Boiling up 'Again' in Aer Lingus

Mc Love

chrisxii wrote: »

goldenegg nobodys saying that , of course they should have food and accomadation but 5 STAR hotels and 200-300 DOLLARS all the perks of the day and now crying about cuts, please..........

Its far from 200-300 dollars a day they get in the states!

ScouseMouse

This thread is now just plain scary.

As an SLF, I am looking at booking the summer holiday and this talk is quite un-nerving.

I have been to the same place every year for the last four years. Three trips with EI and one with FR. I will always pay the little extra for EI but after reading this, its making me wonder is there a risk of trouble in July.

Whatever is going to happen needs to be sorted sooner rather than later as I for one, and probably countless others, could be booking elsewhere rather than with EI.

Just get on with in and get it sorted !

castie

Goldenegg wrote: »

The ignorance displayed by some people on the thread is amazing! People should learn the correct facts instead of talking bull!

Obviously if your away abroad for work,your company has to provide accommodation and food! What do you want crew to do? Fly straight to the states, turn around and fly straight back home all in one trip!

Yeah, good one!

Im away working on customer sites all over the globe quite often.
Yes I get decent accomadation but not 5 star hotels.
I get expenses but not enough per day to be eating in really expensive restaurants.

Dacian

In reply to evergreen/bessaion;
The March 2010 deal specified the changes/cuts required. After the deal was voted though the company then asked for more roster changes. The problem lies with the particular changes they demanded not the stated productivity target. The company were enforcing changes before the LRC issued their binding arbitration. (July and Sept respectively)

Removing the option to request things on your roster doesn't increase overall productivity but it does affect individual job satisfaction in an area where the staff must give the impression of good humour.
In addition EI crew were allowed to 'bid' or certain groups which partially influenced their shift pattern (ie. mostly lates, mostly earlies, mostly longhaul, mostly shorthhaul) EI have now removed this option. How does this increase productivity?


For evergreen- IMPACT never walked away from discussions. In fact they asked their members to work the contentious rosters in July-Sep to prevent conflict while they waited for the LRC to publish the arbitration. During this time EI were imposing new changes every 2 weeks on crew. Which party is inflaming the situation there?

The point is that the Greenfield target is close to being reached using the changes since March 2010. But instead of adding a small number of changes to close the gap EI last week told crew that they have unilaterally abolished about 70% of their current rules as well as removing any capacity for crew to infuence their shift pattern and/or time off.
(Got a wedding/party/surgery you need off, well you will have to hope you are lucky enough to get it off otherwise you will be trying to switch shifts with other crew)

I will finish with a small statistic: SouthWest are probaly the most succesful airline in the world. Their mgmt regularly consult their staff. In fact they did so before choosing to order the B737-800 recently. Between 2002 and 2009 staff costs in SW rose by 21%. Here is a company who offer incentives to their staff. I'm not advocating salary increase but I am looking at a progressive mgmt attitude.

Hannibal

castie wrote: »

Im away working on customer sites all over the globe quite often.
Yes I get decent accomadation but not 5 star hotels.
I get expenses but not enough per day to be eating in really expensive restaurants.

I actually stayed in both the hotels they use in London and New York and I can assure you theyre not 5 star. Both I believe are between 3 and 4 star according to expedia. The one in Manhattan is very reasonably priced, so I dont see what the witch hunt is about. They get an allowance while away but out of that allowance theyve to buy their own meals, its not like a FAS style credit card thing in place.

Goldenegg

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so your telling me they get nothing for over night stays?

No that's not what I'm saying. If you re read my post I said that obviously crew have to be provided with accommodation and food.

Aerlingus cannot physically provide food when abroad, this allowance is given to the individual to provide themselves with it.

Another poster refers to them staying in 5 star hotels- completely not true, and the certantly not given $300 a day to live in! That's ludicrous to think that!

Mc Love

Its all starting today:
http://www.newstalk.ie/2011/news/fears-of-industrial-action-at-aer-lingus/

chrisxii

sorry i am refering to 7 maybe 8 years ago when i was in LA and what i witnessed first hand that leads me to believe why aerlingus are in trouble as a company now today.
5 star hotel. fact....2-300 dollars spending money. fact......numerous perks.......
but dont take my word for it ....the biggest fact is muellers in cut backs left right and center. no one is saying cc shouldnt have accomadation no one is saying they shouldnt have food while they are away. but thinking about it wouldnt they have to eat if they were back home anyway.sorry just a thought. some one tell me why is mueller in if what i say is nonsense. all information is looked upon in an unbiased manner.

Bessarion

chrisxii wrote: »

..........what i witnessed first hand that leads me to believe why aerlingus are in trouble as a company now today........the biggest fact is muellers in cut backs left right and center........

The cabin crew along with every other frontline staff section in EI have taken lots of cuts over the last 5-6 years. The cabin crew are not saying they will not accept cuts. They are not looking for special treatment. They are on the same page as Herr Mueller. In fact he is seen as the future of EI by many staff.

-They want the deal they made with EI to be honoured.
-They want the cuts/changes that were mutually agreed upon.
-They want to achieve the productivity target mutually agreed with the company.
-They will accept any further changes required if directed to do so by the LRC review.
-They insist that the changes being forced on them are not contained within either the Greenfield deal OR the LRC Arbitration.
This is the entire root of the current dispute.

Hence you have the union/crew calling for outside mediation while the company insists there is no need. If the company were 100% confident in their position surely they would agree to mediation to vindicate their position. What is needed is someone to go through the LRC arbitration document line by line and force both sides to comply.

Bessarion

Just looking at the irish Times article about this stand-off:

"Aer Lingus spokesman Declan Kearney said they had spoken to staff and conducted group meetings last week and the situation remained the same.
“Staff are expected to operate the rosters in full. A refusal means they will be sent home without pay,” he said.
Mr Kearney said the industrial action meant cabin crew were not operating the 850 hours agreed under the Greenfield programme, which has sought to contain costs at the airline. Instead, cabin crew hours were closer to an average of 800 hours a year."

-EI have held no group meetings with staff recently. The only communications to staff were letters in the post and the same letters published on their internal website.
-EI themselves gave the union info before Xmas that showed crew were achieving approx 820 hours. (So this entirely new set of rules is purely to deliver 2.5 hours per crew per month?) (30 hours/12 months/1000 crew)

Lapin

Unions 1 - Passengers 0

www.rte.ie/news/2011/0117/aerlingus.html

Stevek101

I hope Aer Lingus staff realised they will bring about the shift demise of the airline if they keep this up.

Nose to the grindstone

The main thing Aer Lingus cabin crew are striving for is some sort of work life balance. Apart from the contentious planned rosters, the company have the ability to change duties by up to 5 hours with just a few days notice. So instead of a cabin crew member finishing work at the original planned time of 5.30pm for example, maybe before days off, the flight duty can be changed to 10.30. With rosters issued 4 to 6 weeks in advance CC have to make plans according to these planned rosters to fit in with family, friends and partners. Though it might be something simple to go the cinema for a person in a nine to five job, if CC arrange a trip to the cinema for the day of a 5 hour duty change such as above it is then out of the question. While this is obviously not a matter of life or death and i have simplified the matter...why should they have to put up with constant disruptions such as this on a regular basis. This is on top of delays which are part and parcel of the job and expected.
There is a human element to all this that people seem to forget about. Ryanair work planned rosters of 5 days on 2 off then 5 or 6 on and 3 off..they can work out months in advance the way their rosters will go. EI CC used to be able to request one weekend off in 8 wks, their preference for early or late shifts, or whether they want to work shorthaul or longhaul predominantly. The ability to do this has now been taken away making a routine impossible. They are expected to live to work and not work to live. No one deserves that.

the ostrich

AL has to rid the airline of these greedy, self centered staff members, otherwise they will not compete in the difficult market that exists today.

Sack them all as soon as possible and rehire flexible staff who will be only too willing to take the vacant positions.

garhjw

disgraceful behaviour yet again by unionied muppets. they should be ashamed of themselves ruining peoples holidays and travel plans.

they should be happy to have a job but as usual all they are just out for themselves. AL staff who strike and support this nonsense are idiots and i hope they are fired.

Nose to the grindstone

the ostrich wrote: »

AL has to rid the airline of these greedy, self centered staff members, otherwise they will not compete in the difficult market that exists today.

Sack them all as soon as possible and rehire flexible staff who will be only too willing to take the vacant positions.

It is illegal to mass sack a group of workers. That is Unfair Dismissal and is a case for lawsuit...As you can imagine 1000 valid claims against any company would cost a lot of money. And it would not be great for the economy to see 1000 more jobs lost and possibly given to "flexible" workers. Who is to guarantee they would be Irish jobs and that the wages paid would go back into the Irish economy?

Goldenegg

garhjw wrote: »

disgraceful behaviour yet again by unionied muppets. they should be ashamed of themselves ruining peoples holidays and travel plans.

they should be happy to have a job but as usual all they are just out for themselves. AL staff who strike and support this nonsense are idiots and i hope they are fired.

There is one thing having a job and to be grateful to have it..it's another thing to have a job and have employers taking advantage of the recession and treating employees like dirt.

People have to have a work / life balance...

Stevek101

They'll have lots of free time if they refuse to do the new rosters.

evergreen101

Boston flight cancelled today due to Union directives - what will those 200+ pax do next time they want ot go to the states?

The LRC have not overruled EI
The union have a legal right to take industrial action
If the arbitration is intact are the crew refusing to work to their contract ?
if so.........

Heard today that one of the directive from the union is to take 30mins free of all duties at outstations - this must be impacting on the schedule and is ludicrous, FR just get in and out asap (wouldn't you get home faster) can we sort it out girls and boys ?

the ostrich

Nose to the grindstone wrote: »

It is illegal to mass sack a group of workers. That is Unfair Dismissal and is a case for lawsuit...As you can imagine 1000 valid claims against any company would cost a lot of money. And it would not be great for the economy to see 1000 more jobs lost and possibly given to "flexible" workers. Who is to guarantee they would be Irish jobs and that the wages paid would go back into the Irish economy?

All of the cabin crew who have taken action today are Irish, and have had it their own way for a long time.

AL is not a charity, but a business which has to perform, and keep shareholders happy, unions have to back down or bail out.

Lapin

Nose to the grindstone wrote: »

The main thing Aer Lingus cabin crew are striving for is some sort of work life balance. Apart from the contentious planned rosters, the company have the ability to change duties by up to 5 hours with just a few days notice. So instead of a cabin crew member finishing work at the original planned time of 5.30pm for example, maybe before days off, the flight duty can be changed to 10.30. With rosters issued 4 to 6 weeks in advance CC have to make plans according to these planned rosters to fit in with family, friends and partners. Though it might be something simple to go the cinema for a person in a nine to five job, if CC arrange a trip to the cinema for the day of a 5 hour duty change such as above it is then out of the question. While this is obviously not a matter of life or death and i have simplified the matter...why should they have to put up with constant disruptions such as this on a regular basis. This is on top of delays which are part and parcel of the job and expected.
There is a human element to all this that people seem to forget about. Ryanair work planned rosters of 5 days on 2 off then 5 or 6 on and 3 off..they can work out months in advance the way their rosters will go. EI CC used to be able to request one weekend off in 8 wks, their preference for early or late shifts, or whether they want to work shorthaul or longhaul predominantly. The ability to do this has now been taken away making a routine impossible. They are expected to live to work and not work to live. No one deserves that.

So passengers paying good money to use the services advertised by Aer Lingus (many of them being business passengers trying to keep employment in Ireland) are denied the "Human Element" of customer service and a reliable standards because a few cabin crew who don't know how well off they are choose to throw a strop.

In case you haven't noticed - most of us lucky enough to have a job are living to work at the moment. Not because we deserve to, but because we have to.

If you are not happy in the job you decided to take up, then move on and get something else more suitable to your needs and wants.
Aer Lingus will will be better off without you and they won't be waiting long for someone to take your place.

The passengers from the canceled flights will no doubt see things from your point of view.

Because You deserve it.

Nose to the grindstone

evergreen101 wrote: »

Boston flight cancelled today due to Union directives - what will those 200+ pax do next time they want ot go to the states?


Heard today that one of the directive from the union is to take 30mins free of all duties at outstations - this must be impacting on the schedule and is ludicrous, FR just get in and out asap (wouldn't you get home faster) can we sort it out girls and boys ?

Would you work an 11 hour day without a break? This 30 mins is taken while the aircraft is being cleaned and refueled by the way so passengers cannot board during this time anyway. On long flights this is not an issue as there is plenty time during a flight to actually get a bite to eat...the issue with mealbreaks is a problem on doubles when flights are too busy to have time to eat anything. Nobody can get up at 3am and work til after 4pm without eating...it is a basic need of the human body. No one wants to have flights cancelled or delayed...cabin crew are also delayed and yes they feel for any passenger who is affected.

Stevek101

I'm sorry but they are plently of people that would do the job with no complains. The Aer Lingus staff have to realise that.

The climate has changed and these rosters are no different than what most other airlines practice. Gone are the days of sleep overs and five star hotels, it just doesn't work like that. Maybe the odd charter airline might do that for them with a few weeks work a year. Sounds exactly like what they want.

If they don't like it they can drag their heals but at best Ryanair will be the owner or more likely there will be no Aer Lingus.

Dacian

Stevek101 wrote: »

I'm sorry but they are plently of people that would do the job with no complains. The Aer Lingus staff have to realise that.

The climate has changed and these rosters are no different than what most other airlines practice. Gone are the days of sleep overs and five star hotels, it just doesn't work like that.....

Most other airlines allow staff to make requests to give some semblance of work/life balance. Major carriers even allow crew to bid for specific flights if they senior enough.

In fact FR crew work a pattern so they can plan their time off months in advance. EI crew have no pattern and have now been told you will no longer be able to make any requests as this was inhibiting productivity.

Does this sound reasonable and in line with normal aviation business standards to you?


That the dispute has gone this far is deplorable but why didn't the company alter parts of the Greenfield deal, why are enforcing a completely new set of changes?
The Examiner is saying the the Boston flight was cancelled due to the lack of the correct grade (as specified by the Greenfield plan) being rostered on it even thought there were a number of this grade available in Dublin.

Stevek101

Jet2 and Monarch aircraft arriving in Dublin to pick up the pieces that could be left by Aer Lingus crew. A small victory for the customer.

996tt

2 US flights cancelled today. 5 pissed off US people in our office who were supposed to be on the chicago flight, im pretty sure that the next time they come here it wont be on an aer lingus flight.

Id say the pilots are raging. Their pension fund borrowed huge money to buy aer lingus shares a few years ago to fend of Ryanairs bid, cant see this doing the share price any favours(even though its actually up today), all its doing is long term damage, the company is worth more being broken up.

Bearcat

it's a planned union bust no matter what way u look at it. AL just want hosties now as transient journey folk that walk in/out the door in a 3 year span......as a career forget it.

Bearcat

996tt wrote: »

Id say the pilots are raging. Their pension fund borrowed huge money to buy aer lingus shares a few years ago to fend of Ryanairs bid, cant see this doing the share price any favours.

nothing to do with pilots.......your post is a troll

996tt

Bearcat wrote: »

nothing to do with pilots.......your post is a troll

How so? Its not only the passengers that are losing out big time here, plenty of AL staff have shares in the company,
http://www.independent.ie/business/pilots-pension-fund-loses-15m-as-shares-stall-135707.html
Pilots bought in at EUR3.60, share price is now just over EUR1, do the maths Einstein. Do you honestly think that this strike is not going to affect AL hugely?

And to top it of, I get an email from AL about a sale, who in their right mind would book a flight with them with the crap that is going on

xflyer

Actually my impression of all this is that management are deliberately upping the ante here to break the union. The CC were the last hold outs to agree the deal and even then it took a threat to fire everyone and rehire on lesser terms before they came around.

Frankly it would suit AL management if that came to pass as a result of this dispute. It may even be the intention. The time to do it is now during the quiet winter season.

Time will tell.

Bearcat

996tt wrote: »

How so? Its not only the passengers that are losing out big time here, plenty of AL staff have shares in the company,
http://www.independent.ie/business/pilots-pension-fund-loses-15m-as-shares-stall-135707.html
Pilots bought in at EUR3.60, share price is now just over EUR1, do the maths Einstein. Do you honestly think that this strike is not going to affect AL hugely?

And to top it of, I get an email from AL about a sale, who in their right mind would book a flight with them with the crap that is going on

markets are prepared to weather this one out for long term gain.......re the einstein theory, once this dispute is put to bed with a success on the AL's side, share price should see postive gains imo.
Agree a disaster now for passengers but better now to have this spat as against mid summer.

Dogwatch

the ostrich wrote: »

AL has to rid the airline of these greedy, self centered staff members, otherwise they will not compete in the difficult market that exists today.

Sack them all as soon as possible and rehire flexible staff who will be only too willing to take the vacant positions.

garhjw wrote: »

disgraceful behaviour yet again by unionied muppets. they should be ashamed of themselves ruining peoples holidays and travel plans.

they should be happy to have a job but as usual all they are just out for themselves. AL staff who strike and support this nonsense are idiots and i hope they are fired.

I hope the two of you are never faced with a situation such as that faced by EI CC.

Your comments show lack of understanding and compassion for people who work in other industries.

Instead of venting your vitriol here maybe you should communicate with EI management to ask why their employees feel it necessary to lose money when things here are not very good.

EI management are keeping a low profile in this dispute which, in my experience, is that they are pushing to see how far their employees are prepared to gol. No EI manager is being inconvienced by this dispute nor are they losing money.

I have no connection with EI other than as a pax.

evergreen101

I've no problem with crew taking breaks or eating but to go on strike so the get 30 mins woven into the schedule (1 hrs to make sure it's completely free ) is madness, breaks are taken in flight by all other operators and on the eI longhaul.

Management seem to be laying into the crew now though, bit strong I reckon and it may backfire longterm, if they are worried about the longterm of course as pointed out by others !

Fact is this dispute isn't even about paying the mortagage or keeping jobs, it seems to be ego and legacy driven - it's madness - there will be tears!

Again - what do the Union want?

FreudianSlippers

I need to fly tomorrow or thursday due to a family illness and it's rather urgent.

I really wish that I knew exactly what flights were going to be cancelled and what they can do to get passengers where they need to go.
I was planning on going EI to ORD but now I might have to take BMI to LHR.

Do Continental flights out of DUB use EI as their operator now that they're merging with UA?

FlutterinBantam

Bearcat wrote: »

it's a planned union bust no matter what way u look at it. AL just want hosties now as transient journey folk that walk in/out the door in a 3 year span......as a career forget it.

You may have hit the nail on the head there.

OK, let's look at the history of airlines in this neck of the woods.

In the past.

Great career and conditions, and the flying public were prepared to pay to ensure that a great deal of fat was built into everything to ensure that nobody was too much discommoded by a 24/7/365 operation.

No problem taking the sickie if the kids were out of sorts and 'drop anchor' for your breaks safe in the knowledge that there will be no repercussions.


Then everything changed,suddenly low cost became the norm, the cartels were bust, the airline business became a far more low grade, low qualifications, bottom line business and standard of staff dropped to the floor.

Essentially, no more than a 'fast food operation' which very few see as a lifestyle career.

The question has to be asked' Can a career as cabin staff in a modern low cost airline be compatible with a normal lifestyle which incorporates the family values most of us take for granted? '

Currently I would say a resounding no.


This is where the conflict arises in Aer Lingus, as the staff try to hold onto the conditions of the past,while at the same time the company tries to shave costs from it's bottom line and compete with it's rivals.

I can see cabin jobs in EI and FR being 3 year or 4 year max,for people with little of no commitments, much like call centres where the employees are burned out and bolloxed and ready for replacement after 3 or 4 years.


That's the way I see it rolling folks.

Ruu_Old

The airline has announced that the following flights will be cancelled tomorrow:

EI 650 and EI 651 to and from Frankfurt
EI582 and EI 583 to and from Malaga
EI 594 and EI595 to and from Madrid
EI 606 and EI 607 to and from Amsterdam
EI 176 and EI 177 to and from London Heathrow

Meant to be headed on the 124 tomorrow night myself.

Locker10a

chrisxii wrote: »

if a drunk is boarding a plane they should be refused.
if a drunk enters a diner where a waitress is working and gets agressive or a gang of lads high on something, even an evacuation of the building, has to be dealt with, just because they are FLYING HIGH they are suddenly royalty...... please you are obviously well educated, these people cc have had it good for two long its time to get the shoulder to the wheel and start pushing

Had to laugh when in sae your commont! The lack of knowledge you have on the whole topic is actualy funny!! I cant belive you think Cabin crew are simple waitresses ! Please google the role or cabin crew or do some info on plane crashes where crew were of the umost importance to passenger(yes thats you;)) survival! And so what if crew get nice hitels and allowances! What do ou expect them to do ? Even Ryanair crew get this(Shock:eek:) when they have to overnight! All airlines do it! ANd please dont make afool of yourself and find out info on things before you start ranting about things you know nothing about!

Locker10a

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

You may have hit the nail on the head there.





I can see cabin jobs in EI and FR being 3 year or 4 year max,for people with little of no commitments, much like call centres where the employees are burned out and bolloxed and ready for replacement after 3 or 4 years.


That's the way I see it rolling folks.

Sadly i must agree with you this is how i see airline jobs in the near future! just look at the New BA mixed fleet contract! And they have actualy said the only want collage graduates who spend about 2 yease flying befor moving on to their "real" job! I tink EI are looking for the same here!

Jumpy

Nose to the grindstone wrote: »

It is illegal to mass sack a group of workers. That is Unfair Dismissal and is a case for lawsuit...As you can imagine 1000 valid claims against any company would cost a lot of money. And it would not be great for the economy to see 1000 more jobs lost and possibly given to "flexible" workers. Who is to guarantee they would be Irish jobs and that the wages paid would go back into the Irish economy?

Not if they continuously strike it isnt.

Im sure we will be seeing this very soon.

Its either that or Aer Lingus fails.

Locker10a

Lapin wrote: »

So passengers paying good money to use the services advertised by Aer Lingus (many of them being business passengers trying to keep employment in Ireland) are denied the "Human Element" of customer service and a reliable standards because a few cabin crew who don't know how well off they are choose to throw a strop.

In case you haven't noticed - most of us lucky enough to have a job are living to work at the moment. Not because we deserve to, but because we have to.

If you are not happy in the job you decided to take up, then move on and get something else more suitable to your needs and wants.
Aer Lingus will will be better off without you and they won't be waiting long for someone to take your place.

The passengers from the canceled flights will no doubt see things from your point of view.

Because You deserve it.

Heres some info from the Examiner today:
"However, the union said the cancellations were avoidable, despite the ongoing work-to-rule by cabin crew staff. It said the Boston flights did not have a cabin manager on board and the work to rule its members are observing requires cabin crew do not participate in any voluntary "acting up" arrangements. "However, it is understood by IMPACT that other cabin managers were available to work on the flight. Aer Lingus management did not roster other available cabin managers, insisting instead that one of the cabin crew take over the position," it said. "

[Edited 2011-01-18 05:03:09]

The Irish Times has this statement:
“Management is demanding that they sign an undertaking to do anything management instruct them to do in the future. The staff are refusing to sign.
"The management are then telling them that they are being taken off duties/payroll. Therefore, a total of at least 44 cabin crew are expected to be off payroll today.”
Aer Lingus last week warned that staff who refused to co-operate with new controversial new rosters would be sent home and removed from the pay roll.
Impact said today that eight cabin crew workers based in Dublin and a further four based in Cork were told by airline management yesterday they were being taken off duties because they took meal breaks after working for eight hours.
The Dublin based crew had worked on a series of flights between the capital and Hamburg while the Cork based crew had worked on a number of flights to and from London. None of the flights involved experienced delays or disruption.
If Aer Lingus really wanted that flight to go it could have!! Thay are turning everyone agains the union and trying to break it! Simple!

BuffyBot

Do Continental flights out of DUB use EI as their operator now that they're merging with UA?

No, they don't. CO and UA operate as two seperate entities right now. UA codeshare with EI, but Continental still operate their own flights, just as it was pre-merger.

Mc Love

EI are just trying to scare monger crew, as had has been said, they actually had crew to send certain cancelled flights out and chose not to, thinking they would score a victory over the union and cc, but guess what? It aint working, CC are willing to stand together and united in their stand for what the want and what they deserve to get.
EI are also trying to turn the public against them, the public need to research this instead of listening to the vitriol being spouted from the EI press office and then they will see it from the side of the cabin crew

Viva la union!

FlutterinBantam

Locker10a wrote: »

Sadly i must agree with you this is how i see airline jobs in the near future! just look at the New BA mixed fleet contract! And they have actualy said the only want collage graduates who spend about 2 yease flying befor moving on to their "real" job! I tink EI are looking for the same here!

Yes indeed, airline frontline jobs have been steadily heading South over the years.

Personally I feel, while not knowing the full ins and outs of the EI situation,that a cabin crew job is rapidly becoming non-compatible with a family life and all the responsibilities and pressures in today's world.

What you will see, and indeed see already, is a rapid turnover workforce of workers without family commitments, who see the job as a max 3 to four year experience, before moving on to other jobs or more regular jobs within the industry.

There are good people in Aer lingus, but a new era has definitely dawned and this dispute,which is seriously damaging to airline, is direct manifestation of the transit towards that era which unfortunately EI has to do to hold it's place as a leading European airline.

Not sure if I like it.

murphym7

I am flying to Vegas via Heathrow in 4 weeks time and am wondering should I book a Ryanair flight to London just in case. I actually had to do this the last time toys were being thrown out of the pram in EI, did not have to use the flight as it turned out.

I have booked the flight to Vegas on one ticket though (eBookers) if that would make any difference. I would not mind missing one day or so, as long as I knew that BA will still honour my flight to Vegas if EI deliver me late to Heathrow, although it is a BA/EI code share from Cork.

FlutterinBantam

Mc Love wrote: »

EI are just trying to scare monger crew, as had has been said, they actually had crew to send certain cancelled flights out and chose not to, thinking they would score a victory over the union and cc, but guess what? It aint working, CC are willing to stand together and united in their stand for what the want and what they deserve to get.
EI are also trying to turn the public against them, the public need to research this instead of listening to the vitriol being spouted from the EI press office and then they will see it from the side of the cabin crew

Viva la union!

McLove, The cabin crew and the rest of the workers will be standing in the ashes a once fine airline with that attitude.

From the sound of it you are directly involved,and I wish you well, but any 'victory' here will be Pyrrhic in the extreme and will only delay the inevitable for another day.

The traveling public are sick to the teeth with this constant uncertainty from EI.

They don't give a flying **** who is at fault, those days are gone.

They will vote with their feet and use other carriers and all the unions in the world are no use then.

That's not bashing anyone, just plain reality.

Frank Spencer

I'm due to fly to Chicago on EI 125 tomorrow, a flight that was cancelled yesterday. Today it seems that they have cancelled short-haul flights that would make it easier to accomodate passengers on other flights rather than cancelling once a day transatlantic flights.

Can anyone in the know tell me if this is going to be the way they will operate until this is resolved or can anyone even take an educated guess?

Mc Love

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

McLove, The cabin crew and the rest of the workers will be standing in the ashes a once fine airline with that attitude.

From the sound of it you are directly involved,and I wish you well, but any 'victory' here will be Pyrrhic in the extreme and will only delay the inevitable for another day.

The traveling public are sick to the teeth with this constant uncertainty from EI.

They don't give a flying **** who is at fault, those days are gone.

They will vote with their feet and use other carriers and all the unions in the world are no use then.

That's not bashing anyone, just plain reality.

Not directly involved but in the know about whats been going on, and its shocking how EI management are behaving as many are, but I dont like how they are pinning the blame on CC when they accepted the plan and EI went and changed it how they see fit. I dont think its fair on the crew in terms of working conditions, and i will backing the CC 100%

dynamick

Any time there is even the threat of industrial action from EI, my company switches all employee flights to Ryanair. When it's over we switch back - so long as the prices are OK. The subcontracted Aer Arann flights are very popular. Allowing staff on EI is considered a perk because it usually costs more (not always and not that much more).

What confuses me is that the airline is substantially owned by the staff and faces the constant threat of closure or merger with a larger airline, so why would they strike against themselves?

Sofa King Great

The aer lingus staff are shooting themselves in the foot with this. I'm due to fly tomorrow and the uncertainty about whether I'll get out is not worth it. I've always tried to fly aer lingus ahead of ryanair in the past even if it was a bit more expensive but I can't see myself flying with them anymore after this!

amacachi

Is there much disruption expected other than the cancelled flights today?