Which was the greater Unbeaten Achievement - United 98/99 V Arsenal 03/04

Pro. F

p_larkin99 wrote: »

I just cannot see how people can think this. A good few of Uniteds game were in knockout football, how is that not huge pressure? Expectations were not on United to win the treble but then neither were they on Arsenal to do it. What happened was people started talking about the unbeaten season in the same way people started talking about the possibility of the treble.

Yeah but that's not when they were concerning themselves with an unbeaten run. I'm saying Arsenal were actually conscious of the unbeaten run, it being for the course of the season. When United were coming to the end of their run there was hardly any attention on it because it was just a statistic. I know that technically Arsenal's unbeaten run went on into the next season but what I'm talking about is their achievement in the 03/04 season particularly. As the season wore on it became something for them to aim for and get nervous about. United weren't under that type of scrutiny in the September and October of the next season while their run was going on.

For me going unbeaten in a league season to win the league is special and more difficult than putting together a good run over the course of two seasons. Winning the treble is even more difficult but the OP wasn't asking about that.

Paul Tergat

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah but that's not when they were concerning themselves with an unbeaten run. I'm saying Arsenal were actually conscious of the unbeaten run, it being for the course of the season. When United were coming to the end of their run there was hardly any attention on it because it was just a statistic. I know that technically Arsenal's unbeaten run went on into the next season but what I'm talking about is their achievement in the 03/04 season particularly. As the season wore on it became something for them to aim for and get nervous about. United weren't under that type of scrutiny in the September and October of the next season while their run was going on.

For me going unbeaten in a league season to win the league is special and more difficult than putting together a good run over the course of two seasons. Winning the treble is even more difficult but the OP wasn't asking about that.

No the players instead knew that a treble was on and history was potentially being made. Im not knocking Arsenals achievements, far from it, its a stunning achievement its just you cant talk about their pressure and ignore United's. Different type of pressure but I really dont agree that Arsenal were under more pressure. Saying the course of 2 seasons is exagerating as you said yourself we're looking at Oct/Sept when ours ended

Its unbelievably close but during their run Arsenal were losing games, sure cup games, but that still has to be considered. United were fighting on multiple fronts, playing knockout football and chasing trophies

Both are amazing though


edit: i dunno, maybe i just cant isolate the trophies that were being won

Pro. F

p_larkin99 wrote: »

No the players instead knew that a treble was on and history was potentially being made. Im not knocking Arsenals achievements, far from it, its a stunning achievement its just you cant talk about their pressure and ignore United's. Different type of pressure but I really dont agree that Arsenal were under more pressure. Saying the course of 2 seasons is exagerating as you said yourself we're looking at Oct/Sept when ours ended

Its unbelievably close but during their run Arsenal were losing games, sure cup games, but that still has to be considered. United were fighting on multiple fronts, playing knockout football and chasing trophies

Both are amazing though


edit: i dunno, maybe i just cant isolate the trophies that were being won

The bit that happened during the next season for United lasted for two months with 12 games. That's a fair number of games where they were just keeping their great form going as opposed to trying to achieve something in particular.

That's the way I see it anyway but it is a very close call to say which run is more impressive so I can totally see where you're coming from.

recylingbin

Poxing a champions league and an FA cup isn't in the same ball park as going an entire league season unbeaten imo.

SantryRed

recylingbin wrote: »

Poxing a champions league and an FA cup isn't in the same ball park as going an entire league season unbeaten imo.

Does Pires' dive against Pompey at home in Highbury which robbed them of 3 points count as poxing too? We can both do this.

recylingbin

SantryRed wrote: »

Does Pires' dive against Pompey at home in Highbury which robbed them of 3 points count as poxing too? We can both do this.

No, it doesn't.
Glad to clear that up for you.

SantryRed

recylingbin wrote: »

No, it doesn't.
Glad to clear that up for you.

How though? If you are claiming United got lucky in the cups that's bullsh1t. If it happened once or twice you'd say fair enough. But they constantly pulled amazing stuff out of the bag. Last min goals against Pool, Munich and Juve and then the amazing comeback away to Juve too and the late peno save against Arsenal.

If United got lucky with that to go unbeaten then Arsenal got very lucky that Pires got that dive given as a peno.

IvySlayer

Who messed up the votes ffs.

Was a good thread only to be pissed on by someone.

DOC09UNAM

IvySlayer wrote: »

Who messed up the votes ffs.

Was a good thread only to be pissed on by someone.

I thought so too, until I noticed you can still tell the amount of votes for each.

Whoever messed it up only added 10 million to each, annoying because we can't see the %, but I guess someone thought they were funny :rolleyes:

L'prof

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

I thought so too, until I noticed you can still tell the amount of votes for each.

Whoever messed it up only added 10 million to each, annoying because we can't see the %, but I guess someone thought they were funny :rolleyes:

55.02% - 44.98%

#15

recylingbin wrote: »

Poxing a champions league and an FA cup isn't in the same ball park as going an entire league season unbeaten imo.

Lol

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Paul Tergat

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Oh you were being serious? Ha

Its pretty obvious what the votes are tbh. If you cant tell that well then you have massive problems.

Iago

“In all intellectual debates, both sides tend to be correct in what they affirm, and wrong in what they deny"

Kess73

Has anyone given a shout to Preston NE's double winning season yet?


Undefeated in both league and FA cup that season, with no goals let in for the cup run.:D

DOC09UNAM

Kess73 wrote: »

Has anyone given a shout to Preston NE's double winning season yet?


Undefeated in both league and FA cup that season, with no goals let in for the cup run.:D

Yep.

Numerous times.

Kess73

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Yep.

Numerous times.

I was too lazy to read through the whole thread as I figured it would be full of anti Utd/Arsenal vs Utd/Arsenal:)

DOC09UNAM

Kess73 wrote: »

I was too lazy to read through the whole thread as I figured it would be full of anti Utd/Arsenal vs Utd/Arsenal:)

It's mainly Utd vs arsenal/everyone else

Warper

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

It's mainly Utd vs arsenal/everyone else

And as per usual Utd think they are better than Arsenal/everyone else

DOC09UNAM

Warper wrote: »

And as per usual Utd think they are better than Arsenal/everyone else

I don't recall seeing that said anywhere?

I recall people saying Uniteds achievement was a better one, I don't recall saying United are better than everyone else.

Even though it's true.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

The Premier League was ranked behind La Liga and Serie A in 03/04
It had an even lower coefficient in 98/99 so it made their European achievement even more remarkable.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

everdead.ie

Kess73 wrote: »

Has anyone given a shout to Preston NE's double winning season yet?


Undefeated in both league and FA cup that season, with no goals let in for the cup run.:D

PNE is probably the greater record given just how long the record stood for the question is when will be the next unbeaten season will it take another 100 years?

Paul Tergat

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Okie doke. Just thought it was over sensitive. Meh, we cool!

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Sean Bateman

United finished with 91 points for the 1999/2000 season. Arsenal finished with 90 points for the season that they went unbeaten. United's 91 points is the greater achievement. The "Invincibles" nonsense is pro-London Sky nonsense. A team could draw all its 38 games, finish the season with 38 points and then be relegated. They'd be "Invincibles" too. Sky don't give United enough credit for absolutely dominating the Premiership since its inception because of the pathetic London bias of the media. They're obsessed with their mates over at Stamford Bridge and Highbury and also with nothing teams like Spurs and West Ham. The epicentre of English football is Old Trafford. Anfield is next and only then do Arsenal come into the picture.

Dempsey

My vote went to United's achievement. Hectic match schedule, fatigue, injuries, suspensions & world class opposition couldnt stop them.

greendom

Sean Bateman wrote: »

United finished with 91 points for the 1999/2000 season. Arsenal finished with 90 points for the season that they went unbeaten. United's 91 points is the greater achievement. The "Invincibles" nonsense is pro-London Sky nonsense. A team could draw all its 38 games, finish the season with 38 points and then be relegated. They'd be "Invincibles" too. Sky don't give United enough credit for absolutely dominating the Premiership since its inception because of the pathetic London bias of the media. They're obsessed with their mates over at Stamford Bridge and Highbury and also with nothing teams like Spurs and West Ham. The epicentre of English football is Old Trafford. Anfield is next and only then do Arsenal come into the picture.

What a load of old nonsense. Why then do Arsenal get so much criticism for "flippy - flappy" football - they don't like it up em etc. Why does Wenger get such a bad press. And the epi-centre of Englsh football ? I haven't heard of this concept before. What does it mean exactly, and why does it matter?

#15

greendom wrote: »

Why does Wenger get such a bad press?

Eh, he doesn't. 5 years without a trophy, and he's still lauded by the media (stand up Patrick Barclay).

He's a top manager, but he doesn't really get bad press.

greendom

#15 wrote: »

Eh, he doesn't. 5 years without a trophy, and he's still lauded by the media (stand up Patrick Barclay).

He's a top manager, but he doesn't really get bad press.

He does - he receives plenty i.e. not having enough English players- team too agressive (back in the Vieria days), team too easily beaten up (today), never criticizes his own players or sees their foul play- he receives way more than his fair share

kryogen

Warper wrote: »

And as per usual Utd think they are better than Arsenal/everyone else

We are bigger then Jesus

flahavaj

Warper wrote: »

And as per usual Utd think they are better than Arsenal/everyone else

They are a bigger club than Arsenal.

Deeper Blue

Arsenal's is the better unbeaten achievment.

United's treble is a better achievment in terms of trophies

kryogen

SuperEagle wrote: »

Arsenal's is the better unbeaten achievment.

United's treble is better in terms of trophies (obviously)

how long is a piece of string though?

in fairness, winning the 3 major competitions in one season is imo a better achievement then going unbeaten in 38 league games (drawing 12) but failing in all other competions

KeithAFC

flahavaj wrote: »

They are a bigger club than Arsenal.

Real Madrid, FC Barcelona, AC Milan are all bigger than Man Utd.

Sean Bateman

KeithAFC wrote: »

Real Madrid, FC Barcelona, AC Milan are all bigger than Man Utd.

Nonsense.

Paul Merson said it best this afternoon on Soccer Saturday: "Man United are the biggest club in the world...kids in Africa, Asia and Australia dream of playing for one club - Man United."

Manchester United are the biggest club in the world closely followed by Real Madrid.

KeithAFC

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Nonsense.

Paul Merson said it best this afternoon on Soccer Saturday: "Man United are the biggest club in the world...kids in Africa, Asia and Australia dream of playing for one club - Man United."

Manchester United are the biggest club in the world closely followed by Real Madrid.

No its not.

It seems a lot of Man Utd fans have this hitler like mentality that they are the biggest club in the world, they rule the world blah blah blah.

There is so many great clubs around. Real Madrid are without a doubt bigger than Man Utd. They have fans all over the globe and anyone would want to play for them.

AC Milan is another club, fans all over the world.

I don't think Man Utd is the biggest club in the world. Not afraid to say it.

Paul Tergat

KeithAFC wrote: »

No its not.

It seems a lot of Man Utd fans have this hitler like mentality that they are the biggest club in the world, they rule the world blah blah blah.

There is so many great clubs around. Real Madrid are without a doubt bigger than Man Utd. They have fans all over the globe and anyone would want to play for them.

AC Milan is another club, fans all over the world.

I don't think Man Utd is the biggest club in the world. Not afraid to say it.

If theres one point where you could argue against United being the biggest you picked probably the worst one.

flahavaj

KeithAFC wrote: »

Real Madrid, FC Barcelona, AC Milan are all bigger than Man Utd.

I didn't mention any of those clubs in my post did I, nor does listing them alter the fact that United are far bigger than Arsenal.

KeithAFC

p_larkin99 wrote: »

If theres one point where you could argue against United being the biggest you picked probably the worst one.

It seems Utd fans use the argument of fan base. Well lets just ignore history overall for every other club and just mention Man utd and thats it.

Lets ignore Real Madrids amazing history, Barcelona. There is so many clubs who have great history. Saying there is people in Australia who would play for Man utd or want to play for them, the same can be said of Real Madrid. The same can be said for a lot of clubs.

Your mentioning of Arsenal does not hide the achivements of the invincibles, regardless of club size.

If we were to talk about size of club, Utd simply don't top it when you add in all the ingredients which would make a club the biggest in the world. Real Madrid have the fanbase, Real Madrid have the history, the players who played for Madrid, the trophies (9 European cups) and if you add it all up, they top the list.

kryogen

KeithAFC

Manchester United Football Club is the biggest and best club in the world

Just accept it and move on with life

gosplan

kryogen wrote: »

KeithAFC

Manchester United Football Club is the biggest and best club in the world

Just accept it and move on with life

Hmmm,

If you're going by turnover they're not.

If you're going by trophies, then even Liverpool are slightly ahead of United having won the top European trophy twice more.

So they're not the biggest and they're not the best or can you show otherwise.



Fret not though, in a few years they'll definitely be the biggest and best club in the Europa League.

TheDoc

Uniteds run for me

Winning the treble was some feat and least not forget some of the absolute all time classic matches that took place that year with United.

Arsenals feat was just as impressive but with not matching the competition victories, I'm with United on this one.

kryogen

Sorry gosplan

Manchester United, biggest and best club in the world

L'prof

Jesus Christ lads, who gives a fuck??? Seriously???

kryogen

its kinda my point

L'prof

There's a better way of putting that across though!

Dante

Even as a United fan, I think Arsenal's achievement is more impressive, based purely on run's alone and not silverware. To me, going a whole league season unbeaten is something special.

gosplan

kryogen wrote: »

Sorry gosplan

Manchester United, biggest and best club in the world

Ho ho,

fair enough. You're a good supporter.

Sean Bateman

DaaaaaaaaaaN wrote: »

Even as a United fan, I think Arsenal's achievement is more impressive, based purely on run's alone and not silverware. To me, going a whole league season unbeaten is something special.

Ridiculous.

A team could go all season unbeaten, draw every game and be relegated with 38 points.

United's treble win is the greater achievement by a country mile. I can't believe people are even debating the issue. It's not even a close run thing.