General UFC Chit Chat/News

DrPhilG

He said previously that the winner of Vera-Shogun OR the winner of Bader-Machida would get the shot depending on who won in the most impressive fashion.

Maybe that was just a ploy to try and get them all to put on a show as it's on Fox.

MrStuffins

Or to try and attach the label of "No.1 Contender Match" to the Main Event as the Fox shows are aimed not towards "proper" fans but those who wouldn't know Brandon Vera from Patrick Vieira!

Be like Nutella

Vera or Shogun? You're kiddin me... Shogun is nowhere near his best any more and wouldn't have a breeze of a chance and Vera...christ... anyway it don't matter... hell you could include Silva and any one of the lower 5 of the top 10 HW and Jones is still guaranteed to win... he's unbeatable end of story. There is no interesting fights left for titles at 185 or 205... I reckon so anyway.

Bader and Vera shouldn't even be in the same sentence as Jones... ever... ever.

MrStuffins

Be like Nutella wrote: »

Vera or Shogun? You're kiddin me... Shogun is nowhere near his best any more and wouldn't have a breeze of a chance and Vera...christ... anyway it don't matter... hell you could include Silva and any one of the lower 5 of the top 10 HW and Jones is still guaranteed to win... he's unbeatable end of story. There is no interesting fights left for titles at 185 or 205... I reckon so anyway.

Jones is by FAR the best 205er in the world.

Unbeatable? I don't know how you can say that. It's yet to be seen! Everybody can be beaten IMO!

Be like Nutella

he's already spanked everyone ffs... Machida, Rua, Jackson, Bader, Evans.... Bader, Evans and Rua don't deserve rematches. If anyone has a chance at actually beating him now it's Machida and his strange style and employing wishful thinking here (he did some interesting things vs Jones)

Dan is an absolute legendary hero of the sport, almost mythical at this stage, I love the guy but the man is 42 years old in a couple weeks time and has taken so much punishment it's just not right to say he has a great chance at beating Jones - he simply doesn't he will be embarrassed and beaten badly from the outside by Jones reach, and footwork until he's tired and then he's going down, all logic points to this. Has Dan got a powerful enough punch? , deffo, has he ever fought anyone where there's less of a chance of landing that punch? no. This is literally the worst opponent for him too late in his career.

Gustaffson and Mousasi are interesting to consider but, Gustaffson is clearly a weaker version of Jones, slower, less accurate, physically less gifted, doesn't hit as hard... is still good and will make a possible future hype train, but alas will lose, badly and be finally thought of as completely over rated.

Mousasi, I thought he had the goods a few years back but he never really realized the hype in that he never made it to the big time and fought the best but again, would make a decent hype train... and although a more quality fighter than Gust IMO - would lose, badly.

That leaves, Phil Davis, Griffin and Lawal - and the less said the better about them so... that's it. No interesting fights left... and same is true for 185 til Silva fecks off. I used to love the winner, the best guy... the Fedors (once) and Silvas (still) and so forth but now I'm missing the lack of potential for wars... unpredictability... and that's the problem Dana has with these 'winners'... where's the drama (Chael did a good job of compensating for that mind you... in the end to no avail...cept Danas wallet)

scudzilla

So it's gonna be Hendo v Shogun for the title then? Maybe the NYE card. Should be a good scrap

pauldoo

im sick of vera, and his horse**** in these countdown shows...hes changed, hes focused, hes turned things around..... i hope shogun goes through him, hopefully shogun is fit

pauldoo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpwoEwRlYoc

countdown show!

scudzilla

Be like Nutella wrote: »

Dan is an absolute legendary hero of the sport, almost mythical at this stage, I love the guy but the man is 42 years old in a couple weeks time and has taken so much punishment it's just not right to say he has a great chance at beating Jones - he simply doesn't he will be embarrassed and beaten badly from the outside by Jones reach, and footwork until he's tired and then he's going down, all logic points to this. Has Dan got a powerful enough punch? , deffo, has he ever fought anyone where there's less of a chance of landing that punch? no. This is literally the worst opponent for him too late in his career.

I reckon Hendo will take Jones, by 1st Round KO

Hendo is far from stupid, he's got bags of experience and knows he hasn't a prayer if this fight goes into the championship rounds, what he does have though is one of the hardest punches in the LHW division.

I can see him coming out swinging and attacking from the opening bell and catching Jones.

Mellor

weemcd wrote: »

On the conference call today Dana has said winner of Shogun vs Vera gets the next shot at the title. Think this is very premature, Vera is nowhere near top 10 & 9 months from his last fight, and shogun is L-W-L-W-L in his last 5.

Wins/Loses alone don't tell the whole picture.

Those 3 Ls for example.
1: The first doesn't count agaisnt him. He beat Machida.
2: The second was Jones, does count against a rematch at this stae a whole lot given everyone in the top 5 has a loss verses Jones at this stage.
3: The third was a very close decision with the current No1 contender and was fight of the year for most people.

Proper matchmaking would have winner of Machida vs Bader square off against the winner or Rua vs Vera and then we would have a genuine #1 contender.

That's would take 6-8 months before one of them could fight Jones and would mean Jones is waiting a year to defend. That's not proper matchmaking.

Simply, Jones has to defend by of the year. Which means a repeat opponent as nobody else has risen up yet.
It's not ideal but what else can you expect when he beats the top 5 guys in the space of 14 months.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Vera shouldn't be anywhere near a title shot!

Realistically he is no closer to a title shot after that announcement.

DrPhilG

Mellor wrote: »

That's would take 6-8 months before one of them could fight Jones and would mean Jones is waiting a year to defend. That's not proper matchmaking.

Simply, Jones has to defend by of the year. Which means a repeat opponent as nobody else has risen up yet.
It's not ideal but what else can you expect when he beats the top 5 guys in the space of 14 months.

I'd give Gustafson the shot before Vera or Shogun. Vera is a constant underachiever coming off a decision against Elliott Marshall. Shogun will be on a 1 fight streak (although I take your point about recent losses).

MrStuffins

Dana has now said that Machida & Bader are fighting for the same title shot. Not a bad way to go about it I guess, have a choice between 4 fighters.

Although let's face it, Jones has already beaten 3 of them and the other one shouldn't be near the title.

From a fighting point of view, best possible outcome is probably Shogun getting the shot and Hendo beating Jones in order to set up a Hando v Shogun rematch for the title!

Shazbot

MrStuffins wrote: »

Dana has now said that Machida & Bader are fighting for the same title shot. Not a bad way to go about it I guess, have a choice between 4 fighters.

Although let's face it, Jones has already beaten 3 of them and the other one shouldn't be near the title.

This is a bit stupid. Vera and Bader aren't even top 5. Jones has taken out all 4 opponents already and the only one who gave him real trouble was Machida in round 1. I'd love to see Hendo beat Jones and then get Shogun vs Hendo 2 but I think Jones will win and we'll get Jones vs Shogun 2. Maybe Shogun will be able to fair better a second time around.

Unfortunately there's no one else ready. Maybe Gustaffson or Davis if they can get wins over top 5 opponents.

MrStuffins

Shazbot wrote: »

This is a bit stupid. Vera and Bader aren't even top 5. Jones has taken out all 4 opponents already and the only one who gave him real trouble was Machida in round 1. I'd love to see Hendo beat Jones and then get Shogun vs Hendo 2 but I think Jones will win and we'll get Jones vs Shogun 2. Maybe Shogun will be able to fair better a second time around.

Unfortunately there's no one else ready. Maybe Gustaffson or Davis if they can get wins over top 5 opponents.

Actually forgot that he'd beaten Vera too!

Just shows how dominant Jones is. Hendo is the only guy left he hasn't beat. Any other opponents (like Gustaffson or Davis) are really a stretch to find a contender!

Easy Rod

Am i giving Dana too much respect in thinking that this is a great move to motivate all four fighters to perform and put on a show after lacklustre fights in UFC 149?

Vera has the talent but always seems to be too cautious/gun-shy/scared to do anything. I think this is Dana telling him this is a once in a lifetime oppurtunity and he needs to just go out and get loose.

Could work out for us fans....i hope.

MrStuffins

Easy Rod wrote: »

Am i giving Dana too much respect in thinking that this is a great move to motivate all four fighters to perform and put on a show after lacklustre fights in UFC 149?

Possibly but should he really be showing such contempt for the belt? Belittling the prestige of being a Champion/fighting for the title in exchange for higher ratings on Fox?

El Guapo!

To be fair, it is a priority of Danas to get high ratings and to do anything he can to boost the ratings. Higher ratings = more money in his pocket. And to be honest the LHW division is becoming shallower by the day so there weren't to many options left.
What really needs to be done is to shake up the division a bit and possibly bring in some new blood from Strikeforce and other organisations of possible. There's not many (if any) potential threats to Jones at the minute and some new exciting fighters on the roster might be just what the division needs.

MrStuffins

It depends on your definition of "shallow" I guess.

IMO the division is as competitive as ever, except for the fact that the gap between jones and everyone else is HUGE!

I don't think there's anybody you can bring in to challenge Jones right now. Anyone they bring in (Mousasi? Feijao?) wouldn't be anywhere near Top 5 when they made the move.

El Guapo!

Thats what I meant when I said shallow. I probably should've used a different word.
What I mean is there are no immediate legitimate threats to the title at the minute and that doesn't look like its gonna change anytime soon.
You are right on the point that even if the UFC did decide to bring in some new guys, there probably still wouldn't be any legitimate threats there.
It's just getting tough for the UFC to create a convincing title fight.

Ush1

What happened to Jones having a fight at heavyweight at the end of year if he beats Hendo?

I think nobody is a challenge to him at LHW. You've got a mini tournament with 4 fighters going for a title shot, 3 of which are coming off a loss. All of which have already lost to the current champion, all of which were decisive finishes.

I would have had Phil Davis somewhere in that four but I reckon the UFC didn't want him the main event after not so explosive main event of UFC on Fox 2.

EDIT: Just realised Bader beat Rampage also.

El Guapo!

I have a solution..............





BRING BACK FRANK SHAMROCK!!

Ush1

How about, if Glover beats Rampage then title shot or title eliminator with Gustafsson or Davis(if he wins)?

Or Glover fights the winner on Saturday that doesn't get the title shot FOR a title shot?

weemcd

Mellor wrote: »

Simply, Jones has to defend by of the year. Which means a repeat opponent as nobody else has risen up yet.
It's not ideal but what else can you expect when he beats the top 5 guys in the space of 14 months.

Why, because Dana needs $$'s and Jones has to be wheeled out once more before the year finishes? In my opinion a #1 contender should have two solid wins against top competition in a row at the absolute minimum, I know how back and forth the Hendo fight was, but a loss is a loss. I would much rather he was kept for a legit contender, I'm a huge Rua fan, consider him my favourite fighter, but he is not ready for Jones just yet. Beating Vera means little, Vera is a nothing opponent as far as I'm concerned. I think Rua has this figt sown up, but the thought of Vera walking into a title shot off with a win a hot and cold Shogun doesn't sit easy with me.

Rua vs Machida III still intrigues me more, hope we have the chance to see it down the line. With Dana saying Machida vs Bader are also in the mix I could see the winners of both fights square off.

Be like Nutella

I second Rua v Machida III... would love that to happen. Actually that would be my fav match in that div right now. Make it happen !

My God do yee remember how good Machida was...ahem...supposed to be...actually that's a little unfair he was/is awesome...anyway here's a link to the Rua v Machida II fight if anyone hasn't seen it or wants to again... great tension great fight.. I think Rua looked so much better just at that moment.... and it's only

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player/mma/UFC/24492906#mma/UFC/24492906

I keep forgettin he's only 30... but only fought 3 times in the 2 years since that fight... lost 2 out of 3 of those.


Two things:
1) Could he drop successfully to 185 lb now?

2) How awesome would Silva V Shogun be.... mmmmmmmm... now there's a fight I haven't fantasized about... would love that fight!.. Same sort of size as Silva (well Silva between camps anyway)

Won 12 of 13 fights in Pride incl beating the **** out of Ubereem when he was just Medium-ereem... what a beast... maybe he was juicin back then who knows but he ain't the same guy now.. at his best in Pride I'd have given him a chance against Jones... not messin... a chance!

Best way to look at 205 is as an 'also ran' division... seriously... it seems way more interesting then. That's the way I'm gona view it.

p to the e

It's odd that Jones has beaten all four of the headliners in this event but what might strike a note is that both Vera and Shogun have said in the past that they were unmotivated to train hard for the Jones fight. Whether this is true or not only they know.

The Vera Shogun fight should be entertaining enough but people forget that Vera had a solid background in wrestling before he ever took up MMA so we might see a decent grappling game.

What's shocking is that Machida really needs this win. If he loses he will have only beaten Randy Couture in his last 5 fights and although I don't think he will be cut it will certainly push right down the pecking order.

In other news Kyle Noke, a personal favourite of mine, has been scheduled to take on Charlie Brenneman at UFC 151
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/7/31/3207027/kyle-noke-vs-charlie-brenneman-scheduled-for-ufc-151

the_doctor199

New ESPN deal signed until August 2013.

Mellor

weemcd wrote: »

Why, because Dana needs $$'s and Jones has to be wheeled out once more before the year finishes?

Because if he doesn't fight by the end if the year that will be almost 9 months since he defended. Without an injury or tough fight to recover from thats an excessive layoff. Its got absolutely nothing to do with money, I'm not sure how that point was supposed to make sense. Why would I care about Dana making money???

The simply fact is Jones is so much better than everyone else, we don't have a anyone who looks like they could test him. We have to accept that. The fact that he has beaten the top 5 contenders already doesn't remove them from the top 10. They are still above the guys working up through the 205 ranks like Gustaffson.

tonymontana82

the_doctor199 wrote: »

New ESPN deal signed until August 2013.

I thougth they were trying to do a deal with sky sports?? espn`s coverage of mma is very limited, they never show any old coverage of fights. sky would really push mma i reckon.

SDTimeout

Shogun beats Anderson Silva I think, assuming he could make the cut and cardio wouldn't be an issue. I also think Shogun is the only LHW who will touch Jones ( probably won't beat him, but best chance )

The Jones and Henderson fights took a year or two off Shoguns career that's for sure so there aren't many fights left.

I think if Shogun and Machida win on Saturday they should fight in a title eliminator or if either wins very convincingly give them the title shot.

What I would like to see happen is Shogun decimates Vera at the weekend and faces Jones at the turn of 2013. Machida beats Bader ( I don't think he will though, it's a tough fight for Machida style wise ) and then goes into a fight with Alex Gustafsson.

Meanwhile Glover beats Rampage later on in the year and fights either Machida or Gustafsson.

The reason I don't give Machida the title fight after the Gustafsson fight is because I don't want Jones to fight Shogun and Machida again so soon after beating them.

It's a shallow division at the moment but the UFC can get 3/4 more feasible title challengers for Jones if they play it right and the timing works out.

Mellor

MrStuffins wrote: »

It depends on your definition of "shallow" I guess.

IMO the division is as competitive as ever, except for the fact that the gap between jones and everyone else is HUGE!

Agree.
It's not shallow as it has more talent than ever (and was always a stacked division). But it's not what id call competitive, not jones on the top of the heap.