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Lost channels? Look here for transmitter/reception issues

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    #812
    sligojoek
    Registered Users Posts: 25,420 ✭✭✭✭sligojoek


    Is the rectangle mesh arial with 4Xs at the front a wideband?

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRsTFIX1vNAzTXaJ8X3cMCO4T6cPxxb2bRulflTUDqd7mKy15GwTg

    I have one of these pointed at Truskmore just 6 - 7 kms away. The reading on my TV gives me 3 bars signal strength and signal quality "GOOD (BER:0 x 1e-6)

    My channels are all fine but I thought that being so close to the mast I'd be getting 5 bars and excellent quality


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    #813
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    My local supplier is also doing aerials with built-in LTE Filter. ch21-ch60.
    Group A, B, C/D and K are not stock in his store / shop.


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    #814
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,548 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    sligojoek wrote: »
    Is the rectangle mesh arial with 4Xs at the front a wideband?

    yes, bowtie/grid.

    Cable, connections etc can reduce the signal strength. I wouldn't rely too much on the TV's in built meter, the only way to know for sure what the signal is like at the aerial would be to check it at the aerial with a proper professional meter. The BER is very good.


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    #815
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,548 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Souriau wrote: »
    My local supplier is also doing LTE aerials. ch21-ch60.
    Group A, B, C/D and K are not stock in his store / shop.

    What Group aerials is he selling? Why is he not selling Group A aerials?


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    #816
    sligojoek
    Registered Users Posts: 25,420 ✭✭✭✭sligojoek


    Thanks Cush. Would that be good enough to run 2 more saorview boxes or TVs or would I need an amp?

    On the subject of Truskmore, I was up there a few weeks ago. I'll post a few pics I took on the Truskmore thread.


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    #817
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,893 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Galway wrote: »
    Widebands = lazy installing.

    Perhaps they are now, but Three Rock analogue needed a wideband, and there were probably others.

    The Dublin Airport cap is damaging the economy of Ireland as a whole, and must be scrapped forthwith.



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    #818
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,548 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    sligojoek wrote: »
    Would that be good enough to run 2 more saorview boxes or TVs or would I need an amp?

    Not sure, depends on how good the signal is. You could try it out with a decent splitter or go straight to a standard distribution amp.


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    #819
    sligojoek
    Registered Users Posts: 25,420 ✭✭✭✭sligojoek


    The Cush wrote: »
    Not sure, depends on how good the signal is. You could try it out with a decent splitter or go straight to a standard distribution amp.

    I have a 3 way splitter. I'll give it a shot first. I can borrow a box from a neighbour and try the kitchen TV for starters.

    I put up 3 photos of Truskmore. I'll do 2 or 3 more tomorrow.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87555568&postcount=2


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    #820
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    The Cush wrote: »
    What Group aerials is he selling? Why is he not selling Group A aerials?
    He is stocking the new LTE filtered aerial that cover the frequency for ch21 to ch60.
    The supplier told him that is to future-proof any new changes to the transmission frequency, i.e. to move outside a given group.
    I checked for Divis and see no plan as yet for new frequency outside of Group A but there is 2 new channels, 33 and 34 coming.
    I checked Triax aerials


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    #821
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    Souriau wrote: »
    The supplier told him that is to future-proof any new changes to the transmission frequency, i.e. to move outside a given group.
    I checked for Divis and see no plan as yet for new frequency outside of Group A

    Where did you 'check for Divis'? Ukfree? If there is a '700 mHz' clearance, there will be a new frequency plan for all transmitters & who knows how accommodating it will be to legacy aerial installations this time round.


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    #822
    johnnylancer
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭johnnylancer


    Peter Rhea wrote: »
    There more than likely isn't much difference in signal quality: you can't tell this from watching programmes. Slightly worse than apparently 'excellent' can mean you get 'no signal' message.
    I have not done anything with cables/aerial etc and the reception on RTE1 HD ( MUX 2 ) is excellent since yesterday 17th.
    Has something changed?


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    #823
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    Probably just a slight, random change in propagation conditions. Will almost certainly revert to previous condition.


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    #824
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,548 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Souriau wrote: »
    The supplier told him that is to future-proof any new changes to the transmission frequency, i.e. to move outside a given group.
    I checked for Divis and see no plan as yet for new frequency outside of Group A but there is 2 new channels, 33 and 34 coming.
    I checked Triax aerials

    As Peter says above the new LTE Group T aerial group will have to be revised once again when the Digital Dividend 2 reallocation begins towards the end of the decade (Ch.49 upwards).

    It would be interesting to see the gain curve for the Group A vs Group T at the lower end of the band (Divis, Mullaghanish etc.)


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    #825
    Galway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Galway


    The Cush wrote: »
    The new LTE wideband Group T aerial will eventually replace Group W, C/D and B aerials.

    2yv7zev.jpg

    There could be problems using a WB 21-60 LTE aerial in group A fringe areas. I suspect the gain in group A of any such aerial is likely to be a lot lower than a specific group A aerial.


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    #826
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,548 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Galway wrote: »
    I suspect the gain in group A of any such aerial is likely to be a lot lower than a specific group A aerial.

    As I said above that it would be interesting to see the gain curve for the Group A vs Group T.


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    #827
    Galway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Galway


    Peter Rhea wrote: »
    All wideband aerials? Anyway, even the grouped ones are relatively 'wideband' when you consider the single channel aerials that were in use years ago.

    Another thing, I wouldn't advise anyone to fit a group C/D now: apart from the already mentioned interference issues, there is the prospect of a '700 mHz band' clearance that would see all of group C/D going to the mobile operators.

    It is probably not going to make a lot of difference in strong signal areas but the use of WB aerials can lead to problematic reception when there is period of dry settled weather and a high pressure system over the country. Grouped aerials are far more effective at rejecting out of group frequencies and reducing CCI. There are many many group C/D aerials still up in areas served by the Maghera and Clermont Cairn Txs - legacy from the UHF analogue days.


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    #828
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    Galway wrote: »
    . . . the use of WB aerials can lead to problematic reception when there is period of dry settled weather and a high pressure system over the country. Grouped aerials are far more effective at rejecting out of group frequencies and reducing CCI.

    Co-channel interference? As in, interference caused by another transmission on the same channel? (Big clue in the name 'co-channel'.) So how does it arise from transmissions on out-of-group frequencies?


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    #829
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    Peter Rhea wrote: »
    Where did you 'check for Divis'? Ukfree? If there is a '700 mHz' clearance, there will be a new frequency plan for all transmitters & who knows how accommodating it will be to legacy aerial installations this time round.

    Yes, that's why I can't find it. I find it strange to drop the group aerial for a wideband aerial as I do know that wideband aerial have lower gain in lower channel frequency, take the new Digi 6 LTE filter aerial
    at ch.21 is half the gain for ch.60.


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    #830
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    The Cush wrote: »
    . . . it would be interesting to see the gain curve for the Group A vs Group T.

    What about the curves shown for the Unix 52A & Unix 52 channel 21-60 here: http://www.triax.co.uk/upload/aerialsjuly13.pdf


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    #831
    Galway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Galway


    Peter Rhea wrote: »
    Co-channel interference? As in, interference caused by another transmission on the same channel? (Big clue in the name 'co-channel'.) So how does it arise from transmissions on out-of-group frequencies?

    When the propagation characteristics change due to weather conditions allowing distant transmissions, often from transmitters outside the state to received. A wideband aerial has far less discrimination against unwanted signals than a grouped one. The only true wideband aerial is a log periodic and it is most suited for use in strong signal areas. Other wideband aerials are likely to give poor gain in the A group, where extra signal is needed in a difficult reception area.


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    #832
    Galway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Galway


    Peter Rhea wrote: »
    What about the curves shown for the Unix 52A & Unix 52 channel 21-60 here: http://www.triax.co.uk/upload/aerialsjuly13.pdf

    As expected peaking in the C/D group.


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    #833
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    Galway wrote: »
    When the propagation characteristics change due to weather conditions allowing distant transmissions, often from transmitters outside the state to received. A wideband aerial has far less discrimination against unwanted signals than a grouped one.

    What kind of 'unwanted signals'? The troublemakers during 'tropo' conditions are other transmitters on the same channel: how does your grouped aerial discriminate against those?
    Galway wrote: »
    Other wideband aerials are likely to give poor gain in the A group, where extra signal is needed in a difficult reception area.

    Nobody here would dispute that group A aerials are better for receiving group A signals.


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    #834
    Galway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Galway


    Peter Rhea wrote: »
    What kind of 'unwanted signals'? The troublemakers during 'tropo' conditions are other transmitters on the same channel: how does your grouped aerial discriminate against those?

    Better side and rear rejection unless its contract piece of crap


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    #835
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,548 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Peter Rhea wrote: »
    What about the curves shown for the Unix 52A & Unix 52 channel 21-60 here: http://www.triax.co.uk/upload/aerialsjuly13.pdf

    Thanks Peter, it's the first gain curve I've seen for the new Group T aerials, peaking at the bottom of the C/D group and dropping away from there to the LTE band .


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    #836
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,548 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Galway wrote: »
    Better side and rear rejection unless its contract piece of crap

    The favoured aerial of the installation trade in this part of the world.


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    #837
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    Galway wrote: »
    Better side and rear rejection unless its contract piece of crap

    Well yes, more gain at a particular frequency i.e. energy focused in the wanted direction, means less radiated or picked up from unwanted directions.

    Have to say though, use of words like 'contract piece of crap' makes me think you're just parroting someone else.


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    #838
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,548 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    I'm surprised 2RN/RTÉNL aren't yet including the new LTE aerial group in their documentation even though they include an information note regarding full range wideband aerials - http://www.2rn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/2RN-DTT-Television-Transmission-Network-Nov-2013.pdf


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    #839
    johnnylancer
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭johnnylancer


    Peter Rhea wrote: »
    Probably just a slight, random change in propagation conditions. Will almost certainly revert to previous condition.
    You were correct the signal on MUX 2 is as bad as ever now on Maghera Transmitter
    Signal strength on MUX 1 is 100% Quality and 100% strength
    Signal on MUX 2 is 24% Quality and 92% strength
    Comments please


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    #840
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,548 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    johnnylancer wrote: »
    Comments please

    Get an installer in to check it out if you cant do it yourself.


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    #841
    Galway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Galway


    johnnylancer wrote: »
    You were correct the signal on MUX 2 is as bad as ever now on Maghera Transmitter
    Signal strength on MUX 1 is 100% Quality and 100% strength
    Signal on MUX 2 is 24% Quality and 92% strength
    Comments please

    You must have an issue with your aerial installation. Maybe you need one of those new LTE aerials??


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