General UFC Chit Chat/News

Lukker-

riffmongous wrote: »

If it's about levelling the playing field then Nick Newell should been given a TUE to allow him to use a mechanical claw

I dunno that club arm had plenty of advantages in grappling and submissions..

TUE for his opponents to be allowed to remove their arm below the elbow perhaps :pac:

Depp

the tue is completely fair imo, theres a reason youre intestines are so long and missing half of them is obviously going to make it more difficult to absorb fluid, and its not a thing that can be easily abused, theres a big difference between having stomach problems and missing half of it, no point not allowing him to rehydrate properly its just not safe

Lukker-

Yup, although I don't think he can rely on it. He should move up to WW after this fight (if he loses which I think he will) and prob try and limit his cut to maybe 10 pounds. But he's earned this title shot and I think it'd be unfair to take it away on the grounds that he can't re-hydrate the same way his opponents can.

He's a very big guy for LW anyways so the move up shouldn't be hard.

Pulse8

But could it not be argued then that if Cowboy finds it hard to re-hydrate after cutting weight then he should fight in a higher weight class where he doesn't have to cut as much / any


EDIT - was typing whilst post above was posted

Depp

True, but theres a difference between this and someone cutting more than they should, which i dont believe is the case with cowboy, on the other hand though I'd imagine 50 feet of intestines has a fair bit of weight to it so it could be an advantage that way, still though thats a fairly debilitating injury at the same time id say the disadvantages far outweigh whatever advantages it gives

ASOT

Rewatching UFC 165 what an event that was. Feel so bad for Khabibs knees being made of cling film he absolutely murdered Healy.

Ush1

I think Cowboy being able to use IVs is ridiculous.

Depp

Ush1 wrote: »

I think Cowboy being able to use IVs is ridiculous.

why though? hes medically unable to absorb water orally at the same rate as a healthy person, be dangerous to not let him have it

darced

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Lukker-

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Post fight tests are next to pointless, only someone with no experience with PED's would be taking them close to fight week.

PED's are most effective before or during a camp, allowing yourself to push yourself harder in training and recover quicker. They would be long gone out of his system at that stage.

If he was caught using an IV before a random drug test before the fight, then you could begin to ask questions.

Ush1

Depp wrote: »

why though? hes medically unable to absorb water orally at the same rate as a healthy person, be dangerous to not let him have it

Yeah but he doesn't have to cut weight. As has been pointed out, lots of people have natural disadvantages of various forms.

Devastator

Depp wrote: »

why though? hes medically unable to absorb water orally at the same rate as a healthy person, be dangerous to not let him have it

Are there medical tests that prove this?

Depp

Devastator wrote: »

Are there medical tests that prove this?

not that i have access to anyway, but Id assume the usada had tests done before granting the tue, plus hes missing half his intestines thats obviously going to affect absorption rates its simple biology

Devastator

Depp wrote: »

not that i have access to anyway, but Id assume the usada had tests done before granting the tue, plus hes missing half his intestines thats obviously going to affect absorption rates its simple biology

haha Im not asking if you had specific details, I just meant in general are there any medical tests that can be done to test someones body for water absorption as I've not heard of 1. There seems to be some confusion over what Cowboy lost, I've seen a few posts saying 1/2 his intestines but according to the link I posted earlier its 1/2 his stomach and only 6" of his intestine which is actually pretty minimal.

Mellor

Saipanne wrote: »

Which would be absurd. My way is slightly more normal.

But your way results in a unfair advantage. That's fairly obvious.

So, as it stands Cowboy gets the advantage. Fair enough.

How does he get an advantage? Be specific?

Because research suggests that IVs alone are not significantly more effective than oral dehydration. Oral is the medically preferred method.

The advantage comes when you can hydrate orally and via IV at the same time. Cowboy can't do that.

Devastator wrote: »

I don't understand the asthma comparison at all tbh. IVs are just purely fluid right with no medication whereas its asthma medication. Am I missing something?

IV rehydration is a medical procedure.

I bet there are a lot of fighters who are looking into excuses with their digestive systems to say they need to use IVs too, so it won't be long until its being overly abused aswell. There are people who suffer from slow digestion or slow emptying of the stomach, they could argue they're not able to orally hydrate because they can not take in enough fliuds properly

My earlier comparison was basically to say if nobody's allowed TRT because its hard to determine who actually needs it, then its the same as IV use and it should be banned for everyone.

"Slow digestion" is meaninglessly vague. That won't work imo.
Cowboy is missing half his guts, that's easily verified.

Depp

Devastator wrote: »

haha Im not asking if you had specific details, I just meant in general are there any medical tests that can be done to test someones body for water absorption as I've not heard of 1. There seems to be some confusion over what Cowboy lost, I've seen a few posts saying 1/2 his intestines but according to the link I posted earlier its 1/2 his stomach and only 6" of his intestine which is actually pretty minimal.

ah right i see, my bad! dunno really surely some way of testing it could check the concentration of the blood id imagine, didnt see that now few stories going around alright, one im going on is his sherdog interview, said in that hed lost half his stomach and 50 foot of intestines which would have a huge effect if true, seemingly usada are very strict with granting tues so id imagine its necesery however much hes lost

Devastator

Mellor wrote: »

IV rehydration is a medical procedure.


"Slow digestion" is meaninglessly vague. That won't work imo.
Cowboy is missing half his guts, that's easily verified.

ok still dont understand your comparison between IVs(medical procedure) & Asthma medication. As I said before there seem to be different stories about how much of his intestines have been removed.

Depp wrote: »

ah right i see, my bad! dunno really surely some way of testing it could check the concentration of the blood id imagine, didnt see that now few stories going around alright, one im going on is his sherdog interview, said in that hed lost half his stomach and 50 foot of intestines which would have a huge effect if true, seemingly usada are very strict with granting tues so id imagine its necesery however much hes lost

Blood tests might be able to tell, I dunno though. I've to goto see a blood specialist next week, I'll try and remember to ask about it. Definitely huge difference between 6" and 50 foot as I've been told by girls in the past :eek::o At this stage to me it just sounds like its a someones opinion that Cowboy can't absorb as much water as other people and he's going along with it, don't blame him for that. Obviously if it is something that can be tested & proven than thats the end of discussion but I still think we'll see fighters in future come up with excuses for an exemption.

Mellor

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

How can he use this to beat the tests? Genuine question.
It's known he'll be using the IV at a specfic time. He'll be tested before hand it, leading up to the fight. Then again pre and post fight samples.

Importantly, even if there was a way to infuse a hypothetical 100% undetectable PED post weigh-in. Then it doesn't matter, it's still PED use. RDA or anyone else can use that heat like that hypothetical undetectable PED if they wanted also.

Devastator wrote: »

ok still dont understand your comparison between IVs(medical procedure) & Asthma medication. As I said before there seem to be different stories about how much of his intestines have been removed

Asthma medicine helps you breath better. It's a banned PED.
People who have issues with their lungs can get a TUE to breath normally.
If Cerrone had asthma, and was given a TUE, would people be saying that RDA should be allowed to use asthma medicine for the fight too?


Ergo, it's the same as the IV situation. If Cerrone genuinely is missing a significance portion of his intestines. He should be afforded treatment to rehydrate just like everyone else.
Whether or not its genuine is up to USADA and his medical records.

At this stage to me it just sounds like its a someones opinion that Cowboy can't absorb as much water as other people and he's going along with it, don't blame him for that.

He's on record talking about his intestines being removed over 3 years ago. When he had complications before one of the fights. It's not a story that's just some out since the IV ban.
I imagine there's a medical record of what was done. If he is missing part of his intestines, then he can rehydrate as well, that's simply biology, its what they are for.

But I've no idea what was removed. That's a matter for his doctor and USADA. It definitely wasn't 50 feet though, that's for sure.

Devastator

Mellor wrote: »

Asthma medicine helps you breath better. It's a banned PED.
People who have issues with their lungs can get a TUE to breath normally.
If Cerrone had asthma, and was given a TUE, would people be saying that RDA should be allowed to use asthma medicine for the fight too?


Ergo, it's the same as the IV situation. If Cerrone genuinely is missing a significance portion of his intestines. He should be afforded treatment to rehydrate just like everyone else.
Whether or not its genuine is up to USADA and his medical records.


He's on record talking about his intestines being removed over 3 years ago. When he had complications before one of the fights. It's not a story that's just some out since the IV ban.
I imagine there's a medical record of what was done. If he is missing part of his intestines, then he can rehydrate as well, that's simply biology, its what they are for.

But I've no idea what was removed. That's a matter for his doctor and USADA. It definitely wasn't 50 feet though, that's for sure.

I don't agree with the asthma & IV comparisons. Asthma is as you said to aid breathing, theres nothing else a person can do really to stop an attack whereas Cowboy could just stop cutting so much weight meaning he would not require to re hydrate as much.

I just feel think if something is banned, then its banned with no exemptions like trt previously or now IVs. Asthma can be life threatening so that can be passed.

I know this hasn't came out about Cowboy becuase of the IVs, I'll refer you to the links I posted earlier when he was talking about the fight you've mentioned, it was against Jeremy Stephens and his stomach had twisted around his intestines.

Without knowing if there are specific tests that can(or have) been done to test Cowboys absorption levels then saying he can not hydrate properly is just a matter of opinion, albeit a doctors, but IMO it will open a whole new can of worms for other fighters looking for similar exemptions in future.

I like Cowboy, I have nothing against him, but I do think he's got an unfair advantage with this and I don't agree with it.

ASOT

Mighty Mouse was on Joe Rogan this week, if he put 20% of the personality he showed on that into his fight persona he would be one of the biggest star in the business he was hilarious.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Devastator

ASOT wrote: »

Mighty Mouse was on Joe Rogan this week, if he put 20% of the personality he showed on that into his fight persona he would be one of the biggest star in the business he was hilarious.

You want DJ to start telling jokes mid fight? :pac:;)


Just on Joe Rogan, I seen something on twitter that he's talking about leaving his UFC job. Does anyone else know anything about this? Its probably just rumours or speculation(or wishful thinking as I know not everyone is a fan) with a few people even suggesting he'll bow out at UFC200

martyos121

Loads of rumours going around that Robbie Lawler is injured and his status is unknown for 195. Some sources are denying it but more are saying it's true. Really hope it's not, the card will be in poor enough shape if that fight falls through.

EDIT: Well Ariel just said it isn't true, so that's good enough for me. He's rarely wrong.

Devastator

Devastator wrote: »

You want DJ to start telling jokes mid fight? :pac:;)


Just on Joe Rogan, I seen something on twitter that he's talking about leaving his UFC job. Does anyone else know anything about this? Its probably just rumours or speculation(or wishful thinking as I know not everyone is a fan) with a few people even suggesting he'll bow out at UFC200

Actually just seen couple of news items about this. In short for anyone who doesn't know, Rogan said his contract is up in August, he likes doing new sh*t and he might decide not to renew his contract. Or in other words he's playing the footballer card and looking for a big wage increase

Saipanne

Mellor wrote: »

But your way results in a unfair advantage. That's fairly obvious.


How does he get an advantage? Be specific?

Because research suggests that IVs alone are not significantly more effective than oral dehydration. Oral is the medically preferred method.

The advantage comes when you can hydrate orally and via IV at the same time. Cowboy can't do that.


IV rehydration is a medical procedure.


"Slow digestion" is meaninglessly vague. That won't work imo.
Cowboy is missing half his guts, that's easily verified.

He can't hydrate orally. So he has no stomach?

Mellor

Fluids are absorbed through the intestines not the stomach.

Saipanne

Mellor wrote: »

Fluids are absorbed through the intestines not the stomach.

Congratulations. You are now the king of the internet.

Mellor

Saipanne wrote: »

Congratulations. You are now the king of the internet.

What are you on about? You asked a question, I replied to it.

This fight better this time, people have spent too much time in this thread and everyone's periods have sync'd up.

Mellor

Devastator wrote: »

I don't agree with the asthma & IV comparisons. Asthma is as you said to aid breathing, theres nothing else a person can do really to stop an attack whereas Cowboy could just stop cutting so much weight meaning he would not require to re hydrate as much.

That's true he doesn't need to cut weight at all. But large weight cuts is the nature of the sport. They allowed it to go that way. I'd rather they restricted the amount you can cut years ago. Actually that would solve the Cowboy issue too.

I just feel think if something is banned, then its banned with no exemptions like trt previously or now IVs. Asthma can be life threatening so that can be passed.

But a lot of these things aren't banned outright. You are allowed to use 50ml IVs every 6 hours. There a allowed limit on asthma too. You only need a TUE to go over those limits

Without knowing if there are specific tests that can(or have) been done to test Cowboys absorption levels then saying he can not hydrate properly is just a matter of opinion, albeit a doctors, but IMO it will open a whole new can of worms for other fighters looking for similar exemptions in future.

I do see where you are coming from. We've have no facts at all, but hearsay and doctors opinions (that have been paid for). We don't really now how much he lost.
If he only lost 6" as suggested, then it is unfair.
But if it was half of them, then I feel its ok.

darced wrote: »

I'm not particularly sure,is anyone? We know IV's are banned for everyone bar cowboy.

I'd be interested to hear what proof is required for him to get the exemption.

The way I see it, and this is really speculation, if somebody is only using an IV to rehydrate, then it's shouldn't be any more making that rehydrating orally. Why would it be?
But I don't think any of us really knows whats going on behind the screens with the latest PEDs tbh.

I'm still not convinced they have a solid test for IV use either. I'd be surprised if Cowboy was the only one still using them. They need to catch somebody

MagicIRL

Devastator wrote: »

Just on Joe Rogan, I seen something on twitter that he's talking about leaving his UFC job. Does anyone else know anything about this? Its probably just rumours or speculation(or wishful thinking as I know not everyone is a fan) with a few people even suggesting he'll bow out at UFC200

I think it all stems from one of his fight podcasts on YouTube where he said he wouldn't really be bothered if the UFC didn't renew his contract. He likes being a fan and is comfortable enough now to not need the job.

He gets a bit OTT at times, but I enjoy the vast majority of his commentary. In saying that, I wouldn't mind hearing more of Dan Hardy or maybe even Bas/Mir.