General UFC Chit Chat/News

Lukker-

riffmongous wrote: »

If it's about levelling the playing field then Nick Newell should been given a TUE to allow him to use a mechanical claw

I dunno that club arm had plenty of advantages in grappling and submissions..

TUE for his opponents to be allowed to remove their arm below the elbow perhaps :pac:

Depp

the tue is completely fair imo, theres a reason youre intestines are so long and missing half of them is obviously going to make it more difficult to absorb fluid, and its not a thing that can be easily abused, theres a big difference between having stomach problems and missing half of it, no point not allowing him to rehydrate properly its just not safe

Lukker-

Yup, although I don't think he can rely on it. He should move up to WW after this fight (if he loses which I think he will) and prob try and limit his cut to maybe 10 pounds. But he's earned this title shot and I think it'd be unfair to take it away on the grounds that he can't re-hydrate the same way his opponents can.

He's a very big guy for LW anyways so the move up shouldn't be hard.

Pulse8

But could it not be argued then that if Cowboy finds it hard to re-hydrate after cutting weight then he should fight in a higher weight class where he doesn't have to cut as much / any


EDIT - was typing whilst post above was posted

Depp

True, but theres a difference between this and someone cutting more than they should, which i dont believe is the case with cowboy, on the other hand though I'd imagine 50 feet of intestines has a fair bit of weight to it so it could be an advantage that way, still though thats a fairly debilitating injury at the same time id say the disadvantages far outweigh whatever advantages it gives

ASOT

Rewatching UFC 165 what an event that was. Feel so bad for Khabibs knees being made of cling film he absolutely murdered Healy.

Ush1

I think Cowboy being able to use IVs is ridiculous.

Depp

Ush1 wrote: »

I think Cowboy being able to use IVs is ridiculous.

why though? hes medically unable to absorb water orally at the same rate as a healthy person, be dangerous to not let him have it

darced

This post has been deleted.

Lukker-

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Post fight tests are next to pointless, only someone with no experience with PED's would be taking them close to fight week.

PED's are most effective before or during a camp, allowing yourself to push yourself harder in training and recover quicker. They would be long gone out of his system at that stage.

If he was caught using an IV before a random drug test before the fight, then you could begin to ask questions.

Ush1

Depp wrote: »

why though? hes medically unable to absorb water orally at the same rate as a healthy person, be dangerous to not let him have it

Yeah but he doesn't have to cut weight. As has been pointed out, lots of people have natural disadvantages of various forms.

Devastator

Depp wrote: »

why though? hes medically unable to absorb water orally at the same rate as a healthy person, be dangerous to not let him have it

Are there medical tests that prove this?

Depp

Devastator wrote: »

Are there medical tests that prove this?

not that i have access to anyway, but Id assume the usada had tests done before granting the tue, plus hes missing half his intestines thats obviously going to affect absorption rates its simple biology

Devastator

Depp wrote: »

not that i have access to anyway, but Id assume the usada had tests done before granting the tue, plus hes missing half his intestines thats obviously going to affect absorption rates its simple biology

haha Im not asking if you had specific details, I just meant in general are there any medical tests that can be done to test someones body for water absorption as I've not heard of 1. There seems to be some confusion over what Cowboy lost, I've seen a few posts saying 1/2 his intestines but according to the link I posted earlier its 1/2 his stomach and only 6" of his intestine which is actually pretty minimal.

Mellor

Saipanne wrote: »

Which would be absurd. My way is slightly more normal.

But your way results in a unfair advantage. That's fairly obvious.

So, as it stands Cowboy gets the advantage. Fair enough.

How does he get an advantage? Be specific?

Because research suggests that IVs alone are not significantly more effective than oral dehydration. Oral is the medically preferred method.

The advantage comes when you can hydrate orally and via IV at the same time. Cowboy can't do that.

Devastator wrote: »

I don't understand the asthma comparison at all tbh. IVs are just purely fluid right with no medication whereas its asthma medication. Am I missing something?

IV rehydration is a medical procedure.

I bet there are a lot of fighters who are looking into excuses with their digestive systems to say they need to use IVs too, so it won't be long until its being overly abused aswell. There are people who suffer from slow digestion or slow emptying of the stomach, they could argue they're not able to orally hydrate because they can not take in enough fliuds properly

My earlier comparison was basically to say if nobody's allowed TRT because its hard to determine who actually needs it, then its the same as IV use and it should be banned for everyone.

"Slow digestion" is meaninglessly vague. That won't work imo.
Cowboy is missing half his guts, that's easily verified.

Depp

Devastator wrote: »

haha Im not asking if you had specific details, I just meant in general are there any medical tests that can be done to test someones body for water absorption as I've not heard of 1. There seems to be some confusion over what Cowboy lost, I've seen a few posts saying 1/2 his intestines but according to the link I posted earlier its 1/2 his stomach and only 6" of his intestine which is actually pretty minimal.

ah right i see, my bad! dunno really surely some way of testing it could check the concentration of the blood id imagine, didnt see that now few stories going around alright, one im going on is his sherdog interview, said in that hed lost half his stomach and 50 foot of intestines which would have a huge effect if true, seemingly usada are very strict with granting tues so id imagine its necesery however much hes lost

Devastator

Mellor wrote: »

IV rehydration is a medical procedure.


"Slow digestion" is meaninglessly vague. That won't work imo.
Cowboy is missing half his guts, that's easily verified.

ok still dont understand your comparison between IVs(medical procedure) & Asthma medication. As I said before there seem to be different stories about how much of his intestines have been removed.

Depp wrote: »

ah right i see, my bad! dunno really surely some way of testing it could check the concentration of the blood id imagine, didnt see that now few stories going around alright, one im going on is his sherdog interview, said in that hed lost half his stomach and 50 foot of intestines which would have a huge effect if true, seemingly usada are very strict with granting tues so id imagine its necesery however much hes lost

Blood tests might be able to tell, I dunno though. I've to goto see a blood specialist next week, I'll try and remember to ask about it. Definitely huge difference between 6" and 50 foot as I've been told by girls in the past :eek::o At this stage to me it just sounds like its a someones opinion that Cowboy can't absorb as much water as other people and he's going along with it, don't blame him for that. Obviously if it is something that can be tested & proven than thats the end of discussion but I still think we'll see fighters in future come up with excuses for an exemption.

Mellor

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

How can he use this to beat the tests? Genuine question.
It's known he'll be using the IV at a specfic time. He'll be tested before hand it, leading up to the fight. Then again pre and post fight samples.

Importantly, even if there was a way to infuse a hypothetical 100% undetectable PED post weigh-in. Then it doesn't matter, it's still PED use. RDA or anyone else can use that heat like that hypothetical undetectable PED if they wanted also.

Devastator wrote: »

ok still dont understand your comparison between IVs(medical procedure) & Asthma medication. As I said before there seem to be different stories about how much of his intestines have been removed

Asthma medicine helps you breath better. It's a banned PED.
People who have issues with their lungs can get a TUE to breath normally.
If Cerrone had asthma, and was given a TUE, would people be saying that RDA should be allowed to use asthma medicine for the fight too?


Ergo, it's the same as the IV situation. If Cerrone genuinely is missing a significance portion of his intestines. He should be afforded treatment to rehydrate just like everyone else.
Whether or not its genuine is up to USADA and his medical records.

At this stage to me it just sounds like its a someones opinion that Cowboy can't absorb as much water as other people and he's going along with it, don't blame him for that.

He's on record talking about his intestines being removed over 3 years ago. When he had complications before one of the fights. It's not a story that's just some out since the IV ban.
I imagine there's a medical record of what was done. If he is missing part of his intestines, then he can rehydrate as well, that's simply biology, its what they are for.

But I've no idea what was removed. That's a matter for his doctor and USADA. It definitely wasn't 50 feet though, that's for sure.

Devastator

Mellor wrote: »

Asthma medicine helps you breath better. It's a banned PED.
People who have issues with their lungs can get a TUE to breath normally.
If Cerrone had asthma, and was given a TUE, would people be saying that RDA should be allowed to use asthma medicine for the fight too?


Ergo, it's the same as the IV situation. If Cerrone genuinely is missing a significance portion of his intestines. He should be afforded treatment to rehydrate just like everyone else.
Whether or not its genuine is up to USADA and his medical records.


He's on record talking about his intestines being removed over 3 years ago. When he had complications before one of the fights. It's not a story that's just some out since the IV ban.
I imagine there's a medical record of what was done. If he is missing part of his intestines, then he can rehydrate as well, that's simply biology, its what they are for.

But I've no idea what was removed. That's a matter for his doctor and USADA. It definitely wasn't 50 feet though, that's for sure.

I don't agree with the asthma & IV comparisons. Asthma is as you said to aid breathing, theres nothing else a person can do really to stop an attack whereas Cowboy could just stop cutting so much weight meaning he would not require to re hydrate as much.

I just feel think if something is banned, then its banned with no exemptions like trt previously or now IVs. Asthma can be life threatening so that can be passed.

I know this hasn't came out about Cowboy becuase of the IVs, I'll refer you to the links I posted earlier when he was talking about the fight you've mentioned, it was against Jeremy Stephens and his stomach had twisted around his intestines.

Without knowing if there are specific tests that can(or have) been done to test Cowboys absorption levels then saying he can not hydrate properly is just a matter of opinion, albeit a doctors, but IMO it will open a whole new can of worms for other fighters looking for similar exemptions in future.

I like Cowboy, I have nothing against him, but I do think he's got an unfair advantage with this and I don't agree with it.

ASOT

Mighty Mouse was on Joe Rogan this week, if he put 20% of the personality he showed on that into his fight persona he would be one of the biggest star in the business he was hilarious.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Devastator

ASOT wrote: »

Mighty Mouse was on Joe Rogan this week, if he put 20% of the personality he showed on that into his fight persona he would be one of the biggest star in the business he was hilarious.

You want DJ to start telling jokes mid fight? :pac:;)


Just on Joe Rogan, I seen something on twitter that he's talking about leaving his UFC job. Does anyone else know anything about this? Its probably just rumours or speculation(or wishful thinking as I know not everyone is a fan) with a few people even suggesting he'll bow out at UFC200

martyos121

Loads of rumours going around that Robbie Lawler is injured and his status is unknown for 195. Some sources are denying it but more are saying it's true. Really hope it's not, the card will be in poor enough shape if that fight falls through.

EDIT: Well Ariel just said it isn't true, so that's good enough for me. He's rarely wrong.

Devastator

Devastator wrote: »

You want DJ to start telling jokes mid fight? :pac:;)


Just on Joe Rogan, I seen something on twitter that he's talking about leaving his UFC job. Does anyone else know anything about this? Its probably just rumours or speculation(or wishful thinking as I know not everyone is a fan) with a few people even suggesting he'll bow out at UFC200

Actually just seen couple of news items about this. In short for anyone who doesn't know, Rogan said his contract is up in August, he likes doing new sh*t and he might decide not to renew his contract. Or in other words he's playing the footballer card and looking for a big wage increase

Saipanne

Mellor wrote: »

But your way results in a unfair advantage. That's fairly obvious.


How does he get an advantage? Be specific?

Because research suggests that IVs alone are not significantly more effective than oral dehydration. Oral is the medically preferred method.

The advantage comes when you can hydrate orally and via IV at the same time. Cowboy can't do that.


IV rehydration is a medical procedure.


"Slow digestion" is meaninglessly vague. That won't work imo.
Cowboy is missing half his guts, that's easily verified.

He can't hydrate orally. So he has no stomach?

Mellor

Fluids are absorbed through the intestines not the stomach.

Saipanne

Mellor wrote: »

Fluids are absorbed through the intestines not the stomach.

Congratulations. You are now the king of the internet.

Mellor

Saipanne wrote: »

Congratulations. You are now the king of the internet.

What are you on about? You asked a question, I replied to it.

This fight better this time, people have spent too much time in this thread and everyone's periods have sync'd up.

Mellor

Devastator wrote: »

I don't agree with the asthma & IV comparisons. Asthma is as you said to aid breathing, theres nothing else a person can do really to stop an attack whereas Cowboy could just stop cutting so much weight meaning he would not require to re hydrate as much.

That's true he doesn't need to cut weight at all. But large weight cuts is the nature of the sport. They allowed it to go that way. I'd rather they restricted the amount you can cut years ago. Actually that would solve the Cowboy issue too.

I just feel think if something is banned, then its banned with no exemptions like trt previously or now IVs. Asthma can be life threatening so that can be passed.

But a lot of these things aren't banned outright. You are allowed to use 50ml IVs every 6 hours. There a allowed limit on asthma too. You only need a TUE to go over those limits

Without knowing if there are specific tests that can(or have) been done to test Cowboys absorption levels then saying he can not hydrate properly is just a matter of opinion, albeit a doctors, but IMO it will open a whole new can of worms for other fighters looking for similar exemptions in future.

I do see where you are coming from. We've have no facts at all, but hearsay and doctors opinions (that have been paid for). We don't really now how much he lost.
If he only lost 6" as suggested, then it is unfair.
But if it was half of them, then I feel its ok.

darced wrote: »

I'm not particularly sure,is anyone? We know IV's are banned for everyone bar cowboy.

I'd be interested to hear what proof is required for him to get the exemption.

The way I see it, and this is really speculation, if somebody is only using an IV to rehydrate, then it's shouldn't be any more making that rehydrating orally. Why would it be?
But I don't think any of us really knows whats going on behind the screens with the latest PEDs tbh.

I'm still not convinced they have a solid test for IV use either. I'd be surprised if Cowboy was the only one still using them. They need to catch somebody

MagicIRL

Devastator wrote: »

Just on Joe Rogan, I seen something on twitter that he's talking about leaving his UFC job. Does anyone else know anything about this? Its probably just rumours or speculation(or wishful thinking as I know not everyone is a fan) with a few people even suggesting he'll bow out at UFC200

I think it all stems from one of his fight podcasts on YouTube where he said he wouldn't really be bothered if the UFC didn't renew his contract. He likes being a fan and is comfortable enough now to not need the job.

He gets a bit OTT at times, but I enjoy the vast majority of his commentary. In saying that, I wouldn't mind hearing more of Dan Hardy or maybe even Bas/Mir.

martyos121

MagicIRL wrote: »

I think it all stems from one of his fight podcasts on YouTube where he said he wouldn't really be bothered if the UFC didn't renew his contract. He likes being a fan and is comfortable enough now to not need the job.

He gets a bit OTT at times, but I enjoy the vast majority of his commentary. In saying that, I wouldn't mind hearing more of Dan Hardy or maybe even Bas/Mir.

If Rogan was to leave, Mauro Ranallo is the man to replace him with. Loved him in Strikerforce and he's been in the game for a long time, not as good as Rogan, but not many are despite his flaws.

MagicIRL

The problem with Joe is he is first and foremost employed by the UFC. So, when he hypes a fighter to the extreme (a la Rousey vs Holm) - and that fighter comes crashing down to earth, he gets dogs abuse for it when realistically he's just going his job.

fitzparker

Whats the story lads & ladies(maybe), bit of help if you know, watching 194 in mates house (he has android box),we were going to watch the Thursday Fight night & Friday night TUF final before 194 kicks off, I was wondering if there is a site i can download both nights and put onto USB? I have BT sports in my house so im recording it anyway..... is there a way to download from Sky box even?

Devastator

Mellor wrote: »

That's true he doesn't need to cut weight at all. But large weight cuts is the nature of the sport. They allowed it to go that way. I'd rather they restricted the amount you can cut years ago. Actually that would solve the Cowboy issue too.


But a lot of these things aren't banned outright. You are allowed to use 50ml IVs every 6 hours. There a allowed limit on asthma too. You only need a TUE to go over those limits


I do see where you are coming from. We've have no facts at all, but hearsay and doctors opinions (that have been paid for). We don't really now how much he lost.
If he only lost 6" as suggested, then it is unfair.
But if it was half of them, then I feel its ok.


The way I see it, and this is really speculation, if somebody is only using an IV to rehydrate, then it's shouldn't be any more making that rehydrating orally. Why would it be?
But I don't think any of us really knows whats going on behind the screens with the latest PEDs tbh.

I'm still not convinced they have a solid test for IV use either. I'd be surprised if Cowboy was the only one still using them. They need to catch somebody

Hopefully the weight cutting issues will be addressed at some stage in the future. Theres been a lot of talk about it with certain fighters trying to cuttoo much weight(and failing. Personally I would like to see the idea of a further weight cut on fight day(or shortly before fight) and the fighter has to be within say 10% for example of the weight limit. Some sort of idea along these lines will help with a few of these issues.

Yeah unfortunately it does seem pretty impossible to test whether someone has used IVs after the weigh in. I could have swore I heard a while ago that Aldo(or his coach) said he would disregard the new rules and use an IV anyway. Unless the UFC/USADA get someone to handcuff themselves to each fighter after the weight cut and witness what they are doing for the next 24+ hours then I don't know how else they could know for certain.

Mellor

Devastator wrote: »

Yeah unfortunately it does seem pretty impossible to test whether someone has used IVs after the weigh in. I could have swore I heard a while ago that Aldo(or his coach) said he would disregard the new rules and use an IV anyway. Unless the UFC/USADA get someone to handcuff themselves to each fighter after the weight cut and witness what they are doing for the next 24+ hours then I don't know how else they could know for certain.

Yeah, that was Aldo. Pretty much said "I'm gonna use an iv, what can they do"
Then apologized a few days later, and promised to be good.

Devastator

Mellor wrote: »

Yeah, that was Aldo. Pretty much said "I'm gonna use an iv, what can they do"
Then apologized a few days later, and promised to be good.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm a Brazilian fighter claiming to do things the correct and honest way :pac: I wonder how deeply his tongue was shoved into his cheek while he said that lol

Depp

Devastator wrote: »

Hopefully the weight cutting issues will be addressed at some stage in the future. Theres been a lot of talk about it with certain fighters trying to cuttoo much weight(and failing. Personally I would like to see the idea of a further weight cut on fight day(or shortly before fight) and the fighter has to be within say 10% for example of the weight limit. Some sort of idea along these lines will help with a few of these issues.

Yeah unfortunately it does seem pretty impossible to test whether someone has used IVs after the weigh in. I could have swore I heard a while ago that Aldo(or his coach) said he would disregard the new rules and use an IV anyway. Unless the UFC/USADA get someone to handcuff themselves to each fighter after the weight cut and witness what they are doing for the next 24+ hours then I don't know how else they could know for certain.

In my opinion the whole weight cut problem is too ingrained in the sport and theres too many amateur wrestlers making huge cuts and competing dehydrated that will transition to mma after college and I dont really believe itll ever change unfortunately. Usada have a fairly solid test for IV usage it picks up a particular plastic compound from the bags and tubes that are used for the IV fluid and also blood aswel. the test has been used and perfected in cycling and other sports for years. The main thing it was used to mask was blood doping as the test for blood doping detects the same plastic compounds which are easily explained away by saying ah i used an iv to rehydrate. Other thing is fromanything I've read it seems to be that scientificaly, oral hydration is as effective as IV if not more, the only thing being that its more convenient

Gamebred

Wouldnt bat an eyelid if Rogan left he can bring that clown goldy with him,Get in Mauro and Brian Stann or even florian,Anik hardy or gooden are no use at the job.

Lukker-

I like Rogan. He explains the basics well enough to newcomers and you can tell he is a huge fan of the sport as well as a commentator. He's not afraid to criticize the UFC either which is refreshing.

SureYWouldntYa

Gamebred wrote: »

Wouldnt bat an eyelid if Rogan left he can bring that clown goldy with him,Get in Mauro and Brian Stann or even florian,Anik hardy or gooden are no use at the job.

I think it would be a sad day if either Rogan or Goldy or Bruce Buffer left

The 3 of them are the voices of the ufc for as long as most of us are watching it. When the Irish card was on last July, it didn't feel like the ufc as much without those 3 guys

weemcd

If Rogan leaves it will be a big loss for me personally.

If it was up to me I'd bring Stann up to cover the main shows. He has great insight, very technical, he's not long out of the game and has a good relationship with the current fighters who he talks/trains with. He'd be good for those juicy little bits of inside info. He is also the epitome of a company man.

It would be time for Goldie to call it a day, especially without Rogan. To replace him, in order of preference I would have:
Bas Rutten
Stephen Quadros
Dan Hardy
Frank Mir
^I would be happy with any of them

Anik and Florain are too similar to each other and too bland. Mauro is alright but he has a good gig with Showtime at the minute that probably pays better than the UFC. And he's a bit too corny for me.

Gamebred

Dont know why anybody likes Goldy he spouts absolute garbage hasnt a notion about fighting in general brings nothing but a few shouts of ''IT IS ALL OVERRRR'' this is one of his gems recently wtf

Lukker-

Norman Parke wants to train in SBG for UFC London.

http://severemma.com/2015/12/norman-parke-hopes-to-train-in-sbg-for-ufc-london-bout-with-khabilov/

martyos121

Lukker- wrote: »

Norman Parke wants to train in SBG for UFC London.

http://severemma.com/2015/12/norman-parke-hopes-to-train-in-sbg-for-ufc-london-bout-with-khabilov/

Don't rate him hugely, but jesus SBG are going to have one hell of a team if it keeps growing at this rate. Conor, Gunni, Amirkhani, Parke, Holohan, there's more talent there than quite a few American camps, of course McGregor and Nelson make up most of that talent.

Is Amirkhani definitely in?

xtal191

Goldy is absolutely brutal imo. I dont mind Rogan so much but def wouldn't miss him, he can be awfully biased towards some fighters though.

I've always mush preferred ex fighters on commentary Stann, Florian, Hardy, Rutten, Mir, Sonnen etc etc

Devastator

Depp wrote: »

In my opinion the whole weight cut problem is too ingrained in the sport and theres too many amateur wrestlers making huge cuts and competing dehydrated that will transition to mma after college and I dont really believe itll ever change unfortunately. Usada have a fairly solid test for IV usage it picks up a particular plastic compound from the bags and tubes that are used for the IV fluid and also blood aswel. the test has been used and perfected in cycling and other sports for years. The main thing it was used to mask was blood doping as the test for blood doping detects the same plastic compounds which are easily explained away by saying ah i used an iv to rehydrate. Other thing is fromanything I've read it seems to be that scientificaly, oral hydration is as effective as IV if not more, the only thing being that its more convenient

ahhhh now you say about the plastic found in blood I do remember hearing about that before. Oh its definitely more convenient, read about a fighter recently who said after weigh ins he would have the IV put in, have some good then goto sleep for few hours. So he was able to hydrate while sleeping, which obviously without the IVs fighters will have to stay awake while sipping down fluids.

Fromvert

I wouldn't want Rogan to go, he probably wants more money and to do less shows, I guess he'll stay around for the bigger shows and he's mentioned a few times that Fox have been the ones to request him on their bigger cards.
He says a lot of stuff I don't agree with during the fights and obviously has bias as he knows a lot of the fighters but his enthusiasm is great. You know he's up out of his seat when something happens like we are watching it on TV.

Goldie is just all cringe though, he should be gone.

They'll always have a Goldie/Anik/Gooden with a Rogan/Stann/Florian/Hardy.
You'll never have two of the later types together, there will always be the 'polished sports broadcaster type' with one of them. It's how sports commentary has been for decades.

loudnoises89

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

I think it would be a sad day if either Rogan or Goldy or Bruce Buffer left

The 3 of them are the voices of the ufc for as long as most of us are watching it. When the Irish card was on last July, it didn't feel like the ufc as much without those 3 guys

Does Goldy have any experience in training MMA or anything? Every show i hear with him, it seems like he has no idea what he's talking about. Only good at hyping stuff with that dramatic voice.

As for RoganS contract, from podcasts i've heard from him in the past, he seems to be a fan of Howard Stern. He's taking a leaf out of Howards book by making public noises about not renewing to suck every last cent out of the company. Stern was (and still is) the king of doing this lets see will Joe have the same success with the UFC.

Gamebred

I'd sooner sync the fight companion podcast in with the ufc with rogan bravo and schaub drinking and getting high discussing the fights than have rogan on the official broadcast.

SureYWouldntYa

Chael Sonnen would be ideal to replace Rogan I think.

Hope he and ufc get back on good terms, I could see him coming out of retirement when his suspension is up