Ferguson or Mourinho?

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Jose Mourinho

Dempsey wrote: »

Stop being a drama queen. Google could have easily refreshed your memory but you just werent bothered looking.

They should have won that tie, but they didnt. Bayern shouldnt have conceded 2 injury time goals, but they did. Terry should have scored that penalty, but he didnt. Leave the woulda, coulda, shoulda out of it tbh.

Also Mourinho's unbeaten home record across 4 clubs is nothing short of phenomenal (dont think its been mentioned yet)

Me being a drama queen?

I actually did Google it after I posted, but couldn't find much on it other than highlights, tbh.
Bayern weren't 'unlucky' so to speak, they just lost concentration and United kept going, suppose you could say the same for Porto v United, but as I have said I haven't seen that game in years, so I don't feel I can post a fair comment on it. Penalty misses aren't unlucky usually, imo, just stupidity/lack of skill on the takers part, but Terry's was unlucky as he slipped. But what does Terry have to do with it?

EDIT: Yes, the reord is quite astounding. I haven't actually taken away from Mourinho's ability, I do think he could overtake Fergie in time, just not there yet.

IvySlayer

Jose Mourinho

Dempsey wrote: »

Stop being a drama queen. Google could have easily refreshed your memory but you just werent bothered looking.

They should have won that tie, but they didnt. Bayern shouldnt have conceded 2 injury time goals, but they did. Terry should have scored that penalty, but he didnt. Leave the woulda, coulda, shoulda out of it tbh.

Also Mourinho's unbeaten home record across 4 clubs is nothing short of phenomenal (dont think its been mentioned yet)

His unbeaten league home performances is amazing.

I think it was Panathinaikos who beat Mourinhos Inter at the San Siro in the CL?

DOC09UNAM

Jose Mourinho

IvySlayer wrote: »

His unbeaten league home performances is amazing.

I think it was Panathinaikos who beat Mourinhos Inter at the San Siro in the CL?

His record is in league matches so the Panathanikos one wouldn't count.

Warper

Tbh I put up this poll to see exactly how strong the bias is on Boards towards Man Utd and to a lesser extent, the PL. I have gotten my answer. 7 out of 10 people on here think Ferguson is a better manager than Mourinho. That is just mental. Jose Mourinho is without question the best manager in the world today. Mourinho is what, 10 years in management and he has conquered everywhere he has been - Portugal, England, Italy, Europe.

People on here talk about the greatest unbeaten run. To go unbeaten in the League at home spanning 8 years across different countries beggars belief. He is the most sought after manager in the world for a reason. Winning. Ferguson is undoubtably a world-class manager and has acheived many great things in his career but come on. Mourinho is the main man. If this was a worldwide poll Mourinho would win hands down.

PHB

They've directly competed for four years in the same league. Mourinho came in and set a new standard for the PL. Fergie responded to it and beat it.

Fergie's falling will always be only 2 CL's. I still feel that if he ever gets the 3rd, he will instantly retire.

Either way, Mourinho will have a chance to best Fergie's record when he comes to United after Fergie retires so we'll know for sure.

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

Right but your missing your own point

Mourinho is in management less then 10 years, he cannot be compared to Fergie for another 20

No bias

Fergie has achieved more then Mourinho. He has maintained success longer then Mourinho has been a manager ffs

flahavaj

Jose Mourinho

Who cares - present United boss, next United boss - happy days either way. Hopefully Jose outdoes the great man in the biggest job in football in years to come.

Warper

PHB wrote: »

They've directly competed for four years in the same league. Mourinho came in and set a new standard for the PL. Fergie responded to it and beat it.

Fergie's falling will always be only 2 CL's. I still feel that if he ever gets the 3rd, he will instantly retire.

Either way, Mourinho will have a chance to best Fergie's record when he comes to United after Fergie retires so we'll know for sure.

I can see Mourinho retiring fairly young. He doesnt look to be the type to hang around too long at the same club and the way he's going there wont be much left for him to do at club level. The Portuguese job is what he is eyeing towards the end of his career. Would be great to see him at a World Cup.

#15

Jose Mourinho

Warper wrote: »

If this was a worldwide poll Mourinho would win hands down.

This is the same type of bollox that was going on in the Keane-Vieira thread.

OPENROAD

Jose Mourinho

Just interest to do know, does anyone what kind of money has Mourinho spent were he has had success ?

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

Warper wrote: »

I can see Mourinho retiring fairly young. He doesnt look to be the type to hang around too long at the same club and the way he's going there wont be much left for him to do at club level. The Portuguese job is what he is eyeing towards the end of his career. Would be great to see him at a World Cup.

hm... debateable whether he would suit international management tbf

He develops a close bond with his players, being with them day in and day out is what needed for that

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

OPENROAD wrote: »

Just interest to do know, does anyone what kind of money has Mourinho spent were he has had success ?

Besides Porto? Lots!

Edit: this is the main reason i dont see him being next united manager without our finances getting sorted

flahavaj

Jose Mourinho

kryogen wrote: »

Besides Porto? Lots!

Edit: this is the main reason i dont see him being next united manager without our finances getting sorted

His net spend at Inter was actually quite reasonable AFAIK.

L'prof

Jose Mourinho

flahavaj wrote: »

His net spend at Inter was actually quite reasonable AFAIK.

Of course it was, he got Eto'o + €45m for Ibra! Maybe he'll do something similar with Rooney?

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

Yep the Ibra deal helped balance the books a little, but he still spent 29million on Diego Milito, 15million on Sneijder, so that pretty much accounts for the 45 million part

Cant remember too many others, quick search tells me Mancini cost him 13mil, Muntari 16mil and Quaresma (remember him!) 18.6mil initially plus pele

no big departures really (cept Ibra who has been accounted for) Lucio from Bayern the only other stand out one in terms of acquisitions

flahavaj

Jose Mourinho

Regardess of where the dollars came from he hadn't a blank cheque book like he had at Chelsea.

Not that it matters either way tbh, he still had to spend the money well. There plenty sh*thouses who've been a givena fortune to spend and spent it on muck.

SlickRic

Warper wrote: »

Tbh I put up this poll to see exactly how strong the bias is on Boards towards Man Utd and to a lesser extent, the PL. I have gotten my answer. 7 out of 10 people on here think Ferguson is a better manager than Mourinho. That is just mental. Jose Mourinho is without question the best manager in the world today. Mourinho is what, 10 years in management and he has conquered everywhere he has been - Portugal, England, Italy, Europe.

Ferguson has been in 2 leagues in his career.

1. Scottish League; won it with a team that was not the Old Firm - Aberdeen, and won the UEFA Cup.

2. English League; for over 20 years, and don't make me list out the achievements, because it's likely to make me vomit in my mouth.

it's very easy to see why Fergie would win out in this.

it's mental that you would not think it should be close.

Mourinho is phenomenal, but so is Ferguson, and for you to not see that is...well...mental.

OPENROAD

Jose Mourinho

flahavaj wrote: »

Regardess of where the dollars came from he hadn't a blank cheque book like he had at Chelsea.

Not that it matters either way tbh, he still had to spend the money well. There plenty sh*thouses who've been a givena fortune to spend and spent it on muck.

Fair point but at the same time I would like to see how he does with a limited budget.

gosplan

IvySlayer wrote: »

Mourinho had loads of money and couldn't bring the Champions League to Stamford Bridge.

LOL

Perhaps not but Porto and Milan were happy enough with him.

gosplan

gosplan wrote: »

LOL

Perhaps not but Porto and Milan were happy enough with him.

And what's with all the nonsense about not being able to compare them because Fergie's been at it for so long. Are we basically saying that you can't compare anyone to Fergie unless they're 70?

Regardless, one thing I know for sure. If I was a billionaire and I bought a club, I know exactly which manager I'd be going for out of the two and I imagine it's the same for nearly everyone here regardless of whatever respect you have for Fergie's longevity.

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

gosplan wrote: »

And what's with all the nonsense about not being able to compare them because Fergie's been at it for so long. Are we basically saying that you can't compare anyone to Fergie unless they're 70?

Regardless, one thing I know for sure. If I was a billionaire and I bought a club, I know exactly which manager I'd be going for out of the two and I imagine it's the same for nearly everyone here regardless of whatever respect you have for Fergie's longevity.

You cant compare Fergie and Mourinho just yet, its quite simple tbh

And you should have a good think about who you would hire if you were a billionaire, Fergie has signed and nurtured more players to world beating heights then Mourinho

Dempsey

baz2009 wrote: »

Me being a drama queen?

I actually did Google it after I posted, but couldn't find much on it other than highlights, tbh.
Bayern weren't 'unlucky' so to speak, they just lost concentration and United kept going, suppose you could say the same for Porto v United, but as I have said I haven't seen that game in years, so I don't feel I can post a fair comment on it. Penalty misses aren't unlucky usually, imo, just stupidity/lack of skill on the takers part, but Terry's was unlucky as he slipped. But what does Terry have to do with it?

EDIT: Yes, the reord is quite astounding. I haven't actually taken away from Mourinho's ability, I do think he could overtake Fergie in time, just not there yet.

The fact that you dragged out that smilie says it all :pac:

If Terry scored that peno, Chelsea would have won that UCL final. Just talking about the fine line between taking trophies home and crying on Lampard's shoulder.

kryogen wrote: »

Right but your missing your own point

Mourinho is in management less then 10 years, he cannot be compared to Fergie for another 20

No bias

Fergie has achieved more then Mourinho. He has maintained success longer then Mourinho has been a manager ffs

In less than 10 years, he's equalled Ferguson's UCL haul. You can compare actually.

flahavaj

Jose Mourinho

gosplan wrote: »

And what's with all the nonsense about not being able to compare them because Fergie's been at it for so long. Are we basically saying that you can't compare anyone to Fergie unless they're 70?

Regardless, one thing I know for sure. If I was a billionaire and I bought a club, I know exactly which manager I'd be going for out of the two and I imagine it's the same for nearly everyone here regardless of whatever respect you have for Fergie's longevity.

If you were a billionaire and had just bought a club you probably still couldn't get either tbh.

Case in point - Man City.

Paul Tergat

Jose Mourinho

gosplan wrote: »

And what's with all the nonsense about not being able to compare them because Fergie's been at it for so long.

Surely him creating a dynasty should count for something?

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

Dempsey wrote: »

In less than 10 years, he's equalled Ferguson's UCL haul. You can compare actually.

Nope, different rules now, there is a school of thought that under todays rules regarding squads United would have won more European Cups in the 90's

If Mourinho could only have 3 foreign guys on his team, well.... i dont think Inter would have won the CL do you? Porto would have made it by the skin of their teeth still probably, plenty of non portugeese in the squad though

It is not fair to Mourinho to compare him to the greatest manager of all time right now

Dempsey

kryogen wrote: »

Nope, different rules now, there is a school of thought that under todays rules regarding squads United would have won more European Cups in the 90's

If Mourinho could only have 3 foreign guys on his team, well.... i dont think Inter would have won the CL do you? Porto would have made it by the skin of their teeth still probably, plenty of non portugeese in the squad though

It is not fair to Mourinho to compare him to the greatest manager of all time right now

Everyone back in the 90's had to deal with those rules so if you remove those restrictions for United, you'd remove them for the likes of Barcelona, Madrid, Milan, Juventus who all were superior squads to United anyways and all in stronger leagues. They would be more likely to benefit from that restriction being removed than United would because south american players wouldnt go to the EPL in their prime back in the 90's, they went to France, Portugal, Spain and Italy and top talent was always drawn to the strong continental leagues over the EPL

Totally hypothetical scenario but you put that restriction on Mourinho's squad, then the other strong squads would be suffering aswell, wouldnt they? Arsenal would struggle to put out a starting 11 if you slapped that rule onto squads tomorrow. Using the rules of the 90's against Mourinho's squads is a useless argument

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

you know, your probably right there

i dont wanna get into a debate on whether the rule being lefted back then would have hurt or helped united, its for another day

but comparing them is not possible right now, Fergie broke the old firm dominance in Scotland, that is one hell of an achievement, and won a european (UEFA) cup with them

He has built great team after great team at united and has matched and beaten every other manager to oppose him, even Mourinho

Warper

kryogen wrote: »

you know, your probably right there

i dont wanna get into a debate on whether the rule being lefted back then would have hurt or helped united, its for another day

but comparing them is not possible right now, Fergie broke the old firm dominance in Scotland, that is one hell of an achievement, and won a european (UEFA) cup with them

He has built great team after great team at united and has matched and beaten every other manager to oppose him, even Mourinho

He won the Cup Winners Cup, not the UEFA Cup. Ferguson is a great manager, no one is debating that but as someone said if you took over a club and could have any manager in the world. Im pretty sure most people would pick Mourinho. What are you about btw, Mourinho came into the PL and steam-rollered Utd. winning 2 PL on the trot easily.

I think one of Mourinho's greatest acheivement was last years Inter win over Barca. No other manager in the world could have pulled that one off. It really proved that he is the best manager in the world bar none. I'm sure if Jose wanted to stay at one club spending millions every year then he could be every bit as successful as Fergie. I doubt if Fergie could do what Mourinho has done. Dominated Europe wherever he went. In 20 years time, if Jose stays in management, Fergie's record will look pretty average compared to the Special One.

As Guardiola said: "In terms of the world's best managers, when you compare Jose to Sir Alex, Arsene and Fabio (Capello) he is still very young. But even at his age there is a very strong case for him being the best manager in the world. That's the truth.

"To be honest, he probably is the best. He has won major league titles in three different countries and, with all due respect to Porto, the European Cup with perhaps somebody you didn't expect to win it.

"He only needs to win La Liga and he will have done the lot. If Jose ever wants to manage in Spain then he will - any club would do what they needed in order to get him.

"I am sure there will be a few chairmen this summer who have Jose top of their list - even above recruiting new players. Where he goes, success follows. What else do you need to say apart from he is a winner?"

Xavi6

IvySlayer wrote: »

Man Utd earned thier money unlike Chelsea who had a rich chairman. Mourinho had loads of money and couldn't bring the Champions League to Stamford Bridge.

That's just a tad disingenuous considering United were using the investments of the Edwards family as far back as the 50s.

MickShamrock

Jose Mourinho

Ferguson. He has a proven track record over a longer period of time.

RasTa

Jose Mourinho

Warper wrote: »

In 20 years time, if Jose stays in management, Fergie's record will look pretty average compared to the Special One.

lol average yeah? The idiocy on this forum astounds me sometimes

He has won 46 trophies as manager which makes him the best British football manager in the history.

St. Mirren
Scottish First Division (1): 1976–77
Aberdeen
Scottish Premier Division (3): 1979–80, 1983–84, 1984–85
Scottish Cup (4): 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1985–86
Scottish League Cup (1): 1985–86
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1982–83
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1983
Manchester United
Premier League (11): 1992–93, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09
FA Cup (5): 1989–90, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1998–99, 2003–04
League Cup (4): 1991–92, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10
FA Charity/Community Shield (9): 1990*, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2007, 2008, 2010 (* shared)
UEFA Champions League (2): 1998–99, 2007–08
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1990–91
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1991
Intercontinental Cup (1): 1999
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008

carlop

Jose Mourinho

flahavaj wrote: »

Regardess of where the dollars came from he hadn't a blank cheque book like he had at Chelsea.

Not that it matters either way tbh, he still had to spend the money well. There plenty sh*thouses who've been a givena fortune to spend and spent it on muck.

He wouldn't have been too far off having a blank cheque book at Inter too if he wanted it.

gosplan wrote: »

LOL

Perhaps not but Porto and Milan were happy enough with him.

Might as well revisit this old chestnut to take us through the rest of the international break. Mourinho has never managed Milan, and I doubt they were best pleased with him seeing as he delivered the CL trophy to their bitter rivals.

Bubs101

Forme it's Jose. Say what you want about breaking the old firm stranglehold but winning the Champion's League with Porto is a far more impressive achievment in my book. In retrospect people have gone back and said "Oh, but he had an amazing team" but at the time nobody knew much about those guys. Then at Chelsea he built a system so strong that four managers have been afraid to move away from it.

He was the first manager to win a treble in Italy,he's won a trophy every year for 8 years and he's suceeded in three of the four distinct styles of European football (Italian, English and Spanish (Portugal)) whereas Fergie has perfected one style and has had such a strong team for so long that he's won the amount of Champion's Leagues that you'd expect.

Mou has also taken on massive challenges in his career, taking on the Man Utd and Arsenal stranglehold on the Premiership, restoring Italian football's pride and now taking on Barca which I have a on of respect for.

Warper

RasTa wrote: »

lol average yeah? The idiocy on this forum astounds me sometimes

The bias on this forum astounds me. Only last year idiots on here were saying Rooney is a better player than Messi. Ronaldo was the best player the previous year when he played for Utd. Its a joke.

Man Utd havn't got the best manager, they are not the best team and they do not have the best player. That is a FACT.

RasTa

Jose Mourinho

Warper wrote: »

The bias on this forum astounds me. Only last year idiots on here were saying Rooney is a better player than Messi. Ronaldo was the best player the previous year when he played for Utd. Its a joke.

Man Utd havn't got the best manager, they are not the best team and they do not have the best player. That is a FACT.

So what I wasn't claiming that was I? My point is you just called Fergie an average manager, who happens to be the most successful in British history.

Warper

RasTa wrote: »

So what I wasn't claiming that was I? My point is you just called Fergie an average manager, who happens to be the most successful in British history.

Can you read??? Stop posting crap. I have said undoubtably Fergie is a world-class manager numerous times already and never said he was an average manager.

RasTa

Jose Mourinho

Warper wrote: »

Can you read??? Stop posting crap. I have said undoubtably Fergie is a world-class manager numerous times already and never said he was an average manager.

You stated his record is average. The bitterness from you towards Fergie is laughable.

Here is some more bitterness just for you. Anyway I'm done debating with a clear troll.

In fairness everything went for Utd during their treble. How they won the CL was some sort of Black Magic. Inter had a perfect goal disallowed by Simeone at Old Trafford in the 1/4 final which would have knocked them out. Juventus played Utd off the park at OT in the fist leg only for a totally undeserved leveller in injury-time. Davids and Zidane were utterly dominant and the likes of Keane couldnt get near them. Juve thought they were through when they went 2-0 up in the return leg and simply played worse than they had all season. The Final was an absolute joke - Munich were clearly the better side and should have been out of sight come the freakish 3 mins in INJURY-TIME. Utd.'s win in 98-99 was one of the luckiest in CL history and thats a fact.

Who can forget Berkgamps peno miss against 10 man Utd in the FA Cup with time up. How often does that happen. Great goal by Giggs but he has never scored a goal like that again. Etc. etc.

To suggest that Arsenal had all the luck?????????

Warper

RasTa wrote: »

You stated his record is average. The bitterness from you towards Fergie is laughable.

Here is some more bitterness just for you. Anyway I'm done debating with a clear troll.

Oh so you have changed your story now after being pulled for lying through your teeth. His record is exceptional and always will be. I said compared to Mourinho in 20 years his record may look average which isnt really true I admit. But stop misquoting me. It really is sad to go back through someones posts trying to deflect from the issue. Im sure i went back through posts I could pull out a few humdingers. Hell you were probably one of those that thought Rooney was better than Messi.

RasTa

Jose Mourinho

Warper wrote: »

. I said compared to Mourinho in 20 years his record may look average which isnt really true I admit.

That's all I wanted to hear

WeeBushy

Jose Mourinho

JerryHandbag wrote: »

Ferginho

Mouriguson

CorkMan

Well Mourinho won the UEFA Cup with Porto then the Champions League the following year. which is pretty great as Porto were just an average side. He also won the title for them 2 times in 2 years.

In Chelsea he won the EPL 2 times in 3 years and at Inter 2 times in 2 years, along with their first European Cup 35 years and their first treble. Ferguson has 14 league titles in total but that is since 1979, 21 years (3 with Aberdeen, 11 with United). Mourinho has won 6 league titles in the past 7 years(Porto 2003, 2004. Chelsea 2005/2006. Inter 2009/2010.)

With the proven success in Portugal, England and Italy I just about choose Mourinho in career totals over Ferguson. If Mourinho does great in Madrid, he clearly takes it IMO. Not to mention he was at Porto one year before he won the CL while Fergie was at United 13 years before he won it.

killwill

Jose Mourinho

Tough one IMO. There is no doubting Mourinho's short term success everywhere he goes, but his biggest test is in La Liga this year. If he wins the league and has a good run in the CL over the next 2 seasons, I will say Mourinho.
For now, I am going with the long term success of Sir Fergie.

#15

Jose Mourinho

Warper wrote: »

He won the Cup Winners Cup, not the UEFA Cup. Ferguson is a great manager, no one is debating that but as someone said if you took over a club and could have any manager in the world. Im pretty sure most people would pick Mourinho. What are you about btw, Mourinho came into the PL and steam-rollered Utd. winning 2 PL on the trot easily.

I think one of Mourinho's greatest acheivement was last years Inter win over Barca. No other manager in the world could have pulled that one off. It really proved that he is the best manager in the world bar none. I'm sure if Jose wanted to stay at one club spending millions every year then he could be every bit as successful as Fergie. I doubt if Fergie could do what Mourinho has done. Dominated Europe wherever he went. In 20 years time, if Jose stays in management, Fergie's record will look pretty average compared to the Special One.
"

How do you fit so much bollox into one post?

Warper

#15 wrote: »

How do you fit so much bollox into one post?

Brilliant post, well done

gosplan

kryogen wrote: »

You cant compare Fergie and Mourinho just yet, its quite simple tbh

OK, but what about ...

kryogen wrote: »

Fergie has signed and nurtured more players to world beating heights then Mourinho

Anyway, 'world beating heights' is a really poor term to use in a discussion like this. Do you mean won the champions league? Or do you just mean really good players?

gosplan

#15 wrote: »

How do you fit so much bollox into one post?

Actually, I can't really see what's wrong with his post.

In the ten years since Mourhino became a coach he's won 2 CL's and six league titles in three countries (including two trebles).

In the 36 years since Fergie entered management he's won 2 CL's and 14 league titles in two different countries (including one treble).

If Mourhino keeps on his present trajectory, he'll match Fergie's 14 league titles in another 12 years or so (22 years as opposed to 36) and should have picked up another couple of champions leagues while doing it. Also he'll have done it all across Europe.

What the hell is there to argue about????

IvySlayer

Jose Mourinho

gosplan wrote: »

Actually, I can't really see what's wrong with his post.

In the ten years since Mourhino became a coach he's won 2 CL's and six league titles in three countries (including two trebles).

In the 36 years since Fergie entered management he's won 2 CL's and 14 league titles in two different countries (including one treble).

If Mourhino keeps on his present trajectory, he'll match Fergie's 14 league titles in another 12 years or so (22 years as opposed to 36) and should have picked up another couple of champions leagues while doing it. Also he'll have done it all across Europe.

What the hell is there to argue about????

Ifs, buts, maybes.

Mourinho could die tomorrow. Right now I'd choose Ferguson for his trophy overhaul.

gosplan

IvySlayer wrote: »

Ifs, buts, maybes.

Mourinho could die tomorrow. Right now I'd choose Ferguson for his trophy overhaul.

Perhaps but the question is 'who's the better manager?'. What you're essentially saying is that it's impossible for anyone to be a better manager (i.e. more talented) until they've won 14 league titles.

Bubs101

IvySlayer wrote: »

Ifs, buts, maybes.

Mourinho could die tomorrow. Right now I'd choose Ferguson for his trophy overhaul.

If Mourinho were to die tommorow that would only strengthen his case as the better manager. 2 trebles, leagues in England and an unbeaten record in Spain in such a short time would be more impressive. Also, isn't he like one of 3 managers to win the CL with two different clubs?

IvySlayer

Jose Mourinho

gosplan wrote: »

Perhaps but the question is 'who's the better manager?'. What you're essentially saying is that it's impossible for anyone to be a better manager (i.e. more talented) until they've won 14 league titles.

What do you judge talent by? Mourinho and Ferguson are both world class. The only thing that seperates them is Fergusons superior trophy count and his consistency.

Mourinho ****ed off from Chelsea when he lost the PL. He ****ed off from Porto and Inter too. Ferguson found his level and has been at the top for a long, long time.

Bubs101 wrote: »

If Mourinho were to die tommorow that would only strengthen his case as the better manager. 2 trebles, leagues in England and an unbeaten record in Spain in such a short time would be more impressive. Also, isn't he like one of 3 managers to win the CL with two different clubs?

Ok Jamie...:P