214th Merseyside Derby - 17/10. KO 1.30PM

herbieflowers

daithijjj wrote: »

The squad IS generally pretty awful after the main big players. Losing mascherano just magnifies how bad this defence is. We were just as brutal in plenty of games last season, stoke, wigan, pompey etc etc.

Torres has taken a backward step, as has johnson, its not all roy hodgson, some of these players need to look in the mirror aswel.

I think the players need to shoulder some of the blame. And I don't believe that the quality isn't there. These guys are internationals! Meireles, Poulsen, Johnson, Cole, Jovanovic, etc.

Warper

me-skywalker wrote: »

Torres needs to get out of that club he's been ruined. Shade of palyer he was years ago! Rafa's insistence to play him with niggles has cost him 2 years of fulltime playing. He's only been sporadically palying and because Liverool depended on him so much they inevitably suffered.

Ya cant see Torres staying much longer though the thing is he is so short of confidence and has played so bad lately who will buy him. He is always injured and would be a very risky purchase for such a large outlay in fee and wages.

K-9

daithijjj wrote: »

In fairness, i think its debatable whether or not roy had much say in aquilani. Pretty sure aquilani said he had conversations with him about the season and 2 days later he was in juve.

Im happy to give meireles and poulsen more time, never played in the prem, takes a while to get used to. I expect more from lucas at this stage. Like you say, cole cost nothing except wages. Maxi and jova the same, ngog and soto 2 mil between them or something like that. The lack of investment as a whole is starting to dig in beyond a core of 5/6 players imo.

Yet the money was there for Mereiles a month later?

I'm not sure. That is money that could have been used to buy another decent striker to help Torres or better suited to the style of play, like a Zamora!

Dont be at yourself

eagle eye wrote: »

His system is a single unit system that moves up and down the field without losing shape, its all about controlling possession, its very methodical. Its going to take time to get the players used to that system.

Whatever way you dress it up, it's not working. When not in possession it amounts to two deep, rigid banks of four in complete isolation from Torres. It invites pressure. Working up the pitch without losing shape is a big ask for these players when our midfield can't pass the ball and when there is nobody ahead of the ball to push the opposition back. The team is being suffocated, and can only result in long balls or getting pressed and hurried out of possession.

Problem is the fans have no patience at all these days. They gave Benitez all the time in the world and would have given him forever but now that he is gone they want instant results or its not good enough.

We're 1/4 of the way into the season now. We've seen Roy play every type of opposition - from League 2 minnows, European ties, the derby, relegation contenders and championship favourites Arsenal and United. Two questions:

1. What, in those 14 or 15 games, has given you hope that Roy has a plan and will turn things around?

2. If things do continue as they are, at what point is it reasonable to call for his head? At Christmas, when Torres' agent will be touting him to every club in Europe? In March, when whoever comes in will need to work wonders to ensure PL football next year? In June, when we'll have a manager who hasn't worked with the players to spunk our transfer budget? Or do we just stick with him altogether and hope that he'll turn things around next season.

It's becoming clear that Woy has turned things around. He took a squad that finished 7th, even when ravaged with injury, with rock-bottom morale and luck and with contentious manager at war with the boardroom, and he's turned them around so they're only off the foot of the table due to goal difference.

eagle eye

herbieflowers wrote: »

I think the players need to shoulder some of the blame. And I don't believe that the quality isn't there. These guys are internationals! Meireles, Poulsen, Johnson, Cole, Jovanovic, etc.

You might want to give a better reason than that! Paul McShane is an international too.:D

daithijjj

K-9 wrote: »

Yet the money was there for Mereiles a month later?

I'm not sure. That is money that could have been used to buy another decent striker to help Torres or better suited to the style of play, like a Zamora!

I said the same as you are here half way through last season and i was laughed at by a fair few. I said torres needed cover, proper cover. If the money wasnt there id change formation and play dirk beside him but............

I think meireles money was released due to the impending money for mascherano, might be wrong.

8-10

First time I got a proper look at Seamas Coleman, looks very good that kid, can beat players and can tackle. Hopefully he gets a few more games like this under his belt, anyone know how bad Osman's ankle is?

eagle eye

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Whatever way you dress it up, it's not working. When not in possession it amounts to two deep, rigid banks of four in complete isolation from Torres. It invites pressure. Working up the pitch without losing shape is a big ask for these players when our midfield can't pass the ball and when there is nobody ahead of the ball to push the opposition back. The team is being suffocated, and can only result in long balls or getting pressed and hurried out of possession.



We're 1/4 of the way into the season now. We've seen Roy play every type of opposition - from League 2 minnows, European ties, the derby, relegation contenders and championship favourites Arsenal and United. Two questions:

1. What, in those 14 or 15 games, has given you hope that Roy has a plan and will turn things around?

2. If things do continue as they are, at what point is it reasonable to call for his head? At Christmas, when Torres' agent will be touting him to every club in Europe? In March, when whoever comes in will need to work wonders to ensure PL football next year? In June, when we'll have a manager who hasn't worked with the players to spunk our transfer budget? Or do we just stick with him altogether and hope that he'll turn things around next season.

It's becoming clear that Woy has turned things around. He took a squad that finished 7th, even when ravaged with injury, with rock-bottom morale and luck and with contentious manager at war with the boardroom, and he's turned them around so they're only off the foot of the table due to goal difference.

The only thing I have left to say on this matter right now is the following.

Liverpool are not playing well right now, thats quite clear. Roy Hodgson's biggest problem is that he has the balls to go and change everything and try and get them playing the football he wants them to play and knows will be very affective. It would have been easy for him to go there and try and use the system that was already in place. This cost Roy before when he was at Blackburn but Rovers didn't stick with him because the player power got rid of him. I know that Roy Hodgson given time will turn Liverpool fc around. He is hugely underrated by a lot of people.
If he is still there at Christmas I expect Liverpool to be flying. I said a couple of weeks ago that I'd expect them to be playing good football by November, thats not too far away now. I do hope it works out for Roy and for Liverpool fc because the future is very bright for them now with the new ownership.

Dont be at yourself

eagle eye wrote: »

The only thing I have left to say on this matter right now is the following.

Liverpool are not playing well right now, thats quite clear. Roy Hodgson's biggest problem is that he has the balls to go and change everything and try and get them playing the football he wants them to play and knows will be very affective. It would have been easy for him to go there and try and use the system that was already in place. This cost Roy before when he was at Blackburn but Rovers didn't stick with him because the player power got rid of him. I know that Roy Hodgson given time will turn Liverpool fc around. He is hugely underrated by a lot of people.
If he is still there at Christmas I expect Liverpool to be flying. I said a couple of weeks ago that I'd expect them to be playing good football by November, thats not too far away now. I do hope it works out for Roy and for Liverpool fc because the future is very bright for them now with the new ownership.

Really though, what about those two questions? Has anything from the 15 games so far been encouraging for you? And when can we start panicking if things don't pick up?

L'prof

eagle eye wrote: »

I said a couple of weeks ago that I'd expect them to be playing good football by November, thats not too far away now. I do hope it works out for Roy and for Liverpool fc because the future is very bright for them now with the new ownership.

I think it might just be too far for Hodgson though, especially under new ownership.

flahavaj

eagle eye wrote: »

The only thing I have left to say on this matter right now is the following.

Liverpool are not playing well right now, thats quite clear. Roy Hodgson's biggest problem is that he has the balls to go and change everything and try and get them playing the football he wants them to play and knows will be very affective. It would have been easy for him to go there and try and use the system that was already in place. This cost Roy before when he was at Blackburn but Rovers didn't stick with him because the player power got rid of him. I know that Roy Hodgson given time will turn Liverpool fc around. He is hugely underrated by a lot of people.
If he is still there at Christmas I expect Liverpool to be flying. I said a couple of weeks ago that I'd expect them to be playing good football by November, thats not too far away now. I do hope it works out for Roy and for Liverpool fc because the future is very bright for them now with the new ownership.

If there were even the tiniest signs over 15 games that Hodgson's new approach was in any way starting to have a positive effect on the team then you'd have a decent point.

But there hasn't AT ALL. They have been awful defensively and awful offensively. They look totally lost and all at sea, as does the manager.

Mr Alan

You expect us to be playing good football by Nov? That's less than two weeks away and we have no made ANY improvement in the last few months?! what possibly makes ya think it'll all change within a couple of weeks?!

Kirby

:eek: His post match interview is shocking. I'm all for giving time. Managers need time. And lots of it. Changing this early is a mistake.


But he needs to stop talking rubbish in interviews.

Leiva

Mr Alan wrote: »

You expect us to be playing good football by Nov? That's less than two weeks away and we have no made ANY improvement in the last few months?! what possibly makes ya think it'll all change within a couple of weeks?!

Mr Alan ,
Where the hell have you been during this weeks saga ?

Rumour has it you really are Christian Purslow hence your absenteeism

Mr Alan

mixednuts wrote: »

Mr Alan ,
Where the hell have you been during this weeks saga ?

Rumour has it you really are Christian Purslow hence your absenteeism

I've been around, you need to pay more attention

PiE

In the BBC interview, he sounds pretty happy with the performance. lol.

x in the city

PiE wrote: »

In the BBC interview, he sounds pretty happy with the performance. lol.

for Evertonians it cant get much better, seriosuly what did pool fans expect hiring hodgson.. it was a rash decision.

smiliing at moyes at the end was epic stuff after a drubbing

x in the city

Mr Alan wrote: »

I've been around, you need to pay more attention

alan is always around, i think he also is subscribing to all my posts

tsk...

Mr Alan

x in the city wrote: »

for Evertonians it cant get much better, seriosuly what did pool fans expect hiring hodgson.. it was a rash decision.

smiliing at moyes at the end was epic stuff after a drubbing

Roy is more interested in being friends with everyone. It's embarrassing.

flahavaj

The blissful smile of a man oblivious to his own incompetence.

super_furry

Mr Alan wrote: »

Roy is more interested in being friends with everyone. It's embarrassing.

Any manager who start's their career at Liverpool by hoping Alex Ferguson 'will forgive him' is doomed to fail from the start.

x in the city

Mr Alan wrote: »

Roy is more interested in being friends with everyone. It's embarrassing.

have to agree, It was pretty weak, Pool need a total clear out. They were at their best when Alonso and Masch were on fire.

Everton played resonably well for most of their games this season, apart from Newcastle and a few others, but Pool have been bad for most of theirs.

Roy is clearly not suitable for this job, he should be sacked sooner rather than later, no point firing him in Januray like...

missingtime

Mr Alan wrote: »

Roy is more interested in being friends with everyone. It's embarrassing.

See my sig...

x in the city

flahavaj wrote: »

The blissful smile of a man oblivious to his own incompetence.

lol

wayy too innocent for a cut throat job at the helm of LFC

Professional Griefer

Q ''Is crisis too strong a word.....?''

Roy - ''No..''.

He seems happy enough. Hilarious stuff.

x in the city

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

Q ''Is crisis too strong a word.....?''

Roy - ''No..''.

He seems happy enough. Hilarious stuff.

maybe he thinks he is managing fulham...

BERBA

x in the city wrote: »

maybe he thinks he is managing fulham...

he wishes he was now , fulham are a better side than the pool

Xavi6

On the John Lennon statue at Liverpool Airport it says "Above us only sky".

Apparently someone has written "Below us only West Ham".

flahavaj

flahavaj wrote: »

The blissful smile of a man oblivious to his own incompetence.

I think he's going into meltdown. The pressure is immense on him atm.

Imagine Fergie or Wenger smiling that after a Derby defeat. Not a chance.

Mister men

Well done to Everton deserved the result and should have been 4 or 5.
If they played like that every week you would be challanging for Champions league places.

Hail 2 Da Thief

Edit: nevermind wrong thread

SlickRic

as usual, this synopisis of the game is a chance for me to vent a bit, so forgive me if it's a bit of a rabble.

firstly *through gritted teeth*...well done Everton. on your first half showing alone you deserved it. you wanted it more, you were at us, you were pressing high up the pitch; everything you want from your team, especially in a derby match.

Liverpool started as they always seem to start these days - laboured and inviting the opposition onto us at will. we were f*cking defending on our 18 yard line from the first 5 mins. retarded stuff.

Everton took full advantage, a fair dues to them. Arteta was solid and simple in his execution, Cahill was busy with that spark of occasional quality, and Yakubu was the player we all like to think he could be; motivated and an absolute nightmare.

really, the difference was how the two managers set their teams out. one to go at the opposition, one to sit, soak and pinch goals. Liverpool used to be the former, but not anymore. and the fact that Roy was happy with the performance shows that the team is doing exactly as it's being asked to do - keeping it's shape at all costs, soaking up pressure and trying to break - though we've possibly the slowest counter-attack in the history of modern football.

Cahill's finish was a beaut, and Arteta's was too, although it was obviously very dodgy and should not have stood. but i can't begrudge Everton a 2 goal win, no matter how much i'd like to; they were worth it. and for them, this could be the springboard to the kind of run which they seem to start on later than they should every year.

Liverpool just had no imagination. Distin was probably MOTM, but he had an easy afternoon; i mean, it's relatively easy to defend against a man as isolated as Nando was. N'Gog has to begin starting games, and Maxi must be dropped never to be seen again. Babel, as inconsistent as he tends to be, cannot possibly offer less than the Argentinian is at this moment.

people will point to Torres as disinterested. but that's deflecting the issue. he has zero service. nada. zip. you'd look as p*ssed as him if you had no service, virtually no support, and had balls launched in the air towards you more often than not, while being expected to perform miracles.

one thing, i must commend Stevie Gerrard. he is trying to show leadership this season in the way he plays. he's still quite the moan, but he's the one man who looks likely. i sincerely hope he can pull us through the mire, again.

and one final thing; i just can't see how Hodgson can stay long, after;

1) the performance; and
2) his public backing of the performance as a very good one.

he's cracking up, he really is.

and so am I.

x in the city

SlickRic wrote: »

as usual, this synopisis of the game is a chance for me to vent a bit, so forgive me if it's a bit of a rabble.

firstly *through gritted teeth*...well done Everton. on your first half showing alone you deserved it. you wanted it more, you were at us, you were pressing high up the pitch; everything you want from your team, especially in a derby match.

Liverpool started as they always seem to start these days - laboured and inviting the opposition onto us at will. we were f*cking defending on our 18 yard line from the forst 5 mins. retarded stuff.

Everton took full advantage, a fair dues to them. Arteta was solid and simple in his execution, Cahill was busy with that spark of occasional quality, and Yakubu was the player we all like to think he could be; motivated and an absolute nightmare.

really, the difference was how the two managers set their teams out. one to go at the opposition, one to sit, soak and pinch goals. Liverpool used to be the former, but not anymore. and the fact that Roy was happy with the performance shows that the team is doing exactly as it's being asked to do - keeping it's shape at all costs, soaking up pressure and trying to break - though we've possibly the slowest counter-attack in the history of modern football.

Cahill's finish was a beaut, and Arteta's was too, although it was obviously very dodgy and should not have stood. but i can't begrudge Everton a 2 goal win, no matter how much i'd like to; they were worth it. and for them, this could be the springboard to the kind of run which they seem to start on later than they should every year.

Liverpool just had no imagination. Distin was probably MOTM, but he had an easy afternoon; i mean, it's relatively easy to defend against a man as isolated as Nando was. N'Gog has to begin starting games, and Maxi must be dropped never to be seen again. Babel, as inconsistent as he tends to be, cannot possibly offer less than the Argentinian is at this moment.

people will point to Torres as disinterested. but that's deflecting the issue. he has zero service. nada. zip. you'd look as p*ssed as him if you had no service, virtually no support, and had balls launched in the air towards you more often than not, while being expected to perform miracles.

one thing, i must commend Stevie Gerrard. he is trying to show leadership this season in the way he plays. he's still quite the moan, but he's the one man who looks likely. i sincerely hope he can pull us through the mire, again.

and one final thing; i just can't see how Hodgson can stay long after;

1) the performance; and
2) his public backing of the performance as a very good one.

he's cracking up, he really is.

and so am I.

got that pretty much nailed on the head...!

jank

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I wouldn't want to waste my time tbh.

Ah yes, because you are wrong and thats your way out....:rolleyes:

mosstin

Xavi6 wrote: »

On the John Lennon statue at Liverpool Airport it says "Above us only sky".

Apparently someone has written "Below us only West Ham".

Been reading the Guardian have you?

citytillidie

Xavi6 wrote: »

On the John Lennon statue at Liverpool Airport it says "Above us only sky".

Apparently someone has written "Below us only West Ham".

Heard that 2 weeks ago when it was West Ham and Wolves

Xavi6

mosstin wrote: »

Been reading the Guardian have you?

Twitter

citytillidie wrote: »

Heard that 2 weeks ago when it was West Ham and Wolves

Who's have thought that an already quality joke could be improved?

Third_Echelon

Great win for Everton. Deserved the 3 points. A victory is all that more sweet when it's against the cross-town rivals :-)

G'wan the toffees!