General UFC Chit Chat/News

loremolis · 07-02-2012 11:26pm

I've been following and watching the UFC since UFC 50 something.

I've read a lot of the posts in this thread and on the threads of the specific UFC fights with interest and a couple of random things occur to me in reading them.

1. How the hell does a "fight" last for 25 minutes? I know that these guys are trained well and have great cardio but if two guys go in with the intention of fighting, and I mean actually fighting, to beat the other guy as opposed to surviving and picking him apart to get a decision then the "fight" shouldn't go to 25 minutes. It's becoming the Ultimate Winning Championship. Rashad Evans v Phil Davis is the latest example of such a fight.

2. For some reason the judging has become really bad recently. I think that this problem is linked to 1.
Winning has become so important, many fighters gameplan is to play it safe and often this doesn't allow judges to see who is actually the better fighter because the better fighter is scared to make a mistake that will cost him the fight. While judging errors have always occurred they have become more frequent or at least debated recently.

3. The UFC has reached saturation point. While many people are still finding the sport, the number of events has steadily increased to a point where it's hard to sustain an interest in every single fight. The main and co-main fights have been great recently but the amount of fights has made it hard to follow the entire roster of fighters/fights.

That said, I still wake up on a Sunday morning dying to see the fights that interest me.

Professey Chin · 07-02-2012 11:44pm

loremolis wrote: »

I've been following and watching the UFC since UFC 50 something.

I've read a lot of the posts in this thread and on the threads of the specific UFC fights with interest and a couple of random things occur to me in reading them.

1. How the hell does a "fight" last for 25 minutes? I know that these guys are trained well and have great cardio but if two guys go in with the intention of fighting, and I mean actually fighting, to beat the other guy as opposed to surviving and picking him apart to get a decision then the "fight" shouldn't go to 25 minutes. It's becoming the Ultimate Winning Championship. Rashad Evans v Phil Davis is the latest example of such a fight.

Its very possible for entertaining fights to go 25 minutes. Look at Edgar/Maynard 2, Shogun/Hendo, Cerrone/Henderson among others. A lot depends on perception of exciting and also the age old styles make fights. The participants of any fight make it. Some styles just stifle more and come off as an uneventful fight. Others are guys who can go hell for leather and take the punishment too.

2. For some reason the judging has become really bad recently. I think that this problem is linked to 1.
Winning has become so important, many fighters gameplan is to play it safe and often this doesn't allow judges to see who is actually the better fighter because the better fighter is scared to make a mistake that will cost him the fight. While judging errors have always occurred they have become more frequent or at least debated recently.

Judging has always been like this with controversial decisions everywhere. Its not about the gameplan but the simple fact of the judging rules being very open to interpretation. Some judges count moving forward more effective then countering & vice versa. Then its down to how takedowns are scored, how effective they appear to be judged & many other ways. Its a sport with a ridiculous amount of variables and its going to be a long time before these things can be pinned down(if ever) since new approaches and styles are being experimented with by younger fighters coming in.

3. The UFC has reached saturation point. While many people are still finding the sport, the number of events has steadily increased to a point where it's hard to sustain an interest in every single fight. The main and co-main fights have been great recently but the amount of fights has made it hard to follow the entire roster of fighters/fights.

That said, I still wake up on a Sunday morning dying to see the fights that interest me.

Things used to be much easier for due to smaller events, smaller followings and a much less number of elite fighters. Until not too long ago I could have named off the majority of full cards but its simply not possible anymore. The UFC hasnt hit saturation point worldwide yet as their constant expansion into new markets shows theres still plenty of growing room for them but they will have to split into smaller leagues in a sense. They already are depending how you look at it. Premier League - Numbered Events, Championship - Fox cards(as more occur), Division 2 - Fuel cards & Strikeforce, Feeder - TUF. (Obviously thats not an exact science but in general thats how I see it going). Eventually people are going to have to choose how much they want to watch just like every other sport

Clive · 07-02-2012 11:48pm

loremolis wrote: »

1. How the hell does a "fight" last for 25 minutes? I know that these guys are trained well and have great cardio but if two guys go in with the intention of fighting, and I mean actually fighting, to beat the other guy as opposed to surviving and picking him apart to get a decision then the "fight" shouldn't go to 25 minutes. It's becoming the Ultimate Winning Championship. Rashad Evans v Phil Davis is the latest example of such a fight.

How do football matches last 90 minutes? If two teams go in with the intension of winning surely one will score at least 15 goals on the first 30 minutes?

How do BJJ matches last ten minutes? Wrestling matches 6 minutes? Boxing matches 36 minutes? Muay Thai 15 minutes?

loremolis wrote: »

2. For some reason the judging has become really bad recently. I think that this problem is linked to 1.
Winning has become so important, many fighters gameplan is to play it safe and often this doesn't allow judges to see who is actually the better fighter because the better fighter is scared to make a mistake that will cost him the fight. While judging errors have always occurred they have become more frequent or at least debated recently.

Which fights do you think were judged incorrectly recently? MMA has clear rules and judging criteria, which are identical for both fighters - whoever wins under those criteria is the better fighter in the sport of MMA. Just because some peope don't like their style or choose their own criteria (not based on the actual rules) doesn't mean that the decision was wrong.

El Guapo! · 07-02-2012 11:58pm

loremolis wrote: »

1. How the hell does a "fight" last for 25 minutes? I know that these guys are trained well and have great cardio but if two guys go in with the intention of fighting, and I mean actually fighting, to beat the other guy as opposed to surviving and picking him apart to get a decision then the "fight" shouldn't go to 25 minutes. It's becoming the Ultimate Winning Championship. Rashad Evans v Phil Davis is the latest example of such a fight.

Because it's not a fight to the death and it's not a street fight.
There are a lot of ways to win an mma fight and winning by decision is one of them. I don't think fighters are going out there aiming for a decision victory. I'm sure just about every fighter would like to finish the fight before the judges have to make a decision but the reason for a lot of decision wins could be due to the fact fighters are getting better and are more evenly matched and therefore finding it more difficult to finish the fight.
You could say it's a good thing that decisions are on the rise. That could indicate that fights are getting closer and are not as one-sided but are more evenly matched. Sure we don't get the exciting finishes but a fight thats won by decision can still be as exciting, if not more exciting, than a 1st rd ko.

loremolis wrote: »

2. For some reason the judging has become really bad recently. I think that this problem is linked to 1.
Winning has become so important, many fighters gameplan is to play it safe and often this doesn't allow judges to see who is actually the better fighter because the better fighter is scared to make a mistake that will cost him the fight. While judging errors have always occurred they have become more frequent or at least debated recently.

I agree there has been a lot of poor judging decisions but mma is a difficult sport to judge. The main event at 143 is a prime example. I don't think I've ever seen a fight cause so much controversy and split so many peoples opinions. But in saying that I doubt fighters want to play it safe and "leave it in the hands of the judges"
By "safe gameplan" I assume you mean like Condit on Sat night? Well it was a "safe gameplan". Safe meaning he managed to land shots while avoiding the shots of Diaz. Why would he risk a toe-to-toe brawl and lose the fight? He had the correct gameplan and used it to perfection which is why he now has the interim belt.

loremolis wrote: »

3. The UFC has reached saturation point. While many people are still finding the sport, the number of events has steadily increased to a point where it's hard to sustain an interest in every single fight. The main and co-main fights have been great recently but the amount of fights has made it hard to follow the entire roster of fighters/fights.

There are a lot more events lately with numbered events and fight nights and so on, but the UFC is still a growing organisation and they need to put on event after event to attract more fans. This is the reason they're having TUF Brazil etc. They need to market themselves relentlessly to get the exposure they need to compete with other sports worldwide. They also need to get young new fighters in and build new stars that appeal to the masses.
I think once they get more recognised and increase the fan base they may slow it down a little bit so as not to have fight cards that are less attractive to the fans.

Mellor · 08-02-2012 12:04am

loremolis wrote: »

1. How the hell does a "fight" last for 25 minutes? I know that these guys are trained well and have great cardio but if two guys go in with the intention of fighting, and I mean actually fighting, to beat the other guy as opposed to surviving and picking him apart to get a decision then the "fight" shouldn't go to 25 minutes. It's becoming the Ultimate Winning Championship. Rashad Evans v Phil Davis is the latest example of such a fight.

Because is somebody tried to go 100% from the start until it ends then they'll burn out. The other person only has to defend and then knock them out when they gas. We seen bar brawlers tryign this in the early days and there is a reason that they were easily exploited.
It's pretty standard stuff.

pauldoo · 09-02-2012 8:18pm

Report on bj penn.com that one of the fighters from saturday has failed a drug test

riffmongous · 09-02-2012 9:55pm

I'd be inclined to agree with the over saturation point, I've lost all interest in prelim fights and a lot of main card fights unless there is a fighter I'm a big fan of involved.

loremolis · 09-02-2012 10:13pm

pauldoo wrote: »

Report on bj penn.com that one of the fighters from saturday has failed a drug test

conspiracy theory:
UFC wants diaz v gsp so bad that they've tampered with condit's sample.

El Guapo! · 09-02-2012 10:25pm

loremolis wrote: »

pauldoo wrote: »

Report on bj penn.com that one of the fighters from saturday has failed a drug test

conspiracy theory:
UFC wants diaz v gsp so bad that they've tampered with condit's sample.

You have the choice between Condit and Diaz failing a test. Who's your money gonna be on?!

loremolis · 09-02-2012 10:44pm

Dean09 wrote: »

You have the choice between Condit and Diaz failing a test. Who's your money gonna be on?!

I can't see it being one of them but if it is I'd say Condit. His cardio was unbelievable in that fight.

My money is on Werdum.

the_doctor199 · 09-02-2012 11:22pm

From NSAC: Mr. [Nick] Diaz tested positive for marijuana metabolites. A complaint for disciplinary action against Mr. Diaz has been filed.

And the saga continues..

weemcd · 09-02-2012 11:25pm

Few legit sources say Diaz has failed his test now, disappointed yes, surprised no.

loremolis · 09-02-2012 11:25pm

the_doctor199 wrote: »

And the saga continues..

thanks doc.

that's the re-match out the window.

my apologies to fabricio and carlos

pauldoo · 09-02-2012 11:35pm

What a clown

Bisping has left the wolfslair-good move i think.

Mellor · 10-02-2012 1:04am

loremolis wrote: »

I can't see it being one of them but if it is I'd say Condit. His cardio was unbelievable in that fight.

My money is on Werdum.

Wrong drugs bro!!

Logical Fallacy · 10-02-2012 1:10am

loremolis wrote: »

1. How the hell does a "fight" last for 25 minutes? I know that these guys are trained well and have great cardio but if two guys go in with the intention of fighting, and I mean actually fighting, to beat the other guy as opposed to surviving and picking him apart to get a decision then the "fight" shouldn't go to 25 minutes. It's becoming the Ultimate Winning Championship. Rashad Evans v Phil Davis is the latest example of such a fight.

At the top level of any sport the playing field is quite even...to get the UFC and then into marquee fights you are looking at guys who have a complete skill set, normally a fantastic chin, cardio for days, years of training and the genes to support all of it as well.

loremolis · 10-02-2012 8:27am

Mellor wrote: »

loremolis wrote: »

I can't see it being one of them but if it is I'd say Condit. His cardio was unbelievable in that fight.

My money is on Werdum.

Wrong drugs bro!!

My post was in response to the fact that a fighter had failed a drugs test. Confirmation that it was marijuana came after.

loremolis · 10-02-2012 8:39am

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

loremolis wrote: »

1. How the hell does a "fight" last for 25 minutes? I know that these guys are trained well and have great cardio but if two guys go in with the intention of fighting, and I mean actually fighting, to beat the other guy as opposed to surviving and picking him apart to get a decision then the "fight" shouldn't go to 25 minutes. It's becoming the Ultimate Winning Championship. Rashad Evans v Phil Davis is the latest example of such a fight.

At the top level of any sport the playing field is quite even...to get the UFC and then into marquee fights you are looking at guys who have a complete skill set, normally a fantastic chin, cardio for days, years of training and the genes to support all of it as well.

I accept what you are saying.

It just seems to me that fighting is often the last thing to happen where one guys gameplan is simply to out point the other.

If they come to fight, like Hendo and Shogun then you get a classic but in others like Evans v Davis, a great chin has nothing to do with the fight, it's a 5 round snooze.

the_doctor199 · 10-02-2012 1:18pm

JDS v Overeem on May 26 in Vegas.

Logical Fallacy · 10-02-2012 2:20pm

loremolis wrote: »

I accept what you are saying.

It just seems to me that fighting is often the last thing to happen where one guys gameplan is simply to out point the other.

If they come to fight, like Hendo and Shogun then you get a classic but in others like Evans v Davis, a great chin has nothing to do with the fight, it's a 5 round snooze.

Yeah, but as you said yourself...Hendo and Shogun came to fight and it ended in a decision...so it's not just a matter of people wanting to KO or submit the other person.

the_doctor199 · 10-02-2012 3:28pm

In a wide-ranging late-night chat with his Twitter followers, UFC co-owner Lorenzo Fertitta confirmed several pieces of news, including plans to book Cain Velasquez vs. Frank Mir and Tito Ortiz vs. Forrest Griffin.

In addition to those fights, Fertitta offered his opinions and plans on a variety of issues including:

--The dos Santos-Overeem fight is planned for Memorial Day weekend in Las Vegas.

--Fertitta called a potential superfight between lightweight champion Frankie Edgar and featherweight champion Jose Aldo a "good idea."

--Despite Nick Diaz's positive marijuana test, Fertitta still thinks Diaz has a future in the Octagon. Fertitta wrote, "really like the kid just needs to get it together. I'm a sap for real fighters."

--Fertitta agrees with UFC President Dana White that Jason "Mayhem" Miller looked "terrible" in his loss to Michael Bisping.

--Dominick Cruz vs. Urijah Faber is planned for July 7 in Las Vegas, and Rich Franklin might return for that event as well.

--It hasn't been determined yet whether Carlos Condit will defend the interim welterweight title or wait to fight Georges St. Pierre.

--Fertitta likes the potential of lightweight Stephen Thompson, a karate specialist whose head kick won the Knockout of the Night bonus at UFC 143.

--Fertitta, who always looks ripped, says he can bench press 340 pounds.

--Asked if Jon Jones might fight Anderson Silva some day, Fertitta said, "maybe."

--The UFC would be interested in signing Bellator's Hector Lombard and Alexander Shlemenko.

--Chuck Liddell is Fertitta's favorite fighter.

--Fertitta would still consider signing Fedor Emelianenko, if it were at the right price.

--The upcoming Brazilian season of The Ultimate Fighter will likely be available with English subtitles on UFC.com.

Link

Zero-Cool · 10-02-2012 3:32pm

Please please Frank just take down Cain and use your BJJ! Would love to see Mir go for a title shot but his chin just can't keep up with these big hitters!

weemcd · 10-02-2012 4:32pm

Cain to do a Brock Lesnar II on Mir, Big Nog should have had Mir finished in their fight with strikes until he changed to go for a submission, I think Cain has the power to take this fight on the feet and early

Professey Chin · 10-02-2012 7:59pm

Dont see a hope of Mir being able to get Cain to the ground

pauldoo · 11-02-2012 12:56am

http://www.ufc.com/media/ufc-ultimate-insider-1

pretty good show-Jon Anik's head looks huge in the bones interview

Mellor · 11-02-2012 1:38am

loremolis wrote: »

My post was in response to the fact that a fighter had failed a drugs test. Confirmation that it was marijuana came after.

well my post was a joke.
But to be honest, Conduits cardio was unlikely to be drugs related, so i thought ut was a poor theory. Especially when Diaz has repeated tested positive for weed, skipped drugs tests and said he won't quit smoking it.

MrStuffins · 13-02-2012 1:53am

Johny Hendricks v Josh Koscheck confirmed for UFC on Fox 3

tower08 · 13-02-2012 6:00am

MrStuffins wrote: »

Johny Hendricks v Josh Koscheck confirmed for UFC on Fox 3

Looks like its going to be a great card, plenty of exticing match ups!

Ush1 · 13-02-2012 12:50pm

Watched 143 in 3D on my 3D telly. Was pretty cool actually. Certain shots were 2D but it certainly added to the experience.

El Guapo! · 13-02-2012 10:01pm

LINK

Rousimar Palhares will fight on network television after all.
After turning down a primetime spot opposite Demian Maia at UFC on Fox 2, Palhares has agreed to meet Alan Belcher in a key middleweight tilt at UFC on Fox 3, slated for May 5 at the IZOD Center in East Rutherford, New Jersey. UFC President Dana White announced the match-up on Monday via Twitter.
The bout is expected to fill out the final slot of the four-fight Fox main card, which also includes Jim Miller vs. Nate Diaz, Josh Koscheck vs. Johny Hendricks, and Lavar Johnson vs. Pat Barry.

Both men are established Octagon veterans with a 15-6 combined promotional record, and have driven their name into title contention on the wings of recent three-fight win streaks.
At 31 years old, Palhares (14-3) cemented his reputation as MMA's fiercest leg lock practitioner by tapping out Mike Massenzio via heel hook in just 63 seconds at UFC 142, earning his second ‘Submission of the Night' bonus in the process. "Toquinho" has now tasted victory in six of his last seven contests, with four of those wins ending via kneebar or heel hook.
Likewise, Belcher (17-6) has proven to be one of the middleweight division's most devastating finishers, with 15 of his 17 wins staying out of the judges' hands. The 27-year-old standout recently returned from a 16-month layoff after undergoing emergency eye surgery in mid-2010, to blitz through Jason MacDonald en route to a first-round stoppage at UFC Fight Night 25. The win pushed Belcher's record to 5-1 over his last six fights, including ‘Submission of the Night' victories over Patrick Cote and Denis Kang.

I really like Belcher and I hope he wins this one.
Could be a difficult fight for him though against Palhares.

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