General UFC Chit Chat/News

MartyMcFly84

At least there is an outlet to be a professional in the sport.

When I started training it was for fun, no one thought that an Irish person could ever really make it in UFC or be successful. We all did it because it was fun and we enjoyed it. "Pro fights" were paid 50-150 EUR many fought for free. As life went on we needed money and got jobs.

Conor was one of the first people I remember saying that he wanted to go for the UFC and really meant it. Personally I thought he was nuts, and did not see it as realistic given where everyone's level was in Ireland compared to the level in the UFC. .

Now the gym is full of young guys who see that it is possible. It is possible to make a living doing what you love, and people are pursuing it from a young age as a career path.

The sport is still very young and the money will come with time. I think the fact you can get paid at all is still pretty cool.

Davei141

Mellor wrote: »

Nobosy. It was in a response to a coment above about a child phenom not getting into MMA due to the money.


This is the real ridiculous part of the comparison with other sports.
Other sports aren't paid "fairly".
NFL players aren't paid more because football teams are more fair with their wages. They are paid more because that's the cost to hold on to them. NFL teams are businesses just like the UFC, and no less ruthless.
The PGA don't pay golfers bucket loads out of generosity, they do it to attract the best in the world, so they can sell the tournament all over the world for a massive profit. That's their bottom line too.
It's all business. Man Utd, Chelsea, City etc pay the big bucks to players, so the shareholders can maximise the profit.
The idea that other sports pay more fairly is total nonsense. THey are paid more because they are worth more. It's business like everything else.

Other sports all have associations that represent the players interests, which came about from them being taken advantage of for years. Of course they are on a bigger scale, but by fair i am talking about %'s. Do you think this would happen in any other sport where a sportsman takes a huge hit in revenue with no say mid contract?

I'm aware that the UFC have a ton more revenue than Bellator. But thats the real irony of the situation, fans complain about fighter pay, but its fans that create the revenue - or lack thereof.

Fans create the revenue and the UFC are taking a disproportional amount.

Entry level in Belator is $1,500. I shit you not.
On the card where Tito got a guaranteed $300k up top. The 14 fighters on the undercard got between 1,500 and 5,000k. If they fight twice a year, they might only get 3 or 4k, and no insurance.

That said, I doubt any fighter is only making income from fights.
(A UFC HW is in sydney this weekend, $4k for 3 hours).

Bellator aren't perfect by a long stretch. Say that 1500 fighter made 5k in sponsors and all of sudden bellator came in with Under Armour and all of sudden that guy gets a flat €500 fee. How is that right? Also Bellator are still considered minor leagues, when they become big leagues the UFC will attempt to buy them out, rinse and repeat.

Monthy I would have been endorsement money for stuff outside the cage. Afaik, this deal doesn't stop that happening (open to correction).
I'd imagine more low level guys were just getting paid by the appearance though.

But that monthly check was on the basis of when they do show up in the cage they will be rocking their logos.

I can't understand anyone defending this deal with the fighters getting screwed, they are the reason you watch this sport.

Mellor

Davei141 wrote: »

Other sports all have associations that represent the players interests, which came about from them being taken advantage of for years. Of course they are on a bigger scale, but by fair i am talking about %'s. Do you think this would happen in any other sport where a sportsman takes a huge hit in revenue with no say mid contract?

In most other sports the sportsman gets no money from team/uniform sponsors. If they change deal kid contract they get nout too.

There are players unions in a lot of spirts, but not all sports. MMA is still very small.

Fans create the revenue and the UFC are taking a disproportional amount.

Disproportionate compared to what exactly?
I'be no idea what % revenue goes to fighters, nobody knows. But I say it's not very different than the percent making its way to the pockets of the Dallas Cowboys, for example.

Bellator aren't perfect by a long stretch. Say that 1500 fighter made 5k in sponsors and all of sudden bellator came in with Under Armour and all of sudden that guy gets a flat €500 fee. How is that right? Also Bellator are still considered minor leagues, when they become big leagues the UFC will attempt to buy them out, rinse and repeat.

The guy making $1500 on a belator undercard would have probably gotten zero sponsor dollars. I'm just trying to highlight how much better being in the UFC pays, even with it's ****ty sponsor deal.
I'm aware belator are small leagues, but that's because they didn't punt on MMA until it was established.
If they don't want to be bought out they can never be forced to sell.

But that monthly check was on the basis of when they do show up in the cage they will be rocking their logos.

Nope. Endorsements are for appearing in ads, magazines, day to day stuff. In cage sponsors was separate, and is on a per fight basis.

I can't understand anyone defending this deal with the fighters getting screwed, they are the reason you watch this sport.

The deal is gonna cost some fighters a lot of cash. It's cost done fighters not so much, abd will make a few fighters money (who was that guy who wore basketball shorts with the tag on?)
I'm not defending the deal. I'm just pointing out that some of the criticisms and comparisons to other sports are utter nonsense. Or stuff relating to the business side of things makes literally no sense.

MrStuffins

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

At least there is an outlet to be a professional in the sport.

When I started training it was for fun, no one thought that an Irish person could ever really make it in UFC or be successful. We all did it because it was fun and we enjoyed it. "Pro fights" were paid 50-150 EUR many fought for free. As life went on we needed money and got jobs.

Conor was one of the first people I remember saying that he wanted to go for the UFC and really meant it. Personally I thought he was nuts, and did not see it as realistic given where everyone's level was in Ireland compared to the level in the UFC. .

Now the gym is full of young guys who see that it is possible. It is possible to make a living doing what you love, and people are pursuing it from a young age as a career path.

The sport is still very young and the money will come with time. I think the fact you can get paid at all is still pretty cool.

While this is all true, this is a time where UFC PPVs are being sold at $60 a piece and are doing 1m+ buys. It's not the sport it was when nobody gave a rats about it.

How can Dana White keep a straight face? "These fighters will get a few thousand dollars from Reebok and they should shut their mouths because it's fair......... oh........... and I think the upcoming card will do 2m buys!"

There's a lot of money in the UFC. And not enough of it is going to the fighters.

Davei141

Mellor wrote: »

In most other sports the sportsman gets no money from team/uniform sponsors. If they change deal kid contract they get nout too.

There are players unions in a lot of spirts, but not all sports. MMA is still very small.

Disproportionate compared to what exactly?
I'be no idea what % revenue goes to fighters, nobody knows. But I say it's not very different than the percent making its way to the pockets of the Dallas Cowboys, for example.


The guy making $1500 on a belator undercard would have probably gotten zero sponsor dollars. I'm just trying to highlight how much better being in the UFC pays, even with it's ****ty sponsor deal.
I'm aware belator are small leagues, but that's because they didn't punt on MMA until it was established.
If they don't want to be bought out they can never be forced to sell.


Nope. Endorsements are for appearing in ads, magazines, day to day stuff. In cage sponsors was separate, and is on a per fight basis.


The deal is gonna cost some fighters a lot of cash. It's cost done fighters not so much, abd will make a few fighters money (who was that guy who wore basketball shorts with the tag on?)
I'm not defending the deal. I'm just pointing out that some of the criticisms and comparisons to other sports are utter nonsense. Or stuff relating to the business side of things makes literally no sense.

In the other team sports where they get no money from kits deals is because their base pay is so high, don't forget the entire reason for all the sponsorship is because base pay is not enough for most professional fighters to survive on.

NFL teams pay out approx 50% of their revenue in wages, do you really believe the UFC even give half that amount?

Fighters have already said they used to get a monthly check that has now disappeared, because those same sponsors were no longer going to sponsor them with no visibility in the cage. If they are asked to rep Venom inside and outside the cage, and that same company backs out completely due to the Reebok deal i.e no in cage sponsors. then the monthly check was from being sponsored, and the biggest part of being sponsored was the eyes on their logo during the fightweek/cage.

Of course the other sport comparisons are ridiculous, that is the whole point! "We want to be like the NFL" well pay them and give them the same protection as an NFL player. Cody McKenzie was the guy with the basketball shorts with the tag on, he is also the same guy who gets black out drunk an donates blood to make weight, more like being lazy and unprofessional was the reason he had no sponsors.

A very very small % might benefit (How many have said they would benefit? Must be much less than 5, i don't know anyone who will be up money, a few people brown nosing but not actually up money) compared to the huge amount being lost, you say you aren't defending the deal, so what is your opinion on the deal then? Good/Bad/Terrible?

MartyMcFly84

How much does it cost the UFC to run a show?

I imagine the profits from the cards in Germany for example are not that high. The cost of running a show is really high, especially when you go overseas. I would guess that many overseas fights would even incur a cost.

I wonder what the UFC staff monthly payroll is? I think there are a lot of costs to the UFC that we don't even know about and are not that visible.

Do they make good money? Yes. Is it as much as we think looking at the gross income potential for marquee events? probably not.

Why not get rid of ring girls and use that money to boost the under card fighters payroll?

threeball

One thing White conveniently avoids also is that players in any other sport pay for practically nothing. Food and nutrition, club picks up the Tab, injured, club picks up the tab, trainers and coaches, club picks up the tab. Even the GAA an amateur sport in a country of 5 million people does the above plus pays expenses while simultaneously maintaining hundreds of clubs and facilities. Dublin footballers have their meals delivered to them throughout the championship each and every day. UFC has insurance to cover you if you get injured but that's it. Rehab on your own time for the niggly stuff, unless you blow an ACL don't come near us. When it comes to presentation, promotion and money making UFC is world class, everything else is not even amateur hour.

shrapnel222

threeball wrote: »

One thing White conveniently avoids also is that players in any other sport pay for practically nothing. Food and nutrition, club picks up the Tab, injured, club picks up the tab, trainers and coaches, club picks up the tab. Even the GAA an amateur sport in a country of 5 million people does the above plus pays expenses while simultaneously maintaining hundreds of clubs and facilities. Dublin footballers have their meals delivered to them throughout the championship each and every day. UFC has insurance to cover you if you get injured but that's it. Rehab on your own time for the niggly stuff, unless you blow an ACL don't come near us. When it comes to presentation, promotion and money making UFC is world class, everything else is not even amateur hour.

you're really not comparing like for like. MMA is not a team sport! A better comparison would be tennis. the players pay everything themselves. coaches, hotels, flights etc. If you're not in the top 50, you won't be earning that much tbh, and if you're injured you won't get a penny from the ATP. A huge amount of sports are like that, but that's just the way it is!

threeball

shrapnel222 wrote: »

you're really not comparing like for like. MMA is not a team sport! A better comparison would be tennis. the players pay everything themselves. coaches, hotels, flights etc. If you're not in the top 50, you won't be earning that much tbh, and if you're injured you won't get a penny from the ATP. A huge amount of sports are like that, but that's just the way it is!

White constantly compares the ufc to nfl, nba, major league etc. Plus if a tennis player or golfer has a good week they have the potential to win hundreds of thousands in predefined prize money. They also can play week in week out to maximise potential earnings. None of that is possible in the ufc.

Easy Rod

threeball wrote: »

White constantly compares the ufc to nfl, nba, major league etc. Plus if a tennis player or golfer has a good week they have the potential to win hundreds of thousands in predefined prize money. They also can play week in week out to maximise potential earnings. None of that is possible in the ufc.

Interesting article from one of Ireland's top tennis players about playing on the tour - http://jamesmcgeetennis.com/2013/06/24/financing-the-tour/
Ultimately, it's not as simple as saying the ufc should pay fighters more. The more successful the ufc is as a business the more they invest in the long term viability of the sport. It's not as if they're only lining the pockets of their owners (they do earn a pretty penny), a lot of profits are being reinvested to make the sport a mainstream one.

I know it's easy for me to say but I do think fighters might be taking a slightly short term view of this.

raze_them_all_

Easy Rod wrote: »

Interesting article from one of Ireland's top tennis players about playing on the tour - http://jamesmcgeetennis.com/2013/06/24/financing-the-tour/
Ultimately, it's not as simple as saying the ufc should pay fighters more. The more successful the ufc is as a business the more they invest in the long term viability of the sport. It's not as if they're only lining the pockets of their owners (they do earn a pretty penny), a lot of profits are being reinvested to make the sport a mainstream one.

I know it's easy for me to say but I do think fighters might be taking a slightly short term view of this.

Yeah...looking to a time when they can retire after spending their whole careers in a professional sport earning **** all for the most part.

The ufc has lead the way in the sport, reaped the benefits so much so they bought every rivasl company around.

I feel the ufc should actually trim the fat in the amount of fighters they have tbh. Even if they did they probably still wouldnt increase the pay anyway

Mellor

Davei141 wrote: »

NFL teams pay out approx 50% of their revenue in wages, do you really believe the UFC even give half that amount?

I think it's set at 47-48% of League revenue. But for the big earners, Cowboys for example, it's 25%.

I honestly hane no idea what UFC annual fighter money would come to. It's probably a lot though. The PPV money is the unknown element.

Of course the other sport comparisons are ridiculous, that is the whole point! "We want to be like the NFL" well pay them and give them the same protection as an NFL player.

I'm talking about people comparing the fighter pay to other sports salarys. The NFL is has a $9b turnover, it's on a different planet.
Did somebody (Dana?) say they were paid the same as NFL players? Lol

A very very small % might benefit (How many have said they would benefit? Must be much less than 5, i don't know anyone who will be up money, a few people brown nosing but not actually up money) compared to the huge amount being lost, you say you aren't defending the deal, so what is your opinion on the deal then? Good/Bad/Terrible?

A friend on mine sponsored a current UFC fighter for his last few fights. He has a trucking company. I don't think he really benefits, but he did it to help the guy out, as he still lots of sponsors "space". I don't know what he paid, but I imagine entry level is pretty cheap these days (more fighters, more cards). I don't think fighters at that level are losing much. But the guys mid tier are probably hit the hardest.

As for the deal, I think the idea of a ok, but not the execution of this one. I said before that I think it's basically paving the way for a bigger deal in the future.
A better option would have been a four year deal with reebok, that allowed for one other sponsor on the front/back. With only one spot availible, it's vakue goes up. After 4 years the next deal can move to full sponsorship at a price that reflects it's worth (based on the 4 year deal).

I also thought te existing model was fine too.

TimRiggins

Bethe Correia came out and said she hopes Ronda doesn't kill herself after it. Ronda lost her father by suicide.

Zero-Cool

TimRiggins wrote: »

Bethe Correia came out and said she hopes Ronda doesn't kill herself after it. Ronda lost her father by suicide.

Arm...clean...off...

xtal191

TimRiggins wrote: »

Bethe Correia came out and said she hopes Ronda doesn't kill herself after it. Ronda lost her father by suicide.

She apologised on twitter

Mr. Manager

xtal191 wrote: »

She apologised on twitter

John_D80

Really disappointed to see Dylan Andrews got cut. Always put on a good show since his first fight on TUF and came across as a sound bloke. Hope he gets picked by a decent organisation.

Losing 3 on the trot though, he probably figured it was coming.

ASOT

John_D80 wrote: »

Really disappointed to see Dylan Andrews got cut. Always put on a good show since his first fight on TUF and came across as a sound bloke. Hope he gets picked by a decent organisation.

Losing 3 on the trot though, he probably figured it was coming.

I wasnt happy with Tim Elliot getting cut fair enough he lost three on the trot but all to topish people.

John_D80

ASOT wrote: »

I wasnt happy with Tim Elliot getting cut fair enough he lost three on the trot but all to topish people.

Are you sure? Wasn't he ranked?? Like 14 or 15 or something??

Edit: Wait, sorry Im pretty sure I was thinkin of someone else. Ortiz I think (#11).

ASOT

John_D80 wrote: »

Are you sure? Wasn't he ranked?? Like 14 or 15 or something??

Yeah he was one of the 10 released, lost his last three to Bagutinov, Benavidez & Makovsky so wasnt really expecting it, seems like a nice bloke aswell. Louis Gaudinot also got released.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/6/2/8716655/shayna-baszler-among-host-of-fighters-released-by-the-ufc

Mellor

John_D80 wrote: »

Really disappointed to see Dylan Andrews got cut. Always put on a good show since his first fight on TUF and came across as a sound bloke. Hope he gets picked by a decent organisation.

The real unfortunate part about Andrew was that he dislocated his own arm in one loss, and KO'd himself in another.

But he was also stuck in the Australian rut. There's a good few ozzies signed to the UFC, but very few of them fight outside the australain card.

ASOT

DC v Gus & Weidman v Rockhold confirmed by Mr White. No venues or dates yet.... It actually shows how thin the LHW division is considering Gus is coming off a loss to the person DC just beat....

Ush1

ASOT wrote: »

DC v Gus & Weidman v Rockhold confirmed by Mr White. No venues or dates yet.... It actually shows how thin the LHW division is considering Gus is coming off a loss to the person DC just beat....

Ryan Bader was the obvious choice.

ASOT

Ush1 wrote: »

Ryan Bader was the obvious choice.

Exactly, but it would have been a snoozefest that's why they went with Gus imo.

MrStuffins

Ush1 wrote: »

Ryan Bader was the obvious choice.

Ryan Bader has no business in a fight for the UFC Title!

CurryFlavoured

Is the Gus fight confirmed? If it is I'm delighted, sensible move by the UFC I know he's coming off a loss but he's in a different league to Bader and anyone else who could have been considered. I think he matches up better with DC than Rumble did. Better wrestling, cardio and he can control distance better.

MrStuffins

Yeah, confirmed. UFC.com were reporting it this morning and they posted it on Facebook too.

CurryFlavoured

Brilliant. A lot of people are complaining but if you're given the choice between Gus who's coming off a loss to AJ or Bader who's coming off a narrow win over Phil fecking Davis (!), you choose Gus every time. It's just a bit worrying that Gus has been so inactive though.

csallmighty

Hope Gus wins and we get Gus vs Jones 2 with Gus as the champ. Who would have thought this possible a year ago.

CurryFlavoured

csallmighty wrote: »

Hope Gus wins and we get Gus vs Jones 2 with Gus as the champ. Who would have thought this possible a year ago.

That would be epic, much better than DC-JBJ 2 imo.