The Bible

Eliot Rosewater

The other night I read the first few pages of Genesis (from my excellent Oxford World Classics Bible) and I quite enjoyed it. The writers of the introduction to said edition claim that the Bible is "the basic book of our civilisation", and despite the best efforts of New Atheists (;)) that sentiment contains a grain of truth, I think. A lot of our culture is derived from the Bible. The title of The Grapes of Wrath stems from Revelation 14:19-20; East of Eden from Genesis 4:16, I believe.

Does anyone recommend any particular books or passages from the Bible to read?

Revolution9

Anyone discussing the ending of the Bible please use Spoiler tags, don't ruin it for the rest of us!

Denerick

The 23rd Psalm. Also, read Revelations for a laugh.

Eliot Rosewater

Denerick wrote: »

The 23rd Psalm.

It's nice. Life would probably be easier if you could buy into it. Damn rationality!

Leviticus for the rules and regulations but Revelations is where it's at.

Manach

The story of Cain and Abel for relevance to current UK politics.

smcgiff

Genesis 5:1 to 5:32 is a real page turner. Keep's you guessing right up to the end as to who begat Noah. Thought it was the Butler that did, but I was sooo wrong.

It was Lamech

metrovelvet

Song of Solomon is rather nice.

Owen

The time God killed a guy for picking up sticks was hilarious.

Denerick

The time God killed all the Egyptian first born was a laugh too. Go God! Genocide is cool.

sponsoredwalk

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

The writers of the introduction to said edition claim that the Bible is "the basic book of our civilisation", and despite the best efforts of New Atheists (;)) that sentiment contains a grain of truth, I think. A lot of our culture is derived from the Bible.

Strangely enough (?) you'll find that every one of the new atheists mention
the impact that the bible has had on our culture, that you can't understand
a lot about our culture without coming across this crazy piece of fantasy.
You'll probably get a lot more enjoyment out of Shakespeare in particular
after reading the whole thing.

I think it's amazing that a book whose very first line is completely wrong
has had such a huge impact on generations of people. Ah but it's not a
scientific work and what about metaphor and.... (continue like so...)...

Eliot Rosewater

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Strangely enough (?) you'll find that every one of the new atheists mention...

I wouldn't say "every one" of them, but obviously most New Atheists, after some thought, would admit its importance.

I was referring to the college kind of Atheist, who brings self-righteousness and smugness to new breathtaking levels, and who thinks that "religion can do no right", and that religious people people are brain dead morans, and so on.

Some day they will look upon their deeds and turn into pillars of salt.

sponsoredwalk

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Some day they will look upon their deeds and turn into pillars of salt.

You see I would like to agree with you but seeing as I know the story
behind this pillars of salt reference I'd gladly side with an arrogant atheist
who knows little about this rather than someone who'll argue in support of
this story as having anything to do with the concept of morality or
goodness.

It's the lesser of two horrendous evils

Eliot Rosewater

The pillar of salt reference was to re-emphasise my belief that these New Student Atheists aren't doing something I think nice or good. As someone interested in literature I like meaning and symbolism and all that jazz, and I was merely applying some literary nicety to the discussion to make it more interesting. I don't believe in God.

sponsoredwalk

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

The pillar of salt reference was to re-emphasise my belief that these New Student Atheists aren't doing something I think nice or good. As someone interested in literature I like meaning and symbolism and all that jazz, and I was merely applying some literary nicety to the discussion to make it more interesting. I don't believe in God.

Yeah me too, I'd just argue the meaning of that particular situation, which
you just happened to mention ,and is a good example btw, makes you
wonder how such craziness could influence society so much seeing as it's
so unbelievably ridiculous/heartless/mean etc... Just makes you think.
The influence of that particular parable can hardly be argued to have been
positive so I'd trust a student writing off such craziness more than
someone justifying such horrible "morality".
As an aside, I haven't actually met anyone critical of religion that doesn't
have a detailed reason for feeling that way and references to parts of the
text, I wouldn't be so critical of students who have religious criticisms
because in all likelihood they have reasons, in my experience they have
had specific ones anyway but I'm sure there are always going to be
people who'll just hop on the bandwagon and write off something that
has potential value.

Dades

I find the Bible a fantastic source of inspiration.
(For interesting names to call kids, that is!)

Any book written by "committee", however, is going to be confusing reading.

Dorcha

Avoid the “Book of Numbers” – it is just like it says on the lid!

I particularly like “Ecclesiastes”. It tries to work out what life is all about in a non-religious context and comes to no particular conclusion, except, perhaps, that a person must keep on going, even though he does not – and probably never will – understand what it’s all about.

Permabear

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Eliot Rosewater

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

The influence of that particular parable can hardly be argued to have been positive so I'd trust a student writing off such craziness more than someone justifying such horrible "morality".

Okay, but even if you can say that the influence of that exact story has been negative, why does that change it? John Lennon was killed over The Catcher In The Rye, does that mean Salinger's book is to be criticised?

I wasn't justifying the story anyway. I merely like it, and thought it apt in the context. It's mentioned in the first chapter of Slaughterhouse 5. Kurt Vonnegut says he loves Lot's wife because to look back was such a human thing to do.

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

As an aside, I haven't actually met anyone critical of religion

Then your experiance has been different to mine.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yes, the Oxford Worlds Classics edition uses the King James translation. The editors argued that of all Bible translations the King James one has had the greatest impact on the English speaking world, and was thus the most suitable text for an academic Bible. But I do agree with you too - the style of it is great.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Most certainly not!

For what it's worth, the "New Atheists" I refered to in my opening post are the strictly college self-rightous type. Hence the wink.

Religon has had a positive and a negative impact on the world, but some people will only admit this reluctantly, if at all. Rene Decartes recieved his mathematical training from Jesuits, for instance.

metrovelvet

It doesnt matter what you believe. The Bible is a huge literary influence over the West and everything that we are.

You dont need to be a believer to read Paradise Lost either. Still great stuff.

mikhail

I've never met an atheist who dismissed the bible's influence on literature among other things.

The OP asked for some recommendations. I'll suggest Deuteronomy, my favourite book of the bible. Some select quotes to whet your apetite.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Deuteronomy 22:20-21

20But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:

21Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Deuteronomy 23:1

1He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets:

12Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.

Eliot Rosewater

Okay, for the sake of the collective sanity of mankind, consider the New Atheist comment withdrawn. Obviously my experience/perception of college New Atheists is different to most...but that's not a discussion for Literature.

Paddy Samurai

Started reading it myself about 2 years back.I am nearly finished Kings.At the rate i am going ,should be finished it in about 10 years:D.

Enkidu

I think the Bible has several brilliant examples of the power of Semitic literature. I particularly like a device where upon Yahweh (or a similar god in other Semetic literature) confronts a mortal with his grandness to emphasise the vanity of questioning him, e.g.

"Who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb,"
Job 38:8

"Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?"
Job 36:16-17

My only problem is that this vitality in the writing dwindles as the Bible continues and in some respects I find the New Testament a very neutered piece of writing. However the early books are incredible.

If you enjoyed Genesis I would strongly recommend any Akkadian literature.

smcgiff

mikhail wrote: »

Deuteronomy 23:1

He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

some of the language is just too funny. And to think people die in the name of this.

smcgiff

smcgiff wrote: »

some of the language is just too funny. And to think people die in the name of this.

Take that back or your privy member is gonna get it!

...em...not in a good way, just wanted to clear that up right away.