"no, I'm actually an athiest"

KeithAFC

Caesar Augustus wrote: »

I think you just jumped the shark. I thought after the Godwin post we had reached the peak, evidently I was wrong.

:pac:

lol. Are you seriously telling me you can't speak out against organised religion on Irish TV or Irish Radio in the republic? You can in the UK. Iv seen it lots of times.

It wasn't so much a godwin post but a bit of a reality check with the amount of religious people on the planet. Your just going to get religion in politics.

MrStuffins

KeithAFC wrote: »

Join the UK.

Did you just make a point saying people should be free to express their religious beliefs...... and then tell me to move to Britain to express mine?

Am i imagining things?

Is it just me or are your posts just getting worse and worse?

prinz

Sam Vimes wrote: »

I openly acknowledged that not all christians believe this, I just pointed out that those who don't are not following what the bible actually says but are instead making up their own religion called a-la-carte christianity with the bad bits removed.

I can understand à la carte Catholicism, or à la carte Anglicanism or something but not à la carte Christianity seeing as how denominations do sometimes differ.

optogirl wrote: »

Are we allowed use contraception while we're seizing?

You do whatever you want to do. I don't think you'll be hot by a boltof lightning or bumped of by Silas.

virmilitaris wrote: »

How do you consider worship, going to church, giving your hard earned money to preachers and pastors and going round knocking on doors annoying people to be making the best of life?

You'd have to try it. Then again I have never knocked on someone's door to annoy them about Christianity so I wouldn't know. So you don't think the world would be a better place if people at least tried to live up to Jesus' expectations of us?

Marcus.Aurelius

KeithAFC wrote: »

lol. Are you seriously telling me you can't speak out against organised religion on Irish TV or Irish Radio in the republic? You can in the UK. Iv seen it lots of times.

Well you can, so long as you avoid anything deemed insulting. Some groups will be offended very easily, others at the mere mention of certain facts. I could mention some, but I don't need to.

It wasn't so much a godwin post but a bit of a reality check with the amount of religious people on the planet. Your just going to get religion in politics.

You are most likely correct, but I'd feel ashamed of humanity if someone did not speak up.

strobe

Prinz, start a thread in the Christianity forum entitled "Christianity Teaches A Works Based Salvation" come back and let us know how that goes down. Or here is a similar enough thread if you don't want to start a new one. http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055936056&highlight=catholicism

You appear to be in a tiny minority amongst your fellow Christians {I presume you are Christian}. What do you know that none of them do?

Ush1

KeithAFC wrote: »

lol. Are you seriously telling me you can't speak out against organised religion on Irish TV or Irish Radio in the republic? You can in the UK. Iv seen it lots of times.

It wasn't so much a godwin post but a bit of a reality check with the amount of religious people on the planet. Your just going to get religion in politics.

That's what makes parts of the middle east so awesome, what with the stoning women and what not.

prinz

MrStuffins wrote: »

So there is no proof, just faith, correct?

Depends on what you mean. I have never had a personal face to face meeting, with a kick to the crotch to make sure it's real, if that's what you mean.

Sam Vimes

prinz wrote: »

I can understand à la carte Catholicism, or à la carte Anglicanism or something but not à la carte Christianity seeing as how denominations do sometimes differ.

A-la-carte christianity is where the bible unequivocally states something but it doesn't fit with your own personal view of god so you either just ignore those passages or try to find a passage that contradicts the others and focus on that one as if it erases the others. Really every denomination is an a-la-carte one.

prinz

strobe wrote: »

You appear to be in a tiny minority amongst your fellow Christians {I presume you are Christian}. What do you know that none of them do?

How so? Have I claimed a 'works based salvation'?

Ush1

Sam Vimes wrote: »

A-la-carte christianity is where the bible unequivocally states something but it doesn't fit with your own personal view of god so you either just ignore those passages or try to find a passage that contradicts the others and focus on that one as if it erases the others. Really every denomination is an a-la-carte one.

Westboro Baptist church ftw! They KNOW the bible!:D

prinz

Sam Vimes wrote: »

A-la-carte christianity is where the bible unequivocally states something but it doesn't fit with your own personal view of god so you either just ignore those passages or try to find a passage that contradicts the others and focus on that one as if it erases the others. Really every denomination is an a-la-carte one.

The entire Bible doesn't apply equally to Christians.

Sam Vimes

prinz wrote: »

How so? Have I claimed a 'works based salvation'?

Yes you have. You said that non-christians can go to heaven as long as they follow the law. That is a works based salvation

Sam Vimes

prinz wrote: »

The entire Bible doesn't apply equally to Christians.

Surely the entire bible applies equally to all of mankind, whether they believe it or not? There is only one correct interpretation of the bible and thousands upon thousands of wrong ones

virmilitaris

prinz wrote: »

You'd have to try it. Then again I have never knocked on someone's door to annoy them about Christianity so I wouldn't know. So you don't think the world would be a better place if people at least tried to live up to Jesus' expectations of us?

Again, I fail to see how Jesus is relevant if what you are suggesting is true.

In fact I'd go so far as to suggest that he is far from the best role model. Buddha for one would seem to be at very least his moral equal.

Could you please explain the advantages of following Jesus' expectations of us over the Buddha's in relation to your belief that entrance to heaven is dependent on your life's works and not your beliefs ? accepting Jesus as your savoir after death ?

prinz

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Yes you have. You said that non-christians can go to heaven as long as they obey the law. That is a works based salvation

Wrong. I said non-Christians will have the choice to accept Jesus as a saviour or not.

KeithAFC

Ush1 wrote: »

That's what makes parts of the middle east so awesome, what with the stoning women and what not.

I know. I ain't saying its right mate. But its the reality of the situation. Expecting religion to be a private matter is just naive when you look at the amount of people who follow organised religion.

MrStuffins, it was tounge in cheek. It seems you can say what you want (most of the time) on UK tv or UK radio about religion. It was kind of being put across on here that you can't on Irish TV or radio.

prinz

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Surely the entire bible applies equally to all of mankind, whether they believe it or not?

No Sam, you see I eat pork and the likes.

virmilitaris wrote: »

Could you please explain the advantages of following Jesus' expectations of us over the Buddha's in relation to your belief that entrance to heaven is dependent on your life's works and not your beliefs ?

Jesus is God. How's that? By the by I never said entrance to heaven is dependent on your life's works. I said your life's work can make your life and the world a better place.

MrStuffins

prinz wrote: »

Wrong. I said non-Christians will have the choice to accept Jesus as a saviour or not.

Wait, when? I mean, is it JUST Christians who will get to Heaven? Or will Jesus give us all a chance after we die to follow him?

When will we have this choice?

virmilitaris

prinz wrote: »

Jesus is God. How's that?

Which isn't relevant until after death. You have stated that non-believers can go to heaven if they accept Jesus after death, so what is the point of accepting him beforehand ?

strobe

prinz wrote: »

How so? Have I claimed a 'works based salvation'?

Right here. And I think I picked up on it in another 3 or 4 posts. I'm not going digging through all of them.

prinz wrote: »

You'd still be judged on what you did in life. Christians are going to be judged, and non-Christians.

prinz

MrStuffins wrote: »

Wait, when? I mean, is it JUST Christians who will get to Heaven?

No.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Or will Jesus give us all a chance after we die to follow him??

Yes. IMO.

MrStuffins wrote: »

When will we have this choice?

Some time post mortem I would assume.

Sam Vimes

prinz wrote: »

Wrong. I said non-Christians will have the choice to accept Jesus as a saviour or not.

The passage of the bible that you quoted to me says "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous".

And I really don't see where you're getting the idea that I'm going to be presented with incontrovertible evidence for the existence of Jesus and then given a chance to change my mind. Firstly because I've never seen anything in the bible that suggests this and secondly because it makes the whole thing pointless. If someone knew for a fact that they had a choice between eternal paradise at no cost and eternal damnation, why would anyone choose the latter And why are christians forced to spend their entire lives believing by faith and why are they told that doing so is a virtue if all non-believers are going to be given a no brainer chance to change their minds once all doubt is removed?

prinz

virmilitaris wrote: »

Which isn't relevant until after death. You have stated that non-believers can go to heaven if they accept Jesus after death, so what is the point of accepting him beforehand ?

Facepalm. To make the world before death a little more bearable.

strobe wrote: »

Right here. And I think I picked up on it in another 3 or 4 posts. I'm not going digging through all of them.

Yes. But you can be judged post salvation. ... being judge does not preclude being saved.

Sam Vimes

prinz wrote: »

No Sam, you see I eat pork and the likes.

Yes the ceremonial laws of the old testament are interpreted as not applying to christians. I was talking about the new testament. Does that apply equally to everyone?

prinz

Sam Vimes wrote: »

If someone knew for a fact that they had a choice between eternal paradise and eternal damnation, why would anyone choose the latter

Ever read the story of Lucifer? He was in paradise and still wasn't happy.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

And why are christians forced to spend their entire lives believing by faith and why are they told that doing so is a virtue if all non-believers are going to be given a no brainer choice once all doubt is removed?

Not forced. Choose. Anywho, I'm off, someone has to make the dinner etc.

MrStuffins

prinz wrote: »

Yes. IMO.

Ah, so according to you, it's ok for me to spend my whole life rejecting Jesus and all of the fun things i'm supposed to avoid doing, because i'll get a chance to repent after i die.

Win-win for me so!

strobe

prinz wrote: »

Yes. But you can be judged post salvation. ... being judge does not preclude being saved.

But you believe people will be judged based on what they have done in their lives? How is that not a works based salvation?

Sam Vimes

prinz wrote: »

Ever read the story of Lucifer? He was in paradise and still wasn't happy.

Yes I've heard it, he wanted to be above god. Do you honestly think that's why 5/6 of the people on the planet don't believe in the christian god?

prinz wrote: »

Not forced. Choose.

What's the point giving a choice based on nothing but a magic story in an old book if everyone is going to presented with incontrovertible proof as soon as they die and given a straight choice between paradise and torture?

virmilitaris

prinz wrote: »

Facepalm. To make before death a little more bearable.

What ?

I happen to enjoy my life, free of any religion. I'm married to a beautiful woman, I'm completing my studies, I've traveled a great deal of this planet, I eat well, I have good friends and I generally enjoy my life.

What is it with religious people believing that without their religion that life is somehow unbearable ?

What possible difference would accepting Jesus make to me ?

I don't want to go to church, I don't want to read the bible, I don't want to pray and I don't want to take anything on faith alone.

Doing any of the above would make my life less comfortable.

Blackhorse Slim

I'm starting to like the sound of Prinz's religion.

What do you call it?