General UFC Chit Chat/News

jimmii

MagicIRL wrote: »

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. If you watch any MMA event, it's incredibly common to hear about the "new wave" of fighter coming through who's training MMA as opposed to a single discipline like Wrestling, or Boxing, and transitioning over to MMA.

Do you think it's better to be genuinely world class at one aspect of the game, or have a broad spread over all areas? I'm thinking of how dominant Rousey was with her Olympic Judo, Holm and her champion boxing/kickboxing, or how fighters like Jacare/Nelson/Maia have their jiujitsu on another level to always fall back on or is it better to have a broad even base in all things MMA instead of standing out in one area?

Just a thought. Would love to hear what everyone thinks.

While the specialists in BJJ, Muay Thai, Wrestling etc will still excel in that area the average in each area is steadily increasing as more people start out with MMA instead of starting out with another sport and migrating. If you only train in one aspect of MMA then you have no chance now as virtually everyone has decent enough BJJ/MT etc. Its the transition aspects that are almost solely unique to MMA that make it important to have MMA training incorporated as opposed to just doing BJJ/MT/Wrestling separately.

MagicIRL

jimmii wrote: »

While the specialists in BJJ, Muay Thai, Wrestling etc will still excel in that area the average in each area is steadily increasing as more people start out with MMA instead of starting out with another sport and migrating. If you only train in one aspect of MMA then you have no chance now as virtually everyone has decent BJJ/MT etc. Its the transition aspects that are almost solely unique to MMA that make it important to have MMA training incorporated as opposed to doing BJJ/MT/Wrestling separately.

Yes, but for example, Rousey's striking/boxing is on par if not better than her divisions (bar Holm who specialises in it) but her Judo is better than anyone will produce from an MMA gym. Even Holm couldn't stop the takedown and she had been drilled to stop it over and over.

So, I guess, at what point does a broad MMA training system become enough to neutralize a specialised opponent? Or is it better to come from a specialised background and then round up your game? Which would make you more dangerous?

jimmii

MagicIRL wrote: »

Yes, but for example, Rousey's striking/boxing is on par if not better than her divisions (bar Holm who specialises in it) but her Judo is better than anyone will produce from an MMA gym. Even Holm couldn't stop the takedown and she had been drilled to stop it over and over.

So, I guess, at what point does a broad MMA training system become enough to neutralize a specialised opponent? Or is it better to come from a specialised background and then round up your game? Which would make you more dangerous?

It depends on the level of the division/opposition. Rousey could get away with just excelling in one area as the others didn't have good enough skills to overcome that over time that changes as people learn different disciplines and how to incorporate them into an overall game plan.

Its like how you get footballers some might be exceptionally fast and make that effective like Walcott or you might have players who have exception ball control or goalscoring ability and they can all play at a very high level but the very best like Messi are exceptional at more than just one aspect of the game and that is what takes them to the next level.

weemcd

jimmii wrote: »

While the specialists in BJJ, Muay Thai, Wrestling etc will still excel in that area the average in each area is steadily increasing as more people start out with MMA instead of starting out with another sport and migrating. If you only train in one aspect of MMA then you have no chance now as virtually everyone has decent enough BJJ/MT etc. Its the transition aspects that are almost solely unique to MMA that make it important to have MMA training incorporated as opposed to just doing BJJ/MT/Wrestling separately.

This. The magic is in the transitions.

Subcomandante Marcos

MagicIRL wrote: »

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. If you watch any MMA event, it's incredibly common to hear about the "new wave" of fighter coming through who's training MMA as opposed to a single discipline like Wrestling, or Boxing, and transitioning over to MMA.

Do you think it's better to be genuinely world class at one aspect of the game, or have a broad spread over all areas? I'm thinking of how dominant Rousey was with her Olympic Judo, Holm and her champion boxing/kickboxing, or how fighters like Jacare/Nelson/Maia have their jiujitsu on another level to always fall back on or is it better to have a broad even base in all things MMA instead of standing out in one area?

Just a thought. Would love to hear what everyone thinks.

I agree with you almost completely.

The best coaches in the world are specialists in specific areas.

Wink is a kickboxer, Bang is a kickboxer, Zahabi is a BJJ coach, Kavanagh is a BJJ coach, Uriah Faber is a wrestler, etc, etc, etc.

Even in the places that claim they don't specialise in specific disciplines, they do and will have specific coaches for wrestling, bjj, kickboxing, boxing and whatever else.

Every single UFC champion at the moment and in the past has as specific base skillset or skillsets they work from and I don't see that changing.

Werdum's base is BJJ and muy thai, DC's is wrestling, Wideman is a wrestler, Lawler was an all state wrestler, dos Anjos BJJ and Muy thai, Aldo BJJ and Luta Livre, TJ is a wrestler, DJ is a wrestler, Even the intirm champ, Conor, is a boxer who has a broad BJJ background and Jon Jones is a wrestler.

All of them now train other areas as well, but the base allowed them something to begin with.

All of them have one area that they could use as a base and build off of, mostly grappling backgrounds, no surprise there though.

I don't agree with this recent jack of all trades approach to be honest. I think it's important to have one or two styles you can look to and say "I'm great at this" and then build the rest around those.

JoeyJJ

Tony Fergusion interview, he seems a little deluded, never takes classes, he might when he gets found out down the line.

mfceiling

I know very little about mma but is a good boxer likely to triumph more often? Rousey was kept at arms length and eventually ko'd. Gunnar (?) fought a guy who just stood off him and boxed his way to victory.
If you are kept at arms length and can't get someone to the ground are you more likely to end up losing?

cletus

mfceiling wrote: »

I know very little about mma but is a good boxer likely to triumph more often? Rousey was kept at arms length and eventually ko'd. Gunnar (?) fought a guy who just stood off him and boxed his way to victory.
If you are kept at arms length and can't get someone to the ground are you more likely to end up losing?

Not without takedown defence. See James Toney vs. Randy Couture. If you cant stuff a takedown successfully in the clinch, or if you cant sprawl, you wil be taken down.

Kicks also add an extra dimension for pure boxers that messes with their timing and distance.

Demetrious Johnson was on Joe Rogan's podcast recently talking about sparring/rolling etc with people from 'pure' disciplines, and he reckoned he could tell very early on whether they crosstrained in mma from their setups etc.

jimmii

mfceiling wrote: »

I know very little about mma but is a good boxer likely to triumph more often? Rousey was kept at arms length and eventually ko'd. Gunnar (?) fought a guy who just stood off him and boxed his way to victory.
If you are kept at arms length and can't get someone to the ground are you more likely to end up losing?

Having good stand up is obviously important as that is where the fight starts. Its rare for someone to do MMA and use a traditional boxing stance as the wider leg position makes it trickier to check kicks or stuff takedowns and the slightly lower head position means that you are more likely to be in the worse position at the clinch. Probably the common stance is a modified Muay Thai style which is more upright and a bit more square on than regular boxing.

Mellor

mfceiling wrote: »

I know very little about mma but is a good boxer likely to triumph more often? Rousey was kept at arms length and eventually ko'd. Gunnar (?) fought a guy who just stood off him and boxed his way to victory

Good boxing, and boxing alone won't get you very far. Especially if your opponent knows that's all you have.

Holly won via boxing, but it was her counter grappling that allowed her to survive long enough to get the KO.

Gunnar's only loss was a to Rick Story, he's a wrestler.

shocksy

Quick question, between yesterday an this evenings current weigh ins, I've noticed some fighters over weight, whether it be 0.5lb or 1.0lb and it's not classed as being overweight, but then on other occasions I've seen fighters literally getting their shorts off on stage an all to try make the weight, are you allowed a small margin to be overweight?

eg. Mendes just weighed in at 146lbs which would be 1lb over the 145lbs for featherweight.

Subcomandante Marcos

shocksy wrote: »

Quick question, between yesterday an this evenings current weigh ins, I've noticed some fighters over weight, whether it be 0.5lb or 1.0lb and it's not classed as being overweight, but then on other occasions I've seen fighters literally getting their shorts off on stage an all to try make the weight, are you allowed a small margin to be overweight?

You get 1lb in Nevada.

Swashbuckler

shocksy wrote: »

Quick question, between yesterday an this evenings current weigh ins, I've noticed some fighters over weight, whether it be 0.5lb or 1.0lb and it's not classed as being overweight, but then on other occasions I've seen fighters literally getting their shorts off on stage an all to try make the weight, are you allowed a small margin to be overweight?

For a non title fight you can be 1lb over. For a title fight weight needs to be bang on or less than the limit

shocksy

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

You get 1lb in Nevada.

Thanks for that

Mellor

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

You get 1lb in Nevada.

Is there anywhere that doesn't allow the 1lb grace. I seam to remember a bit of an issue with an event in canada. Metric system involved maybe. GSP v Diaz I think

Subcomandante Marcos

Mellor wrote: »

Is there anywhere that doesn't allow the 1lb grace. I seam to remember a bit of an issue with an event in canada. Metric system involved maybe. GSP v Diaz I think

California for sure has no allowance.

Swashbuckler

Mellor wrote: »

Is there anywhere that doesn't allow the 1lb grace. I seam to remember a bit of an issue with an event in canada. Metric system involved maybe. GSP v Diaz I think

Wasn't that a title fight and gsp was 0.2kg over 170 or something and they rounded down?

Mellor

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

California for sure has no allowance.

California has the same 1lb allowance. 100%.
Here's the results of the last event in california. 14 out of 24 fighters availed of the 1lb grace.
I was under the impression the extra lb was everywhere, at least in all the usual locations.

Swashbuckler

Mellor wrote: »

California has the same 1lb allowance. 100%.
Here's the results of the last event in california. 14 out of 24 fighters availed of the 1lb grace.
I was under the impression the extra lb was everywhere, at least in all the usual locations.

That's what I thought too. Never heard of the 1lb allowance not allowed in a non title fight.

Mellor

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Wasn't that a title fight and gsp was 0.2kg over 170 or something and they rounded down?

Just re-read it there.

It was something like the Canadian AC round down the decimal. Which is essentially the same as a 1lb grace. But they were doing it for the main event too. Then the kg's added to the confusion. He was either bang on 170, or fractions over but they called it 170 at the weigh-in.
GSP said he would of taken his shorts off if he was aware at the time.

Lucas Hood

Its allowed in Massachusetts too . when McGregor fought Siver,Siver was 146.

I remember because Conor made a big deal of being 145.

Lukker-

I was certain all fighters had a 1 lb allowance if it was a non title fight.

riffmongous

Chinese fighter Yang Jian Bing dies after trying to make weight for a fight at One 35

link

weemcd

riffmongous wrote: »

Chinese fighter Yang Jian Bing dies after trying to make weight for a fight at One 35

link

Oh God.

The extreme weight cutting culture in MMA has to stop. However I think this will be incredibly difficult.

Hazys

This is so random and ridiculous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isFTrhOhHlA

CatFromHue

I'd seen the Rory MacDonald one before but it looks like Colgan (Buzz) has set up a new page. There's on there with Paul Redmond and another of him messing in the gym with a movement expert (The Boo).

Depp

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'd seen the Rory MacDonald one before but it looks like Colgan (Buzz) has set up a new page. There's on there with Paul Redmond and another of him messing in the gym with a movement expert (The Boo).

far as i know and i could be wrong the boo actually trains in sbg...meant be fairly good bjj wise

MagicIRL

Posted this in the event thread for tonight. Great to see an Irish gym attracting international fighters. Well deserved for John.

MagicIRL wrote: »

Interesting from JK over on the42.ie
http://www.the42.ie/john-kavanagh-column-11-december-2496597-Dec2015/

"As for Ryan, he was initially due to fight a different opponent on tonight’s card before the reshuffle happened, so I was actually going to be in his corner. Instead, I’ll now obviously be on the opposite side. As soon as the fight is over, however, we’ll renew our good relationship and discuss the possibility of him cementing his connection with SBG."

Hall fighting out of SBG? That would seriously cool! Heel hooks for everyone!

JJayoo

I would have thought TAM might try and snatch him up, Faber seems to have a man crush on him.

CatFromHue

Hall is a snake in the grass