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Speed camera mega-thread ***Read first post before posting***

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    #782
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    hellboy99 wrote: »
    Because a lot think it's nothing but a money making scam. We were told that these vans were to be placed on sections of road where they have been accidents, not the case and secondly if what a previous poster here has said is correct a out the van being unmarked that does not help the company that operate them in convincing the public that it is not a money racket either.

    That's an interesting theory, and one that I find plausible and therefore worrying.

    However, not everyone agrees with you/us:
    draffodx wrote: »
    That act was perpetrated by mindless thugs who have no value for life, its highly unlikely they have any interest in the debate on speed cameras at all, in fact as stated it is unlikely they even know how to read.


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    #783
    Dempo1
    Registered Users Posts: 26,978 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    -Chris- wrote: »
    A) the unmarked ones are survey vans

    B)NOBODY deserves to be burned alive for doing their job.

    Survey Vans my arse, what are they surveying at 5am in the morning?

    And yes, absolutely nobody deserves to be burnt alive doing their Jobs.

    I again wonder WTF what was such a van doing at 5am in the morning and i don't believe for one minute it was manned or in operation. And no, i am not condoning this disgraceful act, but would like some ansewers as to why this Van was were it was and at the time mentioned in media reports.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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    #784
    hellboy99
    Registered Users Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭hellboy99


    -Chris- wrote: »
    A) the unmarked ones are survey vans

    B)NOBODY deserves to be burned alive for doing their job.
    Don't get me wrong, I agree that no one deserves what happened and what was done is wrong but wouldn't it be a better idea to have the survey vans clearly marked as survey vans.


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    #785
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Hypothesis: an arson attack at 04:45 on such a vehicle on such a road is unlikely to have been carried out by mindless thugs with reading difficulties.

    Nope, but it certainly wasn't carried out by your run-of-the-mill person who disagrees with the implementation of speed cameras either.

    It was carried out by criminals, and I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say I hope they're caught and prosecuted.


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    #786
    Atomic Pineapple
    Registered Users Posts: 18,272 ✭✭✭✭Atomic Pineapple


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Total speculation framed as categorical and informed statement. I posed a question (re possible motivation), I did not attempt to state as fact.

    You attempted to link the behavior of criminals with the opinions of people who are not in favour of speed cameras, as per your posts in another thread, you are of the opinion that those that speak out against speed cameras are the cause of an attempted murder which is ludicrous, putting a question mark at the end of your sentence doesn't hide your opinion.
    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Non sequitur.

    I do believe English is the chosen language for Boards.ie and you are expected to use it, your use of Latin fools no one.
    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Mere subjective opinion. Please identify the specific rule in this forum or on Boards generally which clearly and unambiguously identifies my posts as trolling.

    A rule does not exist that identifies trolling, the rule only states that there is to be no trolling, I do believe that ten years experience on Boards.ie gives me an in dept insight on how to identify a troll.


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    #787
    Atomic Pineapple
    Registered Users Posts: 18,272 ✭✭✭✭Atomic Pineapple


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    Survey Vans my arse, what are they surveying at 5am in the morning?

    And yes, absolutely nobody deserves to be burnt alive doing their Jobs.

    I again wonder WTF what was such a van doing at 5am in the morning and i don't believe for one minute it was manned or in operation. And no, i am not condoning this disgraceful act, but would like some ansewers as to why this Van was were it was and at the time mentioned in media reports.

    Of course it was manned, thats what the government are paying for. The cameras don't run unmanned.

    The van was surveying to see if the road contains X amount of speeders during the hours it is deployed. If it reaches above X amount then the road is marked as somewhere that live cameras should be deployed.
    hellboy99 wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong, I agree that no one deserves what happened and what was done is wrong but wouldn't it be a better idea to have the survey vans clearly marked as survey vans.

    No, if the purpose of the van is to simply observe why should it be marked?


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    #788
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    hellboy99 wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong, I agree that no one deserves what happened and what was done is wrong but wouldn't it be a better idea to have the survey vans clearly marked as survey vans.

    Maybe the point is to survey what the normal driving speed of people is on that stretch of the road, and by clearly marking the van it would probably lead to people altering their speed because they think it's a speed camera van.

    It'd be like surveying poor driving standards while in a fully marked Garda car - most people drive like nuns when they see a Garda car in their rear-view mirror.



    Dempo1 wrote: »
    I again wonder WTF what was such a van doing at 5am in the morning and i don't believe for one minute it was manned or in operation. And no, i am not condoning this disgraceful act, but would like some ansewers as to why this Van was were it was and at the time mentioned in media reports.

    Why wouldn't they survey at 5am? The cameras will be operating at 5am.

    Why don't you think it was manned? There obviously was an operator in the vicinity or else you'd be reading articles about drivers passing a burned out and abandoned speed camera van between 5am and 8am this morning (or whenever shift change happens).

    Maybe they were where they were so they could survey the traffic and possibly recommend another site for placement of a speed camera van to the Gardai (or to recommend against it because all drivers on that road behave?).


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    #789
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    draffodx wrote: »
    you are of the opinion that those that speak out against speed cameras are the cause of an attempted murder

    More specious argument. Straw man: aka attacking something of your own invention that I didn't actually say.
    draffodx wrote: »
    your use of Latin fools no one.

    And who is being fooled by your use of non sequiturs, I wonder?
    draffodx wrote: »
    A rule does not exist that identifies trolling, the rule only states that there is to be no trolling, I do believe that ten years experience on Boards.ie gives me an in dept insight on how to identify a troll.

    Thank you for confirming that I am breaking no Boards rule. So trolling is what draffodx says it is? That's just more specious argument: this time the Bellman Fallacy.


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    #790
    hellboy99
    Registered Users Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭hellboy99


    -Chris- wrote: »
    Maybe the point is to survey what the normal driving speed of people is on that stretch of the road, and by clearly marking the van it would probably lead to people altering their speed because they think it's a speed camera van.

    It'd be like surveying poor driving standards while in a fully marked Garda car - most people drive like nuns when they see a Garda car in their rear-view mirror.
    Hold on a minute, thats a flawed argument you make, the whole point of this company coming in was to "not make money on speeding fines", they themselves stated this along with the Garda comissioner, Minister for Transport and the NRA. So whats wrong with people slowing down then when they see a survey van, isn't that the whole point, "to slow people down?"


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    #791
    montane
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 245 ✭✭montane


    hellboy99 wrote: »
    Hold on a minute, thats a flawed argument you make, the whole point of this company coming in was to "not make money on speeding fines", they themselves stated this along with the Garda comissioner, Minister for Transport and the NRA. So whats wrong with people slowing down then when they see a survey van, isn't that the whole point, "to slow people down?"

    The point is to slow people down over a 15km stretch of road, as outlined in the garda map, where a speed van may possibly be, as opposed to slowing down for 3 seconds because you see a clearly marked van.


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    #792
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    @iwannahurl & draffodx - please drop the handbags and let's move the conversation on.


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    #793
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    -Chris- wrote: »
    Maybe the point is to survey what the normal driving speed of people is on that stretch of the road, and by clearly marking the van it would probably lead to people altering their speed because they think it's a speed camera van.

    It'd be like surveying poor driving standards while in a fully marked Garda car - most people drive like nuns when they see a Garda car in their rear-view mirror.






    Why wouldn't they survey at 5am? The cameras will be operating at 5am.

    Why don't you think it was manned? There obviously was an operator in the vicinity or else you'd be reading articles about drivers passing a burned out and abandoned speed camera van between 5am and 8am this morning (or whenever shift change happens).

    Maybe they were where they were so they could survey the traffic and possibly recommend another site for placement of a speed camera van to the Gardai (or to recommend against it because all drivers on that road behave?).

    Good analysis.

    If that's the case then the van, while not hi viz, may well have looked like a mobile speed/safety camera unit.

    Bear in mind also that elsewhere in this forum members have been speculating whether different vans might be mobile units. Somebody* might have gone for a closer look with devilment in mind.

    That said, I am a bit surprised that a survey would be done so early. Not much traffic? Or is there an association between frequency of speeding/collisions and that hour of the morning (which would prompt assessment of a particular site for later monitoring)?

    *Not a member of Boards, I hasten to add, lest there be any misunderstanding.


  • Options
    #794
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    hellboy99 wrote: »
    Hold on a minute, thats a flawed argument you make, the whole point of this company coming in was to "not make money on speeding fines", they themselves stated this along with the Garda comissioner, Minister for Transport and the NRA. So whats wrong with people slowing down then when they see a survey van, isn't that the whole point, "to slow people down?"

    The knowledge that there may be speed cameras out there should slow people down.

    The speed camera vans should (very visibly) catch people who don't slow down.

    The survey vans should allow the Garda and everyone else to measure the changes in driver behaviour due to the implementation of the speed camera vans. These surveys couldn't properly be carried out in a marked van.


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    #795
    JamesBond2010
    Registered Users Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭JamesBond2010


    Just Saw where it was parked on the News. It looked like it was nearly parked on the side of the road on a ditch. He would nearly cause a crash there.& it was snowing there 2. there is all snow on the Road!!


  • Options
    #796
    Atomic Pineapple
    Registered Users Posts: 18,272 ✭✭✭✭Atomic Pineapple


    hellboy99 wrote: »
    Hold on a minute, thats a flawed argument you make, the whole point of this company coming in was to "not make money on speeding fines", they themselves stated this along with the Garda comissioner, Minister for Transport and the NRA. So whats wrong with people slowing down then when they see a survey van, isn't that the whole point, "to slow people down?"

    Survey vans are not about slowing people down, they are not part of the speed camera network and are instead used to monitor driver speeds covertly as well as train new recruitments in a covert manner, no one will receive points/fines from a surveying van.


  • Options
    #797
    hellboy99
    Registered Users Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭hellboy99


    Just to let people know, this van was not parked in known accident black spot, it was also parked on private property and the owner had asked the van driver to move off his property and he did not.


  • Options
    #798
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Good analysis.

    If that's the case then the van, while not hi viz, may well have looked like a mobile speed/safety camera unit.

    For someone switched on, I'm sure they spotted the camera in the rear window as they passed. A large proportion of motorists would have been largely oblivious.

    It's the same way that I can (generally) spot an unmarked Garda car a mile away while my wife often misses them.

    Different people have their antennae tuned into different things.

    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Bear in mind also that elsewhere in this forum members have been speculating whether different vans might be mobile units. Somebody* might have gone for a closer look with devilment in mind.

    I'm pretty happy that whoever approached the van with some form of incendiary device had more than devilment in mind. I'm not sure what your point is though...

    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    That said, I am a bit surprised that a survey would be done so early. Not much traffic?

    Cars, driving in the dark, on a quiet road, that was likely either icy or snowy? I'd certainly be surveying it.

    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Or is there an association between frequency of speeding/collisions and that hour of the morning (which would prompt assessment of a particular site for later monitoring)?

    You'll only find that association by surveying the traffic and comparing it to collisions I guess...

    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    *Not a member of Boards, I hasten to add, lest there be any misunderstanding.

    I'm sure nobody would believe you were inferring such a thing.


  • Options
    #799
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    hellboy99 wrote: »
    Just to let people know, this van was not parked in known accident black spot

    So?


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    #800
    Dempo1
    Registered Users Posts: 26,978 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    -Chris- wrote: »
    @iwannahurl & draffodx - please drop the handbags and let's move the conversation on.

    LOL:D

    Still curious as to why a SURVEY (NOT) van was out at the now update time of 4.45am. Just bizzare!

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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    #801
    Atomic Pineapple
    Registered Users Posts: 18,272 ✭✭✭✭Atomic Pineapple


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    LOL:D

    Still curious as to why a SURVEY (NOT) van was out at the now update time of 4.45am. Just bizzare!

    Most fatal collisions occur early in the mornings.


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    #802
    JamesBond2010
    Registered Users Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭JamesBond2010


    The Guards are supposed to be getting one of these new Traffic cop cars for the Motorway. so they will catch any Speeders:D:D

    136423.jpg


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    #803
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    You know what, I wouldn't mind being pulled over by that.

    Hopefully I'd be doing something bad enough that they'd tow my car and give me a lift back to the station.... :D


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    #804
    JamesBond2010
    Registered Users Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭JamesBond2010


    -Chris- wrote: »
    You know what, I wouldn't mind being pulled over by that.

    Hopefully I'd be doing something bad enough that they'd tow my car and give me a lift back to the station.... :D

    thats would be gas Guards beside u waving in the Window:D:D:D
    Minister can we have 500,000 for 2 new patrols cars!!!:p:p


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    #805
    hellboy99
    Registered Users Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭hellboy99


    -Chris- wrote: »
    So?
    Superintendent Con O'Donohue, head of the Garda Office for Safety Camera Management, said the company would be directed by gardai as to the location, time and duration of the checks. The 6,000 hours of checks every month would be focused on the identified speed-enforcement zones which had a history of speed-related death and injury.
    "These checks will not be hidden".

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/private-speed-cameras-to-target-drivers-after-dark-2202024.html
    Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy said “Inappropriate speed is the single greatest contributory factor in
    road deaths and serious injuries. In recent years we have worked to identify those roads which have the
    greatest propensity for speed related collisions and this is where we direct our enforcement activity. The
    signing of this contract today enables us to supplement existing enforcement and ensure the deployment of
    enforcement technology to even more areas where it can have even greater impact”.

    http://www.redflex.com/public_documents/asx_announcements/2009-11-23%20Ireland.pdf
    Excessive or inappropriate speeding is a major factor in road traffic collisions. Safety cameras will be on the roads all across Ireland where fatal collisions are happening as a result of inappropriate speed.

    http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=5590&Lang=1


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    #806
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Please explain further, I fail to see how this addresses the positioning of this SURVEY VAN.


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    #807
    Voodoomelon
    Registered Users Posts: 9,660 ✭✭✭Voodoomelon


    -Chris- wrote: »
    Nope, but it certainly wasn't carried out by your run-of-the-mill person who disagrees with the implementation of speed cameras either.

    It was carried out by criminals, and I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say I hope they're caught and prosecuted.

    I normally agree with you Chris, but i completely fail to see how you and others are ruling out a semi-intelligent person taking action against the new speed camera system. Yes its a criminal act and I don't condone it in any way, but to write it off as an act of mindless damage makes no sense to me, considering the current climate of anger and dismay amoungst us all.

    It would not surprise me in the least if someone took it into their own hands to take one of these vans out, much like the problems they had in the UK, and had no idea there was a Garda inside. Thankfully he got out in time.


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    #808
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Voodoomelon wrote: »
    I normally agree with you Chris, but i completely fail to see how you and others are ruling out a semi-intelligent person taking action against the new speed camera system. Yes its a criminal act and I don't condone it in any way, but to write it off as an act of mindless damage makes no sense to me, considering the current climate of anger and dismay amoungst us all.

    It would not surprise me in the least if someone took it into their own hands to take one of these vans out, much like the problems they had in the UK, and had no idea there was a Garda inside. Thankfully he got out in time.

    I'm just looking at it from the perspective that any semi-intelligent or reasonable person will be aware that burning out a van will not affect the implementation or effectiveness of the speed camera vans, all it does is destroy someone else's property.

    I do (strongly) agree that people have the right to protest against things that they don't agree with, but setting fire to a van is hardly an effective form of protest imho.


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    #809
    Atomic Pineapple
    Registered Users Posts: 18,272 ✭✭✭✭Atomic Pineapple


    Voodoomelon wrote: »
    I normally agree with you Chris, but i completely fail to see how you and others are ruling out a semi-intelligent person taking action against the new speed camera system. Yes its a criminal act and I don't condone it in any way, but to write it off as an act of mindless damage makes no sense to me, considering the current climate of anger and dismay amoungst us all.

    It would not surprise me in the least if someone took it into their own hands to take one of these vans out, much like the problems they had in the UK, and had no idea there was a Garda inside. Thankfully he got out in time.

    They are still criminals for taking part in such an act, for someone not to know a person was inside despite all the coverage that shows they are manned suggests a lack of intelligence to me and to think destroying the van while putting a human life at risk suggests an uncivilised person. Despite how much anger anyone feels only someone that is essentially a scumbag would act on such anger to endanger a life for the sake of 2 penalty points and €80.


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    #810
    Voodoomelon
    Registered Users Posts: 9,660 ✭✭✭Voodoomelon


    I'd agree, but the location of the incident would indicate to me that it was pre-planned, its not in or close to a residential area. Maybe they're trying to start a trend throughout the country? Pack of gimps non the less.


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    #811
    Atomic Pineapple
    Registered Users Posts: 18,272 ✭✭✭✭Atomic Pineapple


    Voodoomelon wrote: »
    I'd agree, but the location of the incident would indicate to me that it was pre-planned, its not in or close to a residential area. Maybe they're trying to start a trend throughout the country? Pack of gimps non the less.

    I'd imagine someone came across it and decided to go get some petrol and come back and burn it. I hope whoever done it is caught and trialled for attempted murder anyway.


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