Gaeltacht Quarter in Belfast now- next Derry!!!

orourkeda

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

No.



No, but these posts do.

As a matter of interest what are the listenership numbers for Radio Na Gaeltacht and the viewership numbers for TG4. These are the broadcasters that I was speaking of.

To me, spending twelve to thirteen years being taught a language and being unable to speak it fluently at the end of it is off the wall. Absolutely off the wall. Now if you believe that this makes me a "disgruntled teenager" fair enough. If that's what you believe fine.

To illustrate just how ineffective the teacking of irish is, My future brother in law lived in Italy for a time and went there with barely a word of Italian. Within a year he was fluent.

The fault may lie with the education system for this. If it is why do we persist in throwing money at the problem and not correcting it. Then again, it's not entirely the fault of the education system alone that irish isnt the most widely spoken language in this country.

DJP

Wibbs wrote: »

Lets face facts, neither of you are exactly covering yourself in glory, mature or otherwise. Though I have to say orourkeda is well ahead on objective observation of the reality on the ground.

Given the three posts I quoted then you are delusional in thinking that he is objective. I wouldn't like to see you give out advice to patients if you were a doctor.

gurramok

orourkeda wrote: »

How can a language be relevant to you if you can barely speak it. That makes little or no sense to me.

Its relevant as its part of our national identity. Generations of people have been screwed by the education system through bad teaching of the Irish language. Just because alot cannot speak it doesn't mean its not relevant, we want to keep it.

Cavehill Red

What are your psychiatric qualifications, Darren?

orourkeda

gurramok wrote: »

Its relevant as its part of our national identity. Generations of people have been screwed by the education system through bad teaching of the Irish language. Just because alot cannot speak it doesn't mean its not relevant, we want to keep it.

Irish isnt a true living breathing language. It's more of an academic chore. Consequently, I don't believe we can claim it as a true component of national identity. It's part of it, but it's not english to the english or french to the french. With the problems that have been identified with the curriculum, isn't it better that we rectify them and give students a chance of learning the language properly than persisting with a system that clearly isnt working.

DJP

orourkeda wrote: »

Irish isnt a true living breathing language. It's more of an academic chore.

What about the people who speak Irish as their first language and people who like me continue to speak Irish after they have left school? How can the languge not be a "ture breathing language" and how can it more "more of an academic chore" to us. I stand over what I said. You are immature. I am going to try not and debate with you anymore.

orourkeda

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

Given the three posts I quoted then you are delusional in thinking that he is objective. I wouldn't like to see you give out advice to patients if you were a doctor.

Firstly, it was YOU that started passing remarks in this thread. Nobody else. Pontificating on my perceived lack of objectivity isn't what this thread is about.

Now I've outlined what I meant by those posts. If you'd care to answer what I've said rather than dispensing medical advise.

I have no problem if you disagree with every word I say. Thats not really the issue.

DJP

orourkeda wrote: »

If you'd care to answer what I've said rather than dispensing medical advise.

I have no problem if you disagree with every word I say. Thats not really the issue.

The issue in question if you can call it an issue is that you have been hoarding this thread with inaccurate posts that are lies at worst.

orourkeda

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

What about the people who speak Irish as their first language and people who like me continue to speak Irish after they have left school? How can the languge not be a "ture breathing language" and how can it more "more of an academic chore" to us. I stand over what I said. You are immature. I am going to try not and debate with you anymore.

If it wasnt for Irish in school I would never have been exposed to the irish language in any way. I have never met anyone who used irish as a first language. I'm not saying this to annoy you but simply articulating that fact that irish as a means of communicating with the people around me didnt exist for me as I grew up. I'm not suggesting it doesnt happen but I would suggest that people who do are very much in the minority.

When I say that the irish language is an academic chore what I meant was that my experience of the irish language was a series of tests, exams and classes rather than it being the living breathing language that I mentioned.

DJP

orourkeda wrote: »

If it wasnt for Irish in school I would never have been exposed to the irish language in any way. I have never met anyone who used irish as a first language. I'm not saying this to annoy but simply articulating that fact that irish as a means of communicating with the people around me didnt exist for me as I grew up. I'm not suggesting it doesnt happen but I would suggest that people who do are very much in the minority.

When I say that the irish language is an academic chore this is what I meant was that my experience of the irish language was a series of tests, exams and classes rather than it being the living breathing language that I mentioned.

This is why I called you immature or very young. You are unable to get past "your experience" and keep on thinking it is the experience of everyone.

orourkeda

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

The issue in question if you can call it an issue is that you have been hoarding this thread with inaccurate posts that are lies at worst.

OK. Please highlight my lies and inaccuracies and dismantle them with the truth.

I need enlightening.

orourkeda

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

This is why I called you immature or very young. You are unable to get past "your experience" and keep on thinking it is the experience of everyone.

It may not be the experience of everyone but it is the experience of the sizable majority. If you can prove me wrong then fair enough.

DJP

orourkeda wrote: »

OK. Please highlight my lies and inaccuracies and dismantle them with the truth.

I need enlightening.

.

orourkeda wrote: »

We even have TV stations that nobody watches and radio station that nobody listens to in order to promote our dead national language.

orourkeda wrote: »

Irish is dead. Trust me. It's dead.

orourkeda

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

This is why I called you immature or very young. You are unable to get past "your experience" and keep on thinking it is the experience of everyone.

I'm a 33 year old who cant speak irish, doesnt want to speak irish and has had zero practical experience of the language since doing the leaving cert 16 years ago.

These are the facts. If you want to call me immature because my experiences differ from yours than so be it.

DJP

orourkeda wrote: »

I'm a 33 year old who cant speak irish, doesnt want to speak irish and has had zero practical experience of the language since doing the leaving cert 16 years ago.

These are the facts. If you want to call me immature because my experiences differ from yours than so be it.

No I called you immature because you keep on hoarding this thread with the rubbish that your view is the view of us all. You don't speak for me and the thousands of other Irish speakers in the country (who do watch TG4) and you don't speak for the silent majority who like Irish.

orourkeda

When I said dead perhaps I should have said in a coma or on life support.

As I've asked you already, are R Na G and TG4 widely viewed and listened to entities.

Cavehill Red

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

you don't speak for the silent majority who like Irish.

That's tremendously amusing.
He doesn't speak for the silent majority because you do? Bless.

DJP

orourkeda wrote: »

When I said dead perhaps I should have said in a coma or on life support.

As I've asked you already, are R Na G and TG4 widely viewed and listened to entities.

You said that nobody watches TG4 and nobody listens to RnaG. If you were a media commentator speaking in the national media you would not be taken seriously. I don't find the need to take you seriously either and won't until I see that you have copped on.

DJP

Cavehill Red wrote: »

That's tremendously amusing.
He doesn't speak for the silent majority because you do? Bless.

Given that I like Irish I am more representative of the silent majority on this topic then he is- without wanting to blow my own trumpet (you brought it up).

orourkeda

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

No I called you immature because you keep on hoarding this thread with the rubbish that your view is the view of us all. You don't speak for me and the thousands of other Irish speakers in the country (who do watch TG4) and you don't speak for the silent majority who like Irish.

I never once suggested that I was speaking on behalf of anyone else. That is clearly incorrect. I wasnt.

I can only speak from my own experience.

Cavehill Red

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

Given that I like Irish I am more representative of the silent majority on this topic then he is- without wanting to blow my own trumpet (you brought it up).

If the silent majority is silent, then how do you know whether you are representative of them or not?

orourkeda

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

You said that nobody watches TG4 and nobody listens to RnaG. If you were a media commentator speaking in the national media you would not be taken seriously. I don't find the need to take you seriously either and won't until I see that you have copped on.

You've taken my comments about these stations literally. I didnt mean that they have ZERO listeners per se. I meant that their listenership is fairly insignificant in terms of market share. Although, I am open to correction if figures can be provided to prove me wrong.

I'm not a media commentator and don't pretend to me a media commentator which is why I've asked for listenership figures for these stations. Are you a media commentator or journalist?

I can only intimate from your remarks that you will not take me seriously until I agree with you. THIS IS THE REAL SHOW OF IMMATURITY. It also begs me to ask why should I take you seriously if this is your attitude.

orourkeda

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

Given that I like Irish I am more representative of the silent majority on this topic then he is- without wanting to blow my own trumpet (you brought it up).

How do you know? This remark is rather arrogant in that you believe that you speak on behalf of a silent majority of irish people.

Wibbs

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

This is why I called you immature or very young. You are unable to get past "your experience" and keep on thinking it is the experience of everyone.

The irony.

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

and you don't speak for the silent majority who like Irish.

That's the problem. The silent part. Oh sure, walk down any street in Ireland and pose the leading question(and it's always a leading question) "do you think Irish should be preserved as part of our heritage?" and you will get a near majority of Irish people saying yes. Try asking them the same question as Gaeilge. See the problem?

A certain section of ardent Gaelgoirs have hijacked the language and screwed it as much as the education system. People may like the idea of the language, may even send their kids to learn through it for the right reasons, but people know when they're being bullshítted too. They can sniff when this stuff is forced, when its artificial, when its done for the sake of being seen to be doing something.

The fact is no amount of wasted money, nor EU official language recognition*, nor rhetoric will grow the language. The Irish people will grow the language, or they won't. It is not going to die out any time soon, but it's growth is very much still up for grabs.


*frankly a farce. The only EU nation where the "official" language is only spoken fluently on a daily basis by 1-2% of the population. It costs us big money too.

dlofnep

orourkeda wrote: »

In the grand scheme of things the irish language is way down the pecking order of priorities. To mention healthcare and the irish language in the same thread is a patent absurdity. If healthcare isnt a pressing matter then I dont know what is. I just hope that you dont think the irish language is as important an issue as this. This is my logic. If you think thats a "logic fail" as you call it, what can I say.

My post obviously went over your head.

My point wasn't to equate the importance of the Irish language with Healthcare. My point was that, regardless of what the issue is - there can always be an argument for something being more pressing than something else. What you are doing is disingenously creating an "Irish language or Healthcare" choice. Such a thing does not exist.

You may not view the Irish language as something important, or even relevant - But you do not speak on behalf of the Irish people, and therefore - your views on it are entirely subjective.

Nodin

orourkeda wrote: »

If irish wasnt rammed up our arses in school we could finally bury it and have its funeral

All together now....Awwwwwwwww

orourkeda

dlofnep wrote: »

My post obviously went over your head.

My point wasn't to equate the importance of the Irish language with Healthcare. My point was that, regardless of what the issue is - there can always be an argument for something being more pressing than something else. What you are doing is disingenously creating an "Irish language or Healthcare" choice. Such a thing does not exist.

You may not view the Irish language as something important, or even relevant - But you do not speak on behalf of the Irish people, and therefore - your views on it are entirely subjective.

Doesn't the relevance of a particular issue depend on the person you're speaking to.

My point was that at the present time we have more important things on our plate than the creation of gaeltacht quarters in our towns and cities. In a country where roughly 13% of the population are unemployed we need to get our priorities straight I think you'll agree. How an individual cares to rank the importance of issues isn't the issue.

Again the claim that I speak on behalf of the irish people is clearly ridiculous. I have never claimed this anywhere in this thread. This is disingenous too.

Wibbs

dlofnep wrote: »

What you are doing is disingenously creating an "Irish language or Healthcare" choice. Such a thing does not exist.

I would agree for the most part. Would however feel that as belt tightening is needed, areas which are important and impact everyone need to be put above those that are less so and don't. Indeed if Irish is spoken and appreciated by as many on a daily basis as some in the thread have suggested(in the half million mark) then removing the more wasteful financial props can hardly damage it.

You may not view the Irish language as something important, or even relevant - But you do not speak on behalf of the Irish people, and therefore - your views on it are entirely subjective.

But the same accusation can be leveled at any side in this. I'm trying to look at the reality. Yes there is a current resurgence in interest in the language and the Irish schools being the most relevant and obvious, but what is also obvious is that it is still very much the minority language of the majority of the people in this nation. Regardless of what people will say if polled. Like I said, try polling people in Irish in any street in the country and you'll see the reality very clearly. I reckon you would be very lucky if you got even one in ten across the Irish demographic who would be able to respond to any degree of fluency and more like one in twenty would be fully fluent.

Bottle_of_Smoke

It is interesting to see the counties that remain a part of the UK appear to be leading the way when it actually comes to speaking the language and putting logical measures into place to encourage its use.

A few times in Belfast I've overheard the table beside me speaking as gaelige. Once even a bartender heard my accent and started talking to me, I felt like a right twat explaining I'm a product of the free state education system.

I hate the current situation, majority of pupils don't want to know because they're forced to study it. The minority who go to gaelscoileanna speak it perfectly but because they didn't go to English schools they simply cannot comprehend how futile the current system is, and continue to support mandatory status.

It's a bit radical and I'm sure there'll be criticism but I think the most logical way forward would be to make all primary schools gaelscoil. Basically giving people a free second language. I also think learning a second language at this age would make it easier to learn foreign languages too.

Then have it completely optional for secondary. Though as everyone will be fluent it will undoubtedly be a popular subject.

Wibbs

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

It's a bit radical and I'm sure there'll be criticism but I think the most logical way forward would be to make all primary schools gaelscoil.

I agree it would make a big diff alright. Problem is where will you get the teachers to be able to do this in every primary school in all subjects? That's gonna take time and money and isnt even close to practical at the moment. Plus it could well reduce the expertise of the teaching staff if the primary requirement was very good conversational Irish in their teaching subjects. It's gonna be a very small pool. I went to school with a guy whose first language actually was Irish(he was from Donegal) and I recall him saying listening to all but one of Irish teachers in the school was beyond painful. Their fluency was low. Enough to pass the written exams at the time, but no way were they conversational. He had himself excused from Irish class in the end.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Wibbs wrote: »

I agree it would make a big diff alright. Problem is where will you get the teachers to be able to do this in every primary school in all subjects? That's gonna take time and money and isnt even close to practical at the moment. Plus it could well reduce the expertise of the teaching staff if the primary requirement was very good conversational Irish in their teaching subjects. It's gonna be a very small pool. I went to school with a guy whose first language actually was Irish(he was from Donegal) and I recall him saying listening to all but one of Irish teachers in the school was beyond painful. Their fluency was low. Enough to pass the written exams at the time, but no way were they conversational. He had himself excused from Irish class in the end.

I hear what you're saying. However don't all primary teachers have to be able to teach Irish? I'm sure that would require a decent level. I acknowledge what your mate was saying but then again kids love complaining about that kind of thing.

Perhaps intense 2-month gaelige courses over the summer would bring these teachers up to the required level.

It could also be phased in, say in the first year of introduction it would only apply to junior/senior infants or only to a certain amount of schools, so there'd be a transitional stage.

dlofnep

orourkeda wrote: »

My point was that at the present time we have more important things on our plate than the creation of gaeltacht quarters in our towns and cities. In a country where roughly 13% of the population are unemployed we need to get our priorities straight I think you'll agree.

Firstly, alot of these centres are community-run centres. Not only that, they provide employment for many people in the area, with a bookshop, a restaurant and classes. But more importantly, it provides the people of Belfast & Derry a focal point to ensure that the Irish language lives on. Let's not forget, since partition - Britain did very little to protect the Irish language. There were 2 or 3 gaeltacht areas in the north that could have been saved. It's about time that Britain did something to protect it if you ask me. A little funding here and there to community centres has far more benefits than cons.

orourkeda wrote: »

Again the claim that I speak on behalf of the irish people is clearly ridiculous. I have never claimed this anywhere in this thread. This is disingenous too.

You are the one making claims that the language is dead, and that nobody watches Irish language programming.. Meanwhile - it's not uncommon for the likes of Ros na Rún to hit 100,000 viewers. Not bad for a language, that has been previously cited in this thread of only having 20,000-30,000 speakers, aye?

AlexderFranke

Have a look into the survey of Maynooth´s University "The Irish people and the Irish language" or the They state a percentage of 7,8 % of fluent and very fluent speakers. This survey shows, too, that there are great regional and social differences, not only with regard to the Gaeltacht.
The other sociolinguistic survey of 1994 is from Ó Riagáin and Ó Gliasáin where they state native speaker ability, enough to handle most or parts of conversations.
Yes, indeed, the native speakers who are around strongly legitimate the support for Irish in the official sector. But without doubt waste of money certainly is existing.
Translations of documents, for example, are only useful for that ones frequently read and used by citizens and if demanded by citizens.
By effective teaching one could probably save money and have better outcomes.

Féach isteach ag an suirbhé Ollscoil Mháigh Nuad darb ainm "An Ghaeilge agus an pobal Éireannach". Tugtar ceatadán mar atá 7,8% do chaineoirí líofa. Tá an suirbhé eile ó 1994 cumtha ag na hUasail Ó Riagáin agus Ó Gliasáin ina bhfuil na leibhéil ann mar atá "scil mar a bheadh cainteoir dúchais", "in ann an chuid is mó na hcomhráite a leanúint" agus "roinnt na gcomhráite a leanúint".
Mar sin féin, gan dabht, tá cur amú aigid ann. Ní fíu ach aistrithe a dhéanamh do dhocúméid atá léite go minic ag carthánaí agus ar iarr.
Agus is ceart an scéal é tacú na Gaeilge sa roinn oifigiúl as na Gaeilgeoirí dúchais atá ann timpeall na tíre go deo.
Is dóigh go sábhálófar airgead trí theagasc éifeachtach na teanga.

Le deá-mhéin, Alex

AlexderFranke

Have a look into the survey of Maynooth´s University "The Irish people and the Irish language" or the They state a percentage of 7,8 % of fluent and very fluent speakers. This survey shows, too, that there are great regional and social differences, not only with regard to the Gaeltacht.
The other sociolinguistic survey of 1994 is from Ó Riagáin and Ó Gliasáin where they state native speaker ability, enough to handle most or parts of conversations.
Yes, indeed, the native speakers who are around strongly legitimate the support for Irish in the official sector. But without doubt waste of money certainly is existing.
Translations of documents, for example, are only useful for that ones frequently read and used by citizens and if demanded by citizens.
By effective teaching one could probably save money and have better outcomes.

Féach isteach ag an suirbhé Ollscoil Mháigh Nuad darb ainm "An Ghaeilge agus an pobal Éireannach". Tugtar ceatadán mar atá 7,8% do chaineoirí líofa. Tá an suirbhé eile ó 1994 cumtha ag na hUasail Ó Riagáin agus Ó Gliasáin ina bhfuil na leibhéil ann mar atá "scil mar a bheadh cainteoir dúchais", "in ann an chuid is mó na hcomhráite a leanúint" agus "roinnt na gcomhráite a leanúint".
Mar sin féin, gan dabht, tá cur amú aigid ann. Ní fíu ach aistrithe a dhéanamh do dhocúméid atá léite go minic ag carthánaí agus ar iarr.
Is dóigh go sábhálófar airgead trí theagasc éifeachtach na teanga.

Le deá-mhéin, Alex

Wibbs

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I hear what you're saying. However don't all primary teachers have to be able to teach Irish? I'm sure that would require a decent level. I acknowledge what your mate was saying but then again kids love complaining about that kind of thing.

Oh sure, but when he originally wanted to be excused the headmaster(who was one of the main Irish teachers) was not open to the idea and dismissed his concerns. So he engaged the headmaster in conversational Irish, proved his point and avoided the class.

Perhaps intense 2-month gaelige courses over the summer would bring these teachers up to the required level.

It could also be phased in, say in the first year of introduction it would only apply to junior/senior infants or only to a certain amount of schools, so there'd be a transitional stage.

Maybe. It would be expensive though. You then have to translate all the schoolbooks(though in primary the existing Irish schools would have that covered). That would get pricey when you hit second level

dlofnep wrote: »

You are the one making claims that the language is dead, and that nobody watches Irish language programming.. Meanwhile - it's not uncommon for the likes of Ros na Rún to hit 100,000 viewers. Not bad for a language, that has been previously cited in this thread of only having 20,000-30,000 speakers, aye?

Aye indeed. I watch TG4 on occasion myself. Florsceal(sp) I find interesting with it's various bought in reports. That said watch how fast their viewing figures would drop if there were no subtitles. I'd challenge the station to switch off their subtitle equipment for 3 months and see what happened. I guarantee the figures would drop, if not plummet. I further guarantee they'll not do this for the foreseeable. While youre at it, take away their bought in english language programming(mostly from the US) and see what happens.

Then we come to RnaG. Claimed listenership of 150,000 per week. Well claimed by RTE in one survey. However it's a hard claim to back up, because they're not included in the official listenership surveys, so they can effectively claim what they like.

Krusader

dlofnep wrote: »

Firstly, alot of these centres are community-run centres. Not only that, they provide employment for many people in the area, with a bookshop, a restaurant and classes. But more importantly, it provides the people of Belfast & Derry a focal point to ensure that the Irish language lives on.

Exactly, even Ladbrokes has gotten in on the act of promoting Irish in the Belfast Gaeltacht and these Gaeltacht Quarters also bring tourists to the area.
Its a bit sickening when cities like Belfast and Derry are setting up Gaeltacht areas, god even a mini-Gaeltacht in Canada is in the pipeline, yet we can't have one in Dublin, our own capital. Pitiful really

Krusader

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe. It would be expensive though. You then have to translate all the schoolbooks(though in primary the existing Irish schools would have that covered). That would get pricey when you hit second level


Then we come to RnaG. Claimed listenership of 150,000 per week. Well claimed by RTE in one survey. However it's a hard claim to back up, because they're not included in the official listenership surveys, so they can effectively claim what they like.

So you know the price of everthing but the value of nothing


RnaG is a radio station primarily for the Gaeltacht, the clue is in the name. It's a localised station primarily I listen to Raidio na Life for my Irish Radio, people in Belfast probably listen to Raidio Fáilte, people in Cork may listen to Darren's programme

Wibbs

Crosáidí wrote: »

So you know the price of everthing but the value of nothing

Pretty trite response really, that doesn't add much. If something is valuable, price won't come into it. Neither will people baulk at spending on it. You're also avoiding what I was noting as a practical barrier to Bottle_of_Smoke's (good) plan.

RnaG is a radio station primarily for the Gaeltacht, the clue is in the name. It's a localised station primarily I listen to Raidio na Life for my Irish Radio, people in Belfast probably listen to Raidio Fáilte, people in Cork may listen to Darren's programme

Raidio na Life? Another not having any independent listenership figures. Where does it get it's funding? Ditto for Raidio Fáilte.

Krusader

Why would schoolbooks have to be translated, believe it or not there are kids who go to lán Ghaeilge schools in both primary and secondary level, I would say they aren't using books in English

DJP

orourkeda wrote: »

I never once suggested that I was speaking on behalf of anyone else. That is clearly incorrect. I wasnt.

I can only speak from my own experience.

You said that Irish is dead and that nobody watches TG4 and RnaG. You clearly do not recognise the people who do speak Irish and watch TG4 and listen to RnaG and so are claiming that they do not exist and that you can speak for them.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

If the silent majority is silent, then how do you know whether you are representative of them or not?

All comprehensive studies and opinion polls say that the vast majority of Irish people like the Irish language.

Mr Benevolent

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

You said that Irish is dead and that nobody watches TG4 and RnaG. You clearly do not recognise the people who do speak Irish and watch TG4 and listen to RnaG and so are claiming that they do not exist and that you can speak for them.




All comprehensive studies and opinion polls say that the vast majority of Irish people like the Irish language.

No, the vast majority of people say they like the Irish language. That means nothing and can be easily ascribed to a surfeit of patriotism. What they think about it privately is another matter entirely. Surveys like those are automatically biased.

Besides, Irish was taught extremely badly in schools, it was usually the most boring class by far and the useless content meant no-one was inclined to use it. You can't teach Irish in a classroom setting, it must be spoken in reality everywhere, like Welsh. Since it's neither useful not practical to speak Irish because very few will understand the speaker, it's effectively dead as a language. Personally I will insist on my children being taught an additional globally useful language instead of Irish.

DJP

Confab wrote: »

No, the vast majority of people say they like the Irish language. That means nothing and can be easily ascribed to a surfeit of patriotism. What they think about it privately is another matter entirely. Surveys like those are automatically biased.

You are the first person I have ever heard make this argument.

Confab wrote: »

Besides, Irish was taught extremely badly in schools, it was usually the most boring class by far and the useless content meant no-one was inclined to use it.

You are being very subjective. I know a lot of students who liked Irish class in school. I preferred it to Economics and the Science subjects.

Confab wrote: »

You can't teach Irish in a classroom setting, it must be spoken in reality everywhere, like Welsh.

Welsh isn't that much stronger in Wales than Irish is in Ireland you know.

Confab wrote: »

Since it's neither useful not practical to speak Irish because very few will understand the speaker, it's effectively dead as a language.

So long as thousands of people speak it every day it is not dead.

Confab wrote: »

Personally I will insist on my children being taught an additional globally useful language instead of Irish.

Sorry to say, you won't have a choice. Your kids will have to learn Irish up until the Junior Cert and this will ALWAYS be the case. The next FG/LB Govt should make the subject optional for the Leaving Cert though.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh sure, but when he originally wanted to be excused the headmaster(who was one of the main Irish teachers) was not open to the idea and dismissed his concerns. So he engaged the headmaster in conversational Irish, proved his point and avoided the class.


Maybe. It would be expensive though. You then have to translate all the schoolbooks(though in primary the existing Irish schools would have that covered). That would get pricey when you hit second level

I think it would jsut be a case of publishers printing more of their Gaelige versions. The parents would just be buying Irish textbooks instead of English ones really.

As for second level. I wouldn't suggest they should have to teach in Irish. Whilst there would undoubtedly be an increased demand for Irish speaking second level school it would really be up to schools to change. Furthermore I don't know if Irish text books would be neccesary for many subjects. Take say Sciences or Maths- The class might be conducted in Irish but the textbook coudl still be in English as in that kind of subject textbooks are mostly used by pupils at home to back up learning in class. All kids are still gonna speak English so wouldn't be as big an issue

[/QUOTE]

dlofnep

Wibbs wrote: »

That said watch how fast their viewing figures would drop if there were no subtitles. I'd challenge the station to switch off their subtitle equipment for 3 months and see what happened. I guarantee the figures would drop, if not plummet. I further guarantee they'll not do this for the foreseeable. While youre at it, take away their bought in english language programming(mostly from the US) and see what happens.

I don't think their viewers would plummet. I find the subtitles annoying at times, because you spend too much time reading instead of listening. Is there a way of turning them off? If I was to have subtitles, I'd prefer Irish ones - to help understanding some of the more difficult regional dialects, like the Ulster one. The amount of nodding and smiling I do when in the presense of an Irish speaker from Ulster is hilariously bad. Not that I'm a bad speaker or anything..

Wibbs

Confab wrote: »

No, the vast majority of people say they like the Irish language. That means nothing and can be easily ascribed to a surfeit of patriotism. What they think about it privately is another matter entirely. Surveys like those are automatically biased.

Precisely. Then there are the stats claiming 100,000 viewers/listeners for this or that programme, yet who is claiming the figures? Oh yes that's right, the stations relying on numbers to keep their funding up. If they truly wanted to put their cupla focal where there mouths are, they would sign up to the ratings system like anyone else. I wonder why they don't? Hmmm indeed. Even 20,000 people with a vested interest can be one helluva lobby group and they have been since the foundation of the state. A group that has gotten funding and airtime way above their value and added to the very narrow, often doggedly rural/anti Dublin, late victorian notions of Irishness.

DJP

Wibbs wrote: »

Precisely. Then there are the stats claiming 100,000 viewers/listeners for this or that programme, yet who is claiming the figures? Oh yes that's right, the stations relying on numbers to keep their funding up. If they truly wanted to put their cupla focal where there mouths are, they would sign up to the ratings system like anyone else. I wonder why they don't? Hmmm indeed.

They do, of course. Hmmm indeed... :roll:

Wibbs

dlofnep wrote: »

I don't think their viewers would plummet. I find the subtitles annoying at times, because you spend too much time reading instead of listening. Is there a way of turning them off? If I was to have subtitles, I'd prefer Irish ones - to help understanding some of the more difficult regional dialects, like the Ulster one. The amount of nodding and smiling I do when in the presense of an Irish speaker from Ulster is hilariously bad. Not that I'm a bad speaker or anything..

I see your point, but you're looking at it from the subjective. You are learning Irish and have an active interest in the language and fair play. My point was that turn off the english subtitles and you will then see very clearly how many have a similar interest. Then again since they dont have any independent viewing figures, they could(and I suspect do) pull a figure out of their thoin and wouldnt be challenged on it.

DJP

Wibbs wrote: »

Then again since they dont have any independent viewing figures, they could(and I suspect do) pull a figure out of their thoin and wouldnt be challenged on it.

If they don't have independent viewing figures how do you account for these figures? They cannot just pick numbers out of the sky. I think you are wrong. I recall that TG4 is always included when the numbers viewing television stations in Ireland come out. How did you manage to believe otherwise?

Wibbs

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

They do, of course. Hmmm indeed... :roll:

Apologies, I was confusing TnaG They're not members or subscribers to the JNLR listenership surveys, so their figures are meaningless.

TG4? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TG4#Ratings 2-3% of the TV pie. And like the article says not exactly a great breakdown of those figures by the station itself.

Wibbs

It would be interesting to break down the figures by locale and more, access to other stations in those locales. I seriously doubt in Dublin for example that they would be within an asses roar of Beeb 2.

My point about the Irish language radio still stands. They're picking figures outa the air.