"no, I'm actually an athiest"

Duggy747

I'm right!

No, I'm right!

No, no, no.........you're obviously some sort of retarded gloop of sprem goo, I'M RIGHT!!

Gee whizz :pac:

We might as well be condeming people for not listening to the "right" music.

Ickle Magoo

Duggy747 wrote: »

Gee whizz :pac:

We might as well be condeming people for not listening to the "right" music.

A better analogy would be looking at someone slightly oddly for going on about how great this band was and how fab their songs are because when asked to play something so we can all hear how great it is, they admit there is actually no band we can go see, no music we can actually listen to but yet they still claim it's the best band in the world and anyone who doesn't think so is a donut...

MrStuffins

krudler wrote: »

Dawkins is a twat, so dont assume all athiests/non believers agree with everything he says, his arguments maybe, but not his methods.

Why has Dawkins even been mentioned here?

People like Outlaw Pete give out about condescending athiests but go on to be condescending.

Giving out about proof this and proof that by spewing out ill-informed and ill-researched bull and, in fact, knee-jerk comments.

They think "Oh, Dawkins is a sh1thead, so everyone who doesn't believe in God is therefore a sh1thead"

It's atheism, not the Church of Dawkins. Get over it!

KeithAFC

Isn't there already a thread on this posted earlier?

OutlawPete

MrStuffins wrote: »

Also, every single post in this thread from you has been of the most condescending nature. It's hilarious!

None of my posts have been condescending, neither the ones I posted before going to see Mr Nice, nor the ones after.

My last post, where I was accused of being condescending , was made in response to a condescending post asking me if I had read two particular books but yet said they most likely knew the answer.

Think the sarcasm in that post was lost on some, but hey - you do your best.

Course, if I was up my own arse, as most Atheists appear to be, I would of course say that in that post I was being ironic

MrStuffins wrote: »

At no point was my argument shown to be invalid.

MrStuffins wrote: »

No, but it is possible that they are trolls when they show complete ignorance and say things like "There is no ecidence".

Possible or not, they are entitled to their opinion and should be allowed to post without being labeled a troll.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Where have i mentioned Darwin's Theory of Evolution?

Are you kidding?

You have been spouting on about it being "fact" and "proven, without a shadow of a doubt" from the very start of the thread:

MrStuffins wrote: »

..there is no getting away from the fact that those who argue against Evolution are completely ignorant to the FACT of Evolution.

MrStuffins wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you are wrong here. Evolution has been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

MrStuffins

OutlawPete wrote: »

None of my posts have been condescending.......

I disagree.

Possible or not, they are entitled to their opinion and should be allowed to post without being labeled a troll.

If you say so. I am also entitled to believe that someone's complete ignorance might indeed be fake and their intention is to troll. You do realise trolls exist on Boards right?

Are you kidding?

You have been spouting on about it being "fact" and "proven, without a shadow of a doubt" from the very start of the thread:

Yes, that's right, and i stand by the fact that Evolution is 100% proven.

Now, where did i mention Charles Darwin again?

OutlawPete

krudler wrote: »

Dawkins is a twat, so dont assume all athiests/non believers agree with everything he says, his arguments maybe, but not his methods.

Well, atheists shouldn't assume that all people who don't accept the Theory Of Evolution as fact are all creationists who believe there is a man in the sky with a beard, or that they haven't read two of the most read books in the world.

Dave!

OP great to hear that more and more people you encounter and announcing themselves as atheists.

Can't say that's been my experience unfortunately, but hopefully that's the direction we're headed, and we can shed ourselves of supertitions like religion, and look at the world with a mature, 21st-century eye.

Ickle Magoo

OutlawPete wrote: »

My last post, where I was accused of being condescending , was made in response to a condescending post asking me if I had read two particular books but yet said they most likely knew the answer.

Well, I suggested that perhaps you hadn't read either book because if you had you'd know what Darwin had proposed and what he hadn't - and you know the word "fact" hadn't come into it...if pointing out the fallacious nature of your postings now counts as condescension then I'd have to suggest you are throwing around the accusation in a vain attempt to cover your own backside. :cool:

krudler

MrStuffins wrote: »

Why has Dawkins even been mentioned here?

People like Outlaw Pete give out about condescending athiests but go on to be condescending.

Giving out about proof this and proof that by spewing out ill-informed and ill-researched bull and, in fact, knee-jerk comments.

They think "Oh, Dawkins is a sh1thead, so everyone who doesn't believe in God is therefore a sh1thead"

It's atheism, not the Church of Dawkins. Get over it!

Exactly, hes one guy. Yet you mention people like Fred Phelps or Pope Benedict other extremist acts in gods name to religious types as an example of everything thats wrong with religion, and you get the "but he/they dont speak for all of us" argument, sigh..

The most comical thing about evolution in this, is that church AGREES with it!

krudler

OutlawPete wrote: »

Well, atheists shouldn't assume that all people who don't accept the Theory Of Evolution as fact are all creationists who believe there is a man in the sky with a beard, or that they haven't read two of the most read books in the world.

I didnt assume or state either of those, but when someone says "i dont believe in evolution" yet doesnt offer a counter reason to it or even an "I dont know" you're logically going to think its a belief grounded in religious aspects. If someone says " I dont believe we evolved from apes" the logical counter is that they believe in creationism or adam and eve, when they could believe we evolved from pineapple seeds, but as they didnt specifically state that, well then you gotta go with the logical counter argument

I've already said I don label myself an athiest, I dont believe in god, but I do believe there was a historical figure named Jesus, a guy who had some wild ideas about being nice to each other? sure, thats plausible, but a miracle performing , self resurrecting son of a deity? nah.

Dave!

Anyone who thinks that evolution does not explain the diversity of life on display today should feel free to explain why, because there's a nobel prize waiting for you Evolution is the basis for modern biological science ("nothing in biology makes sense except in light of evolution"), so if you were to suddenly whip that carpet out from under everybody then you would almost certainly get a nobel prize for it (and you get a million dollars or so out of that).

However please save the conspiracy theories about how science is closed-minded and would just suppress any contrary opinions, etc. Science changes all the time and if there is good evidence for something then a consensus emerges. If you ignore the evidence, then you'll quickly find yourself marginalised and your credibility will go to sh*t.

Unfortunately (for the dissenters), there is a huge body of evidence, from completely seperate fields (DNA vs. fossil evidence for example), and they all converge on the same idea: that all modern life evolved from simpler organisms over millions of years.

Saermegil

I don't get this thread. I'm what you would call an atheist but I don't like that term - I'd say I don't have any faith in the supernatural. Now, I never tell people about that if they don't ask me or if we're not having aconversation directly about our personal beliefs.

However, I am vocal about my beliefs when religious people or atheists with unsubstantiated beliefs try to influence areas such as education or public policy or scientific research. I never argue with anyone over the existence of God or the validity of religion - I only get fired up when some believers (could be religious, conspiracy nuts etc...) overstep a line like the ones mentioned above.

As far as evolution is concerned : I will not argue this, as you are not someone that controls education policy or are a teacher or researcher in any related field. Thus, your opinion regarding this scientific matter matters not. However, I will point out (maybe somewhat pedantically) that evolution was the accepted explanation for biological diversity even before Darwin's time. Darwin came up with the idea that explained evolution : evolution by natural selection.

Thank you for reading, and I do hope you can realize that no huge group of people can be summed up by a post in AH.

Einhard

PAULWATSON wrote: »

These days, it seems everyone is tearing about the place mouthing off about "being an athiest".

Is this some sort of snobbish "new, new Ireland" thing that has passed me bye?

No bible basher myself, however I don't ever want to be confused with an athiest. I don't pride myself on "the scientific method", or believe in evolution for that matter.

One thing always bothered me about evolution, according to the theory the people around you are the fittest "best of the best" after two million years of dog eat dog. Now looking at this lot, what must the prototype have been like, a right clown I'd say.

(paedo this, paedo that, blah, blah, catholic church, blah, had enough, blah, superstition, blah, we're so educated, blah.)

Are you a smug little athiest?

I'm an atheist. My mother died last year. At the funeral, the priest preached a sermon about how all "us" believers were the lucky ones because "we" all knew we'd see her again. Myself and my brother (also an atheist) just looked at each other. My father and sister believe in a God, and believe that they will see her again sometimes. I don't. That was that as far as I'm concerned. I wish I could believe I'd see her again; sometimes I wish I could delude myself into believing in God so I'd at least have the comfort that hope (however false) provides. But I can't. Atheism is a burden for me. It doesn't weigh me down, but it costs me something alright.

A friend of mine accused me of being an atheist for purely aestehtic reasons recently. Kinda like the OP. I tore the face of him (verbally). Believers, in general anyway, sacrifice nothing, and yet have this wonderful comfort blanket. My friends never go to mass, and when they do, they never listen to what's preached. Outwardly, they have as much to do with their religion as I do with the one I renounced. And yet, when the going gets tough, when they're in a bad way, they turn to their God, and receive comfort. They sacrifice nothing, yet gain everything. They don't bother think. They know less about Scripture than I do. And yet they alledge my atheism is some form of fad. It's both ironic and infuriating. A true atheist needs the conviction of his disbelief, a true believer needs nothing of the sort...and yet we're the ones who are followers of the trend...

Einhard

Fundamentalist atheists suck.

Fundamentalist believers suck.

I think that's a reasonable middle ground.

People who don't agree with that, er, well, suck.

Ickle Magoo

So sorry that you lost your mum Einhard.

I'm kind of in the same boat - lack of beliefs wise. I have never believed, never been able to make sense of it to a point I could believe - and when the going has gotten tough I've often wished I could avail of the comfort or knowledge that a god was looking out for me - but I can't or can't do it with any true conviction, so atheist - or de-facto atheist - I am.

OutlawPete

MrStuffins wrote: »

You do realise trolls exist on Boards right?

Aye, I believe they put that 'report post' button there for such occasions.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Now, where did i mention Charles Darwin again?

Oh sorry, where you speaking of MrStuffin's Theory of Evolution?

MrStuffins wrote: »

People like Outlaw Pete give out about condescending atheists but go on to be condescending.

I don't sneer and laugh at people who believe things and go about their business as atheists do.

MrStuffins wrote: »

They think "Oh, Dawkins is a sh1thead, so everyone who doesn't believe in God is therefore a sh1thead"

Well most condescending atheists sound as obnoxious as him, so they'll have to excuse the misunderstanding that they must in fact be members of his fan club.

MrStuffins wrote: »

It's atheism, not the Church of Dawkins. Get over it!

Most atheists have a boner for Dawkins, so you'll just have to get used to be tarred with the same brush for awhile.

krudler wrote: »

I didnt assume or state either of those, but when someone says "i dont believe in evolution" yet doesnt offer a counter reason to it or even an "I dont know" ..

Are you serious?

I have already stated that I believe humans are evolving, just as all animals and plants are and also that I believe 99% of all religions are a nonsense.

No doesn't that tell you that I am not a creationist?

Yet, you still think that because I don't buy all aspects of the 'Theory of Evolution', then I must put forth a "counter reason"???

Okay, here's one.

Creatures from another plant came down and took samples of Chimpanzee DNA and mixed it with their own and created us, kinda like how we stick human ears on mice and shit.

Will that do?

krudler wrote: »

.. you're logically going to think its a belief grounded in religious aspects.

Not if you fully read people's post you won't.

krudler wrote: »

If someone says " I dont believe we evolved from apes" the logical counter is that they believe in creationism or adam and eve.

Not if you fully .. you get the picture.

Einhard

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

So sorry that you lost your mum Einhard.

I'm kind of in the same boat - lack of beliefs wise. I have never believed, never been able to make sense of it to a point I could believe - and when the going has gotten tough I've often wished I could avail of the comfort or knowledge that a god was looking out for me - but I can't or can't do it with any true conviction, so atheist - or de-facto atheist - I am.

Thanks.

The only reason I bring it up is to illustrate the kind of burden that atheists have to live with. It's not a fad, or a trend that we follow to be in with the cool kids. Admittedly, some people do adopt atheism as if its some means of burnishing their "liberal" credentials, but such charlatans are easily found out, and do more damage to the atheistic cause (if there is such a thing) than anything else.

Ridley

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

... I have never believed, never been able to make sense of it to a point I could believe ...

Really? Not even as a child?

Helix

PAULWATSON wrote: »

Deep, deep thinker! I'd have thought that your millions and millions of years of evolution would have sorted everything out, no need for any medicine.

apart from the fact that everything evolves? its not just humans, the viruses and bacteria that make animals sick are constantly evolving

you seem to be under the illusion that its just humans who evolution effects

the joys of ignorance eh?

Ickle Magoo

Ridley wrote: »

Really? Not even as a child?

No, not even as a child. I told my parents as a pre-schooler I didn't get the whole god deal and they asked that I go to sunday school until I could come to them with a proper argument and when I was 5 or 6, I had a great chat with my dad about it and that was that.

OutlawPete

Einhard wrote: »

Fundamentalist atheists suck.

Fundamentalist believers suck.

I think that's a reasonable middle ground.

People who don't agree with that, er, well, suck.

Precisely and I guess that is why there is such heated discussion in these types of threads.

I have just as much contempt for people who shove religion down other's throats as I do for the atheists who sneer at people who believe that humans might have a soul.

Helix

orourkeda wrote: »

Freedom of religious expression should not be bellitled once it is practiced within the law and doesnt directly influence anothers life or wellbeing in any way.

this is true

and when non catholic children can get into schools in ireland no problem, and when non catholics can have a drink on good friday, and when the tax payer isnt footing the bill for the angelus, and when judges arent sworn in with an oath to god, and when tds dont open session with a prayer then we'll be a little closer to the thing you describe

until then though, it should be belittled, fought and driven to destruction

Ridley

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

No, not even as a child. I told my parents as a pre-schooler I didn't get the whole god deal and they asked that I go to sunday school until I could come to them with a proper argument and when I was 5 or 6, I had a great chat with my dad about it and that was that.

Interesting. I would have thought theism the default position for anyone.

I remember around that age asking a teacher who created God if God created everything (and much later realising the response I got was a deflection ) but I can't say I thought my parents were wrong at the time rather than just not getting it.

Einhard

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

So sorry that you lost your mum Einhard.

I'm kind of in the same boat - lack of beliefs wise. I have never believed, never been able to make sense of it to a point I could believe - and when the going has gotten tough I've often wished I could avail of the comfort or knowledge that a god was looking out for me - but I can't or can't do it with any true conviction, so atheist - or de-facto atheist - I am.

I was the opposite. I always believed in God when I was younger. I was never particularly pious, never went to Mass etc, but I'd always say a few prayers before bed, even if it was more about routine than anything else. One of my friends was a bit of a brain box, studied theoretical physics, and we used have big debates about the existence of God. It wasn't so much that I was arguing as a believer, but as someone who likes a good debate. Yet I couldn't understand how he could dismiss the possibility of a God with such cavalier abandon. it was completely non-sensical to me. The irony of course, is that now the roles are reversed. He believes in God, and I don't. Or can't to be more precise. However, I think that fact that I once argued so vociferously in favour of a divine being actually makes me a more tolerant atheist.

Helix

Ridley wrote: »

Interesting. I would have thought theism the default position for anyone.

atheism is the default position

theism comes with being force fed damaging crap at a young age

Ickle Magoo

Ridley wrote: »

Interesting. I would have thought theism the default position for anyone.

I remember around that age asking a teacher who created God if God created everything (and much later realising the reaction I got was deflection) but I can't say I thought my parents were wrong at the time rather than just not getting it.

Why theism as default? None of us start life believing and I think some people are just more cynical than others by nature. My mum says when they tried to introduce the whole santa down the chimney thing, I just looked at her like she had three heads. :pac:

Ridley

Helix wrote: »

atheism is the default position

theism comes with being force fed damaging crap at a young age

That would require the acceptance of atheism from birth rather than absence of knowledge of either.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Why theism as default? None of us start life believing and I think some people are just more cynical than others by nature. My mum says when they tried to introduce the whole santa down the chimney thing, I just looked at her like she had three heads.

Well what I mean is gravitating toward the beliefs of those educating you rather than having an real opinion either way.

And yes I realise I contradicted my comment to Helix.

Helix

Ridley wrote: »

That would require the acceptance of atheism from birth rather than absence of knowledge of either.

theres no acceptance required for atheism

acceptance is only required to believe in something, not to not believe in it

professore

Einhard wrote: »

I'm an atheist. My mother died last year. At the funeral, the priest preached a sermon about how all "us" believers were the lucky ones because "we" all knew we'd see her again. Myself and my brother (also an atheist) just looked at each other. My father and sister believe in a God, and believe that they will see her again sometimes. I don't. That was that as far as I'm concerned. I wish I could believe I'd see her again; sometimes I wish I could delude myself into believing in God so I'd at least have the comfort that hope (however false) provides. But I can't. Atheism is a burden for me. It doesn't weigh me down, but it costs me something alright.

A friend of mine accused me of being an atheist for purely aestehtic reasons recently. Kinda like the OP. I tore the face of him (verbally). Believers, in general anyway, sacrifice nothing, and yet have this wonderful comfort blanket. My friends never go to mass, and when they do, they never listen to what's preached. Outwardly, they have as much to do with their religion as I do with the one I renounced. And yet, when the going gets tough, when they're in a bad way, they turn to their God, and receive comfort. They sacrifice nothing, yet gain everything. They don't bother think. They know less about Scripture than I do. And yet they alledge my atheism is some form of fad. It's both ironic and infuriating. A true atheist needs the conviction of his disbelief, a true believer needs nothing of the sort...and yet we're the ones who are followers of the trend...

I sympathise with this. My 9 year old son died this year, himself an athiest, actually in a way it was him that finally fully 'converted' me, as he decided himself that he didn't believe in god as it made no sense to him. He didn't do his communion as he said the only reason he would be doing it was for the money. So i know it hurts to be an athiest and it sure isn't a fashion statement. We had a non-religious service, and it was nicer and more meaningful than any religious service I was ever at. I don't mention to anyone about being an atheist unless they ask me.