Life in Ireland during the recession...

Noffles

SamSamSammy wrote: »

isn't it gas how this thread gets so little, yet a thread on leaving Ireland has nearly 200 posters.

Moan, moan, moan. Look on the bright side of life ffs!

Bright side of life... while I get fleeced left right and centre for working hard every day.... Fair enough I'm fit and well and live in a nice house... but if I can't enjoy it as I'm busy trying to keep my head above water where is the bright side..?

Green tinted glasses are for holidays only.

SamSamSammy

is it an ego thing that you think you deserve more money? wages are massive in Ireland, during the recession you have to accept to work harder for less money.

You can be lazy, negative and moan.... but life goes on just the same when you're happy as when you're sad so why not just be happy?

you have a job and a house, you're doing very well.

Flygimp

SamSamSammy wrote: »

is it an ego thing that you think you deserve more money? wages are massive in Ireland, during the recession you have to accept to work harder for less money.

You can be lazy, negative and moan.... but life goes on just the same when you're happy as when you're sad so why not just be happy?

you have a job and a house, you're doing very well.

Sammy's obviously a troll... but a happy happy one.

topper75

Acapella wrote: »

Take a trip to Limerick....Angelas Ashes has nothing on the Limerick City of 2010.

Limerick is still there friend! It just moved premises to an indoor location in Dooradoyle.

I'd agree with the OP. I had similar thoughts when I first visited the North in the early 90s. Such was the grip of the media's dark projection of the place on my mind, I was shocked to see men delivering in lorries, kids on their way to school, and women going around with shopping bags etc. Normality is the deep still water you don't see beneath the waves of boom, bust, or other media frenzy material. Time to get on with it.

Noffles

SamSamSammy wrote: »

is it an ego thing that you think you deserve more money? wages are massive in Ireland, during the recession you have to accept to work harder for less money.

You can be lazy, negative and moan.... but life goes on just the same when you're happy as when you're sad so why not just be happy?

you have a job and a house, you're doing very well.

Saying "life goes on" is a bollox argument... of course it does, that won't change unless you die and being happy or sad is a state of mind. Getting taken to the cleaners in as many ways as the **** heads who run this hole... now that's just ****e!

And I'm not lazy..

Flygimp

But as you know Noffles, Ireland is a culture of the down trodden, timid and subserviant. We skulk in the dark corners of pubs and behind the guise of public forums, anonymous and safe and procrastinate about adversity and hard times. We apologise for our own existence as has always been the way.

Mister men

SamSamSammy wrote: »

grafton street was buzzing today absolutely packed and the sun shining.. beautiful.

Yes there are bad bits, but theres no need to be all depressed about the future, life it what you make it.

Having a negative attitude will get you no where in life imo.

Tourists on Grafton street i presume. I don't know what planet your living on but it ain't the same planet as myself or most people i know. The country is falling apart.

SamSamSammy

ah ffs, go out and open your eyes, you will see the country is NOT falling apart. Go into dublin for a walk, you'll see plenty of happy faces.

bigbadbear

I'm not going back to ireland until everyone stops talking about the recession. Seriously. STOP MOANING!!!

Mister men

SamSamSammy wrote: »

ah ffs, go out and open your eyes, you will see the country is NOT falling apart. Go into dublin for a walk, you'll see plenty of happy faces.

I live and work in Dublin the country is falling apart. A few new buildings and a bridge down by the river does'nt mean squat to someone waiting 19 hours in emergency for someone to see them. Nor does it mean dick to my friend who got knocked down by a drunk driver 4 years ago and lives in a wheelchair pissing in a bag and has had his much needed home help cut to 5 hours a WEEK from 25 hours a week two years ago.

But hey once everyone down on Grafton street is smiling what.

Flygimp

SamSamSammy wrote: »

ah ffs, go out and open your eyes, you will see the country is NOT falling apart. Go into dublin for a walk, you'll see plenty of happy faces.

Is there a communal bong on every Dublin street corner by any chance?

hybridmouse

I agree Sammy, we need more positivity!

People are having a tough time getting by but there's no point compounding that by sitting under our little black clouds and saying we're doomed.

I'm not denying that the whole country is finding things very difficult at the moment but compared with many other parts of the world, most of us here have never experienced true poverty.

You only live once and all that. Might as well be poor and cheerful

fakearms123

readyletsgo wrote: »

JE5US CHR!ST! You are all a big bunch of begrudgers on here!

Everyones in the **** at the end of the day, get over it and sort your own gaff out!


Christ on a stick!

Put this in Stupid f***ing words and phrases thread.

Flygimp

hybridmouse wrote: »

most of us here have never experienced true poverty.

You only live once and all that. Might as well be poor and cheerful

People in Ireland have never experienced true democracy or transparency of government either... Most cheerful people in Ireland now live in County Bondi.

hybridmouse

Flygimp wrote: »

People in Ireland have never experienced true democracy or transparency of government either

Well I won't argue with you there! My attitude is that we're here in the situation, it's ****e but we have to get on with it. I can't get on with it every day in a state of depression though...

Logical Fallacy

SamSamSammy wrote: »

grafton street was buzzing today absolutely packed and the sun shining.. beautiful.

Yes there are bad bits, but theres no need to be all depressed about the future, life it what you make it.

Having a negative attitude will get you no where in life imo.

Alternatively, and maybe i am just reaching here, not EVERYONE has been affected by the recession to the same degree?

Flygimp

hybridmouse wrote: »

Well I won't argue with you there! My attitude is that we're here in the situation, it's ****e but we have to get on with it. I can't get on with it every day in a state of depression though...

HM I totally agree - the real question is how do you get on with it...
and what legacy do you leave to your children and grandkids when this Government has condemned them to a life of exorbitant debt before they are even born. All due to the corruption and greed of a few that in any other western country would be displaced and taken down in a tidal wave of public anger and wrath... sorry I forgot I live in Ireland, smile back on...

Logical Fallacy

Flygimp wrote: »

HM I totally agree - the real question is how do you get on with it...
and what legacy do you leave to your children and grandkids when this Government has condemned them to a life of exorbitant debt before they are even born. All due to the corruption and greed of a few that in any other western country would be displaced and taken down in a tidal wave of public anger and wrath... sorry I forgot I live in Ireland, smile back on...

Okay, so where in the World did this tidal wave of public anger and wrath occur? Where has the government been overthrown?

Nowhere?

I thought so.

Also , if people are so worried about their kids being born into white collar debt slavery, don't have any.

I'm sure the human race shall continue in spite of it.

Flygimp

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Okay, so where in the World did this tidal wave of public anger and wrath occur? Where has the government been overthrown?

Nowhere?

I thought so.

Also , if people are so worried about their kids being born into white collar debt slavery, don't have any.

I'm sure the human race shall continue in spite of it.

Do you have children Mr Fancy? From your comments you don't deserve them if you do...

Hang on Greece and particularly Iceland hit the streets in numbers and in Iceland case their government resigned...?

The human race continues on in all corners - just in some countries they tend to stand up for the greater good.

SamSamSammy

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Alternatively, and maybe i am just reaching here, not EVERYONE has been affected by the recession to the same degree?

yes, CORRECT, i read a stat saying theres 900,000+ mortgages in the country and only 36,000 (give or take a hundreds) and in arrears, not the sort of stat that says everyone is in trouble and the country is broke.

As always, the bad stuff gets highlighted and everyone ignores the good stuff.

the fact is, theres no public outcry because MOST (not all) are happy.

SamSamSammy

and the ones who are unhappy, are the ones making the most noise, while others just get on with life and get by.

do you want to spend you whole life moaning?

optogirl

CamperMan wrote: »

chances are that the people you saw were either

1: public sector workers
2: welfare scroungers
3: pensioners

one thing in common... guaranteed income each and every week and well paid at that :mad:

So many people in AH with this disgusting attitude to people on the dole - if everyone is on the make, how come unemployment was down to 4% when there were jobs?

Duggy747

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Also , if people are so worried about their kids being born into white collar debt slavery, don't have any.

I'm sure the human race shall continue in spite of it.

Not if your kid is supposed to be John Connor :eek:

Well, though I'm 25 I at least count myself lucky I don't have any forms of payments in terms of kids, mortages, loans, etc.

My only challenge is building up my qualifications so I can secure a paying job which, in fairness, has been going quite well so far this past year. FÀS are doing free IT courses where I've 3 Comptia certificates under my belt now and I have a WPP1 job as an IT Techie for the next 9 months.

If anything, I got fùck all to be miserable about :pac:

optogirl

SamSamSammy wrote: »

and the ones who are unhappy, are the ones making the most noise, while others just get on with life and get by.

do you want to spend you whole life moaning?

but shouldn't we stand up and speak out against bailouts and bad banking/government practices? It's up to us to form a state we can be proud of

Joeyjoejoe83

Yeah lets get out and enjoy ourselves bla bla bla, clearly coming from people with zero dependents or mortgages. What you have all failed to realise is that most of these doom and gloom people you are mocking so casually are doing what we all didn't do in the good times, think of the future.......we are all getting destroyed in the next budget, taxed on everything we do and further loss of earnings:loss of jobs etc etc, the cycle is going to begin again, remember that and make your non doom and gloom comments then.

Logical Fallacy

Flygimp wrote: »

Do you have children Mr Fancy? From your comments you don't deserve them if you do...

You are the one who said that "our" kids and grandkids are being born into a bleak future of debt at the hands of an uncaring government. Yet you still plan on bringing kids into this dystopian future that you see?

Your inability to apply this savage future to your own self and do whats right is very amusing i must say. I would think, in fact, that such an uncaring act of selfishness would imply that you and people who share your opinion don't deserve kids.

Alternatively, you're talking nonsense you don't even believe.

Flygimp

SamSamSammy wrote: »

and the ones who are unhappy, are the ones making the most noise, while others just get on with life and get by.

do you want to spend you whole life moaning?

60,000 house holds are in arrears with mortgages to varying degrees.
Of those mortgage holders who are on the brink what do you think house and water taxes are going to do to them, apart from push them over the edge.

Most who are disillusioned with things have left with a predicted exodus of a total of 260,000 people in the near future. Thousands are in arrears with gas bill payments. The average debt per head in this country is 40,000 euro per year. The EU is putting pressure to raise Corporate taxes which means Ireland's only profitable companies which are overseas owned will look towards Poland and other countries with a cheaper working force and Corporate taxes. Of course the fundamental of economic basics for any country is 'your only as strong as your exports'... Ireland's agriculture is third world (in comparison to countries like NZ), the fisheries are sold off, tourism has slumped, we have no forestry or natural resources or large industrial infrastructure etc... we've got a few houses though!

Oh by the way I smile quite regularly as this is not my country of origin.
I also smile when bad debtors of 2 years up the back end of the Connemaras pay up after threatening to crush fingers in doors, as it puts bread in my little boy's mouth that they steel from him by not paying for services rendered. See positive action in the face of adversity brings a smile!

hybridmouse

Joeyjoejoe83 wrote: »

Yeah lets get out and enjoy ourselves bla bla bla, clearly coming from people with zero dependents or mortgages. What you have all failed to realise is that most of these doom and gloom people you are mocking so casually are doing what we all didn't do in the good times, think of the future.......

I have a mortgage and bills to pay and food to put on the table and I'm on a modest wage. I was very careful and responsible during the good times, I didn't run up personal debt or go wild with credit cards. Of course, I worry about what the next four budgets will bring and if I will continue to be in a position to meet my payments if (God forbid) I were to lose my job.

However, I still believe that we should attempt to go about our daily routines and try to be positive and try to work our way out of our current situation. The news is full of doom and gloom and suicide is on the increase, at least partly as a result of this recession.

People need to feel that there is some hope. This constant negative commentary about how Ireland is 'falling apart' and never-ending speculation about how bad it's going to get is doing nobody's mental health any good.

SamSamSammy

hybridmouse wrote: »

I have a mortgage and bills to pay and food to put on the table and I'm on a modest wage. I was very careful and responsible during the good times, I didn't run up personal debt or go wild with credit cards. Of course, I worry about what the next four budgets will bring and if I will continue to be in a position to meet my payments if (God forbid) I were to lose my job.

However, I still believe that we should attempt to go about our daily routines and try to be positive and try to work our way out of our current situation. The news is full of doom and gloom and suicide is on the increase, at least partly as a result of this recession.

People need to feel that there is some hope. This constant negative commentary about how Ireland is 'falling apart' and never-ending speculation about how bad it's going to get is doing nobody's mental health any good.

HERE HERE.

Noffles

SamSamSammy wrote: »

HERE HERE.

You obviously want to hear good things...

hybridmouse

Noffles wrote: »

You obviously want to hear good things...

We all want NEED to hear good things, that's my point

fat__tony

SamSamSammy wrote: »

Ireland shouldnt need the IMF, may have to have a few taxes and indeed we'll all lose out, but sure this is life, you take the rough with the smooth, you move on, you get by..

Thats a rather daft comment. I take it you still have a comfortable job and have been relatively unaffected by the reccession then?

Noffles

hybridmouse wrote: »

We all want NEED to hear good things, that's my point

"Needing to hear" good things is trying to get away from reality then... if there's no good things to hear what are going to do... make some up?

frank reynolds

ha! good thread! i noticed this a long time ago when the press and media were going mental trying to enforce the way we think about "our situation" in this "economic climate" blah blah blah.

who gives a fvck... in my book, anyone who tries to pander misery onto people, is sick. i've been laughing for months now (i DONT get paid well at all by any account) and i think it's really thick of people to fall for the media's bullsh!t.

everyone, just snap out of it. if you stop acting miserable, you wont be miserable.

NOBODY feels sorry for you (whatever your story of being hard done by is)
so stop with the moaning PLEASE!!!!! get on with it, and if that doesnt work out, just get p!ssed!

exhude your happiness!

Flygimp

hybridmouse wrote: »

I have a mortgage and bills to pay and food to put on the table and I'm on a modest wage. I was very careful and responsible during the good times, I didn't run up personal debt or go wild with credit cards. Of course, I worry about what the next four budgets will bring and if I will continue to be in a position to meet my payments if (God forbid) I were to lose my job.

However, I still believe that we should attempt to go about our daily routines and try to be positive and try to work our way out of our current situation. The news is full of doom and gloom and suicide is on the increase, at least partly as a result of this recession.

People need to feel that there is some hope. This constant negative commentary about how Ireland is 'falling apart' and never-ending speculation about how bad it's going to get is doing nobody's mental health any good.

What you say is very true on all accounts. People need hope. But the gravity of Ireland's situation is still met with apathy and some will still live in denial even if hit with a jack hammer. Ireland's state of affiars represents the worst recession in Europe since WW2. Some times in life faced with adversity of historical proportions hope is only achieved through selfless action on a large scale to promote positive change - otherwise history simply repeats itself.

Cause and effect... what you say about suicide rates lies at the feet of those in power... it is indeed very sad the waste of life.

frank reynolds

Noffles wrote: »

"Needing to hear" good things is trying to get away from reality then... if there's no good things to hear what are going to do... make some up?

and no... there's other good things apart from fvcking "money".

hybridmouse

Noffles wrote: »

"Needing to hear" good things is trying to get away from reality then... if there's no good things to hear what are going to do... make some up?

Not at all!! My point is that the emphasis at the moment in the media and even I find in general conversation is on the negative.

Just because we're in an economic downturn doesn't mean that there are no more 'good things' to hear, or good news stories to tell.

It's a fact that this barrage of negative news stories has a direct impact on how we spend (or in this case do not spend) our money, which has a further impact on our economy.

I just think we need to acknowledge our situation, take steps to keep ourselves and our families afloat and get on with it instead of wallowing in misery.

Actually, I like Frank's approach there, Hear Hear Frank!

Flygimp

frank reynolds wrote: »

(i DONT get paid well at all by any account) and i think it's really thick of people to fall for the media's bullsh!t.

Is this Irish media... or global media representing the rest the western world - half of who are baying for Ireland's blood, the other half talking about Ireland as the laughing stock and prize joke of the Global economy... are they all thick as well?

Rabble Rabble

The thing about the Boom was that people were angry during the boom, too. Generally at the cost of property. Legitimately, so, but nevertheless.


Here is why I would leave England/London for Dublin.

http://www.oobject.com/depressing-million-dollar-london-property/workers-cottage-near-soccer-stadium/7822/

That house costs a million. Put some urchins outside it, and photograph it in black and white and you could have a picture of 1900's poverty. I understand that cities grow, and places become gentrified, but if I had a million I would spend it in Ireland. Trust me.

Is this Irish media... or global media representing the rest the western world - half of who are baying for Ireland's blood, the other half talking about Ireland as the laughing stock and prize joke of the Global economy... are they all thick as well?

A lot of media about Ireland is favourable. The exceptions are leftwing media who oppose austerity cuts - like the Guardian in London. Right wing media does not see ireland like Greece, because Ireland tried to fix things.

Worrying about the rest of the world will get you nowhere. Get on and fix it. All that Ireland has to do is to remove the bank guarantee and things will be back to normal in a few years. Otherwise the deficit is the same as the UK, where house prices have yet to crash. Which they will.

pixelburp

With the "we're all doooooomed" crowd, all I'm hearing is a lot of ineffectual flapping about on the internet. I never hear any constructive ideas at how to hit back and voice dissent - whether it's marches, writing letters to local representatives, or whatever. Which just leads to the suspicion that there are a lot of people out there who are perversely "enjoying" the misery.

And sure if you're not revelling in the gloom, then clearly you must be some kind of maniac sponger who doesn't have a mortgage, debt or whatnot.

Frankly, I'm both sides of the coin. I do recognise how utterly shackled we are to debt for the next couple of decades, but by god I'm not going to let it get me down and frigging wallow about it. There's nothing worse than feeling sorry for ones self - learned that lesson from plenty of break-ups in my time - so I'm just getting on with it the best I can. self-pity's not attractive in anyone. So yeah, if for me that means maintaining an optimistic outlook then fine. Jesus otherwise I might as well keel over right now if it's all really that bad. So on the horizon, I'm looking forward to moving into the house I'm buying, call it insanity if you will but hey...

Rabble Rabble

Also, Ireland's GDP is about where it was in 2005, or maybe 2004. The news then was boom, boom, boom. Unemployment has increased, and negative equity has increased.

If you have a job, and are renting - you are better off.

toxicity234

SamSamSammy wrote: »

Just back from town...

Everyone looks happy.
Everyone getting on with daily life.
Everyone smiling, having the craic.
Shopping, people singing.

Then you read the papers or watch the news and read/hear the whole country is "suffering" and "depressed." Read boards and its the end of the world!

Life goes on, and the country isnt as bad as you think it is.

I love Ireland.

Once again, The media make it as bad as possable to sell more. Its a business and there nothing like bad news to make money for them. its not there to give us the news. they there to make money.

and as for boards where do you think these guys and girls get there news.

as for the country itself, its in a bad but it could be a lot worse.

Flygimp

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

Also, Ireland's GDP is about where it was in 2005, or maybe 2004. The news then was boom, boom, boom. Unemployment has increased, and negative equity has increased.

If you have a job, and are renting - you are better off.

So how do address Irelands false economy? The fact Irelands export power is sadly lacking for the future to compete within the global market and maybe forced to raise it's international corporate tax and become less inviting for overseas investment? How do you address the fact that privately owned Irish businesses are pretty much dead?

MingulayJohnny

I'm all for positive mental attitude , making the best of a bad situation and all that and I do think that some people enjoy wallowing in misery. Somehow I don't think a CF sufferer getting inadequate treatment because of our disastrous health system will respond too well to being told to cheer up and have an auld laugh at it all!!.

I don't think that looking at people who appear to be happy out and about in Dublin is a good indicator of the state of the population in general. It's an admirable quality to be able to remain strong in the face of the financial trouble and the uncertainty about the future that many people are going through in this country at the moment. Not having the same money you had to buy expensive gadgets , cars , holidays etc is not the same as going into debt with bills and the prospect of losing your home.

It's the frustration that gets to people I think , even if you become unemployed and you have some great ideas and you're a hard grafter getting started again is like walking through quicksand in this country.

I'm more f**ked up and p***ed off than miserable , I've been on a few of the marches and while there's comfort in the solidarity I wonder if it makes a shred of difference to the people who actually run the country?. We need to demand our fair share of the cake and if we can't fully weed out the corrupt elite , at least balance them out with decent folk who will protect us from their reckless actions.

Rabble Rabble

Flygimp wrote: »

So how do address Irelands false economy? The fact Irelands export power is sadly lacking for the future to compete within the global market and maybe forced to raise it's international corporate tax and become less inviting for overseas investment? How do you address the fact that privately owned Irish businesses are pretty much dead?

All privately owned Irish businesses are dead? That, I suspect, is the media ramping up the hysteria..

In particular the Independent is, in true populist fashion, ramping up every single story it can. The corporate tax increase can be avoided by not going to the ECB, and the export sector does not seem that troubled to me.


It is everything else that is causing the bust, not exports. Exports are up

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/06/29/the-global-recession-is-just-a-coincidence-for-ireland/

pixelburp

MingulayJohnny wrote: »

I don't think that looking at people who appear to be happy out and about in Dublin is a good indicator of the state of the population in general. It's an admirable quality to be able to remain strong in the face of the financial trouble

Maybe the OP wasn't so much trying to say "look at the happy people - what recession?" but instead trying to get across the idea that life invariably goes on for better or worse. People are out of work and struggling to make payments for this, that and the other thing, but you still have to make the most of it, enjoy life as best you can. People are still going to cinemas, drinking in cafés and meeting each other. It's all a bit sh*t at the moment, but self-pity's not going to change things, might as well make the best of it. That's not capitulating to the banks or politicians, that's just being human.

Listening to some people, you'd think we're just one week away from the remaining vestiges of Irish society clawing & scrabbling over the last unopened can of dog food, surrounded by the burning remains of Dublin.

Flygimp

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

All privately owned Irish businesses are dead? That, I suspect, is the media ramping up the hysteria..

In particular the Independent is, in true populist fashion, ramping up every single story it can. The corporate tax increase can be avoided by not going to the ECB, and the export sector does not seem that troubled to me.


It is everything else that is causing the bust, not exports. Exports are up

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/06/29/the-global-recession-is-just-a-coincidence-for-ireland/

Being a service provider here in the west all my clients are private Irish owned - out of the twenty two on my books ten are in liquidation - these enterprises were not run by cowboys either... On a bright note certain pharmaceutical companies are still thriving but then they are all owned by sister companies in the states.

Take a look at whats being exported... and again is it Irish owned. If they can keep the corporate tax rate down then I agree with you there is hope at least.

thebigbiffo

optogirl wrote: »

So many people in AH with this disgusting attitude to people on the dole - if everyone is on the make, how come unemployment was down to 4% when there were jobs?

4% of 13% = 31% of people on the dole now never bothered to work when there was 'full' employment. thats almost a third of the current dole payment goes to 'people on the make' then imo...not logical?

MingulayJohnny

pixelburp wrote: »

Maybe the OP wasn't so much trying to say "look at the happy people - what recession?" but instead trying to get across the idea that life invariably goes on for better or worse. People are out of work and struggling to make payments for this, that and the other thing, but you still have to make the most of it, enjoy life as best you can. People are still going to cinemas, drinking in cafés and meeting each other. It's all a bit sh*t at the moment, but self-pity's not going to change things, might as well make the best of it. That's not capitulating to the banks or politicians, that's just being human.

Listening to some people, you'd think we're just one week away from the remaining vestiges of Irish society clawing & scrabbling over the last unopened can of dog food, surrounded by the burning remains of Dublin.

Ok so we're not at the stage of queuing for food or major civil unrest. I'm in full time employment , albeit not on great wages but I'm fortunate in that I'm occupied and able to support myself. I've got relatives who have become unemployed and I can see that it is taking it's toll mentally ( being treated with undeserved contempt in the local SW office doesn't help either). It's trying to decide on whether to emigrate or if they do stay here will a new government come good on the promises of jobs?. Life has to go on but it's gut wrenching not seeing the change that's needed taking place. It's not happening fast enough for me anyway.

The Waltzing Consumer

thebigbiffo wrote: »

4% of 13% = 31% of people on the dole now never bothered to work when there was 'full' employment. thats almost a third of the current dole payment goes to 'people on the make' then imo...not logical?

Is it me or does the maths not make sense?

4% of around 4 million people during boom times unemployed = 40000
13% of around 4 million people now unemployed = 520,000

so if 31% of people on dole never bothered in boom times, that figure is around 156,000 people, bit of a jump from the original 40000

I know figures would not exactly be 4 million people but the maths is essentially the same.