Lost channels? Look here for transmitter/reception issues

Peter Rhea

johnnylancer wrote: »

Is'nt it about time that somebody from Saorview/Transmissions gave answers to the licence payers on what is happening.
I am surprised that no responses are forthcoming as I believe that a representative should be part of this forum

Do you think an official rep is going to give you some reason for poor reception, other than the reasons that have been mentioned in threads here already?

It isn't 'Saorview's fault': everyone here that has poor mux 2 signal quality will have poor mux 1 signal quality too.

DeepBlue

Peter Rhea wrote: »

It isn't 'Saorview's fault': everyone here that has poor mux 2 signal quality will have poor mux 1 signal quality too.

Actually no. Some of us have excellent quality on one mux and poor quality on the other mux which is a bit baffling.

Peter Rhea

DeepBlue wrote: »

Actually no. Some of us have excellent quality on one mux and poor quality on the other mux

Now I just knew someone would post something like this. What 'quality' measurements have you taken? Can you post the figures here? Or are you just basing your assessment on the amount of picture breakup?

DeepBlue

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Now I just knew someone would post something like this. What 'quality' measurements have you taken? Can you post the figures here? Or are you just basing your assessment on the amount of picture breakup?

You're surprised someone disagreed with your factually incorrect statement? Am I supposed to buy a signal reader costing hundreds of euro (I think) to check the signal from a transmitter I can see from my window?

The Cush

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

probably because he was snowed under with complaints

No, it turned into installers vs Saorview.

Peter Rhea

DeepBlue wrote: »

. . . Am I supposed to buy a signal reader costing hundreds of euro (I think) to check the signal from a transmitter I can see from my window?

You don't have to buy anything, same way you don't have to buy tools for other trades when you want a job done.

The Cush

DeepBlue wrote: »

Some of us have excellent quality on one mux and poor quality on the other mux which is a bit baffling.

Excellent quality but maybe borderline signal strength that might not take much to knock it over, difficult to know unless you can see the actual readings at the aerial and at the TV points at the end of cables. Most receivers won't give an actual BER quality reading but only a percentage reading.

The 2 muxes are on 2 different frequencies so an aerial may have to be tweaked to find he sweet spot for the 2 frequencies. Previously I had VHF and UHF aerials for the analogue channels but even though both set of frequencies came from the same transmitter there was noticable difference in directionality

1 poster that did have a similar problem here with an attic aerial, when he moved the aerial outside his mux2 signal issue was sorted.

You need good signal strength for both muxes for consistent signal quality. This will help overcome other issues such as co-channel interference during high pressure conditions.

The Cush

DeepBlue wrote: »

Am I supposed to buy a signal reader costing hundreds of euro (I think) to check the signal from a transmitter I can see from my window?

No just get a professional with a meter in to check the readings, much cheaper than buying a meter. He should be able to rectify any problems also.

johnnylancer

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Now I just knew someone would post something like this. What 'quality' measurements have you taken? Can you post the figures here? Or are you just basing your assessment on the amount of picture breakup?

Quality is when the picture I am looking at is acceptable to me.
Dont need to take a measurement of that.
Quality on MUX 1 is good
Quality on MUX 2 is not acceptable

The Cush

johnnylancer wrote: »

Quality is when the picture I am looking at is acceptable to me.
Dont need to take a measurement of that.
Quality on MUX 1 is good
Quality on MUX 2 is not acceptable

There is a BER figure behind picture quality and when it falls to a certain level your picture breaks up or goes completely if it falls over the "digital cliff". Your issue is somewhere between your aerial and receiver

Peter Rhea

johnnylancer wrote: »

Quality is when the picture I am looking at is acceptable to me.
Dont need to take a measurement of that.
Quality on MUX 1 is good
Quality on MUX 2 is not acceptable

What do you think a Saorview rep is going to do for you? They would just tell you to get your aerial & distribution system checked, same advice you get here now.

Saorview site has contact info here anyway.

Oscarziggy

Been watching this thread with interest so here is my findings during half time of the Wales v Argentina match.
Mt Leinster.
If I scan Ch23 the result is 9 TV and 10 Radio channels found then pull out the aerial to complete the scan before it moves on to Ch26.
If I scan CH26 only the result is 8 TV and 10 Radio channels found.
BUT where are these channels as they certainly aren't viewable --- I only find RTE1 ,RTEjr and RTE1+1 for the CH26 only and NO radio at all.
If I scan both CH23 and CH26 it displays 17 TV and 20 Radio but there aren't 17 TV and 20 Radio channels available.

CH 23 gives me Signal strength 55% and quality 100% with rock steady pictures and sound
CH 26 gives me Signal strength of 55% and quality 100% with rock steady pictures and sound on the channels that don't get automatically wiped off on this strange box I have --- View21.

Why are there so many channels found during the scan ---- there again I've just checked my Sony TV and counted 33 channels in total !!

In reality how many channels should be found from Mt Leinster.??

Regards

The Cush

Oscarziggy wrote: »

In reality how many channels should be found from Mt Leinster.??

These, some are "hidden" test channels. 33 channels on the Sony, TV or TV/radio? Some receivers do no see/store the SSU data channels.

Channel line-up by LCN

LCN

|

Channel

||

Mux

|
01|RTÉ One|HD|2|
02|RTÉ Two|HD|1|
03|TV3|SD|1|
04|TG4|SD|1|
05|3e|SD|1|
06|RTÉ News Now|SD|1|
07|RTÉjr**|SD|2|
08|RTÉ One +1**|SD|2|
09-10|(not used)|||
11|no channel name/programme info (RTÉ 1 simulcast)|SD|1|temporary, ends 11/12th Nov?
12*|(no channel name/testcard)|HD|2|
13*|(no channel name/testcard)|SD|2|RTÉ Lyric FM audio
14*|(no channel name/testcard)|HD|2|TG4 subtitles and teletext tested previously
15*|(no channel name/testcard)|SD|2| RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta audio
16|(not used)|||
17|no channel name/programme info (RTÉjr simulcast**)|SD|1|temporary, ends 11/12th Nov?
18|no channel name/programme info (RTÉ1 +1 simulcast**)|SD|1|temporary, ends 11/12th Nov?
200|RTÉ Radio 1|Radio|1|
201|RTÉ Radio 1 Extra|Radio|1|
202|RTÉ 2FM|Radio|1|
203|RTÉ Lyric FM|Radio|1|
204|RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta|Radio|1|
205|RTÉ Pulse|Radio|1|
206|RTÉ 2XM|Radio|1|
207*|(no service carried)||1|previously RTÉ Choice
208|RTÉ Gold|Radio|1|
209|RTÉ Junior/RTÉ Chill|Radio|1|
210|(not used)||
211-212*|(no radio channel names)|Radio|2|no audio
213*|(no radio channel name)|Radio|2|RTÉ Lyric FM audio
214*|(no radio channel name)|Radio|2|RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta audio
215-217*|(no radio channel names)|Radio|2|no audio
218-219*|(no radio channel name)|Radio|2|RTÉ Gold audio
220*|(no radio channel name)|Radio|2|no audio
249*|SSU|data channel|1|
250*|SSU|data channel|2|

* Hidden but can be selected by entering the channel no. via the remote control
** RTÉjr 0700-1845 approx / RTÉ One +1 1900-0100/0200 approx. Timesharing

Oscarziggy

The Cush.
Yes sorry I should have checked back through your posts for the list --- I take it these are common for all transmitters (apart from the relays).
Including the radio, yes, 33 listed and sorted into some sort of pattern by me in the 800s away from the UK listed channels starting 001 etc.
Regards

The Cush

Oscarziggy wrote: »

I take it these are common for all transmitters (apart from the relays).

All transmitters including the relays.

marclt

I guess it depends on the box you have.

I have an I-Can Easy HD stb, it gives me the hidden channels that can't been seen on a saorview box. An array of test cards.

Although I'm finding Mt. Leinster 23 to be more problematic to receive than 26. Must have a fiddle with the cabling tomorrow.

Antenna

DeepBlue wrote: »

to check the signal from a transmitter I can see from my window?

What transmitter can you see out the window? (it could be a very directional relay)

Is your aerial at the correct polarisation for it?

Galway

Jpmarn wrote: »

My brother on the other side of Limerick City with regards to mux 2 from Maghera. The reception isn't that good while mux 1 is pretty good. The issue he has is his aerial isn't properly aligned. You may have a similar problem.

It is important to ensure the correct UHF group aerial is being used. A group B aerial will cover channels 35-53 it will give better reception on Mux 1 from Maghera which on ch 48 and less good reception on channel 55 (mux 2 from Maghera). The recommended group aerial for Maghera is UHF group C/D (channels 48-68). Also the optimum transmitter for parts of Limerick city may not be Maghera - this is why the Woodcock Hill relay was originally introduced. Other parts of the city may be able to get a better signal from the Mullaghanish main transmitter on the Cork/Kerry border. A group B aerial is recommended for Woodcock Hill and a group A aerial (channels 21-37) for Mullaghanish. Avoid wideband aerials at all costs as they can provide unreliable reception except in strong signal areas.

The Cush

Galway wrote: »

Avoid wideband aerials at all costs as they can provide unreliable reception except in strong signal areas.

Anyone using a UHF aerial from analogue TV days for Maghera would probably be using a Group C/D or wideband aerial as TV3 and TG4 used Chs.66/68. These may cause problems down the road from Meteor 4G if used in conjunction with a legacy masthead amp in the vicinity of a 4G base station. A new Group T aerial should be recommended now.

Galway

The Cush wrote: »

Anyone using a UHF aerial from analogue TV days for Maghera would probably be using a Group C/D or wideband aerial as TV3 and TG4 used Chs.66/68. These may cause problems down the road from Meteor 4G if used in conjunction with a legacy masthead amp in the vicinity of a 4G base station. A new Group T aerial should be recommended now.

If using a masthead amp near a 4g base station of course, otherwise a c/d should be fine

Peter Rhea

Galway wrote: »

Avoid wideband aerials at all costs as they can provide unreliable reception except in strong signal areas.

Avoid at all costs?! Don't be daft.

Galway wrote: »

If using a masthead amp near a 4g base station of course, otherwise a c/d should be fine

If there is a strong enough signal from the base station, you will get interference or overload, amplifier or not.

The Cush

Peter Rhea wrote: »

If there is a strong enough signal from the base station, you will get interference or overload, amplifier or not.

That's correct, base stations in the same direction as the TV transmitter may also cause problems.

Meteor's 4G coverage map will be a useful reference in due course for people reporting problems in this region of the UHF band. I wonder if this was the reason Three Rock moved from there down to the 30s in summer 2012?

Galway

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Don't be daft.

Nothing daft about avoiding so called 'wideband' aerials. FYI the only true WB aerials are log periodics. Try using a WB for a group A transmitter in a fringe area? Or maybe you might just stick a masthead amp in to increase the signal, instead of using the correct grouped aerial? To my knowledge most of the Saorview main tx and relays have muxes 1 and 2 in the same group. Therefore no need to use a WB aerial.

Peter Rhea

I would be pretty sure not 1 problem reported here over the past few weeks is due to wideband aerials being used in place of grouped.

Galway

Peter Rhea wrote: »

I would be pretty sure not 1 problem reported here over the past few weeks is due to wideband aerials being used in place of grouped.

It could be a contributory factor when poor quality WB or incorrect group aerials that give insufficient gain are used in areas where reception can be less than adequate. Poor cable may also be a factor.

The Cush

Galway wrote: »

Try using a WB for a group A transmitter in a fringe area? Or maybe you might just stick a masthead amp in to increase the signal, instead of using the correct grouped aerial? To my knowledge most of the Saorview main tx and relays have muxes 1 and 2 in the same group. Therefore no need to use a WB aerial.

Was once told by a person in certain store in Limerick city that grouped aerials were no longer being manufactured, only widebands were available. When challenged that they were widely available on the internet the reason changed to "well our supplier no longer does them". They also install dishes and aerials in the Limerick/Clare/N Tipp area so there are a lot of widebands in that area.

All Saorview Muxes 1 & 2 are in group.

Peter Rhea

Galway wrote: »

It could be a contributory factor when poor quality WB or incorrect group aerials that give insufficient gain are used in areas where reception can be less than adequate. Poor cable may also be a factor.

The problem is people are setting up for Saorview without anything to give them a proper indication of signal quality. They would be better off getting someone in with the right test equipment & the know-how to use it, rather than trying to guess what 'improvement' to try next.

Galway

The Cush wrote: »

Was once told by a person in certain store in Limerick city that grouped aerials were no longer being manufactured, only widebands were available. When challenged that they were widely available on the internet the reason changed to "well our supplier no longer does them". They also install dishes and aerials in the Limerick/Clare/N Tipp area so there are a lot of widebands in that area.

All Saorview Muxes 1 & 2 are in group.

Widebands = lazy installing. I have a proper terrestrial meter which of course is essential when correctly aligning aerials and determining whether there is a usable stable signal.

Peter Rhea

Galway wrote: »

Widebands = lazy installing.

All wideband aerials? Anyway, even the grouped ones are relatively 'wideband' when you consider the single channel aerials that were in use years ago.

Another thing, I wouldn't advise anyone to fit a group C/D now: apart from the already mentioned interference issues, there is the prospect of a '700 mHz band' clearance that would see all of group C/D going to the mobile operators.

The Cush

Galway wrote: »

Widebands = lazy installing.

The new LTE wideband Group T aerial will eventually replace Group W, C/D and B aerials.