Upcoming Autumn Internationals

duckysauce

tolosenc wrote: »

Awful squad selection. Deccie's Munster roots are very much on show.

what changes would you make ?

PhatPiggins

thomond2006 wrote: »

I think he was referring to Horan and Hayes' inclusions more than anything.

You don't say? I was attempting to add balance to his statement.

thehighground

Goodluck2me wrote: »

100% completely untrue, not being smart sorry.

So none of the provinces were interested in Carr then? Johne Murphy had a choice of province, getting offers of employment from Leinster & Munster (according to an interview with him in the Irish Times) so its not as if they were not looking for wingers!

irishbucsfan

thehighground wrote: »

So none of the provinces were interested in Carr then? Johne Murphy had a choice of province, getting offers of employment from Leinster & Munster (according to an interview with him in the Irish Times) so its not as if they were not looking for wingers!

Carr was never officially apprached by Munster. If someone has reported that he was then they're incorrect.


Agree completely about Trimble, he is very underrated by most here

bamboozle

sock puppet wrote: »

I don't really agree with that. Every Irish starter for Leinster bar Jennings has been selected as has every deserving Ulster player. I don't like his reluctance to pick Connacht players though. It's a slightly conservative selection but we'll see if Kidney's willing to replace the older players when the team for South Africa is announced.

you could defniately argue a bias was shown towards Hayes and Horan both of whose careers are going in the same downward direction (albeit after years of great service) the very fact Horan isnt being replaced is a slap in the face to Wilkinson.

i dont really think its a pro muster bias though i think its just a reluctance by management to make the hard calls and bring through better younger players such as Hagan, Carr, Wilkinson. This is a side to Kidney which has really suprised me cause the disaster of the last world cup was partially attribuatable to EOS sticking with the old guard and leaving Heaslip and Kearney at home, plus i always though Kidney knew when a players time was up yet he's sticking with Horgan, Hayes and Horan when its clear to the dog on the street there are better players knocking on the door.

theKramer

bamboozle wrote: »

This is a side to Kidney which has really suprised me cause the disaster of the last world cup was partially attribuatable to EOS sticking with the old guard and leaving Heaslip and Kearney at home, plus i always though Kidney knew when a players time was up yet he's sticking with Horgan, Hayes and Horan when its clear to the dog on the street there are better players knocking on the door.

+1

He had no qualms in 2008 in promoting Leamy, O'Leary and Dennis Hurley to the starting team for the quarters of the Heineken Cup. Thought he would have shown the same balls for this squad.

danthefan

Shaun Payne was meant to retire at the end of 06/07, but played on for another few months. When he finally did retire Hurley came in.

Foley was next to useless by 2008 and also retired at the end of the season, it was am absolute no brainer. Leamy was already the Irish 8 at that stage.

Podge_irl

bamboozle wrote: »

This is a side to Kidney which has really suprised me

I don't know why.

thehighground

danthefan wrote: »

Shaun Payne was meant to retire at the end of 06/07, but played on for another few months. When he finally did retire Hurley came in.

Foley was next to useless by 2008 and also retired at the end of the season, it was am absolute no brainer. Leamy was already the Irish 8 at that stage.

Ha, ha, ha!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kud2hEgn0Tc

Next to useless was he? Foley played in 7 of the HCup games for the 2008 Heineken Cup win (starting 4 of them). Kidney could have put him in the match day squad, but put Keith Earls (who had about 3 magners games to his name and didn't get game time instead (presumably thinking of one for the future).

Payne played on until Hurley was deemed to be good enough to take over.

Of course you ignore Stringer being dropped for Tomas O'Leary


EDIT: I don't know you don't understand that Healy & Buckley need all the time they can get as they have about 20 caps between them, not to mention Ross & Court needing time as well. Ross hasn't even been capped yet and there are only so many international matches between now and the RWC.

Same goes for Earls, Fitz, Trimble & Kearney - they need to build up international experience & confidence when playing the bigger teams.

If Leinster & Munster rate Johne Murphy ahead of Carr, why would the Ireland management not think the same.

danthefan

And hopefully Kidney will see sense and drop Hayes like he droped Foley.

irishbucsfan

thehighground wrote: »

If Leinster & Munster rate Johne Murphy ahead of Carr, why would the Ireland management not think the same.

You still seem to be quite confused about the whole Carr situation.

Leinster never rated Johne Murphy ahead of Fionn Carr. Not even when they were both based in Leinster, and Carr was a starlet in the academy and Murphy didn't feature at all and was forced to go overseas (he graduated the same year as Heaslip from Newbridge College and fell off the Irish radar completely).

The fact that Leinster didn't offer Carr a contract has nothing to do with how their current management rate him as a player now, they may well want to bring him in as soon as he's ready to leave Connacht.

Carr and Munster were never in contact, and Carr may not necessarily want to play there. In the same way Cronin may not want to play for Leinster.

Does the fact that Cronin or Keatley play for Connacht mean that Munster and Leinster don't rate them as players? Your logic is flawed there.

thehighground

danthefan wrote: »

And hopefully Kidney will see sense and drop Hayes like he droped Foley.

Is that an admittance that Kidney doesn't pick on sentiment, then Dan?

If Buckley & Ross perform well over the AIs and 6Ns, Hayes will be dropped. But he will be kept in reserve.

thehighground

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You still seem to be quite confused about the whole Carr situation.

Leinster never rated Johne Murphy ahead of Fionn Carr. Not even when they were both based in Leinster, and Carr was a starlet in the academy and Murphy didn't feature at all and was forced to go overseas (he graduated the same year as Heaslip from Newbridge College and fell off the Irish radar completely).

The fact that Leinster didn't offer Carr a contract has nothing to do with how their current management rate him as a player now, they may well want to bring him in as soon as he's ready to leave Connacht.

Carr and Munster were never in contact, and Carr may not necessarily want to play there. In the same way Cronin may not want to play for Leinster.

Does the fact that Cronin or Keatley play for Connacht mean that Munster and Leinster don't rate them as players? Your logic is flawed there.

I'm referring to an interview in the Irish Times recently where Johne Murphy said he was offered a contract by both Leinster & Munster for this season and although taking on Irish qualified wingers, they didn't offer Carr one - i.e., Johne Murphy is more highly rated than Carr by both Leinster & Munster.

irishbucsfan

thehighground wrote: »

Is that an admittance that Kidney doesn't pick on sentiment, then Dan?

If Buckley & Ross perform well over the AIs and 6Ns, Hayes will be dropped. But he will be kept in reserve.

Its also possible that the IRFU are keeping Hayes and Horan around for their experience, to help the others.

I'm not worried about their inclusion in the squad. If they're selected at all I'll be very disappointed.

Auvers

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Its also possible that the IRFU are keeping Hayes and Horan around for their experience, to help the others.

I'm not worried about their inclusion in the squad. If they're selected at all I'll be very disappointed.

Horan is out for 4-6 weeks with a broken hand

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/magnersleague/2010/1021/horanm.html

thehighground

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Its also possible that the IRFU are keeping Hayes and Horan around for their experience, to help the others.

I'm not worried about their inclusion in the squad. If they're selected at all I'll be very disappointed.

A fair few here are throwing hissy fits about their (& Horgan's) inclusion in the squad. And while Horan is injured for now, I don't think he is quite finished yet.

irishbucsfan

thehighground wrote: »

I'm referring to an interview in the Irish Times recently where Johne Murphy said he was offered a contract by both Leinster & Munster for this season and although taking on Irish qualified wingers, they didn't offer Carr one - i.e., Johne Murphy is more highly rated than Carr by both Leinster & Munster.

Just because Munster offered Murphy a contract doesn't mean they rate him higher than Carr, that doesn't follow. The reason Murphy was signed was to bring him back under a central contract. Carr is already contracted to an arm of the IRFU.

If Carr doesn't want to move to Munster, then he may have made that known to the IRFU. I think he'll be at Connacht for this season and the next after, and after the World Cup we'll see Horgan retire and possibly see Nacewa move (there were rumours of him following Cheika or returning home when his contract is up) freeing up space for Carr to return. Same with Cronin to Munster. Question is will Hagan/Keatley stay at Connacht or move on?

irishbucsfan

Auvers wrote: »

Horan is out for 4-6 weeks with a broken hand

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/magnersleague/2010/1021/horanm.html

Yes, and they haven't called up a replacement. I think we could well see him stick around the training pitch to work with the others (wonder if anyone here can confirm that).

thehighground

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Just because Munster offered Murphy a contract doesn't mean they rate him higher than Carr, that doesn't follow. The reason Murphy was signed was to bring him back under a central contract. Carr is already contracted to an arm of the IRFU.

If Carr doesn't want to move to Munster, then he may have made that known to the IRFU. I think he'll be at Connacht for this season and the next after, and after the World Cup we'll see Horgan retire and possibly see Nacewa move (there were rumours of him following Cheika or returning home when his contract is up) freeing up space for Carr to return. Same with Cronin to Munster. Question is will Hagan/Keatley stay at Connacht or move on?

Johne Murphy was offered a contract by Leinster as well, not just Munster.

Just like both Munster & Leinster wanted Tommy Bowe as well. They are all on the lookout for quality players, particularly if they are Irish qualified.

irishbucsfan

thehighground wrote: »

Johne Murphy was offered a contract by Leinster as well, not just Munster.

Just like both Munster & Leinster wanted Tommy Bowe as well. They are all on the lookout for quality players, particularly if they are Irish qualified.

But again that has nothing to do with how the management of either team rate Fionn Carr

thehighground

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But again that has nothing to do with how the management of either team rate Fionn Carr

It does. If they thought he would be a better addition than Murphy, they would have offered him a job. Or do you believe that Munster, Leinster or Ulster wouldn't take players (on 1 year contracts) from poor little Connacht or something?

Username37

thehighground wrote: »

It does. If they thought he would be a better addition than Murphy, they would have offered him a job. Or do you believe that Munster, Leinster or Ulster wouldn't take players (on 1 year contracts) from poor little Connacht or something?

How do you know they didn't? Perhaps they did, or perhaps Carr made it abundantly clear that he wanted to stay in Connacht. No one really knows. It certainly doesn't reflect how either team rate him.

CouchSmart

thehighground wrote: »

Johne Murphy was offered a contract by Leinster as well, not just Munster.

Source?

thehighground

CouchSmart wrote: »

Source?

Irish Times interview (as I've said above).

And this is the first thing that popped up when I went looking for a link (from Leinster Leader).

"How did the move to Munster come about?

"There was interest from the three provinces in me this year and I always believed that life after rugby would be back home in Ireland and I came to the decision this year that by the time the season ends I will be with Leicester for five years, if I re-signed with the club it would have been for another two and at that stage I would have been seriously thinking of setting up life permanently in England and I never really thought that would happen.

"It was a kind of a family sort of thing. Apart from my immediate family, (dad John, mam Mary, nee Stafford, of Newbridge Golf Club fame, four sisters and a brother) I have five nieces and nephews and another on the way, so you miss all that, we've got a big family and are all very close. It's great to pop in to my sister Kathryn for coffee (Mary-Kathryn's, Deli, Academy Street, Kildare) and meet everyone, and be around on a Sunday. That was probably the reason behind it (signing for Munster) and when I had the interest from the provinces it was the gut feeling I got from Munster, a very similar set-up to what I am used to in Leicester, it seemed like the right decision for me and hopefully it all works out."

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/sport/The-Interview-Johne-Murphy.6193943.jp

thehighground

Username37 wrote: »

How do you know they didn't? Perhaps they did, or perhaps Carr made it abundantly clear that he wanted to stay in Connacht. No one really knows. It certainly doesn't reflect how either team rate him.

Some people here who claim to be in the know said he wasn't. Turning down the opportunity to play Heineken Cup rugby could be interpreted as a lack of ambition.

Username37

thehighground wrote: »

Irish Times interview (as I've said above).

And this is the first thing that popped up when I went looking for a link (from Leinster Leader).

"How did the move to Munster come about?

"There was interest from the three provinces in me this year and I always believed that life after rugby would be back home in Ireland and I came to the decision this year that by the time the season ends I will be with Leicester for five years, if I re-signed with the club it would have been for another two and at that stage I would have been seriously thinking of setting up life permanently in England and I never really thought that would happen.

"It was a kind of a family sort of thing. Apart from my immediate family, (dad John, mam Mary, nee Stafford, of Newbridge Golf Club fame, four sisters and a brother) I have five nieces and nephews and another on the way, so you miss all that, we've got a big family and are all very close. It's great to pop in to my sister Kathryn for coffee (Mary-Kathryn's, Deli, Academy Street, Kildare) and meet everyone, and be around on a Sunday. That was probably the reason behind it (signing for Munster) and when I had the interest from the provinces it was the gut feeling I got from Munster, a very similar set-up to what I am used to in Leicester, it seemed like the right decision for me and hopefully it all works out."

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/sport/The-Interview-Johne-Murphy.6193943.jp

How do you know it wasn't Ulster, Connacht and Munster that were interested? Seems much more plausable than Leinster who really didn't need someone like Murphy.

And by the way, just because Carr didn't come out and say he had offers from other provinces doesn't mean he didn't.

Username37

thehighground wrote: »

Some people here who claim to be in the know said he wasn't. Turning down the opportunity to play Heineken Cup rugby could be interpreted as a lack of ambition.

Who are these people then? Perhaps Carr believes he can get Connacht to the HC. That would mean hes even more ambitious than most if anything. Basically what I am trying to get through to you is that you're making complete assumptions about situations that you don't have the facts on which isn't fair.

CouchSmart

thehighground wrote: »

"There was interest from the three provinces in me this year and I always believed that life after rugby would be back home in Ireland and I came to the decision this year that by the time the season ends I will be with Leicester for five years, if I re-signed with the club it would have been for another two and at that stage I would have been seriously thinking of setting up life permanently in England and I never really thought that would happen.

Always thought there was 4 provinces

thehighground

Username37 wrote: »

How do you know it wasn't Ulster, Connacht and Munster that were interested? Seems much more plausable than Leinster who really didn't need someone like Murphy.

And by the way, just because Carr didn't come out and say he had offers from other provinces doesn't mean he didn't.

In the original interview I read, it said Ulster & Leinster (as well as Munster). Since that is a Leinster paper they were probably trying to be diplomatic. (And do you really think Connacht would be offering 1 year contracts to proven players like him who were offered 2 year contracts to stay where he was?)

I had heard that Carr was offered contracts by Leinster & Munster, but he was looking for a guaranteed number of starts which neither were willing to give him. I posted that here and someone who claimed to be in the know, said it wasn't true that he had got no offers from Leinster or Munster.

thehighground

thehighground wrote: »

In the original interview I read, it said Ulster & Leinster (as well as Munster). Since that is a Leinster paper they were probably trying to be diplomatic. (And do you really think Connacht would be offering 1 year contracts to proven players like him who were offered 2 year contracts to stay where he was?)

I had heard that Carr was offered contracts by Leinster & Munster, but he was looking for a guaranteed number of starts which neither were willing to give him. I posted that here and someone who claimed to be in the know, said it wasn't true that he had got no offers from Leinster or Munster.

EDIT: And here is another reference to him saying he got an offer from Leinster & Ulster:


"Murphy believes he made the right decision to come south
when both Leinster and Ulster also showed interest in
bringing him back home to Ireland. The Rathangan, Co
Kildare, native went to Newbridge College and played a
couple of years with Lansdowne before Geordan Murphy
played a part in organising a trial at Welford Road."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/kfcwsnojqlgb/rss2/

its_phil

Did it ever occur that Carr might enjoy playing for Connacht,or is that just nonsense because no one could ever enjoy living or playing out west?A lot of Connacht's moves revolve around him and maybe he likes being in that role?Gone are the days in Connacht when we boot the ball (forgive the ulster game),interaction between backs and forwards with ball in hand is encouraged hugely and this could only suit Fionn. I think an accusation of lack of ambition is quite sad.

Carr must have got offers from other clubs,19 tries in 3 seasons with the bottom ML club?Sounds like a bargain.I have no firm evidence he did but i would be surprised if he hadn't got any. I really do think him not getting a call up was dissapointing,hopefully he burns Shaggy on saturday!;)

irishbucsfan

thehighground wrote: »

It does. If they thought he would be a better addition than Murphy, they would have offered him a job. Or do you believe that Munster, Leinster or Ulster wouldn't take players (on 1 year contracts) from poor little Connacht or something?

I don't know how much cooperation there is between the provinces, but what as I said above, if Carr isn't interested in Munster, they'd be aware of that and they wouldn't make an offer.

I DO think that they got a lot more backing from the IRFU to sign Murphy due to him being outside the country.



As I said, the fact that Carr doesn't play for Munster doesn't mean he isn't rated by them, just as the fact that Cronin doesn't play for Leinster doesnt mean he isnt rated by Leinster

thehighground

its_phil wrote: »

Did it ever occur that Carr might enjoy playing for Connacht,or is that just nonsense?A lot of Connacht's moves revolve around him and maybe he likes being in that role?Gone are the days in Connacht when we boot the ball (forgive the ulster game),interaction between backs and forwards with ball in hand is encouraged hugely and this could only suit Fionn.

Carr must have got offers from other clubs,19 tries in 3 seasons with the bottom ML club?Sounds like a bargain.I have no firm evidence he did but i would be surprised if he hadn't got any. I really do think him not getting a call up was dissapointing,hopefully he burns Shaggy on saturday!;)

Its obvious that Carr is happy playing for Connacht - but with the qualify wingers we have who have been tested at the highest club level before they made international level, he is going to find it difficult to get a start at international level.

irishbucsfan

its_phil wrote: »

Did it ever occur that Carr might enjoy playing for Connacht,or is that just nonsense because no one could ever enjoy living or playing out west?A lot of Connacht's moves revolve around him and maybe he likes being in that role?Gone are the days in Connacht when we boot the ball (forgive the ulster game),interaction between backs and forwards with ball in hand is encouraged hugely and this could only suit Fionn. I think an accusation of lack of ambition is quite sad.

Carr must have got offers from other clubs,19 tries in 3 seasons with the bottom ML club?Sounds like a bargain.I have no firm evidence he did but i would be surprised if he hadn't got any. I really do think him not getting a call up was dissapointing,hopefully he burns Shaggy on saturday!;)

Carr was approached by major English clubs two years running AFAIK

CouchSmart

To be honest Carr should and I think would have gone to Munster if a contract was offered, he'd have to be stupid not to take it unless of course he has no aspirations of playing for a top level club. He would have been a guaranteed starter after a few games, not too many players vying for the 11 shirt down south.

its_phil

thehighground wrote: »

Its obvious that Carr is happy playing for Connacht - but with the qualify wingers we have who have been tested at the highest club level before they made international level, he is going to find it difficult to get a start at international level.

That's a very fair argument,but cronin is head to head with best for the no.2 jersey and muldoon no.6 (o'brien will get nod though) while playing amlin cup rugby. I don't think you should be judged on the competition you play in, I think if your good enough your good enough and i think Carr is. Thats just my opinion,but i see reason (play the best to be the best) in your own and that's possibly a reason kidney doesn't not call him up. A hatrick against full strength Llanelli aint easy though!;)

But Horgan ahead of him is just baffling! I don't think experince is enough of an argument Bowe (32 caps), Trimble (29), and Kearney(25) should be plenty of experince at this stage in the back 3.

profitius

If Ireland had the Welsh squad Shane Williams would never have gotten a game.

CouchSmart

As in Ireland + Wales were one squad or as in Deccie was coaching Wales?

irishbucsfan

CouchSmart wrote: »

As in Ireland + Wales were one squad or as in Deccie was coaching Wales?

Either.

People can say that Fionn Carr shouldn't be picked because he plays at an inferior level, but surely the best solution would be to call him up for this series and let him train with Fitzy/Earls/Trimble/Murphy and at least give him the chance to show what he's worth during the two weeks they're training together?

We can say "Oh he hasn't played at the same level as the other players" but he's been the top scoring Irish rugby player over the last 2 years, so surely it'd be worth picking one extra player to see how he compares on the training pitch at least?

I dunno how Kidney's mind works some times. Here's a young guy who's scoring tries for fun who made the decision to turn down the opportunity to go abroad for more money so that he could remain within the IRFU, and he's been snubbed. If he hasn't been selected by this time next year he should take the money and start scoring those tries for fun abroad. It worked for Tommy Bowe.

LeeroyJones

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Either.

People can say that Fionn Carr shouldn't be picked because he plays at an inferior level, but surely the best solution would be to call him up for this series and let him train with Fitzy/Earls/Trimble/Murphy and at least give him the chance to show what he's worth during the two weeks they're training together?

We can say "Oh he hasn't played at the same level as the other players" but he's been the top scoring Irish rugby player over the last 2 years, so surely it'd be worth picking one extra player to see how he compares on the training pitch at least?

I dunno how Kidney's mind works some times. Here's a young guy who's scoring tries for fun who made the decision to turn down the opportunity to go abroad for more money so that he could remain within the IRFU, and he's been snubbed. If he hasn't been selected by this time next year he should take the money and start scoring those tries for fun abroad. It worked for Tommy Bowe.

Very fair comment, but to look at the situation from another angle.

Come the WC2011 we will be selecting 14 backs for Carr to get in

3 of whom will be scrum halves.... 11 spots remain
3 of whom will need to be able to play out half...... 8 spots remain
Top tryscorer or not he won't leapfrog D'arcy, BOD, Fitzgerald, Earls, Bowe, Kearney or G Murphy..... 1 spot remains

So who gets the nod for the one spot, well Kidney seems to be saying to J Murphy, Trimble & Duffy to go out and fight it out amongst the 3 of you. Perhaps the fact that Carr is not as versatile has played against him.
Personally I feel Trimble is the best of the lot and while Carr could well be a better winger than Murphy - Murphy offers cover for more positions

irishbucsfan

LeeroyJones wrote: »

Very fair comment, but to look at the situation from another angle.

Come the WC2011 we will be selecting 14 backs for Carr to get in

3 of whom will be scrum halves.... 11 spots remain
3 of whom will need to be able to play out half...... 8 spots remain
Top tryscorer or not he won't leapfrog D'arcy, BOD, Fitzgerald, Earls, Bowe, Kearney or G Murphy..... 1 spot remains

So who gets the nod for the one spot, well Kidney seems to be saying to J Murphy, Trimble & Duffy to go out and fight it out amongst the 3 of you. Perhaps the fact that Carr is not as versatile has played against him.
Personally I feel Trimble is the best of the lot and while Carr could well be a better winger than Murphy - Murphy offers cover for more positions

Fair enough, but why not just use larger squads until February to let everyone have their chance to step up?

Alex Ferguson was interviewed yesterday and he said that if you give young people the opportunity they'll surprise you. I feel like there's some guys here who aren't being given a fair shot.

If you looked at Fionn Carr two years ago and said: "This guy is going to be the top try scorer in Irish rugby over the next two years," it would be tough to find anyone who would believe you. If you said, "This guy is going to be the top try scorer in Irish rugby over the next two years and he won't make a single Irish squad," noone would believe you.

profitius

CouchSmart wrote: »

As in Ireland + Wales were one squad or as in Deccie was coaching Wales?

If they had the Welsh squad only I ment.

I think sometimes Irish coaches can be a little too conservative for their own good. Shane Williams is poor in defense for international standards but he more than makes up for it in other areas.

Just like Ireland adapted defensively to Stringer and ROG playing togethar the Irish team could easily adapt to Carrs weaknesses by getting other players to help him out.

danthefan

profitius wrote: »

If Ireland had the Welsh squad Shane Williams would never have gotten a game.

I would say this is correct.

outwest

danthefan wrote: »

I would say this is correct.

i agree dan, but dont get used to me agreeing with u. :rolleyes:

outwest

thehighground wrote: »

Some people here who claim to be in the know said he wasn't. Turning down the opportunity to play Heineken Cup rugby could be interpreted as a lack of ambition.

lack of ambition i call it loyalty. connacht gave him a chance, he out playing all the munster wingers at this moment in time, he walk on to a wing position at munster

danthefan

outwest wrote: »

lack of ambition i call it loyalty. connacht gave him a chance, he out playing all the munster wingers at this moment in time, he walk on to a wing position at munster

My god. Do you actually think about some of this stuff before you write it?

Goodluck2me

thehighground wrote: »

So none of the provinces were interested in Carr then? Johne Murphy had a choice of province, getting offers of employment from Leinster & Munster (according to an interview with him in the Irish Times) so its not as if they were not looking for wingers!

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Carr was approached by major English clubs two years running AFAIK

He was approached by 3 top class English Premiership clubs and also Melbourne Reds Franchise and choose to stick with Connacht as he felt they were going somewhere.

One point which people seems to be missing here regarding versatility is that EVERY other player in the ireland back line is versatile so we don't need Carr to be. For example if Carr starts on the wing with Kearney and Bowe15 & 11, Earls and Wallace on the bench, there is no scenario where Carr would need to be versatile.

Drico injured, Bowe/Earls to 13 and Earls on.
Darcy Injured - Wallace on
Kearney Injured - Earls to full back etc.

The squad is packed with versatility and no specialists, and I actually thought that used to go against Earls but as it happens it's probably one of the reasons he's in the squad now so regularly.

danthefan

Alright, the team I'd like to see against SA/NZ after seeing the HEC:

Kearney
Bowe
BOD
D'Arcy
Fitzgerald
Sexton
Reddan (with Boss to come on after 55/60 mins)
Heaslip
Ferris/SOB
Wallace/SOB (with SOB definitely being in the team somewhere, Wallace or Ferris to drop out)
DOC
Toner
Buckley/Ross
Best
Healy

Stev_o

danthefan wrote: »

Alright, the team I'd like to see against SA/NZ after seeing the HEC:

Kearney
Bowe
BOD
D'Arcy
Fitzgerald
Sexton
Reddan (with Boss to come on after 55/60 mins)
Heaslip
Ferris/SOB
Wallace/SOB (with SOB definitely being in the team somewhere, Wallace or Ferris to drop out)
DOC
Toner
Buckley/Ross
Best
Healy

High risk capping Toner against NZ and SA. I know the alternative is MOD but still it's a gamble.

jolley123

danthefan wrote: »

Alright, the team I'd like to see against SA/NZ after seeing the HEC:

Kearney
Bowe
BOD
D'Arcy
Fitzgerald
Sexton
Reddan (with Boss to come on after 55/60 mins)
Heaslip
Ferris/SOB
Wallace/SOB (with SOB definitely being in the team somewhere, Wallace or Ferris to drop out)
DOC
Toner
Buckley/Ross
Best
Healy

I think that will be the team more or less. Fitzgerald would be the only one i would be unsure about, i don't think Kidney will want to throw him into the SA game starting; i would think he'd be on the bench. As for Toner, i think both coaches are seeing his potential.