how many so-called Catholics in this country do?
    Most people I know who retain anything of their faith go to mass perhaps once a year on Christmas day, usually at the behest of their parents/families, that's it.
    From what I see it's all about consumerism. If anyone's a hypocrite it's them surely? (though I wouldn't say that to them of course even if I might think it).


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    #443
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    JohnathanM wrote: »
    I left this thread hours ago to watch the last couple of episodes from series four of Dexter (the best so far, btw), and just looking back all I can say is... wow. In just how many ways can the same two or three points can be made by either side. Is there a world record attempt going on or something? It's like watching my cat chasing its tail, just not quite as furry. I just can't turn away, though... :)

    It's crazy! I've been asked the same questions by the same people about 7 times each!

    Then new people pop in and ask those questions because they havent bothered to read the thread!


  • Options
    #444
    JokerD
    Registered Users Posts: 3,024 ✭✭✭JokerD


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Well, i've posted this before, but i will do it again i guess. This is why i celebrate Christmas!

    Thanks to the church, Christmas is a national holiday in Ireland (i think). Anyway, everyone gets time off work at Christmas. So, at Christmas every year, myself and my family (none of whom are religious) all get together, like we're unable to do at other times of year, and spend time together. We give each other presents because that is the custom and it's a nice thing to do.

    We basically use the excuse of Christmas to be together. I love Christmas for this reason! I don't believe in God, it's not that i hate all things religion!

    I don't believe in fairies, but God knows that if someone wants to give me a day off and an excuse to buy things for my family and call it "National Fairy Day", i'm taking advantage!

    Good honest answer, that's all I wanted. As I said I'm not bashing other people's beliefs of lack there of. Just was very interested in hearing an answer to that question regarding Christmas as I've heard it asked before but the responses weren't great.


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    #445
    Scarinae
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 11,362 ✭✭✭✭Scarinae


    TheUsual wrote: »
    I feel left out - nobody ever told me they were an athiest. :mad:

    I would just mock them like their militant vegetarian cousins. Same attention seeking personaities. :D

    Most atheists aren't actually attention-seeking, you just only notice the ones who are. By your own admission, nobody has ever told you that they are an atheist, but chances are you know some.


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    #446
    scientific1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭scientific1982


    JohnathanM wrote: »
    There was a guy called Jesus, it seems. He wasn't the son of God, though, and neither were the hundreds of other people running around claiming to speak for Him. Just a dude, running a scam. Perhaps mentally ill.
    He wasnt the messiah, he was a very naughty boy.


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    #447
    Greentopia
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Greentopia


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    Claiming to be atheists? lol

    I know, I saw that too and went :rolleyes: in my head.


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    #448
    scientific1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭scientific1982


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    It's crazy! I've been asked the same questions by the same people about 7 times each!

    Then new people pop in and ask those questions because they havent bothered to read the thread!
    I think you're doing an admirable job MrStuffins. Its like extreme forum debating.


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    #449
    TheUsual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,288 ✭✭✭TheUsual


    Fishie wrote: »
    Most atheists aren't actually attention-seeking, you just only notice the ones who are. By your own admission, nobody has ever told you that they are an atheist, but chances are you know some.

    No I don't to be very honest ... although I think one may be a vegetarian.


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    #450
    JokerD
    Registered Users Posts: 3,024 ✭✭✭JokerD


    Greentopia wrote: »
    I know, I saw that too and went :rolleyes: in my head.


    Well these are people who don't have a logical explaination to certain questions about their Athiesm. But people on here have gave their reasons so fair play. I can't stress enough I'm not having a go at people here as I've said numerous times I just wanted to hear informed responses to a question I've heard people struggle to answer.


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    #451
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    TheUsual wrote: »
    Now I don't to be very honest ... although I think one may be a vegetarian.

    lol


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