"no, I'm actually an athiest"

MrStuffins

krudler wrote: »

Theres a woman I work with who constantly says "god bless" at the end of nearly every call she deals with, if I started ending all my dealings with customers with "praise be to Allah" or something I'd have the HR dept down on me like a ton of rocks to stop it.

....I'm trying it monday :pac:

I've got a friend who, around the same time as me, started to question their religious indoctrination.

We both came to different conclusions. I am now Athiest and he is now (as before) a Muslim.

He slags me by saying "Praise be to Darwin" and i always say "By the power of Allah".

It's good when people are comfortable enough in their own beliefs that they can do this. And his comfort came from his questioning, which strengthened his faith.

And he knows all their is to know about my lack of belief because he had the same journey as me.

If only everyone could be like this!

krudler

Jakkass wrote: »

^^ One could hardly say that God bless is smug. It's in effect wishing the best of them for the rest of the day. One could hardly say the same of God isn't real. It's about the sentiment more than anything else.

Why not just say "enjoy the rest of your day" then? or specify which god they mean? Odin? Thor? Loki? Judeo-Christian?

liah

Jakkass wrote: »

^^ One could hardly say that God bless is smug. It's in effect wishing the best of them for the rest of the day. One could hardly say the same of God isn't real. It's about the sentiment more than anything else.

Which is why I edited it and added that bit in on second reading.

I understand that the majority who say these kind of things only mean well by it, but I'm also sure that they would be irritated if an atheist, in turn, said something like "god isn't real."

God Bless isn't smug unless said to someone they know is atheist or another religion, but it is definitely presumptuous, particularly in a work environment. Fine with your friends, but you can't assume what people's religions are outside of that.

The "I'll pray for you" (in response to an expression of disbelief) brigade are most definitely the most smug bunch of **** I've ever encountered, though. How utterly belittling.

MrMojoRisin

I'm not an atheist - I'm just someone who has decided he doesn't identify with religion anymore. I haven't gone to mass in years.

The Bible was not intended to tell us anything about scientific theories (theories which best explain, and form the bedrock of, the universe we inhabit) and I think it's usual to assume that, where the likes of the Bible conflicts with common sense (which is more often than not the case), it can only be described as being allegorical.

I still believe in something 'divine'. It has feck all to do with religion though.

I can see what the OP means about atheism being an attractive accessory of late. To each idiot their own. If their own personal business is worth minding, I'm happy to let them mind it.

AudreyHepburn

krudler wrote: »

Why not just say "enjoy the rest of your day" then?

Tbh I really doubt that she says it to be offensive or out of malice. It doesn't necessarily mean she is asking God to bless anyone, she's just wishing callers well. It's two little words, is it really that big a deal?

Do those who find this offensive, get annoyed when people say 'God bless you' when they sneeze? How about when some-one 'Jeus Christ!' or 'For God's sake'?

It's only words at the end of the day.

philologos

krudler wrote: »

Why not just say "enjoy the rest of your day" then?

Precisely because God bless often comes more naturally. If people get offended at that I would really question their sensitivity to be frank with you. Unless you wish to secularise the English language too?

Edit: liah, I agree on vocalising "I'll pray for you". However, what do you make of people actually praying for those around them in private? Is the idea offensive? Or just the vocalisation?

krudler

liah wrote: »

God Bless isn't smug unless said to someone they know is atheist or another religion, but it is definitely presumptuous, particularly in a work environment. Fine with your friends, but you can't assume what people's religions are outside of that.

The "I'll pray for you" (in response to an expression of disbelief) brigade are most definitely the most smug bunch of **** I've ever encountered, though. How utterly belittling.

This same woman has told me that she doesnt believe dinosaurs existed. That ranks her pretty high on the stupid scale with me.

midlandsmissus

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yes, because it's the truth! the whole "religion is comforting" thing is a cop-out.

Sure, the other side of the coin, they are told if they don't adhere to the beliefs of the church that they will burn for all eternity. Ridiculous!

Sure not being alive won't matter to them after they die. After all, it never mattered to them for the millions of years before they were born!

This is what I don't get about atheists. They can't seem to comprehend that you can believe in God and NOT be part of the Catholic church. And they don't want to talk to you when they can't use all their catholic church/bible arguments.

The amount of times I've gone round and round in this argument with atheists on boards.

Me: I believe in God

Atheist: your church says if you do (insert whatever) that you'll burn in hell for all eternity!! Agh other catholic fermongering arguments - another regular is "your bible says this - look how stupid and contradictory it is!!

Me: I'm not a Catholic (or any religion)

Atheist - stumped.

krudler

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Tbh I really doubt that she says it to be offensive or out of malice. It doesn't necessarily mean she is asking God to bless anyone, she's just wishing callers well. It's two little words, is it really that big a deal?

Do those who find this offensive, get annoyed when people say 'God bless you' when they sneeze? How about when some-one 'Jeus Christ!' or 'For God's sake'?

It's only words at the end of the day.

There is no god and you're a moron for believing in the notion.

You cant get offended at that, its only words at the end of the day.

Ickle Magoo

Jakkass wrote: »

I'm not offended in the slightest by what you or others post. You are entitled to your views, but your views are subject to criticism. Ultimately, people shouldn't feel like they have to hide who they are. As for who I am, I am a Christian, I won't hide this nor should I make it "private". That was largely my point. I wouldn't expect this of atheists. Perhaps some atheists would be happy to make it a private matter, and perhaps saying that none would was gratuitous. However this "private matter" lark, is just not going to happen.

But yes, I feel that it would be inhuman to regard my Christianity as a private matter. I've had the pleasure of having lots of amazing conversations with non-believers about Christianity, and them about their position on the world while being at university for example.

Well, by private I mean whomever they wish to pray to or believe created the earth is entirely up to them, again, discussion are great and we've had a few crackers - the only time it gets on my wick is when theists try to impose their own party's beliefs on other people either through trying to dictate law/statute & evangelising in state buildings or knocking on my door - because I deem spreading rumours that condoms cause AIDs and the gay people who want relations are destined for hell, loping off parts of babies genitals and refusing children life-saving medical treatment as being inhumane, etc, etc. Outside of that kind of stuff, I couldn't give a monkeys whether people choose to believe in a marshmallow man creating the world or no. :cool:

MrMojoRisin

krudler wrote: »

Why not just say "enjoy the rest of your day" then? or specify which god they mean? Odin? Thor? Loki? Judeo-Christian?

"God bless" is probably just a force of habit for some people. They say it unthinkingly. It's like how someone sneezes and someone usually says to them, "Bless you" or "God bless you". I just thought how weird that is actually - blessing someone because they involuntarily hurled snot everywhere.

Imagine saying "Bless you" or "God bless you" when someone farts.

Galvasean

MrStuffins wrote: »

This is another problem I have. Just because someone does not completely adhere to your beliefs and perhaps questions them, does not mean they are disrespecting them.

Reminds me of this cartoon:


I think a lot of religious people like to claim anyone who questions their beliefs is lacking in respect. IMO this is simply a cop-out to avoid having to engage in a debate. It's not disrespectful to question someone's beliefs if you think they are misguided.

liah

Jakkass wrote: »

Precisely because God bless often comes more naturally. If people get offended at that I would really question their sensitivity to be frank with you. Unless you wish to secularise the English language too?

Edit: liah, I agree on vocalising "I'll pray for you". However, what do you make of people actually praying for those around them in private? Is the idea offensive? Or just the vocalisation?

Oddly, it's the vocalisation that makes it offensive to me. Fine, do whatever you like and think whatever you like in your own time, but if I've expressed that I do not believe in god I would like that to be respected.

It's the need to rub it in my face that comes across as smug and condescending, this "well I know the truth and you, lowly peon, do not, so I'll pray to get you into heaven 'cuz god knows you're not getting there on your own, and I'm going to rub it in your face that I think so" thing.

If they did it privately I'd have no way of knowing and would at least respect them for considering my feelings and keeping their thoughts to themselves. At least then, I'd know that they're only doing it because they truly believe it to be the right thing to do, not to try and get a one-up on me and put me down.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense, it's kind of hard to explain?

AudreyHepburn

krudler wrote: »

There is no god and you're a moron for believing in the notion.

You cant get offended at that, its only words at the end of the day.

There's a difference between wishing some-one well and insulting them.

But no, that doesn't offend me because I know you're only saying to make it seem my point is unreasonable.

philologos

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Well, by private I mean whomever they wish to pray to or believe created the earth is entirely up to them, again, discussion are great and we've had a few crackers - the only time it gets on my wick is when theists try to impose their own party's beliefs on other people either through trying to dictate law/statute & evangelising in state buildings or knocking on my door - because I deem spreading rumours that condoms cause AIDs and the gay people who want relations are destined for hell, loping off parts of babies genitals and refusing children life-saving medical treatment as being inhumane, etc, etc. Outside of that kind of stuff, I couldn't give a monkeys whether people choose to believe in a marshmallow man creating the world or no. :cool:

No Christian will ever agree with "in private". It's wholly unreasonable, and even in opposition to Western freedoms. As for dictating law or statute, this would be an entirely different discussion to claiming that belief should be "private" but rather that the Government should consider ideas on merit rather than favouritism. That seems reasonable to me.

If you disagree with peoples views, just call them out on it. It's not the States role to nanny discourse.

krudler

midlandsmissus wrote: »

This is what I don't get about atheists. They can't seem to comprehend that you can believe in God and NOT be part of the Catholic church. And they don't want to talk to you when they can't use all their catholic church/bible arguments.

The amount of times I've gone round and round in this argument with atheists on boards.

Me: I believe in God

Atheist: your church says if you do (insert whatever) that you'll burn in hell for all eternity!! Agh other catholic fermongering arguments - another regular is "your bible says this - look how stupid and contradictory it is!!

Me: I'm not a Catholic (or any religion)

Atheist - stumped.

And the flipside to that is:

believer: I believe in god

athiest: which one?

believer: ....

liah

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

"God bless" is probably just a force of habit for some people. They say it unthinkingly. It's like how someone sneezes and someone usually says to them, "Bless you" or "God bless you". I just thought how weird that is actually - blessing someone because they involuntarily hurled snot everywhere.

Imagine saying "Bless you" or "God bless you" when someone farts.

They say it when you sneeze because of some old thought that that was evil spirits escaping or something. Or at least, I believe that's where the tradition began.

If that is the case you'd figure they'd say it for farts, too.. farts seem so much more demonic than sneezes. :pac:

Galvasean

krudler wrote: »

This same woman has told me that she doesnt believe dinosaurs existed. That ranks her pretty high on the stupid scale with me.

Every time a child says "I don't believe in dinosaurs, one drops dead."

midlandsmissus wrote: »

This is what I don't get about atheists. They can't seem to comprehend that you can believe in God and NOT be part of the Catholic church.

Seriously, WTF do you be talking about sometimes?

Turtwig

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

It's only words at the end of the day.

Not when someone is trying to take your breath away.;)

midlandsmissus

Galvasean wrote: »

Reminds me of this cartoon:


I think a lot of religious people like to claim anyone who questions their beliefs is lacking in respect. IMO this is simply a cop-out to avoid having to engage in a debate. It's not disrespectful to question someone's beliefs if you think they are misguided.

How come atheists are so often on the offence and rarely on the defence then?

Maybe because spiritual people are more respectful of other's beliefs?

I could think of a load of things I could question you about the intricacies of atheism, but I choose not to as I think 'live and let live'., and I think everyone is on their own learning path and I respect that.

Who are you to tell some-one else they are misguided?

krudler

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

There's a difference between wishing some-one well and insulting them.

But no, that doesn't offend me because I know you're only saying to make it seem my point is unreasonable.

I am wishing you well, hopefully you'll see there is no god and start living a more fulfilling, godless life, its wonderful, come on in, waters lovely :pac:

JohnathanM

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

Imagine saying "Bless you" or "God bless you" when someone farts.

Comes from the first symptoms of the black death, IIRC. Shaming farting wasn't up there. Still, the common "you filthy fu**ing b*astard!" does the trick.

MrMojoRisin

liah wrote: »

Oddly, it's the vocalisation that makes it offensive to me. [...]

If they did it privately I'd have no way of knowing and would at least respect them for considering my feelings and keeping their thoughts to themselves. At least then, I'd know that they're only doing it because they truly believe it to be the right thing to do, not to try and get a one-up on me and put me down.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense, it's kind of hard to explain?

No, I get that. It isn't that laborious for some people to simply keep their mouths shut and carry on with their lives. Focus on 'doing God's work'. :rolleyes:

By talking about how they'll pray for you to get into heaven because you don't believe in God, etc, is just being openly judgemental. People can be silently judgemental just as easily, too.

MrStuffins

midlandsmissus wrote: »

This is what I don't get about atheists. They can't seem to comprehend that you can believe in God and NOT be part of the Catholic church. And they don't want to talk to you when they can't use all their catholic church/bible arguments.

What a ridiculous thing to say? What ever gave you that idea?

You quoted me, so i presume you were talking to me.

If you go back and read the thread, you will see why i am using the RCC as an example.

To say that all Athiests cant differentiate between the RCC and other religions is a silly thing to say TBH!

At this point, the fact that people are wading in head first without actually reading the thread is becoming tiresome!

Mr. Loverman

I'm an athiest.

It puzzles me greatly that the majority of the world choose to delude themselves by believing obvious fantasy.

I don't consider this smugness; I get no satisfaction knowing the majority of the world are deluded. It actually depresses me.

AudreyHepburn

krudler wrote: »

I am wishing you well, hopefully you'll see there is no god and start living a more fulfilling, godless life, its wonderful, come on in, waters lovely :pac:

Stop trying to get a rise out of me

Ridley

krudler wrote: »

And the flipside to that is:

believer: I believe in god

athiest: which one?

believer: ....

Only Zuuuuuul!

philologos

MrMojoRisin: I don't know how believing that one needs to believe in Christ to be saved is judgemental. Rather it seems to be just believing it to be the case. Could you elaborate on your reasoning please?

Mr. Loverman: One could equally claim that people are deluded for not believing. It's a woeful argument really to throw around 'deluded' as a hot potato.

krudler

Galvasean wrote: »

Every time a child says "I don't believe in dinosaurs, one drops dead."

Honestly though, how in the name of Odin can someone not believe in dinosaurs? I remember that woman that said to me and a few others who were sitting around at the time and the look of sheer stunning disbelief on everyones faces was hilarious. I asked why she didnt and this was her response "well they cant prove it, sure nobody was around back then to see them" I told her go to a museuem and see the bones of said non existant creatures for herself and se said "sure they could have just made them" I just bowed out of the conversation at that point, I could feel the IQ of the room drop and I was afraid I'd catch the stupidity off her.

Ickle Magoo

Jakkass wrote: »

No Christian will ever agree with "in private". It's wholly unreasonable, and even in opposition to Western freedoms. As for dictating law or statute, this would be an entirely different discussion to claiming that belief should be "private" but rather that the Government should consider ideas on merit rather than favouritism. That seems reasonable to me.

If you disagree with peoples views, just call them out on it. It's not the States role to nanny discourse.

Of course not, because their religion depends on recruitment via evangelism and indoctrination to survive - that's it's well planned design. I'd expect no christian to be happy they couldn't start spreading the word at every opportunity - and it's not that I think they shouldn't be able to evangelise, I think there should be certain limitations; namely the deliberate targeting of the vulnerable in their own homes, hospitals and schools to further their cause.

It's not the states role and yet the state does nanny discourse, in this country about 50 years behind the rest of the west with the church very much in its pocket - or perhaps that's visa versa.

I do call out people when I disagree with their views - people calling other out on views is what this thread is all about and you'll notice the volume of theists who think atheists should not dare challenge views or opinions - now that would be a scary world - welcome back to the dark ages.