Ferguson or Mourinho?

Warper

Simples, who do you think is the better manager?

x43r0

Jose Mourinho

As a Liverpool fan I don't particularly like the man but Fergie is the clear winner here

jebidiah

Jose Mourinho

time will tell with Mourinho, he may end up being better in the long run

but ferguson has (unfortunatly) been the driving force behind UTDs amazing run since the 90s, so for now, he wins

event

oh my, this'll be fun

Kess73

At this moment in time I would say that Jose is the better manager, but if it is based on who has been the better manager over the course of their careers to date, then it has to be Ferguson.

Leiva

Tayto .

stovelid

Mike Tyson's jocks.

Dempsey

Kess73 wrote: »

At this moment in time I would say that Jose is the better manager, but if it is based on who has been the better manager over the course of their careers to date, then it has to be Ferguson.

This

JerryHandbag

Jose Mourinho

Ferginho

mirwillbeback

John Gregory was better than both.

SlickRic

an impossible question.

as Kess said, right now, it would probably be Mourinho by a gee hair.

but, over the course of their careers so far, Ferguson has to win out.

also, the question intertwined in this, is do you prefer a manager who comes in for 2/3 years, makes you successful and leaves, or a manager who stays to build; i mean Fergie took years to build the club to the point where it was in a position to sustain, what has now become, a dynasty really.

they really are very difficult to compare.

Leiva

mirwillbeback wrote: »

John Gregory was better than both.

Tut Tut ..you liar !

It was Dave O Leary .

Frisbee

SlickRic wrote: »

also, the question intertwined in this, is do you prefer a manager who comes in for 2/3 years, makes you successful and leaves, or a manager who stays to build; i mean Fergie took years to build the club to the point where it was in a position to sustain, what has now become, a dynasty really.

This.

Is the poll who is the better manager right now?
Or who has been the better manager over the couse of their career?

If it's the first one Mourinho shades it for me, he has an ability to come into a club and within a very short period of time have them winning trophies. However in the long term he hasn't proven he can do it.

However Fergie would be my vote if it's the latter for his sheer sustainability. I don't think we'll see a manager of his ilk again who will lead a club to such an incredible period of sustained dominance and trophies.

DrumSteve

Jose Mourinho

Fergie.

homerjay2005

Jose Mourinho

perhaps best off being done when both of them are finished to give a true reflection. 2 top class managers, one the greatest of all time and the other who could become the greatest of all time.

right now, fergie holds that claim as he has outlasted many many mangers and is the seconds longest in british history. Jose has yet to put a legacy in place, though it can be said, has been excellent everywhere he has been.

love them both to be honest and i cant wait for jose to be uniteds next manager. my only fear is that, like every other thread, this will turn into a brawl of some sort.

fergie for me, but in 20 years time, could be a different story.

mike65

Jose is a jobbing manager who has done brilliantly well with other peoples money, Fergie is an empire builder. Only question is the Empire going to survive his exit?

dfx-

Mourinho has the ability to unite any team across Europe and club into success. The video of him and Materazzi was telling.

Ferguson on the other hand works on fear, which I don't know would work if he stepped into the San Siro or Bernabeu tomorrow. Over time yes, but not for a while. I don't see him crying in public with John O'Shea..

I'd put Mourinho and that style first.

homerjay2005

Jose Mourinho

dfx- wrote: »

Mourinho has the ability to unite any team across Europe and club into success. The video of him and Materazzi was telling.

Ferguson on the other hand works on fear, which I don't know would work if he stepped into the San Siro or Bernabeu tomorrow. Over time yes, but not for a while. I don't see him crying in public with John O'Shea..

I'd put Mourinho and that style first.

fergies legacy is based on his relationship with the players.your telling me fergie doesnt have a special bond with his players? just look at the only two world class players who have left recently and went on to better their careers or at least maintain them - pique and ronaldo. both said he was a 2nd father to them and they were only there 2 and 6 years, ronaldo was saying about the 2nd father, after a year or 2 there.

beckham, van nistelrooy and stam lost that trust and respect, but im sure Jose has had a few rows with his players also. having a good relationship at the beginning is easy to do, its how you keep the longevity after 5 or 6 years (keane and fergie took about 13 years to break down) and jose has yet to do that.

Paul Tergat

Jose Mourinho

mike65 wrote: »

Jose is a jobbing manager who has done brilliantly well with other peoples money, Fergie is an empire builder. Only question is the Empire going to survive his exit?

What has this got to do with the thread? You suggesting this would go against Fergie when he leaves?

KaiserGunner

Jose Mourinho

Alex Ferguson the clear winner here for me. Been at a top club for over 20 years now and won everything that he could have. He also had to mould 4 or 5 different teams during that time. Mourinho longest stint I think is 3 or 4 years at clubs which have had plenty of money to spend and good starting foundations going into the job. I know Porto didnt have with their champions League win but im sure he had the biggest budget in the portuguese league anyway to compete for titles.

So overall Ferguson definitely takes it. May change in the future but not for now.

Dot Cotton

dfx-

homerjay2005 wrote: »

beckham, van nistelrooy and stam lost that trust and respect, but im sure Jose has had a few rows with his players also. having a good relationship at the beginning is easy to do, its how you keep the longevity after 5 or 6 years (keane and fergie took about 13 years to break down) and jose has yet to do that.

Indeed, Balotelli being the obvious case. He still played Balotelli, whereas Beckham and certainly Van Nistelrooy were frozen out and Stam was pushed out the door quick, with no recompense for the team than the personal relationship.

Every manager gets on with players..my point is that players who lose the relationship with Ferguson may as well have broken their contract. It is fundamental to playing in Ferguson's team. Mourinho persists with players he doesn't like for the team unity and success. Both are valid, I'd choose Mourinho's style.

Mars Bar

Jose Mourinho

Fergie for me right at this moment.

But if there is one man that has the capability of eclipsing Fergie, then it is Mourinho. And if he's gonna do that, I hope it's at United!

gosplan

Jose and it's not even that close tbh.

I say mourinho.
Fergie for long time was able to throw money around the premiership.Common sense suggests the club with the most money has the best team.

His lack of success in europe compounds my view.

Leiva

Louisa Juicy Chisel wrote: »

I say mourinho.
Fergie for long time was able to throw money around the premiership.Common sense suggests the club with the most money has the best team.

His lack of success in europe compounds my view.

Very True when you look into it .

Put it this way ..Hypothetical question :

If Alex Ferguson was to leave MAN UTD , do you think he could manage another club(s) in a 8yr term and have the same success as Jose has had at his past 3 clubs in the same time frame ?

Me thinks not .

Jose seems to very diverse and can go anywhere and have quick success , that diversity would be lacking in Mr Ferguson .
I am factoring Ferguson's age and desire into my point .
His success at MAN UTD in undeniably but he has been given/been there so long to get it right .

Le King

Jose Mourinho

gosplan wrote: »

Jose and it's not even that close tbh.

lol

I think Mourinho could be the better manager in 20 years but he needs a club where he can build and replace a team to compare the two, considering Fergie will retire at United.

I love them both. Both great characters. I think one day Mourinho can be the best. He's already shown he can do it in 3 different leagues. Both fantastic Managers but Fergie wins this atm.

28064212

mixednuts wrote: »

Put it this way ..Hypothetical question :

If Alex Ferguson was to leave MAN UTD , do you think he could manage another club(s) in a 8yr term and have the same success as Jose has had at his past 3 clubs in the same time frame ?

Me thinks not .

And if you were to put Mourinho into, say, Fulham, could he build that club up to become the dominant force in English football, winning absolutely everything put in front of him, brushing aside challenge after challenge, then doing it again after the first generation has moved on/retired? And then do it again, and again?

Also, you're completely discounting what Ferguson did at Aberdeen, which was also a huge managerial achievement

JPA

28064212 wrote: »

And if you were to put Mourinho into, say, Fulham, could he build that club up to become the dominant force in English football, winning absolutely everything put in front of him, brushing aside challenge after challenge, then doing it again after the first generation has moved on/retired? And then do it again, and again?

Also, you're completely discounting what Ferguson did at Aberdeen, which was also a huge managerial achievement

Fulham?

L'prof

Jose Mourinho

JPA wrote: »

Fulham?

United were definitely the Fulham of top-flight football pre Ferguson...

Both great managers, but one has far more time on his hands than the other. Mourinho is a trophy hound, as is Ferguson to a certain extent, but he's also so much more. I sincerely doubt that Mourinho will ever do for one club what Ferguson has done for United, but his record is ridiculously impressive.

Their trophy records (I'm going to include all minor trophies here too) are very impressive. If Mourinho can keep going, he'll surely surpass Ferguson some day, but he has a frightening amount of work ahead of him, just as well he has 21+ years to do so.

Manager|Trophies|TPS
Ferguson|46|1.31
Mourinho|17|1.89

To summarise, if I had to pick either at the beginning of their careers to manage Arsenal (forgetting about Wenger for the moment), it would be Ferguson.

Mars Bar

Jose Mourinho

Ferguson can do a lot with relatively little.

Ferguson was manager of St. Mirren from 1974 until 1978, producing a remarkable transformation of a team in the lower half of the old Second Division watched by crowds of just over 1,000, to First Division champions in 1977, discovering talent like Billy Stark, Tony Fitzpatrick, Lex Richardson, Frank McGarvey, Bobby Reid and Peter Weir while playing superb attacking football. The average age of the league winning team was 19 and the captain, Fitzpatrick, was 20.

28064212

JPA wrote: »

Fulham?

Maybe Everton would be a closer comparison. United were in Division 2 ten years before Ferguson's arrival. 92-93 was the first league success in 26 years. They certainly weren't one of the dominant teams a la the "big four" or Barca/Real

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Jose Mourinho

L'prof wrote: »

United were definitely the Fulham of top-flight football pre Ferguson....

Thats a load of bollox! Sure Fergie was almost sacked around 1992, only they won the F.A. Cup. Woy was considered a great manager "just" for getting Fulham into the Europa League final.
United of then are more like the Liverpool of now (no offence intended).

L'prof

Jose Mourinho

THFC wrote: »

Thats a load of bollox! Sure Fergie was almost sacked around 1992, only they won the F.A. Cup. Woy was considered a great manager "just" for getting Fulham into the Europa League final.
United of then are more like the Liverpool of now (no offence intended).

I guess my sarcasm was lost on you so.

#15

Jose Mourinho

gosplan wrote: »

Jose and it's not even that close tbh.

LOL.

JPA

28064212 wrote: »

Maybe Everton would be a closer comparison. United were in Division 2 ten years before Ferguson's arrival. 92-93 was the first league success in 26 years. They certainly weren't one of the dominant teams a la the "big four" or Barca/Real

But they finished in the top 4 6 of the 10 years before Ferguson's arrival.
They were under achieving no doubt but being in division 2 10 years before his arrival has no relevance.

IvySlayer

Jose Mourinho

Louisa Juicy Chisel wrote: »

I say mourinho.
Fergie for long time was able to throw money around the premiership.Common sense suggests the club with the most money has the best team.

His lack of success in europe compounds my view.

Man Utd earned thier money unlike Chelsea who had a rich chairman. Mourinho had loads of money and couldn't bring the Champions League to Stamford Bridge.

28064212

JPA wrote: »

But they finished in the top 4 6 of the 10 years before Ferguson's arrival.
They were under achieving no doubt but being in division 2 10 years before his arrival has no relevance.

As well as 8th, 9th and 10th finishes. No league successes in 20 years, bouncing around near the top without ever really looking like title-challengers, and more than capable of some crap seasons. Hell, Ferguson's first 4 seasons had 3 finishes outside the top 10, and he wasn't sacked, which says a lot about expectations. Compared to Mourinho: Porto (one of the Big Three), Chelsea (Abramovich's billions, fully expected to challenge on all fronts), Inter (in a very weak Italian league), and now Real Madrid. United in '86 were light-years from having anything like the expectations or resources of any of those clubs

JPA

28064212 wrote: »

As well as 8th, 9th and 10th finishes. No league successes in 20 years, bouncing around near the top without ever really looking like title-challengers, and more than capable of some crap seasons. Hell, Ferguson's first 4 seasons had 3 finishes outside the top 10, and he wasn't sacked, which says a lot about expectations. Compared to Mourinho: Porto (one of the Big Three), Chelsea (Abramovich's billions, fully expected to challenge on all fronts), Inter (in a very weak Italian league), and now Real Madrid. United in '86 were light-years from having anything like the expectations or resources of any of those clubs

You compared United to Fulham, where as someone pointed out you were better off comparing them to the modern Liverpool.
United always had money and Ferguson spent plenty of it starting out.
I just think you are overplaying how far back United were.

#15

Jose Mourinho

JPA wrote: »

You compared United to Fulham, where as someone pointed out you were better off comparing them to the modern Liverpool.
United always had money and Ferguson spent plenty of it starting out.
I just think you are overplaying how far back United were.

I think Tottenham (pre-CL) might be the most accurate comparison.

Big club, fairly wealthy, success limited to cup runs, some decent performances in the league without ever looking like winning it, mixed in with a few (relatively) awful seasons.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Jose Mourinho

Louisa Juicy Chisel wrote: »

I say mourinho.
Fergie for long time was able to throw money around the premiership.Common sense suggests the club with the most money has the best team.

His lack of success in europe compounds my view.

Mourinho inherited a good Chelsea team and had all the money in the world to back him and he failed in the eyes of Abramovich. Inter were the best team in Italy when he got them, again he had money to make them better and to be fair he had an amazing season with them. Now, he's at Madrid with potentially the best team in the world and again has lots of money.

He did exceptionally well with Porto, there's no doubting that. But, was it just a season where everything fell right for him and luck went his way?

Ferguson built United to what United is today, one of, if not the biggest football clubs in the world. The man broke the Celtic/Rangers hold on the SPL and as mars bar pointed out he transformed St. Mirren. I honestly don't think people realise just how good he is, tbh. 11 PL titles out of 19(?) is fúcking ridiculous for one manager. Include all the cups and 2 CLs he won. Jose has a long way to go before he can be as good as Ferguson.

But, I do think he'll do it. I just hope it's with United.

Dempsey

He did exceptionally well with Porto, there's no doubting that. But, was it just a season where everything fell right for him and luck went his way?

What about winning the UEFA Cup the season before? And that was back when teams/media/fans actually cared about the competition.

Hardly going to make out that he fluked Europe 2 seasons in a row?

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Jose Mourinho

Dempsey wrote: »

What about winning the UEFA Cup the season before? And that was back when teams/media/fans actually cared about the competition.

Hardly going to make out that he fluked Europe 2 seasons in a row?

For fúck sake, did I say he flukd it two seasons in a row?
I simply asked the question, because I don't remember it overly well. I can't remember wholly but I think United should have won the tie against Porto, but I'm open to correction.

Can't ask a question around here without someone jumping down your throat.

DOC09UNAM

Jose Mourinho

Louisa Juicy Chisel wrote: »

I say mourinho.
Fergie for long time was able to throw money around the premiership.Common sense suggests the club with the most money has the best team.

His lack of success in europe compounds my view.

I completely agree.

Mourinho never had money at porto, chelsea, inter or real.

:rolleyes:

DOC09UNAM

Jose Mourinho

baz2009 wrote: »

For fúck sake, did I say he flukd it two seasons in a row?
I simply asked the question, because I don't remember it overly well. I can't remember wholly but I think United should have won the tie against Porto, but I'm open to correction.

Can't ask a question around here without someone jumping down your throat.

Last minute free kick saved which Costinha tapped in.

IIRC United were going through until the last minute of the game, and after a match like that, Porto would have had all the confidence going into the next game.

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

how can you compare a guy who has >10 years of management at the top level to a guy who has 30+ years at it

Christ i hate international breaks

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

id advise anyone thinking of voting mourinho to consider that ^^^

Dempsey

baz2009 wrote: »

For fúck sake, did I say he flukd it two seasons in a row?
I simply asked the question, because I don't remember it overly well. I can't remember wholly but I think United should have won the tie against Porto, but I'm open to correction.

Can't ask a question around here without someone jumping down your throat.

Stop being a drama queen. Google could have easily refreshed your memory but you just werent bothered looking.

They should have won that tie, but they didnt. Bayern shouldnt have conceded 2 injury time goals, but they did. Terry should have scored that penalty, but he didnt. Leave the woulda, coulda, shoulda out of it tbh.

Also Mourinho's unbeaten home record across 4 clubs is nothing short of phenomenal (dont think its been mentioned yet)

L'prof

Jose Mourinho

Dempsey wrote: »

Stop being a drama queen. Google could have easily refreshed your memory but you just werent bothered looking.

They should have won that tie, but they didnt. Bayern shouldnt have conceded 2 injury time goals, but they did. Terry should have scored that penalty, but he didnt. Leave the woulda, coulda, shoulda out of it tbh.

Also Mourinho's unbeaten home record across 4 clubs is nothing short of phenomenal (dont think its been mentioned yet)

It's not still going strong, is it???

Edit: Holy fúck, February 2002!!!

DOC09UNAM

Jose Mourinho

Dempsey wrote: »

Stop being a drama queen. Google could have easily refreshed your memory but you just werent bothered looking.

They should have won that tie, but they didnt. Bayern shouldnt have conceded 2 injury time goals, but they did. Terry should have scored that penalty, but he didnt. Leave the woulda, coulda, shoulda out of it tbh.

Also Mourinho's unbeaten home record across 4 clubs is nothing short of phenomenal (dont think its been mentioned yet)

I believe it's 5 clubs that he has that record with.

The only home game he lost was at Porto.

L'prof wrote: »

It's not still going strong, is it???

Yes, I think the streak is around the 135-140 mark or so at this stage.

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

pfft

its only in the league and its 139 games in a row unbeaten......its unreal actually isnt it