Pierse Construction applies for examinership

Oliver1985

Link Below, Another huge group in trouble now just saw it on rte news!!!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1012/pierse.html

jdivision

It's been gonna happen for ages. Tribune was writing about their woes all of last year. Was only a matter of time...

Oliver1985

Gannon Homes owes them 16million for work done in Clongriffin :eek:

RATM

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Gannon Homes owes them 16million for work done in Clongriffin :eek:

Yeah it looks like Gannons are the company largely responsible for bringing them down.

They now have 100 days to do a deal with their creditors. Irrespsective of that tons of sub-contractors are going to be out of pocket here and more companies will fall (if they haven't already) as a result. The virus spreads

Amalgam

The Irish Times running an article on the matter this morning.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/1013/1224280974173.html

Pierse Group gets High Court protection from creditors

LAURA SLATTERY and MARY CAROLAN

THE PIERSE Group, one of the biggest construction companies in the State, has received court protection from its creditors following a collapse in cashflow and a rise in bad debts.

The High Court yesterday appointed an interim examiner to Pierse Contracting and Pierse Building Services, the two businesses within the group.

The company said its contracting business was trading profitably but it was owed more than €30 million for work that it had completed, of which more than €20 million had been “severely delayed”, causing “serious cashflow problems”.

In a statement, the group’s directors welcomed the appointment of John McStay of McStay Luby as an examiner to the business. Under the examinership process Mr McStay will seek new investment for the group and implement a restructuring plan to keep the viable part of its business in operation.

Pierse chief executive Nobby O’Reilly said he believed the company had a strong chance of survival and was working on contracts with a value of €151.5 million.

The company’s bad debts include a sum of €16 million owed to it by one developer, Gannon Homes, the loans of which have now transferred to the National Asset Management Agency (Nama). The debt relates to work carried out at a new town centre at Clongriffin, Co Dublin.

Rossa Fanning, counsel for the Pierse Group, said this debt had created an intolerable cashflow difficulty, adding that if it was not for this debt the company would not be before the High Court.

Moving the petition for examinership on behalf of Pierse, Mr Fanning said a report from an independent accountant expressed the view that the companies have a reasonable prospect of survival as going concerns if certain steps are taken.

The firms require new funds to support their working capital needs, the continued co-operation of key suppliers and contractors and agreement from Nama on its survival proposals, the court heard.

If the firms were wound up, their liabilities would be about €310 million, counsel said. Over the past two years four of its five directors had “put their money where the mouth is” and injected €12 million of personal funds into the business in order to stabilise the situation.

Mr Fanning said Pierse was fully tax compliant and owed €30 million to Bank of Ireland, Bank of Scotland Ireland and Anglo Irish Bank.

The firms employed 700 people at their peak, but that number has since been reduced to 211. The group has also cut its overheads from €19 million to €5 million.

Mr Fanning said the firms had turnover of more than €300 million during the building boom but expected to have turnover of just €100 million in the year ending April 2011.

Pierse, which was founded by Ged Pierse in 1978, has been involved in a number of major construction projects including Jervis Shopping Centre, the Dublin Civic Offices, the British embassy, the Conrad and Carton House hotels and several buildings in the Dublin Docklands.

dan_d

Pierse have been in trouble for a good 2 years now - I'm surprised it took this long.
The reason I say - I worked in construction, and builders are serious gossips - you hear everything long before the media does.

lizm

My son is doing an electrical apprenticeship and the company who he worked for were doing a lot of work for pierse, now pierse have left them 270k in the red and my son and his fellow workers dont get paid their months wages this week as they were supposed to(they had been working their a**e off some weeks getting jobs finished on time), at this present time he is now at home with no job (again) and not even his wages due to him to soften the blow. And his boss owes another company 80k for fittings that he bought to do the work for pierse, so his problems are worse. Its a terrible domino effect, I really hope its true that what goes around comes around.

Victor

dan_d wrote: »

Pierse have been in trouble for a good 2 years now

No different from most in the industry.

dan_d

Victor wrote: »

No different from most in the industry.

Exactly.
But some we heard about long before others.
Pierse was one of them.

Divorce Referendum

dan_d wrote: »

Pierse have been in trouble for a good 2 years now - I'm surprised it took this long.
The reason I say - I worked in construction, and builders are serious gossips - you hear everything long before the media does.

I worked for them for two years. I started in 2007 and things started to tighten up at that stage. They were ok to work for but extremely harsh on sub-contrators. They actually have alot of work on at the moment which is highly unusual. If they had of stayed away from the development side of things like Sisk they would be looking good now.

ludermor

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

I worked for them for two years. I started in 2007 and things started to tighten up at that stage. They were ok to work for but extremely harsh on sub-contrators. They actually have alot of work on at the moment which is highly unusual. If they had of stayed away from the development side of things like Sisk they would be looking good now.

Most of their work is Gov work ( service stations, schools, council buildings)and they undercut everyone which is not hard to do when you are paying noone. I know a lot of lads who worked with them longterm and they all got shafted, there wont be too many tears for Pierse themselves but spare a thought for the subbies they will bring down with them.

Victor

ludermor wrote: »

paying noone.

1. Construction payments are always slow and are a fact of life that have to be accepted.

2. Pierse are as much the victim here as anyone as they aren't being paid themselves.

ludermor

Victor wrote: »

1. Construction payments are always slow and are a fact of life that have to be accepted.

2. Pierse are as much the victim here as anyone as they aren't being paid themselves.

They are slow but over 2 years ago Pierse were holding money and this was on jobs that they were getting paid on time, i know this for a fact as i knew 2 Qs's who worked for them and they would sign off on their payments but it would be held at director level. The stunts Pierse were pulling went way beyond normal construction difficulties and they were at it in the good times as well.
Point 2 is only true in a small sense in that they have made their bed by going head first into developments , they reckon they are owed 16m by Gannon, probably true but they were in partnership with Gannon on some developments. They state if they went under now they would have 300million of liabilities!! How is this possible if they are only owed 20million?

Victor

Presumably they also have assets.

Dempo1

Writing as been on the wall since 2007. It amazed me this companies loans were not brought into Nama (for what that's worth). Disturbingly this company has a dreadful record when it comes to paying subcontractors and only last year they closed their English operation leaving 60 people without a months pay or redundancies, i believe that incident went to court but never heard what the outcome was. Then history repeats itself here and only last month this company attempted to layoff 30 employees with no redundancies (reported in the Sunday independent). Seems to me they got what was coming. The Gannon story is just farcical, just last year Pierse brought an action against this company claiming it carried out €45m worth of work without any contract in place, Bizarre stuff but the director responsible has now escaped to Dubai, lock stock and barrel, seems he had the good sense to bail out just in time.

The Tribune has been on this case for quite some time and Pierse changed its company status a few years back making it impossible to know how its performing. I doubt a few school projects (courtesy of that clown Tom MC Parland) will see this company through. It occurred to me poor tom must be worrying about his own future, I believe subscriptions to the ludicrous CIF have collapsed, perhaps it too might find itself in the commercial court soon.

Divorce Referendum

Dempo1 wrote: »

Writing as been on the wall since 2007. It amazed me this companies loans were not brought into Nama (for what that's worth). Disturbingly this company has a dreadful record when it comes to paying subcontractors and only last year they closed their English operation leaving 60 people without a months pay or redundancies, i believe that incident went to court but never heard what the outcome was. Then history repeats itself here and only last month this company attempted to layoff 30 employees with no redundancies (reported in the Sunday independent). Seems to me they got what was coming. The Gannon story is just farcical, just last year Pierse brought an action against this company claiming it carried out €45m worth of work without any contract in place, Bizarre stuff but the director responsible has now escaped to Dubai, lock stock and barrel, seems he had the good sense to bail out just in time.

The Tribune has been on this case for quite some time and Pierse changed its company status a few years back making it impossible to know how its performing. I doubt a few school projects (courtesy of that clown Tom MC Parland) will see this company through. It occurred to me poor tom must be worrying about his own future, I believe subscriptions to the ludicrous CIF have collapsed, perhaps it too might find itself in the commercial court soon.

The real problem occured in 2005 when Ged Pierse steeped down as Managing Director. The O' Reillys hadnt a clue when it came to the financial aspect of the company.

Dempo1

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

The real problem occurred in 2005 when Ged Pierse steeped down as Managing Director. The O' Reillys hadnt a clue when it came to the financial aspect of the company.

I did not have the pleasure of knowing these buffoons until 07 including third brother who runs a small construction firm (now just a shelf company awaiting liquidation), and couldn't agree more. I worked for the older one in another sector, you would not believe the mess i took over and had to rescue, one of numerous investments and interests which have been a disaster. The younger brother had an interesting experience (not of the pleasant kind) a few months back, word had it a sub contractor none to pleased. He soon disappeared of the Pierse website as a director and has moved entirely to the middle east. O the joys, couldn't happen to a nicer shower of Shiites, just feel sorry for the few remaining employees who doubtless will not get a penny in redundancy never mind wages if this company folds.

Victor

Can I just ask people to back up their assertions with something verifiable? I don't want to get into defamation territory?

Dempo1

Victor wrote: »

Can I just ask people to back up their assertions with something verifiable? I don't want to get into defamation territory?

Glad to oblige

http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/sep/27/pierse-aims-to-settle-subcontractors-high-court-ac/?q=pierse

http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/sep/20/pierse-contracting-in-high-court-action-against-ga/?q=pierse this would be funny if it were not true

http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/may/17/receiver-appointed-to-the-british-subsidiary-of-pi/?q=pierse Phase one of acting the maggot

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/jobs-row-threatens-motorway-projects-2352592.html phase two of acting the maggot

jdivision

http://www.tribune.ie/business/news/article/2010/oct/17/half-of-employees-to-be-let-go-under-pierse-plan/

Dempo1

jdivision wrote: »

http://www.tribune.ie/business/news/article/2010/oct/17/half-of-employees-to-be-let-go-under-pierse-plan/

Interesting spin this company is putting on its woes, little or no mention of its responsibilities to its subcontractors but interesting to see they intend to use examiner ship to let go more staff albeit hopefully this time around they will be obligated to pay redundancies. Sad demise for a company boasting 600 full time employees two years ago. I also see they are intending to sue the OPW, bizarre second example of this company laying out vast sums on preparatory work with no contract guarantee's (€5m is being claimed). They boast having an excellent track record re PPP, i suspect this latest litigation will somewhat diminish future tendering opportunities.

Dempo1

http://www.insolvencyjournal.ie/home_more_details/10-10-17/What%e2%80%99s_in_the_Sunday_Papers.aspx

Seems things are hotting up with Subcontractors planning protests at a school in ferbane, co. offaly. A project finished months ago and in Brian Cowens constituency.

Divorce Referendum

Well the final nail is in the coffin. Liquidators have been appointed to Pierse.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1104/pierse.html

stepbar

ludermor wrote: »

They are slow but over 2 years ago Pierse were holding money and this was on jobs that they were getting paid on time, i know this for a fact as i knew 2 Qs's who worked for them and they would sign off on their payments but it would be held at director level. The stunts Pierse were pulling went way beyond normal construction difficulties and they were at it in the good times as well.
Point 2 is only true in a small sense in that they have made their bed by going head first into developments , they reckon they are owed 16m by Gannon, probably true but they were in partnership with Gannon on some developments. They state if they went under now they would have 300million of liabilities!! How is this possible if they are only owed 20million?

They owe €30 million to BOI / BOSI / Anglo and cannot pay any creditors outside of the bank. I guess that's where the rest of the debt comes from. Debt "on tick" I doubt the banks are even sure they will get their money back. However from the article it looks like BOI is the only secured creditor? That's assuming the value of the security is correct.

I cannot understand for the life of me how Gannon Homes are still trading and WHY Pierse hasn't sued Gannon Homes to recover the €16 million owed.

I find it scandalous that Pierse went in front of the High Court asking for examinership and then couldn't be bothered presenting the case for same. It won't be the last you'll hear of this one.

Divorce Referendum

stepbar wrote: »

They owe €30 million to BOI / BOSI / Anglo and cannot pay any creditors outside of the bank. I guess that's where the rest of the debt comes from. Debt "on tick" I doubt the banks are even sure they will get their money back. However from the article it looks like BOI is the only secured creditor? That's assuming the value of the security is correct.

I cannot understand for the life of me how Gannon Homes are still trading and WHY Pierse hasn't sued Gannon Homes to recover the €16 million owed.

I find it scandalous that Pierse went in front of the High Court asking for examinership and then couldn't be bothered presenting the case for same. It won't be the last you'll hear of this one.

Im pretty sure they tried but the lack of a contract was a stumbling block. This is just unbelievable in this day and age.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0202/1224263578575.html

Dempo1

What an extraordinary day in the High court, i couldn't get over the neck of the directors of Pierse, clearly their Senior counsel was also got off Gard. These chancers tried to fast track the appointment of a Liquidator knowing full well the cat was out of the bag with their ridiculous attempts to have an examiner appointed with creditors coming out of the wood work demanding explanations for contracts taken on knowing full well this company was insolvent. The Judge was having none of it and demanded answers within two hours.

In the afternoon the Judge appointed a liquidator but his Judgment was damning and the Liquidator has been asked to investigate director activities. Further to this he confirmed Pierses poor mouth excuse for its difficulties was a €17m debt from gannon homes was a farce given the fact the companies over all liabilities are €200m and rising. The Dogs on the street knew this company was acting the bollox as far back as 2007

It was astonishing stuff and it was a pleasure to see how the commercial court should work. I suspect the directors are in for a busy time explaining themselves but no doubt will be retreating to their substantial piles in foxrock.

Absolutely disgraceful this companies treatment of its subcontractors and suppliers, just feel sorry for the few staff that were left and small suppliers left high and dry.

Picture of the day had to be padlocks and chains on the gates of this companies HQ in Blanchardstown.:mad:

Dempo1

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

Im pretty sure they tried but the lack of a contract was a stumbling block. This is just unbelievable in this day and age.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0202/1224263578575.html

Yes they attempted to sue until it became apparent a former director (now in Dubai) did not complete paperwork, Gob****e but at least he was clever enough to get out before todays date. Gannons loans are now with NAMA.

Victor

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

Im pretty sure they tried but the lack of a contract was a stumbling block. This is just unbelievable in this day and age.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0202/1224263578575.html

Contract law 101 - quantum meruit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_meruit

poconnor16

I am one of the unlucky ones who rented a home from Pierse construction a year ago. As they couldn't turn over any deposits to their receivers or liquidators we now have no way of getting our money back. (which is a substantial amount)
I am working with Threshold at the moment to see what our options are but for now I just wanted to rant. :mad:. I have no pity for that company, they were horrible to deal with during the tenancy, never gave a straight answer, entered our home without permission....and now are doing us out of money. :mad::mad:

Dempo1

poconnor16 wrote: »

I am one of the unlucky ones who rented a home from Pierse construction a year ago. As they couldn't turn over any deposits to their receivers or liquidators we now have no way of getting our money back. (which is a substantial amount)
I am working with Threshold at the moment to see what our options are but for now I just wanted to rant. :mad:. I have no pity for that company, they were horrible to deal with during the tenancy, never gave a straight answer, entered our home without permission....and now are doing us out of money. :mad::mad:

Sorry to hear about your situation, sadly this company left many, many people high and dry. The real tragedy is this company had been in trouble for almost two years before it went into receivership. Seems like they were acting the maggot with you re how rent was paid.

Its a real mess, I saw the recent protests outside the new service stations on the M1, spoke to a few contractors who were pressurized by Pierse to get the stations completed whilst not paying them, shortly after the completion the receivers were appointed. Disgraceful carry on!

poconnor16

Oh complete crowd of gangsters!! Read on...

When the receivership was announced, we had a letter put through the door from Pierse to change the direct debit details as soon as possible to this 'new' account. Being suspicious I didn't and tried to contact them, no answer. Then the receiver contacted us with the correct new accuont details. Pierse were trying to do us out of a months rent - unreal.:eek:

Seeing as we have no way really of getting that deposit back, our plan was to not pay our last month, go into arrears, live there for the last month and they can then keep the deposit. Usually a landlord cannot evict you without a high court order in this instance, which would take longer than a month. However, Pierse included an extra part in our lease, written in bold, that if rent was late, they can enter the proprty after 7 days of it being late.....

i.e. they knew over a year ago they were going down the potty and still rented the house to us and took off with our money.

A horrible crowd of people, no pity for any of them. My pity is for the many people they have conned. How in the name of god does this country let this happen???