Speed camera mega-thread ***Read first post before posting***

Iwannahurl

Dempo1 wrote: »

Welcome Back!:pac:

Thanks! :pac:

Nice to be back in familiar territory.

Now, where were we...?

Eoin

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I had responded to the most recent comment along those lines, but I think it was removed by a Mod (too minimal perhaps).

Yep - a "rolleyes" icon on its own is not making a point; it's just rather annoying.

Iwannahurl

eoin wrote: »

Yep - a "rolleyes" icon on its own is not making a point; it's just rather annoying.

Saves time though, and reduces the incidence of RSI.

Especially since the "money-making scam" emotive rhetoric just keeps coming up over and over again...

Iwannahurl

irishconvert wrote: »

If it's not a money making scam would you agree that they should remove the fine aspect of the offence and just give penalty points for speeding convictions?

That's a good question.

1. The fact that the payment involved is purely voluntary guarantees that it's not a true scam. Or look at it another way: anyone who sees a well-publicised scam and still allows themselves to be fleeced (especially more than once) deserves to have their wallet filleted. A fool and his money are soon parted.

2. There may be an economic (I won't say fiscal!) justification for monetary fines. Speeding gives rise to both economic and social costs, and traffic law enforcement is not cheap, so the collection of fines goes some way towards paying for all of that.

3. It may be the case that a combination of fines and penalty points is more effective in a belt-and-braces sort of way. I haven't checked out the research evidence for or against speeding fines (and/or penalty points) as an instrument of public policy in this area, but I did find this reference to an interesting study which suggests that speeding fines don't reduce recidivism. Also this fact sheet, in which the Dutch road safety research institute, SWOV, draws a similar conclusion.

4. Fines hurt some people where they feel it most, in their pocket. It works for me! I got a parking fine a few years ago that I still remember, and it changed my behaviour permanently.

crzybkr73

QUOTE
"They'll be rolled out in the third or fourth week of November. It's important the message goes out that this is in addition to the existing cameras we have. These will be visible. There will be no shock or surprise. You won't just see a flash, they will be clearly marked."

"Road signs will be erected at roadsides to inform drivers they are entering a speed enforcement zone."

"There's no excuse, you're being told to slow down. We'll tell you the location, but not the time or date (when the cameras will be there)."

well the van i seen today was completely unmarked, but was a 10 kk reg. also there were no signs to indicate that it was in the area. are these not two infractions of their own rules.

rob555mark

Seen my first van this morning on the Mountrath to Portlaoise road, I was doing about 65kph towards the end of a 50kph zone but the van was facing me on the opposite side of the road so I'm hoping they can only catch you from the rear of the van??? I hope...........:(

Atomic Pineapple

rob555mark wrote: »

Seen my first van this morning on the Mountrath to Portlaoise road, I was doing about 65kph towards the end of a 50kph zone but the van was facing me on the opposite side of the road so I'm hoping they can only catch you from the rear of the van??? I hope...........:(

Well obviously they only catch you from the back of the van, but the camera can track multiple lanes

maxextz

when the speed cameras came out first years ago i was caught 3 times in a month fined and had 6 points on the license 60 euro a pop and for what? driving over 50kph on a duel carriageway ffs pissed me of no end.:mad:

ironclaw

crzybkr73 wrote: »

QUOTE
"They'll be rolled out in the third or fourth week of November. It's important the message goes out that this is in addition to the existing cameras we have. These will be visible. There will be no shock or surprise. You won't just see a flash, they will be clearly marked."

"Road signs will be erected at roadsides to inform drivers they are entering a speed enforcement zone."

"There's no excuse, you're being told to slow down. We'll tell you the location, but not the time or date (when the cameras will be there)."

well the van i seen today was completely unmarked, but was a 10 kk reg. also there were no signs to indicate that it was in the area. are these not two infractions of their own rules.

You have a point. But did you receive a summons? As said before they can be used for training and surveying, whatever that means. If you receive a summons from a GoSafe van that is unmarked, you probably have a case. Remember, not all vans are GoSafe. All the Garda one's are unmarked to my knowledge and they don't have to be marked or indicated.

Iwannahurl

There's a report in today's Irish Times (page 5 of the print edition) in which Asst Garda Commissioner John Twomey, head of the Traffic Corps, attributes a reduction in road casualties to the recently introduced speed cameras.

The number of people killed from when the cameras were introduced on November 16th to Monday last fell from 27 in 2009 to eight this year, according to Asst Garda Commissioner John Twomey

He said there had also been a reduction in the number of serious injuries from 53 to 19 over the period. “If you combine the two it is a reduction of 51 in the numbers killed or seriously injured since the introduction of speed cameras,” he added.

Given the antipathy some (many?) motorists feel towards speed cameras ("money-making scam" blah blah etc) is the Asst Commissioner being a bit previous?

My gut feeling is that it is too soon to tell, and that the speed cameras need to be in use for a lot longer before any reliable conclusions can be drawn as to their effectiveness or otherwise.

Given the international evidence for speed camera effectiveness I am very hopeful that they will deliver a road safety dividend. However, since the recent arctic weather is a potential confounder with regard to road casualties, I wonder whether making such a substantial claim so early just leaves the authorities open to accusations of deluded zealotry?

It has been stated more than once in this forum that the recent severe weather was better for road safety than any speed camera, since all motorists were forced to slow down dramatically and take much better care on the roads.

The Asst Commissioner claims he is allowing for this factor:

Even allowing for the recent bad weather, he said the fatalities had fallen from 22 to six over the comparable period excluding the cold spell.

Up to the time of posting this I have not been able to get road casualty stats that would throw some light on what happened during the severe weather in December 2009 and January 2010, long before these speed cameras appeared on the scene.

Marlow

Funny, how they have statistical data, when it suits themselves and there is no accessible data, when they aren't in their favour

/M

Iwannahurl

Marlow wrote: »

Funny, how they have statistical data, when it suits themselves and there is no accessible data, when they aren't in their favour

/M

Examples?

Marlow

As you said yourself, trying to draw conclusions at this point of time is way way too early to early.

Another thing is going back to the statistics in the UK, where a change in the way the statistics were stored/collected caused the incidents to fall, but when checked against statistics from the hospitals, there was a clear mismatch, so the statistical data were flawed.

The statement that you quoted seems to base itself on far too broad figures. A much more detailed approach would be needed to prove, that the cameras are worth, what they are costing.

/M

-Chris-

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The Asst Commissioner claims he is allowing for this factor:

Even allowing for the recent bad weather, he said the fatalities had fallen from 22 to six over the comparable period excluding the cold spell.

Gay Byrne was on Newstalk the other day and his opinion was that the cold spell was the primary reason for the drop in road deaths in the recent period.
Speed cameras didn't even come into the conversation iirc.

Iwannahurl

-Chris- wrote: »

Gay Byrne was on Newstalk the other day and his opinion was that the cold spell was the primary reason for the drop in road deaths in the recent period.
Speed cameras didn't even come into the conversation iirc.

Yes, but what does he know? :)

ironclaw

I have to say for a Garda to come out and say a drop in roads deaths during a weather period as bad (And unprecedented) as we have had in the past few weeks is nothing short of shocking. How could people crash, let alone speed, in the weather we've had? Yet again my belief in the Gardai takes a nose dive.

I'm going to stand by my belief that these cameras don't save lives or prevent accidents. They don't. How could they? By being the mind of the driver? Hardly. Most people I know would speed anyway, they'll just try keep a look out for them and brake accordingly. People don't change they're driving habits over what "could" happen. Thats obvious by people driving too fast on the snow / ice, even though they "could" crash out. Driving habits are built in from a persons first few days of driving and there is nothing anyone can do can change that. Can you change how you walk? No. You can't unless you have outside influence. Your doing it your way for far too long. Can you change how you write? Doubtful.

Many people I've know have got penalty points, sure they are awful careful for 6 weeks after but then, back to same old same old.

Your fooling yourself and the tax you pay if you believe in these cameras.

Iwannahurl

ironclaw wrote: »

I have to say for a Garda to come out and say a drop in roads deaths during a weather period as bad (And unprecedented) as we have had in the past few weeks is nothing short of shocking. How could people crash, let alone speed, in the weather we've had? Yet again my belief in the Gardai takes a nose dive.

I'm going to stand by my belief that these cameras don't save lives or prevent accidents. They don't. How could they? By being the mind of the driver? Hardly. Most people I know would speed anyway, they'll just try keep a look out for them and brake accordingly. People don't change they're driving habits over what "could" happen. Thats obvious by people driving too fast on the snow / ice, even though they "could" crash out. Driving habits are built in from a persons first few days of driving and there is nothing anyone can do can change that. Can you change how you walk? No. You can't unless you have outside influence. Your doing it your way for far too long. Can you change how you write? Doubtful.

Many people I've know have got penalty points, sure they are awful careful for 6 weeks after but then, back to same old same old.

Your fooling yourself and the tax you pay if you believe in these cameras.

1. Was the arctic weather of Dec 09 / Jan 10 not as bad? The new speed cameras were introduced since then. Would there be enough data for a comparison? Possibly not. I think time will tell. Certainly those who don't "believe" in the cameras don't have any conclusive data to rely on.

2. We obviously move in very different circles. Most people I know may or may not speed occasionally but I can't see them mindlessly racking up penalty points as if they didn't care about the career-damaging possibilities of court appearances or the loss of their driving license.

3. It would be very worrying (and surprising) if there was a scrap of truth in your assertion that nothing, including enforcement, can influence motorists' behaviour. I certainly don't drive the same way I did after my "first few days of driving". And if that is true of everyone, why does an organisation like the Institute of Advanced Motorists exist? How do professional racing drivers improve over time?

L1011

Iwannahurl wrote: »

1. Was the arctic weather of Dec 09 / Jan 10 not as bad?

Didn't last as long, didn't leave housing estates inescapable to all but those with 4x4s for up to a week either.

The weather was definitely the main factor in this. I'd be interested in seeing details of what the breakdown of the extremely high October figures were, as it happens (36, up 14 on 2009).

ironclaw

1. Was the arctic weather of Dec 09 / Jan 10 not as bad? The new speed cameras were introduced since then. Would there be enough data for a comparison? Possibly not. I think time will tell. Certainly those who don't "believe" in the cameras don't have any conclusive data to rely on.

I agree with the data statement but the weather wasn't half as bad. I have a good few snaps from around and the snow isn't even half as thick. The weather was worse and more prolonged. Many of my neighbors were stuck for 7 days+

2. We obviously move in very different circles. Most people I know may or may not speed occasionally but I can't see them mindlessly racking up penalty points as if they didn't care about the career-damaging possibilities of court appearances or the loss of their driving license.

I don't agree with that. I'm not saying they fly about and don't give a toss. What I was saying is, like any bold school child, someone in trouble is on there "best behavior" for a few weeks but then they are back at the usual. I'm not saying the speed excessively all the time, trying to out do the system. What I mean is for a few weeks they're constantly checking there speed but then they are back in the groove again.

3. It would be very worrying (and surprising) if there was a scrap of truth in your assertion that nothing, including enforcement, can influence motorists' behaviour. I certainly don't drive the same way I did after my "first few days of driving".

I'm a firm adovatate of how you learn to drive is how you will drive. I know plenty of people who had terrible instuction from parents or schools, and to this day they can't drive well. Your learning to drive years before you step behind a wheel. Like everything you learn as you go be that walking, speech etc. Monkey see, monkey do. A quick look at the boy racer type would prove the point, they didn't pick that off the tree's. If you had a good driver in the family, chances are you'll be a decent driver. I know this from watching myself and friends, we all display a trait of how a teacher drives.

And if that is true of everyone, why does an organisation like the Institute of Advanced Motorists exist? How do professional racing drivers improve over time?

They exist because like minded people have an interest. Call it a hobby group. Why do Knitting groups exist? Because people have an interest in knitting.

And its very easy to improve your driving if your willing to spend time, effort and be tested. Professional racing drivers are already good drivers, take Sebastian Loeb, those boys don't talk about parallel parking, they talk of 1/10's of seconds over miles of road. They improve, and people who go on courses improve, but only due to third party influence at close proximity. Imagine trying to distance learn how to drive? Or how to drive over the phone? It would be impossible. If you want to effect driver behavior, you must be the car with them. Financial or legal implications have little if no bearing on the average motorist.

Dempo1

Jezzz, just had a taught, this company and the government must be terribly disappointed at poor revenues over the past couple of weeks!:D My heart bleeds! I was tempted to hand some warm mince pies into one of these vans earlier today!

johnos1984

I'd be more tempted to apply some cold water to the windows and distort the images they snap

Dempo1

johnos1984 wrote: »

I'd be more tempted to apply some cold water to the windows and distort the images they snap

I sense Hot water might get a more desired windscreen affect! LOL:D

sambermo

Dempo1 wrote: »

I don't mean to be argumentative but has anyone actually see one of these supposed HIGH VISIBILITY VANS?, i certainly have not and i am on the road quite a lot, it appears to me most if not all these vans are not clearly marked and i have to say i have seen them in bizarre "easy catch locations"

I have seen 1 in Navan but 3 unmarked vans in Navan too! And all in an "easy catch" area!!

sambermo

Anyone on here try driving a fully loaded artic truck at 30kph??????? Hard enough at 50kmh....

Iwannahurl

Dempo1 wrote: »

Jezzz, just had a taught, this company and the government must be terribly disappointed at poor revenues over the past couple of weeks! My heart bleeds! I was tempted to hand some warm mince pies into one of these vans earlier today!

johnos1984 wrote: »

I'd be more tempted to apply some cold water to the windows and distort the images they snap

sambermo wrote: »

I have seen 1 in Navan but 3 unmarked vans in Navan too! And all in an "easy catch" area!!

"Poor revenues" = no speeding detections, right? I presume you are saying this is due to the severe weather.

In which case, there are no images to snap and no 'easy catches'. So what is there to complain or crow about?

johnos1984

Iwannahurl wrote: »

In which case, there are no images to snap and no 'easy catches'. So what is there to complain or crow about?

Why am I being quoted?

Mine is clearly a small joke, no complaint about revenues etc or unfair snapping of people or encouragement for malicious damage.

The only issue I really saw was the one parked by the side of the road outside Roscrea yesterday in thick fog with no lights on for drivers to see it.

I considered it the biggest safety hazard at that spot on the road

GTE

Anyone been caught by them? Willing to say it to us?

I haven't heard anything about how well they are working since the verbal vomit that was around by the people who introduced them.

Dempo1

Iwannahurl wrote: »

"Poor revenues" = no speeding detections, right? I presume you are saying this is due to the severe weather.

In which case, there are no images to snap and no 'easy catches'. So what is there to complain or crow about?

Not crowing, Just ****ing delighted these scam artists are getting **** all revenues but no doubt lots of colds!:D:D:D

Still awaiting the High visibility vans also?????????????

Dempo1

Its kinda poetic justice seeing the Two smiling Ministers responsible for this expensive & absurd nonsense departing office, not before they signed off on this lucrative contract for Mr Mc Cauliff, a long time FF contributor and former VBF of one Charles J Haughey! No doubt just like the E Voting machines, the new government will find some enormously expensive warehouse (run by Ireland favorite developer, Mr Gannon) to store these Vans when they realize what another expensive and pointless debacle.

TJJP

Dempo1 wrote: »

Its kinda poetic justice seeing the Two smiling Ministers responsible for this expensive <snip>.

How was it expensive?