8 months training (in preparation of puppy)...

Zulu

Hello all, I'm hoping you can provide me with some good help and advice. I'm planning (hoping) on getting a pup in June, 2011 (if possible), and am starting my research now, so apologies in advance for the longish post.

Firstly, let me be honest & clear: I live in a medium/large apartment with no outside space other that 2 balconies (8 x 1.5 metres). And secondly, I work, so I won't be at home during the day. But, before I'm slated...

I can take first month off as holidays to be there 24/7, and, I can arrange a working day of 9:30am-12pm & 2pm-4pm for the following few months. Also, I live 10mins from work, so this means the young dog won't be at home too long on it's own. My intention will be to increase these periods as the dog grows older & settles, to me being able to be away for the full day of 8am-4pm. Also, the plan is that the apartment will only be until the start of 2012, when we'll be moving to a house with suitable garden (and hopefully starting a family). I understand that initially the puppy will make a mess everywhere, every 20-30 mins.
Will the puppy be able to hold it in for 2-3hours after 2/3 months?
Is the above situation with times appropriate?
Is it feasible to train the dog to toilet on a litter box on the balcony (and outside)?

In relation to exercise, my intention is to walk the dog first & last thing for 10-15mins (around the block), and take it for an hour walk when I get home.
Is this sufficient?
Or would 30 mins in the morning, evening & at night be better?

Personally, I’d prefer a larger dog like a lab (as I grew up with a golden lab, I’m a huge fan) but I am aware that they’re not the most suitable to apartment living (although they are well suited to family life), so I would consider smaller/more suitable breeds. But bear in mind the dog will be exposed to a lot of children (nephews & nieces and hopefully…) – NEVER unsupervised mind you!
Can you recommend any more suitable breeds?

In terms of holidays, my dad is retired, as is my father-in-law. Both have kept dogs, & love them, and have agreed to care for the dog for the duration of a holiday.

Is there anything else I’m missing?
Could you recommend any training books??
Any advice???

Thanks for reading.n

tulipi

Hi Zulu,
I'm in the same situation as you and have had my puppy for 2 months now. I also work but can take a long lunch and live close to work so Mabel is never alone for more than 3 hours at a time and I also took time off at the start so that I could get her settled, like you plan to. I also can work from home one or two days a week.

I use a crate and have found this really helpful to have a safe place for her while i'm away. I don't use a litter tray but have read a lot of successful stories and had considered it. I think it can work depending on your situation. I'm planning on getting a pen next and leave the door of the crate open and give her a little more space. Once she is good there and has shown that she doesn't have any accidents I plan on gradually extending the space that she has access to until eventually she will have free roam of the apartment. I have found that she does fine and doesn't have any accidents when left for a few hours. BUT I make sure to take her out to the bathroom before I leave here. For the first while that you plan on being home with her I'd start getting her used to small periods on her own so that when you leave for work the puppy doesn't get a shock.

In terms of walking I do about the same for Mabel - short walk in the morning and at lunch. Long walk in the evening and also small toilet breaks throughout.

I would advise looking up various breed advisory sites to find what would suit you best but I have a pug and she's fabulous. The reason why I chose a pug is that they are sociable, happy go lucky dogs who are good with children. They are the smallest of the toy breed which are sometimes considered snappy but because pugs are sturdy enough to handle small children tugging at them etc. they are really good. I want to have children in the next few years and needed to find a dog that would be good with young kids. I have found Mabel to be great with kids and she loves them and is very gentle with them. So that would be my recommendation but they do have some health problems so find a good breeder.

One thing I would recommend is taking her to day care one or two days a week - i take my puppy 2 days a week and she loves it. she gets great socialisation with other dogs and it means that on the other days when i'm at work she's happy enough to sleep the day away with all the activity the day before.

In terms of books I found 'The Perfect Puppy' by Gwen Bailey and 'It's me or the dog - How to have the perfect pet' by trainer victoria stilwell really good.

Other than that - good luck and enjoy. I waited and researched for months ahead like you are planning on and it's tough waiting but it's worth it in the end to be so prepared and know what you're getting into

Cherry Blossom

If I were you personally I'd wait untill after you move. A change of circumstances can be quite stressfull to a dog and moving may set back all the hard work you did up till that point. As you have plenty of time do lots of research on any breed you might consider and pay special attention to health issues that are previlant in each breed. This is often something that is over looked and really is the most important aspect. When you decide on a breed there are lots of breed specific forums on the internet that have a wealth of information provided by current owners. Be careful of some of the larger breeds like labs that are also very boisterous as they can easily knock over a child by accident. You can't really teach a dog to use a litter tray IMO. Good luck with your research

Gran Hermano

Zulu, you may find this useful for overviews of different breeds
http://animal.discovery.com/videos/top-10-family-dogs/

Zulu

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

If I were you personally I'd wait untill after you move. ...

If I do that, there is no way I could come home at lunch, and I would most probably be away longer (considering commute times to work) - which is why I was thinking about getting the dog in June before I move as opposed to holding off.

tulipi

A change of circumstances can be quite stressfull to a dog and moving may set back all the hard work you did up till that point.

While I agree with this I don't think it should put someone off getting a dog altogether. There are things you can do to help a dog when you move house. Crate training would really help here because where ever you go the dog has it's 'safe place' that it feels like is home. When you are in the process of moving have a particular room in the old house where you keep the dog while all the chaos is going on. If you have movers put a sign on the door saying 'KEEP OUT - DOG SLEEPING' or something to that effect. Have all your dogs things in this room so that it feels ok. They'll probably pick up on the fact that something's happening because dogs can sense these things. And also they'll be able to sense the stress and as we all know moving is a very stressful occasion.

Taking your dog into the car or van should be the last thing you do and again - crate, all the dog's favourite things etc. Before you get to the new house have a particular room that the dog will be in for the unpacking period. Again, crate, toys, water etc. in this room so that the dogs feels ok about things.

Once you're settled in, you can introduce the dog to the new house. Show the dog where it's food and water bowls will now be, his bed etc etc.

It probably would be best if you could take a day or two off to get the dog settled into the new house and make sure that your toilet training is still in place in the new house. It may be a good idea to go back to basics and reduce the amount of space the dog has to roam around the house if it was given full reign. So just a room at first (put a baby gate up or something). And then gradually more room once you're sure that he still konws that he should only go outside or on the litter tray if that's what you plan on doing.

You can't really teach a dog to use a litter tray IMO

In terms of the litter tray. I don't see why you can't. It's just not the done thing in Ireland. In many other countries people have dogs in apartments and they do very well. I also don't think that this teaches dogs to go inside just anywhere. It teaches dogs that yes they can go inside - on a litter tray. I watched an episode of Caesar Milan and he uses litter trays for his small dogs because they live in the house with him and can't always make it outside because they have small bladders and short legs. So it CAN work. I considered using this http://www.petplanet.co.uk/product.asp?dept_id=479&pf_id=53298. I liked it because it had a clip on grate so that the dog wouldn't be able to get at the pad. Also, the pads are washable and reusable so better for the environment. You can use them something like 50 times before you need to get a new one. And the refills are cheap enough.

Hope that helps you Zulu. Any other questions feel free to PM me or reply

Zulu

Thanks a million Tulipi, every little thing is helpful! To be honest my primary concern is the apartment. I've always been of the mind that they are wholly not suitable. Full stop. But after some research, it's not so black & white, hence I am where I am.

I'm VERY keen to talk to someone who has a dog in an apartment, so I'll take you up on that offer of a PM later in the day! Thanks.

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Zulu, you may find this useful for overviews of different breeds...

That was great - thanks a million Gran Hermano! (name from Arrested Development per chance?) One question I have from it (and other US sites):
They say when reviewing the retriever that they are "fine in an apartment" but require exercise. When they talk about apartments in the US, are they the same as our ones here? I ask because there was another site that had a suitability questionnaire and there were 3 sizes: cozy, apartment or duplex, & house. To me, I'd imagine the 3 sizes to be apartment, house, or farm. What gives?

I've come across a mix-breed a goldadore (Lab/retriever mix), are these available in Ireland (from reputable breeders)?

Zulu

According to this site http://www.gifts-for-dog-lovers.com/goldadors.html "labs can be very independent, as long as they have a toy to chew, they don't really care if their master is around or not". This can't be true, is it? I seem to be finding very conflicting information.

Toulouse

Zulu wrote: »

According to this site http://www.gifts-for-dog-lovers.com/goldadors.html "labs can be very independent, as long as they have a toy to chew, they don't really care if their master is around or not". This can't be true, is it? I seem to be finding very conflicting information.

Definitely not true. I'd stick to asking people who actually know and own labs for advice about them. The web will just tell you what you want to hear.

We get an awful lot of labs surrendered because people wanted a cute puppy and didn't realise that they grow up into high energy bouncy dogs and in my own personal opinion, they are not suitable dogs for apartments due to their love of chewing, need for stimulation and as I already said high energy drive.

Also if I were you I'd steer clear of Goldadors. Yet another mongrel with a pretty name designed to part fools with their money. No reputable breeder would ever produce these dogs.

If you want a pure-bred then go down the correct route and find a good breeder. If you don't then there are loads of lab x puppies in pounds and shelters around the country.

Zulu

Yea, as I said, I grew up with a Lab, so I was surprised to see that alright. Personally I don't mind the high energy or the chewing, so long as the dog is happy. But I need to be sure I could keep the dog happy. I guess if i knew that myself, I wouldn't be looking for advice.

Why do you say no breeder would produce these? You seem very adamant (I'm sensing a sub-text that there is a major problem with producing this cross), how come? What am I missing?

(To be honest, I really don't mind being a "fool falling for another mongrel with a pretty name", if it's the right dog, and it'll live a happy life in my situation! )

Could you suggest other suitable dogs for an apartment?

andreac

Zulu wrote: »

Yea, as I said, I grew up with a Lab, so I was surprised to see that alright. Personally I don't mind the high energy or the chewing, so long as the dog is happy. But I need to be sure I could keep the dog happy. I guess if i knew that myself, I wouldn't be looking for advice.

Why do you say no breeder would produce these? You seem very adamant (I'm sensing a sub-text that there is a major problem with producing this cross), how come? What am I missing?

(To be honest, I really don't mind being a "fool falling for another mongrel with a pretty name", if it's the right dog, and it'll live a happy life in my situation! )

Could you suggest other suitable dogs for an apartment?

I deffo would not be suggesting na lab or a retriever for an apartment. They are very high energy dogs that need a lot of space, stimulation and exercise and i can guarantee you would come home to your apartment all messed up if you kept either of these breeds in it.

Why not go for a greyhound? They are big couch potatoes so would love to laze around an apartment all day. They dont need loads of exercise at all, one walk in the evening would be enough for them and they make fantastic pets.

No so called breeder that crosses 2 breeds intentially is reputable. Its against kennel club rules to do this btw too so please stay away from anyone advertising these so called made up named breeds and do not hand over any money for them. There are plenty of mongrels for free in pounds and rescues that wont cost you hundreds of euros.

Zulu

Cheers for clearing that up Andreac! I've pretty much discounted (but not totally written off) a Greyound, so I'd welcome other suggestions.

andreac

Zulu wrote: »

Cheers for clearing that up Andreac! I've pretty much discounted (but not totally written off) a Greyound, so I'd welcome other suggestions.

Are you looking for a bigger sized dog? Or would you go for a smaller one.

Zulu

andreac wrote: »

Are you looking for a bigger sized dog? Or would you go for a smaller one.

I'd prefer a bigger dog. I certainly don't like pugs or other tiny dogs.

I'd love a Lab/Boxer/German Shepard/Collie/Newfoundland, but alas.

tulipi

Zulu, the best thing would be to check the energy levels of the dog breeds that you like. For apartment living, unless you're going to be going for a 2 hour run twice a day with your large breed, high energy dog, you're going to need to find a low energy dog.

That's why a greyhound is a good suggestion. If you're hell bent on a large breed then possibly a great dane, bulldog or mastiff would be other options. Pretty much all the breeds you're talking about there are pretty high energy and wouldn't really be suitable. Unless like I say, you're willing to put an awful lot of effort in in terms of exercise.

I chose a pug specifically because of their energy levels and then fell in love with the fact that they have massive personalities and are so friendly. But if a pug had high energy I would have had to look elsewhere.

You should be looking at energy levels, personality (good with kids etc) first a foremost. Looks then second I'm afraid. This is why dogs get abandoned, because people like the look of them but don't consider the time, exercise etc they require or their suitability to their lifestyle.

andreac

Zulu wrote: »

I'd prefer a bigger dog. I certainly don't like pugs or other tiny dogs.

I'd love a Lab/Boxer/German Shepard/Collie/Newfoundland, but alas.

Im afraid none of those breeds will suit an apartment. If you are really set on getting one of those then you will just have to wait until you are in your house.

I wanted a rottweiler for most of my life and i got one finally in 2007 when i had my own house and had finished college etc and could manage and the space, time etc for the breed. I now have 2:D

It was def worth waiting for, so if its one of those breeds you really want, then another year or so isnt really that long to wait.

Zulu

My concern about waiting until I'm in the new place is that I won't be able to spend as much time with the pup & it'll have to spend long periods of time on it's own from the very beginning (ie: 7/8am- 5:30/6pm Mon-Fri).

My plan was to use the proximity of the apartment to help the pup settle into spending long periods of time on it's own. I could spend the first few months of the pups life with out having to leave it more than a few hours, then increase this time, over a period until the dog was comfortable spending the day on it's own.

I guess what I'm saying is that my primary concern is leaving a dog on it's own for the day while I'm in work "straight off the bat".

My thinking was that for the first couple of months, the pup would smaller and not require a whole lot of space. I understand though, that by a year - they'd need a garden. I'm trying to find the best strategy to manage my circumstances.

Say I wait until I have a garden:
I could only take 3 weeks off work initially to be 24/7 with the pup. Then (assuming no one is at home on maternity leave) the dog would be home alone from (at best) 8:30am to 5pm Monday to Friday or (at worst) 7:30am to 6pm.

It was my feeling that this was the least desirable situation. Is my thinking wrong on this one?

andreac

Zulu wrote: »

My concern about waiting until I'm in the new place is that I won't be able to spend as much time with the pup & it'll have to spend long periods of time on it's own from the very beginning (ie: 7/8am- 5:30/6pm Mon-Fri).

My plan was to use the proximity of the apartment to help the pup settle into spending long periods of time on it's own. I could spend the first few months of the pups life with out having to leave it more than a few hours, then increase this time, over a period until the dog was comfortable spending the day on it's own.

I guess what I'm saying is that my primary concern is leaving a dog on it's own for the day while I'm in work "straight off the bat".

My thinking was that for the first couple of months, the pup would smaller and not require a whole lot of space. I understand though, that by a year - they'd need a garden. I'm trying to find the best strategy to manage my circumstances.

Say I wait until I have a garden:
I could only take 3 weeks off work initially to be 24/7 with the pup. Then (assuming no one is at home on maternity leave) the dog would be home alone from (at best) 8:30am to 5pm Monday to Friday or (at worst) 7:30am to 6pm.

It was my feeling that this was the least desirable situation. Is my thinking wrong on this one?

If you wait until you move to your house, you could get a slightly older dog, not a puppy, that wouldnt need as much time from the word go for toilet training etc.

Or you could get 2 dogs so they keep each other company.

Zulu

Two dogs, as much as I'd love it, is a total non-runner. Total. She'd never go for it. Maybe in the future, but not now. Not for a long while.

I would have thought that older dogs would be very difficult to get unless they were rescue dogs? Would rescue shelters find someone who isn't at home during the day suitable?

DeadlyByDesign

Hi

I will be getting a great dane soon and plan to settle the dog during the 3 weeks I have off over xmas. Like you I have to work 9-5 and during those hours I plan to keep it in a doggy day care. A lot of people might be of the opinion that leaving a dog of any age for 8 hours + is a bit too long?

Zulu

Yea, I do appricate that, but, like you, I'm not fortunate enough to be at home during the day.

LisaO

Zulu wrote: »

According to this site http://www.gifts-for-dog-lovers.com/goldadors.html "labs can be very independent, as long as they have a toy to chew, they don't really care if their master is around or not". This can't be true, is it? I seem to be finding very conflicting information.

As someone who has owned 2 labs - both male & very different personalities -I can whole-heartedly say that nothing could be further from the truth. Labs very much enjoy having their people around, thrive on lots of interaction & become pretty screwed-up if left to their own devices. Physically, they are robust & hardy but emotionally they are quite needy. They are definitely not a dog that should be left on their own regularly as they will develop undesirable behaviours & become very difficult to manage.

Personally, I don't think that gradually "building -up" the amount of time that a dog is left alone for is effective, as time doesn't impact on a dog the same as it does on us. Depending on a dog's mental make-up it will either be able to cope with being alone or not. If it can't, then it makes no difference if you leave it for one hour or ten - the dog will still be miserable & anxious.

Zulu

tulipi wrote: »

Zulu, the best thing would be to check the energy levels of the dog breeds that you like.

Thanks a million for that Tulipi! That's exactly what I'll do (by the by - and only cause you mentioned it - looks aren't what matters to me. My almost uncontrollable urge to get a Lab stems from my family getting one the year before I was born. I grew up with a Lab, so it's the breed I know the best... just for clarity)

I hate the internet! The first result when I googled "low energy dogs" got me this: http://www.gopetsamerica.com/dogs/low-activity-dogs.aspx, scroll down to the bottom part of the list; to the last medium sized dog... :mad: FU crappy internet telling me lies...

00112984

Zulu, I live in an apartment and have a dog. I grew up with large breeds but, due to lack of space, went for a Cavalier King Charles. We've had her for almost two years now and it has worked out pretty well. My situation is a little different from yours as I'm home with her all day so the most she's ever been on her own has been maybe 5 hours and that's happened once.

PM me if you'd like more info on the practicalities.

tk123

I have a 15 month old retriever - would he be ok in an apartment space wise - yes. Would he be ok on his own in an apartment - no way. He loves company too much. Would he be ok in an apartment when he's a little older - possibly as he gets more settled and less clingy. Would I leave him on his own either way - probably not because I'd be worried about him causing a nuisance or missing me - probably he wouldn't care and sleep all day! :pac:
Energy wise a walk first thing and then when I come home is enough for him and we practice our training too and he's getting nice and settled now. Rewind 6 months and he was mental lol and the idea that he'd sit beside you on the couch all evening was the stuff dreams were made of!

OP have you thought of daycare - our guy goes and he's knocked out the day afterwards and it's great to use up his energy and play.

Also just because the dog is high energy doesn't mean you need to go for 2 hour runs with it etc - playing tug or learning tricks/training wears them out just as much. Our guy has problems with his legs at the moment and is restricted in the excercise he can do but we have other ways of stimulating him so he's not hyper.

PS have you considered an older lab/retriever - eg one thats out of the mad puppy stage?

Cherry Blossom

OP I completely understand that you have your heart set on the breed and plan of action, but I think you are going to have to compromise with yourself somewhere. You still have plenty of time so why not get yourself to some shows and meet other breeds of dogs. You will find most owners happy to talk for hours about their dogs . You might actually be very surprised. This is comming from someone who wanted a Doberman and ended up with a Westie

ppink

Op maybe check out Dogs101 on you tube. the did a load of different shows on the different breeds for Animal Planet and gives you an idea of the + and - with each breed.
The only thing i will say is that when you do move if you are out all day long the dog will be very lonely if you only have one or the daycare is a good idea either.
Why did you rule out the Greyhound?

username123

What about a Lurcher - its a greyhound mix, all sizes, couch potatoes, great with kids, suitable for apartment living, not barkers.

Thats another issue youd want to consider in an aprtment, my neighbour (apartment block) got a rescue dog from apound, no clue about breeds etc no research and the dog barks 24/7. All the surrounding apartments are driven mad by it. Its mostly boredom, the dog is home alone far too much and its a high energy terrier mix.

tk123

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

This is comming from someone who wanted a Doberman and ended up with a Westie

A.J. did you give the westie a tough-guy dobie name to make up for it? :pac:

Cherry Blossom

tk123 wrote: »

A.J. did you give the westie a tough-guy dobie name to make up for it? :pac:

LOL- I let the kids name her, so this is Poppy (:rolleyes:) Just after my 3 yr old niece came 2nd with her in the young handlers class at a local pet show to raise funds for the donkey scantuary. It certainly wasn't for skill demonastrated by either of them



And this was half an hour later



I think there's a definate tough guy look going on though! :pac:

Appologies for high-jacking OP!

Zulu

username123 wrote: »

What about a Lurcher - its a greyhound mix, all sizes, couch potatoes, great with kids, suitable for apartment living, not barkers.

Thanks for this - great suggestion. Do you know any good resource for finding out more?


..just found this: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/lurcher.htm "The Lurcher is usually not recommended for city life, as they are a very high-energy dog."