214th Merseyside Derby - 17/10. KO 1.30PM

rossie1977

in woys first season with fulham, he managed to only pick up 9 points from the first 13 league games and was knocked out of the fa cup on pens by a division 2 outfit (sound familiar)

i wonder does the liverpool board have the patience like the fulham one did

That_Guy

Jamie Redknapp: I wish you were still playing for Liverpool.

LuckyLloyd

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Jesus,

I was like :eek:,

The Everton fans were like :pac: and

The Liverpool fans were like :mad: and

The new owners were like

And Roy was like

Instant dismissal

eZe^

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Pellegrini.

Fantastic manager, but would the Liverpool supporters be willing to give him a season or more to stamp his style on the game. He'd need at least one summer transfer window to make any personal impression on the team, because no offence, at the moment it's a very very mediocre squad with a smattering of quality.

d22ontour

eZe^ wrote: »

If Roy gets sacked, who do you honestly expect to replace him?

They will have a far better chance of getting a top manager now than when Hodgson took over.Isn't there a clause in his contract which effectively makes him a stop gap if new owners come in ?

ctrl-alt-delete

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Jesus,

I was like :eek:,

The Everton fans were like :pac: and

The Liverpool fans were like :mad: and

The new owners were like

And Roy was like

Instant dismissal

That's brought a smile to my face

flahavaj

eZe^ wrote: »

Fantastic manager, but would the Liverpool supporters be willing to give him a season or more to stamp his style on the game. He'd need at least one summer transfer window to make any personal impression on the team, because no offence, at the moment it's a very very mediocre squad with a smattering of quality.

Really thats an argument you could use against any managerial suggestion.

You asked for an available replacement - Pellegrini is available, more than up to managing a big club as he proved at Madrid where he was treated like sh*t and a far better prospect than small-time-Roy - Pelegrini definitely fits the bill.

That_Guy

Where's Roy's interview?

whatawaster

eZe^ wrote: »

Fantastic manager, but would the Liverpool supporters be willing to give him a season or more to stamp his style on the game. He'd need at least one summer transfer window to make any personal impression on the team, because no offence, at the moment it's a very very mediocre squad with a smattering of quality.

I'd be willing to give Roy a chance, if he were willing to employ tactics designed to win football matches.

I'd be more willing to give him a chance if he didn't seem so set on replacing a young squad with 28/29/30 year olds.

We have no future under Hodgson. If Pellegrini (who i believe is a fantastic manager) can show he's willing to change those two things, then i'll have plenty of patience

applehunter

Liverpool were just awful.

They never matched Evertons intensity.

Mr Alan

rossie1977 wrote: »

in woys first season with fulham, he managed to only pick up 9 points from the first 13 league games and was knocked out of the fa cup on pens by a division 2 outfit (sound familiar)

i wonder does the liverpool board have the patience like the fulham one did

And maybe one day we'll scale the lofty heights of seventh? no thanks. He wasn't good enough before he got the job, he ain't good enough now. He is the hangover from a regime which is no longer present. A speedy parting of ways will be best for both parties I think

MonkeyTennis

does anyone care?

Who didnt expect this?

We have bad players.

We need Dalglish. Roy is a good tactician. He loves football. Hes knows football. What we need now is inspiration not formation

That_Guy

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

does anyone care?

I'm sure Liverpool fans care.

Who didnt expect this?

A derby game, off field matters going in Liverpool's favour, a fresh start. If you can't get motivated for a game like that then there's something seriously wrong there.

Leiva

Bye Roy please don't cry .
It's down to your tactics.
And the players you buy.


Continue someone ..

K-9

Kirby wrote: »

I know! Being magnanimous in defeat? WTF like? Why didn't he scowl and sulk and throw a hissy fit!?1 Rafa would have......

He doesn't seem to get Liverpool, Rafa, for all his faults did.

He's reminding me more and more of Roy Evans, except without the attacking football.

shotamoose

daithijjj wrote: »

2 years of no investment in the team is coming home to roost in a big way. It started last season and has gathered pace. Mourinho could be managing this team, wouldnt make a blind bit of difference with the maxi's of this world. Rubbish players and no investment is the crux of it.

Hodgson isnt helping but the lack of talent left in the squad didnt start 2 months ago.

You're right about disinvestment in the squad, but we still shouldn't be anywhere near the position we are. He's not getting anything like the best out of the resources available to him.

eZe^

flahavaj wrote: »

Really thats an argument you could use against any managerial suggestion.

You asked for an available replacement - Pellegrini is available, more than up to managing a big club as he proved at Madrid where he was treated like sh*t and a far better prospect than small-time-Roy - Pelegrini definitely fits the bill.

My point wasn't that Liverpool can't get Pellegrini, but that if they do then they should be patient with him. Otherwise you'll just be setting yourself up for many short term disappointing appointments.

K-9

daithijjj wrote: »

2 years of no investment in the team is coming home to roost in a big way. It started last season and has gathered pace. Mourinho could be managing this team, wouldnt make a blind bit of difference with the maxi's of this world. Rubbish players and no investment is the crux of it.

Hodgson isnt helping but the lack of talent left in the squad didnt start 2 months ago.

Especially when you loan out one of the few real talents you have, Acquilani and don't even play his replacement in the correct position.

As for the team, Roy hasn't added to it. Cole is as bad as Maxi, both seem past it, but they were frees, risky ones. I'd allow him Poulsen even because you just can't replace Masch just like that.

That_Guy

eZe^ wrote: »

My point wasn't that Liverpool can't get Pellegrini, but that if they do then they should be patient with him. Otherwise you'll just be setting yourself up for many short term disappointing appointments.

Case in point... Newcastle.

flahavaj

eZe^ wrote: »

My point wasn't that Liverpool can't get Pellegrini, but that if they do then they should be patient with him. Otherwise you'll just be setting yourself up for many short term disappointing appointments.

Oh I know. My point was that no matter who the next manager is they'll have to be patient to a certain extent.

whatawaster

Can Pellegrini speak English?

argosy2006

flahavaj wrote: »

Oh I know. My point was that no matter who the next manager is they'll have to be patient to a certain extent.

exactly, i'd give roy till xmas,,

flahavaj

whatawaster wrote: »

Can Pellegrini speak English?

Can Dalglish? :pac:

Not sure re Pellegrini actually. Obviously it would be preferable if he did but Ancelotti's was pretty bad when he arrived at Chelsea, I'm sure he wouldn't have been the only manager who was successful despite having a poor grasp of the language initially.

It shouldn't be a deal breaker anyway.

Mental Mickey

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

does anyone care?

Who didnt expect this?

We have bad players.

We need Dalglish. Roy is a good tactician. He loves football. Hes knows football. What we need now is inspiration not formation

We don't need Dalglish.

mosstin

whatawaster wrote: »

Can Pellegrini speak English?

Probably enough to say no if the job's offered to him!

flahavaj

argosy2006 wrote: »

exactly, i'd give roy till xmas,,

There's being patient and then theres just being stupid I suppose.

daithijjj

shotamoose wrote: »

You're right about disinvestment in the squad, but we still shouldn't be anywhere near the position we are. He's not getting anything like the best out of the resources available to him.

Of course. Im not giving him a free pass. But lets face it, did you expect much from a right hand side consisting of carra and maxi?, a midfielder in lucas who got destroyed by a northampton midfield?. The lack of 'ability' in the squad is something thats created over time.

I think im right in saying that we have made somewhere in the region of a profit of 10mil since roy arrived. You cant progress or change with that.

argosy2006

flahavaj wrote: »

There's being patient and then theres just being stupid I suppose.

sack him today or give him till xmas,
decision needs to be made, to back him or sack him
thats my point,
dont back him today, just to sack him in 2 weeks,
he gets time or he doesnt, black and white

eagle eye

flahavaj wrote: »

There's being patient and then theres just being stupid I suppose.

So you reckon that you know enough about Roy Hodgson as Liverpool manager to decide already that things will never work out?

Do you want me to give you a list of managers you would have sacked after 7 games?

daithijjj

K-9 wrote: »

Especially when you loan out one of the few real talents you have, Acquilani and don't even play his replacement in the correct position.

As for the team, Roy hasn't added to it. Cole is as bad as Maxi, both seem past it, but they were frees, risky ones. I'd allow him Poulsen even because you just can't replace Masch just like that.

In fairness, i think its debatable whether or not roy had much say in aquilani. Pretty sure aquilani said he had conversations with him about the season and 2 days later he was in juve.

Im happy to give meireles and poulsen more time, never played in the prem, takes a while to get used to. I expect more from lucas at this stage. Like you say, cole cost nothing except wages. Maxi and jova the same, ngog and soto 2 mil between them or something like that. The lack of investment as a whole is starting to dig in beyond a core of 5/6 players imo.

x in the city

I hope the owners are happy with their new investment because its non-refundable.. ;)

whatawaster

eagle eye wrote: »

So you reckon that you know enough about Roy Hodgson as Liverpool manager to decide already that things will never work out?

Do you want me to give you a list of managers you would have sacked after 7 games?

8 League games. 1 League Cup game. 6 Europa League matches. So 15 games. Not one good performance.

SantryRed

whatawaster wrote: »

8 League games. 1 League Cup game. 6 Europa League matches. So 15 games. Not one good performance.

First game of the season was pretty good.

x in the city

x in the city wrote: »

its non-refundable.. ;)

.

LOL

flahavaj

eagle eye wrote: »

So you reckon that you know enough about Roy Hodgson as Liverpool manager to decide already that things will never work out?

Do you want me to give you a list of managers you would have sacked after 7 games?

15 games. He was never good enough for Liverpool FC in the first place. He still thinks he's at Fulham. But it doesn't surprise me that yet again you're overrating mediocrity, nor does it surprise me that you pick me up on that point in particular out of the dozens of people that realise he's in waaay above huis head. There hasn't been even one little seed of optimism you could find in any of those 15 games, its been their worst spell performance wise I've seen in nearly 20 years.

micks

eagle eye wrote: »

So you reckon that you know enough about Roy Hodgson as Liverpool manager to decide already that things will never work out?

Do you want me to give you a list of managers you would have sacked after 7 games?

Yes please do.

population

Watching Aquilani on Rai at the moment. Just made a comment about how much he is starting to enjoy his football at Juve. If he hits the form that we know he is capable of and decides to agitate for a permanent move, then that is yet another black mark against Woy

Anyone watching Blackpool atm. Owning City.

There's the difference a manager can make

eagle eye

flahavaj wrote: »

15 games. He was never good enough for Liverpool FC in the first place. He still thinks he's at Fulham. But it doesn't surprise me that yet again you're overrating mediocrity, nor does it surprise me that you pick me up on that point in particular out of the dozens of people that realise he's in waaay above huis head. There hasn't been even one little seed of optimism you could find in any of those 15 games, its been their worst spell performance wise I've seen in nearly 20 years.

He took over a side that finished 7th last year. They've lost Mascherano now, whats an acceptable finishing position for Liverpool fc in your estimation?

Dont be at yourself

Dunno how anybody can defend Roy. Whatever your views on Rafa, the owners or the players left behind, we are not the second worst team in the Premiership.

Even if we accept that we overachieved last season with 7th place, we should not be languishing in 19th place with a -6 goal difference and losses to Everton, Man Utd, Blackpool and Northampton already under our belt in mid October. The very least we should be aiming for is top 10. The very least.

Roy's tactics are for a bottom-half side. Sit tight, stand off, lump it up to a big striker and hope to nick the odd 1-0 win, or settle for an away draw. They work for Fulham, but they don't work for Liverpool.

The problem is with Woy, we only win the ball back on the edge of our own 18 yard box, and by the time our plodding midfield get it up to the attacking third, there are two banks of four closing the game out. And with our fullbacks and midfield sitting back, it's basically a 4 on 8, and we haven't a chance. We're much better at winning the ball in the attacking third and quickly turning the opposition around. Standing off was never going to get us anywhere.

me-skywalker

Torres needs to get out of that club he's been ruined. Shade of palyer he was years ago! Rafa's insistence to play him with niggles has cost him 2 years of fulltime playing. He's only been sporadically palying and because Liverool depended on him so much they inevitably suffered.

micks

daithijjj wrote: »

Of course. Im not giving him a free pass. But lets face it, did you expect much from a right hand side consisting of carra and maxi?, a midfielder in lucas who got destroyed by a northampton midfield?. The lack of 'ability' in the squad is something thats created over time.

I think im right in saying that we have made somewhere in the region of a profit of 10mil since roy arrived. You cant progress or change with that.

He cant have it every way. If the players are not good enough then why not come out and say that and make changes with younger players that have potential its not as if results can get any worse. If as has been said he's made the changes and the team needs time to gel and get used to his ideas etc then why does he change things for the cup games? Shirley if they need time a few extra games together would help. having the team go out week after week and look more and more clueless is sickening.
Its great now that the squad are crap and Rafa bought them and its not Roy's fault. 15 Games consistently playing with relegation form. Even with a crap manager like Rafa and a team that didnt want to play for him performed better than this :rolleyes:

flahavaj

eagle eye wrote: »

He took over a side that finished 7th last year. They've lost Mascherano now, whats an acceptable finishing position for Liverpool fc in your estimation?

They've gained Meireles. They should still be good enough for at least 7th IMO, which as I've said earlier would mean a good sustained challenge for the CL spots.

Whats not acceptable is

-15 games without one decent display.
-Literally no cause for optimism on the pitch based on current displays.
-Sitting back at home and allowing teams that they should be setting out to beat come at them.
-Playing not to lose rather than playing for a win constantly
-Neglecting to press teams in the opposition half at all
-Signing dross like Konchesky and Poulsen
-Making an admittedly genuinely decent signing like Meireles only to inexplicably play him on the wing or as a second striker
-Letting Aquilani go out on loan when the team is starved of quality in the middle of the park
-Frankly embarrassing comments in the press
-Acting like the best buddy of your hated rivals' manager who openly speaks of his hatred for your club
- Generally bringing a smalltime mentality to one of teh biggets clu8bs in the world

Apart from all that he's been savage.:rolleyes:

Mr Alan

If the players are as bad as people are making out how come a lot challenged for the league a couple of seasons ago, and the majority challenged for a top 4 place last season?

eagle eye

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Dunno how anybody can defend Roy. Whatever your views on Rafa, the owners or the players left behind, we are not the second worst team in the Premiership.

Even if we accept that we overachieved last season with 7th place, we should not be languishing in 19th place with a -6 goal difference and losses to Everton, Man Utd, Blackpool and Northampton already under our belt in mid October. The very least we should be aiming for is top 10. The very least.

Roy's tactics are for a bottom-half side. Sit tight, stand off, lump it up to a big striker and hope to nick the odd 1-0 win, or settle for an away draw. They work for Fulham, but they don't work for Liverpool.

The problem is with Woy, we only win the ball back on the edge of our own 18 yard box, and by the time our plodding midfield get it up to the attacking third, there are two banks of four closing the game out. And with our fullbacks and midfield sitting back, it's basically a 4 on 8, and we haven't a chance. We're much better at winning the ball in the attacking third and quickly turning the opposition around. Standing off was never going to get us anywhere.

Thats not his tactics.

He is changing a lot of things. The first of which is the zonal play that Liverpool fc used under Benitez. His teams don't play like that, none of the other top teams play like that. There are going to be teething problems when changing that.

His system is a single unit system that moves up and down the field without losing shape, its all about controlling possession, its very methodical. Its going to take time to get the players used to that system.

Problem is the fans have no patience at all these days. They gave Benitez all the time in the world and would have given him forever but now that he is gone they want instant results or its not good enough.

flahavaj

eagle eye wrote: »

Thats not his tactics.

He is changing a lot of things. The first of which is the zonal play that Liverpool fc used under Benitez. His teams don't play like that, none of the other top teams play like that. There are going to be teething problems when changing that.

His system is a single unit system that moves up and down the field without losing shape, its all about controlling possession, its very methodical. Its going to take time to get the players used to that system.

Problem is the fans have no patience at all these days. They gave Benitez all the time in the world and would have given him forever but now that he is gone they want instant results or its not good enough.

They haven't done this at all in any of the games so far.

How can you say he's trying to "control possession" when they have game in game out lumped the ball forward from the back. Everton had over 60% possession first half today FFS.

herbieflowers

eagle eye wrote: »

His system is a single unit system that moves up and down the field without losing shape, its all about controlling possession, its very methodical. Its going to take time to get the players used to that system.

I agree with your post but the above isn't something unique to Roy's tactics. All teams aim to play like this. If you don't play a compact game, ie 10-15 or so yards between the lines, then you're set up to be beat.

eagle eye

flahavaj wrote: »

They haven't done this at all in any of the games so far.

How can you say he's trying to "control possession" when they have game in game out lumped the ball forward from the back. Everton had over 60% possession first half today FFS.

Thats what he is trying to implement but players are struggling to get to grips with it right now. Changing from a zonal system to a possession system is about as difficult as it gets I'd imagine.

daithijjj

micks wrote: »

He cant have it every way. If the players are not good enough then why not come out and say that and make changes with younger players that have potential its not as if results can get any worse. If as has been said he's made the changes and the team needs time to gel and get used to his ideas etc then why does he change things for the cup games? Shirley if they need time a few extra games together would help. having the team go out week after week and look more and more clueless is sickening.
Its great now that the squad are crap and Rafa bought them and its not Roy's fault. 15 Games consistently playing with relegation form. Even with a crap manager like Rafa and a team that didnt want to play for him performed better than this :rolleyes:

The squad IS generally pretty awful after the main big players. Losing mascherano just magnifies how bad this defence is. We were just as brutal in plenty of games last season, stoke, wigan, pompey etc etc.

Torres has taken a backward step, as has johnson, its not all roy hodgson, some of these players need to look in the mirror aswel.

flahavaj

eagle eye wrote: »

Thats what he is trying to implement but players are struggling to get to grips with it right now. Changing from a zonal system to a possession system is about as difficult as it gets I'd imagine.

If they're playing long balls forward with the regularity they have been then he's doing a really really bad job of transmitting that message to his players tbh.