PhD Financing

gerry87

I don't know much about the whole PhD situation, but just had a couple of questions about financing one. I finished a masters (finance) last year and I really enjoyed my dissertation topic. I'd love to do a PhD in the area at some stage, but I've recently been thinking about applying for one sooner rather than waiting a few years. I'd like to do one abroad, but thats not a huge issue.

I'm wondering is if it's a realistic thing to be thinking about now, financially and all that, being a recent grad with no savings...

How much does it generally cost to do one, all in?
How do students tend to finance themselves, do they normally save up a good chunk of savings to be able to live off it for the few years or end up with massive debt?
I've seen some mention of funding and stipends, is this common or is it only on a scholarship basis? Also would the funding situation be different internationally?

Are there any other things I should be considering with all this?

Thanks!

Fremen

Typically getting accepted to do a PhD is the easy part. Getting funding is what's hard. PhD students usually have their fees waived, and are given a grant. It amounts to a low-wage job, but it's enough to live on. In the UK, it's typically just over £13,000 a year. It can be much higher in other places. I've seen offers of e24,000 rising to 30,000 in the netherlands, but I've also heard of e6,000 in italy. Whoever's supervising your project will be in a position to tell you.

The majority of students go straight into a PhD from a master's/B.Sc, though there are many other routes.

If you've read and enjoyed someone's paper, google them and just drop them a line. Make the e-mail personal and specific. In all likelihood, they won't have funding, but you never know. Besides, they will know others in their field who might be able to help.

I found my current position on http://www.findaphd.com/. It's definitely worth a look.

El Siglo

I'm in Belfast, primarily self-funded (fees paid by DEL). There's a snag with a lot (not all, but a lot) of PhDs in the UK, you need to be British to receive full funding (fees funding + nice £13,000 stipend per annum). It's precarious to say the least, so get used to being poor.

Fremen

Yeah, that regulation is a massive pain in the arse. Many universities have a small amount of funding set aside to get around that, like Warwick's CRiSM fund, for example. This isn't a great time for applications though - many UK universities are in dire straights financially.
Other than that, some companies sponsor PhDs - that's how I got my place. I'd be happy to talk more about what I'm doing over PM, but I'm not crazy about broadcasting it to the internet

gerry87

Ok, so fees can be waived and sometimes there is a stipend. Is this stipend earned through tutoring or anything like that or is it usually possible to supplement income through tutoring/grinds etc. (i.e. would you have enough free time to give grinds on the side?).

I realise applying and getting accepted is a whole other element, how do people tend to form an opinion on where to apply to? Is it, as you say, based mostly on the person you want to be your supervisor? I've been planning on sitting the GMAT and using the score to give an indication of what sort of places to apply, though it seems a bit superficial as a method of choosing.

csm

I wouldn't bother with the GMAT. Your bachelor and master degree performance will provide a better indication of your ability.

Agree that if you liked your dissertation project, send an email to the authors of papers you read and liked. Follow up with a phone call a week later if you don't hear from them. They will advise and guide you on what type of funding is available.

It's a long, hard slog and unless you have a burning desire to do one I wouldn't bother as you'll need that desire to get through the low points. I would also do one as early as possible in your career. As you get older you may find the drop in income too much to take, especially if you have dependents etc.

gerry87

csm wrote: »

I wouldn't bother with the GMAT. Your bachelor and master degree performance will provide a better indication of your ability.

Agree that if you liked your dissertation project, send an email to the authors of papers you read and liked. Follow up with a phone call a week later if you don't hear from them. They will advise and guide you on what type of funding is available.

It's a long, hard slog and unless you have a burning desire to do one I wouldn't bother as you'll need that desire to get through the low points. I would also do one as early as possible in your career. As you get older you may find the drop in income too much to take, especially if you have dependents etc.

The reason for the GMAT is that a lot of courses seem to have it as a requirement, also I did it previously and I got low-ish compared to degree/masters results so I'd say at the moment it would be a bit of a black mark on my application. Plus I think (hope!) i can do better.

I'll have to have a good look around for supervisors, the authors I used for my dissertation were mostly from a physics, not finance so I'm not sure that would be any use. Is it the general consensus that supervisor > university?

I really don't doubt how much of a slog it is, but I'd be willing to go through it as long as I was able to get by financially.

csm

Well I should qualify my comments by saying I'm in scientific research, which is a different animal from finance. Although my first degree was actuarial maths so I have had some exposure.

In science, primarily supervisor > university. With a good supervisor you will be exposed to the best and brightest in the field, you'll probably be part of a vibrant research group, and you'll be doing the type of work you want to do.

My limited experience of finance though would suggest, however, that the university is more important. I went to several graduate showcases by major London banks in Dublin, and they made it clear that TCD was preferred followed by UCD and then the rest. Grades were important of course, but they get a lot of applications and they have to weed them out somehow, so if they got 100 applications from people with firsts, it was easier to filter by university. As a result, several people I know have made the name of the Uni the most important thing when looking for further qualifications.

Why do you want to do a PhD? If it's to get a job in the City (eg Quant) then university is more important. If it's to try for a career in academic research then I would say the right supervisor is more important.

I'm quite surprised that PhD programmes would require a GMAT score for entry. I could understand that a master's would but not a PhD. Guess you'll have to do it so!

brianthebard

Fremen wrote: »

Typically getting accepted to do a PhD is the easy part. Getting funding is what's hard. PhD students usually have their fees waived, and are given a grant.

That's definitely the goal but I wouldn't say its even close to guaranteed that someone will get funding for their phd, especially with the cutbacks that have been inflicted lately.

gerry87 wrote: »

Ok, so fees can be waived and sometimes there is a stipend. Is this stipend earned through tutoring or anything like that or is it usually possible to supplement income through tutoring/grinds etc. (i.e. would you have enough free time to give grinds on the side?).

Stipend is generally provided by universities or IRCHSS/IRCSET or similar funding bodies. You can offer grinds privately. Tutoring in university is a different situation and can be difficult to obtain, especially in the first year or two.

gerry87

csm wrote: »

Well I should qualify my comments by saying I'm in scientific research, which is a different animal from finance. Although my first degree was actuarial maths so I have had some exposure.

In science, primarily supervisor > university. With a good supervisor you will be exposed to the best and brightest in the field, you'll probably be part of a vibrant research group, and you'll be doing the type of work you want to do.

My limited experience of finance though would suggest, however, that the university is more important. I went to several graduate showcases by major London banks in Dublin, and they made it clear that TCD was preferred followed by UCD and then the rest. Grades were important of course, but they get a lot of applications and they have to weed them out somehow, so if they got 100 applications from people with firsts, it was easier to filter by university. As a result, several people I know have made the name of the Uni the most important thing when looking for further qualifications.

Why do you want to do a PhD? If it's to get a job in the City (eg Quant) then university is more important. If it's to try for a career in academic research then I would say the right supervisor is more important.

I'm quite surprised that PhD programmes would require a GMAT score for entry. I could understand that a master's would but not a PhD. Guess you'll have to do it so!

I know, it's odd that such a small test could carry enough weight to discount degree results, but I guess it is more a measure of ability whereas course results could be just a function of effort. Average scores seem to be in the mid 700's for top US schools, which is mid 90th percentiles... a big ask!

As for why it's almost split 50/50 between the two you mentioned, I'd love a quant type position (admittedly my perspective is from the outside looking in) but also the whole lecturing and doing research into how it all works etc. seems interesting.

csm

It's probably because it is standardised, rather than better at showing your ability.
Your ability will come out way more over the course of a degree than a short test, but the employer won't be able to compare test results from one university against another.

PhDs are MUCH more about effort than ability. I would definitely value work ethic more than ability. Once the candidate has a certain baseline talent of course!

Good luck with it anyway. Start making those phone calls and hopefully you'll turn something up.