Laptop crashing during OS install

Seifer

I have a Dell Studio 1535. It started hardcore freezing after booting and occasionally throwing a blue screen.
I rang Dell and it passed their hardware diagnostic so the guy moved me onto their software department. It was only when I was transferred there that I was informed I would have to pay for the software support so I hung up.
So after checking if the system was stable on a Ubuntu live cd (it seemed to be), I went for a full Ubuntu install. It crashed during this. And crashes when I try to install it or Windows 7.

So anybody have any idea what is wrong? I'm thinking hard disk or cd-drive. I'm pretty convinced the pions at Dell won't fix anything unless it fails their diagnostic. I've run it multiple times but it always passes.

At least if I could be confident what is wrong I could google for an error code and give them that.

When I looked at the error log before losing my OS, this seemed to be the first error after a boot:

The DHCP Client service depends on the ancilliary function driver for winsock service which failed to start because of the following error:
A device attached to the system is not functioning

The blue screen contained: The system has encountered an uncorrectable hardware error

There was also an error relating to MS security essentials so I removed that. I also reinstalled the drivers for the network card and graphics card.

I also ran memtest and the ram seems fine.

Overheal

Is everything valuable been copied off of the hard drive? If not I'd suggest removing the drive and attaching it to another pc to get those files out, before performing a total reformat of the hdd.

You can also use the Ultimate Boot CD (Basically a linux disk) to run independent diagnostics on the hardware.

Seifer

Overheal wrote: »

Is everything valuable been copied off of the hard drive? If not I'd suggest removing the drive and attaching it to another pc to get those files out, before performing a total reformat of the hdd.

You can also use the Ultimate Boot CD (Basically a linux disk) to run independent diagnostics on the hardware.

The hard drive is trashed; has crashed multiple times during partioning at this point. But I had everything I needed copied before attempting Ubuntu install.

I was looking for some other diagnostics that will run from outside an OS; will give them a go, thanks.

Seifer

Anyone have any ideas on this?
I ran the hard drive diagnostics and it says it's fine. There are no CD drive diagnostics but it seems to run the tests off the CD fine.

Seifer

Called Dell again tonight and they wouldn't budge on it being a hardware problem and bumped me off to the pay for software section again.
I tried to talk something out of the software guy and it sounded like he would try running something to get the hard drive to play nice with the OS install. Anyone know what that would be?

Or alternatively a way to check my CD drive is ok?

Snowbat

Have you tried 'Check CD for defects' on the Ubuntu Live CD boot menu?

Seifer

Snowbat wrote: »

Have you tried 'Check CD for defects' on the Ubuntu Live CD boot menu?

Will that not just tell me if the data on the cd is ok?

I stuck Ubuntu on a usb and that crashed also and then the laptop stopped showing the usb in the boot menu, even after I reburnt it.

I mean it has to be a hardware problem right?
The Dell drones said if I pay for the software support and it turns out to be hardware I get the cost refunded.

Snowbat

Seifer wrote: »

Will that not just tell me if the data on the cd is ok?

A pass would tell you that the data is valid and that your drive was able to read the entire session without (unrecoverable) errors. If you can get this and the Memory test to pass three times in a row, you could reasonably rule out CD drive, CPU, RAM and power issues.

What kind of crashes are you seeing in Ubuntu? A complete system freeze or does caps lock still toggle the caps lock LED, or are the LEDs flashing on and off (kernel panic)?

old_aussie

Borrow a HDD and try to install the OS on it.

Make sure no USB devices are plugged in before installing the OS

Seifer

Snowbat wrote: »

A pass would tell you that the data is valid and that your drive was able to read the entire session without (unrecoverable) errors. If you can get this and the Memory test to pass three times in a row, you could reasonably rule out CD drive, CPU, RAM and power issues.

What kind of crashes are you seeing in Ubuntu? A complete system freeze or does caps lock still toggle the caps lock LED, or are the LEDs flashing on and off (kernel panic)?

I will try that when I get home.

It crashes during the install; complete freeze up. Usually saying it is partioning on the screen where you choose your time zone. On the windows installs it crashes during the copying files task.
No status lights except for the wifi.
I will try press caps lock next time but my guess is it won't toggle.

hearny

Have you tried setting BIOS to default settings.

Have a look through the BIOS settings and see your options can you turn off caching or shadowing.

I think you should try to rule out the hard drive (even though it passes the diagnostics) if you have access to another you can install it on.

Make a list or take photos of your bios options focusing on any hard drive or AHCI settings.

Seifer

hearny wrote: »

Have you tried setting BIOS to default settings.

Have a look through the BIOS settings and see your options can you turn off caching or shadowing.

I think you should try to rule out the hard drive (even though it passes the diagnostics) if you have access to another you can install it on.

Make a list or take photos of your bios options focusing on any hard drive or AHCI settings.

I have reset the BIOS settings (the only thing I ever edited was the boot order).

The hard drive is set to AHCI as opposed to ATA, as far as I can remember, don't have it in front of me.

I will look at the settings more closely when I get home and see what on can turn on/off.

Don't have a spare HD lying around unfortunately.

hearny

Change that to ATA and give it a try.

Cuddlesworth

What Dell Diagnostic did you run? The full diagnostics you can get off the site or the quick onboard ones? Because the Dell diagnostics off the site I have rarely ever seen fail to pick up on anything.

Seifer

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

What Dell Diagnostic did you run? The full diagnostics you can get off the site or the quick onboard ones? Because the Dell diagnostics off the site I have rarely ever seen fail to pick up on anything.

Both...
One by holding function key and booting. This is very quick except for the memory part.
The other from the Dell disks I got with the machine is GUI based and you can select by symptom, part, etc. I ran all the tests.
If it's not a hardware thing though, what can it be?

Cuddlesworth

When you say you backed up the system, did you back up the C:\Windows\ directory?

When you ran memtest, how long did you run it for? What tests, how many iterations? Over two OS's it has to be hardware.

I would say proc might be dieing, this should some up on Memtest though as errors.

Seifer

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

When you say you backed up the system, did you back up the C:\Windows\ directory?

When you ran memtest, how long did you run it for? What tests, how many iterations? Over two OS's it has to be hardware.

I would say proc might be dieing, this should some up on Memtest though as errors.

No, just took the stuff I wanted.

Only one pass of all tests.

I will try some of the stuff people have suggested today and leave it running memtest overnight if I have no luck.

Seifer

I swapped the hard-drive setting to ATA and it still crashed.

Crashed both off the cd and the usb.

I ran the Ubuntu cd check three times and all passed.

I ran memtest for three passes and no errors.

Snowbat

If the crashes happen as Ubuntu is starting, it may be at the point when Ubuntu probes for attached drives (you could turn on boot messages to see). Everything is pointing to a hard drive problem.

Seifer

Snowbat wrote: »

If the crashes happen as Ubuntu is starting, it may be at the point when Ubuntu probes for attached drives (you could turn on boot messages to see). Everything is pointing to a hard drive problem.

Just to clarify; I don't have Ubuntu installed, I am trying to install it (or Windows).
But if you meant when does the crash occur in the installation then I get to pick if I want to install alongside existing partitions or use the whole disk, I choose the whole disk. It will crash at some point once the loading bar comes up on the next screen, when it's doing the partitioning afaik.

Cuddlesworth

Seifer wrote: »

Just to clarify; I don't have Ubuntu installed, I am trying to install it (or Windows).
But if you meant when does the crash occur in the installation then I get to pick if I want to install alongside existing partitions or use the whole disk, I choose the whole disk. It will crash at some point once the loading bar comes up on the next screen, when it's doing the partitioning afaik.

Run memtest on tests five and eight for at least a hour.

Does it stop on the same place every time? Go to the dell site, drivers page for you laptops and download the Graphical Diagnostics tool. Install it to a Usb key, choose the custom system tests and test the hard-drive fully.

Seifer

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Run memtest on tests five and eight for at least a hour.

Does it stop on the same place every time? Go to the dell site, drivers page for you laptops and download the Graphical Diagnostics tool. Install it to a Usb key, choose the custom system tests and test the hard-drive fully.

I'll kick those tests off this evening.

I have run all the hard-drive tests in the GUI. From a cd and not a usb though.

It crashes in more or less the same place, yes.

digme

If you can still get into windows, set it not to reboot when you get a blue screen and copy the text to here so we might have an idea of what is wrong.

What's your partition layout like anyway?
I'm asking as sometimes when they're messed up you can get a blue screen when your trying to install an os.Happened to me a few times in the past with clients computers.

Cuddlesworth

Seifer wrote: »

I'll kick those tests off this evening.

I have run all the hard-drive tests in the GUI. From a cd and not a usb though.

It crashes in more or less the same place, yes.

As a quick test, change the Hard-drive mode in the Bios to ATA and try your linux install. That should rule out any driver issue. Other then that, consider trying to get a recovery Cd and doing a full complete disk format. I would assume that that is where the issue is.

Seifer

digme wrote: »

If you can still get into windows, set it not to reboot when you get a blue screen and copy the text to here so we might have an idea of what is wrong.

What's your partition layout like anyway?
I'm asking as sometimes when they're messed up you can get a blue screen when your trying to install an os.Happened to me a few times in the past with clients computers.

Can't get into windows anymore but the OP has some details on the bluescreen and what the error log was saying before I lost windows.

There are no partitions or there are the remnants of failed installs.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

As a quick test, change the Hard-drive mode in the Bios to ATA and try your linux install. That should rule out any driver issue. Other then that, consider trying to get a recovery Cd and doing a full complete disk format. I would assume that that is where the issue is.

Already tried the ATA change, didn't work.

I ran a disk wiping utility from the Ultimate boot disk but it didn't help.

digme

If you weren't too pushed about the windows install on your dell you could just delete the partitions and reformat it and then install ubuntu or whatever you like. I still think it's an issue with your partitions causing this so might be worth a shot?

Seifer

digme wrote: »

If you weren't too pushed about the windows install on your dell you could just delete the partitions and reformat it and then install ubuntu or whatever you like. I still think it's an issue with your partitions causing this so might be worth a shot?

There are no partitions on my hard drive.
During Ubuntu installs I tell it to reformat (same with the Windows) and I have run a disk wiping utility.

digme

Oh right. Could you boot up with the windows cd and format it in ntfs or something and then go back and try install ubuntu?

Worth a shot won't take ya long.

Seifer

digme wrote: »

Oh right. Could you boot up with the windows cd and format it in ntfs or something and then go back and try install ubuntu?

Worth a shot won't take ya long.

My goal is not to install Ubuntu. My goal is to get any OS on my laptop or figure out what's preventing me from doing that.
I cannot do as you suggested as the Window's installer crashes similarly to the Ubuntu one.

Skerries

quick question, is your fan working?

old_aussie

Hi,

Borrow a 2.5" HDD and swap-out the current HDD and try a fresh install.

Just a small 20 Gig will do for W7

Should only take 10 mins to swap HDD's

BostonB

old_aussie wrote: »

Hi,

Borrow a 2.5" HDD and swap-out the current HDD and try a fresh install.

Just a small 20 Gig will do for W7

Should only take 10 mins to swap HDD's

+1

I dunno whats the issue here. but the obvious solution is to try a different HD. Its the quickest way to eliminate it as an issue.

Get the HD make and model number, either from the BIOS or by opening it up, then go to the manufacturers website and see if they have a HD test tool. Seagate do a CD that you can download and use to boot and test your laptop. I had a laptop here that was giving errors, but once I wiped with Seagates tools, its worked fine since.

I wouldn't waste time on anything else. or on Dell support either. Its a bunch of helpdesk clones reading from a script, most of them know nothing about commuters.

Seifer

Skerries wrote: »

quick question, is your fan working?

Yep.

BostonB wrote: »

+1

I dunno whats the issue here. but the obvious solution is to try a different HD. Its the quickest way to eliminate it as an issue.

Get the HD make and model number, either from the BIOS or by opening it up, then go to the manufacturers website and see if they have a HD test tool. Seagate do a CD that you can download and use to boot and test your laptop. I had a laptop here that was giving errors, but once I wiped with Seagates tools, its worked fine since.

I wouldn't waste time on anything else. or on Dell support either. Its a bunch of helpdesk clones reading from a script, most of them know nothing about commuters.

The Western Digital diagnostics are on the Ultimate boot cd so I had run the checker but I will use the WD wiping utility and see if that helps.

Everyone here seems to be confirming my belief that it is hardware related so I think I should be able to get any Dell software support payment refunded when they slowly come to that conclusion too.

BostonB

I had trackpad button fall off a Dell laptop once and Dell support wanted me to install new drivers. Thats how stupid they are. You just have to answer all their questions on their script till you get to the point where they organize to take it back.

I say the wiping of the drive. Because I had a drive crash/fail, it wouldn't let me format/repartition the drive for a fresh install. So went to see if the drive was under the warranty and saw that Seagate warn that most drives returned as failed are not. So I used their low level wipe and that fixed it.

William Powell

Just a passing thought. Any chance the battery has had it on this laptop and you have to run it on the PSU. If so a dodgy PSU might be just short of enough power to run the CDROM when you do an install.

For HDD that I'm not sure about I always run a PartedMagic distro and use the SMART testing program.

Seifer

William Powell wrote: »

Just a passing thought. Any chance the battery has had it on this laptop and you have to run it on the PSU. If so a dodgy PSU might be just short of enough power to run the CDROM when you do an install.

For HDD that I'm not sure about I always run a PartedMagic distro and use the SMART testing program.

No, the battery is still in good condition. And for some head banging reason it won't crash running hours of diagnostics.

William Powell

Seifer wrote: »

No, the battery is still in good condition. And it for some head banging reason it won't crash running hours of diagnostics.

Like others have said I'd be thinking HDD all the way here. Even if it wasn't for the fact I've seen similar issues time and time again that turn out to be related to the HDD it also seems to be the one thing you are not running hours of diagnistics on.

The fact that it runs OK from the Unbuntu distro points to everything working except the HDD.

If you can get a copy of that PartedMagic distro (its just like Unbuntu but built just for working with partions and HDD issues, download the iso and burn a copy) and check the hard drive from that I think you might manage to prove the HDD has had it. I have a HDD here on my desk that will load Windows and run for a bit but sooner or later crashes, the crashes get worse, then a reinstall will fix it for a bit, but it won't even finish even the SMART HDD test from PartedMagic and a look at the SMART History shows its throwing IO errors.

Edit> If you have a copy of the Ultimate Boot CD (I've never used it) then check if it also has SMART HDD tests, that does assume your HDD supports SMART.

Seifer

William Powell wrote: »

Like others have said I'd be thinking HDD all the way here. Even if it wasn't for the fact I've seen similar issues time and time again that turn out to be related to the HDD it also seems to be the one thing you are not running hours of diagnistics on.

???
I have run the Dell hard-drive diagnostic multiple times as well as the Western Digital one which has now completed a second pass with no errors.
I have wiped it with an open source utility and am now wiping it with the WD one.

The fact that it runs OK from the Unbuntu distro points to everything working except the HDD.

The fact what runs ok?

William Powell

Seifer wrote: »

???
The fact what runs ok?

Seifer wrote: »

So after checking if the system was stable on a Ubuntu live cd (it seemed to be), I went for a full Ubuntu install. It crashed during this. And crashes when I try to install it or Windows 7.

Sorry I bothered.

Seifer

William Powell wrote: »

Sorry I bothered.

My bad, I thought I had mentioned in the thread that it has subsequently crashed when running off the live cd.

William Powell

Seifer wrote: »

My bad, I thought I had mentioned in the thread that it has subsequently crashed when running off the live cd.

Fair enough, does all sound strange. I'd normally go straight for memory but your tests seem to rule that out. I did have one memory issue once that didn't show up untill the machine was running underload and all the hardware was running hot (well warmed up anyway). If I ran windows memtest on that system it ran fine from cold and I never had a single Memory error but if I tried the memtest as soon as I had a blue screen in Windows when the machine had been running for a bit then it showed up 100's of errors.

To rule out the HDD and the Optical drive (CD/DVD Drive) then if you still have that Live CD you could create an Unbuntu Bootable USB on another PC and then boot from that USB Key. If that runs OK then it could be the optical drive.

Have you tried to sort out the partion problem with Gparted on the Unbuntu Live CD?

Also, you probably have two sticks of RAM so try each one on their own and see if the install goes any better.

---

grasping at straws

Seifer

William Powell wrote: »

Fair enough, does all sound strange. I'd normally go straight for memory but your tests seem to rule that out. I did have one memory issue once that didn't show up untill the machine was running underload and all the hardware was running hot (well warmed up anyway). If I ran windows memtest on that system it ran fine from cold and I never had a single Memory error but if I tried the memtest as soon as I had a blue screen in Windows when the machine had been running for a bit then it showed up 100's of errors.

Originally I thought it could be an overheating thing but the crashes always happen within about 5 minutes and the diagnostics will run for hours.

To rule out the HDD and the Optical drive (CD/DVD Drive) then if you still have that Live CD you could create an Unbuntu Bootable USB on another PC and then boot from that USB Key. If that runs OK then it could be the optical drive.

I tried the USB thing. This exhibited weird behaviour where after it crashed it would not recognise the usb during boot again. Reburnt it a different day and it still crashed.

Have you tried to sort out the partion problem with Gparted on the Unbuntu Live CD?

Also, you probably have two sticks of RAM so try each one on their own and see if the install goes any better.

I have gparted lying around somewhere so I'll give that a try if the WD wipe doesn't work.

---

grasping at straws

I'm ready to give up. Even if I can't isolate the problem there is no way it can be fixed with a software solution so I hopefully can't see myself losing money to Dell.

Seifer

After 2 hours on the phone with Dell and paying €109 and subsequently getting it refunded they have agreed to come and collect it and fix/replace it.

Thanks for all the help guys, hopefully this will be the end of it.

(He had me worried at one point after running some mad DOS debug commands; never so happy to see a blue screen :P)

BostonB

Seifer wrote: »

My bad, I thought I had mentioned in the thread that it has subsequently crashed when running off the live cd.

That kinda changes everything tbh.

Next you'd have to boot off USB or swap the DVD to eliminate that.

Seifer

Laptop finally came back from Dell today. According to the invoice that came with it they replaced the motherboard, processor and harddrive. So basically it sounds like they couldn't narrow it down either.
Hopefully that's the end of it. Thanks for all the suggestions guys.