Ferguson or Mourinho?

gosplan

IvySlayer wrote: »

What do you judge talent by? Mourinho and Ferguson are both world class. The only thing that seperates them is Fergusons superior trophy count and his consistency.

They're both winners. The only way to judge them is who wins more per game or per anum.

Saying Fergie shades it because he's collected more trophies in his much longer managerial career is nonsense. By that rational Giggs is a better player than Ronaldo.

gosplan

IvySlayer wrote: »

Mourinho ****ed off from Chelsea when he lost the PL. He ****ed off from Porto and Inter too. Ferguson found his level and has been at the top for a long, long time.

And this makes zero sense.

Did Fergie **** off from Aberdeen?

Mourhino could have stayed at Inter and walked the next 10 Seria A's but I fail to see how it would make him a better manager.



Anyway my main argument here is how to judge who's better. You can argue a case for either but I think the idea that Fergie's longer career somehow makes him better is stupid. One manager is better, right now. One would do a better job than the other. In my eyes, that's the question, not 'who's had the better career?'

L'prof

Jose Mourinho

gosplan wrote: »

And this makes zero sense.

Did Fergie **** off from Aberdeen?

Mourhino could have stayed at Inter and walked the next 10 Seria A's but I fail to see how it would make him a better manager.

I don't think it makes him a better manager, but with so little between them and Mourinho not having the benefit of an extra 21 years in the game, it would sway me towards Ferguson, in that he's the man I'd want managing my club.

CorkMan

IvySlayer wrote: »

What do you judge talent by? Mourinho and Ferguson are both world class. The only thing that seperates them is Fergusons superior trophy count and his consistency.

Mourinho ****ed off from Chelsea when he lost the PL. He ****ed off from Porto and Inter too. Ferguson found his level and has been at the top for a long, long time.

No offence but Mourinho in his first 2 years at Porto won 2 leagues and the UEFA cup and Champions League. In his first 2 years he won 2 league titles with Chelsea. In his 2 only 2 years with Inter he won 2 scudettos and a champions league.

I don't think he can be marked as inconsistent. If anything, Ferguson didn't achieve anything at his first 5 years at Man United. He could also have got a couple more champions leagues in his 24 years tenure as manager of old trafford to be up to Mourinhos current acclaim.

L'prof wrote: »

I don't think it makes him a better manager, but with so little between them and Mourinho not having the benefit of an extra 21 years in the game, it would sway me towards Ferguson, in that he's the man I'd want managing my club.

Even though he is approaching 70?

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

Warper, who won the league in Mourinhos 3rd season at Chelsea?

L'prof

Jose Mourinho

gosplan wrote: »

On manager is better, right now. One would do a better job than the other. In my eyes, that's the question, not 'who's had the better career?'

Right now, one wins hands down. Better career, it's a much tighter affair and one which one manager should, bit may never eclipse.

L'prof

Jose Mourinho

CorkMan wrote: »

Even though he is approaching 70?

No, at the beginning of his career.

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

Some of the stuff said in here shocks me tbh

People listing off winning the portugeese league with Porto as if its an amazing achievement! on par with winning the scottish league with Aberdeen is it? hmmm

the only thing impressive to me about his Inter reign was the CL win, which was impressive, winning serie A with Inter doesnt exactly take too much does it the last few years

Its not as if he took Chelsea from relegation fodder to Prem glory either is it in fairness, i am not wanting to knock the man, he is clearly a fantastic manager

but people should really start to put things into perspective when thinking about this stuff

He is now at Real Madrid, where imo he can only damage his rep, if he wins everything, meh, why wouldnt he win everything with that team he has (and Barca looking vulnerable this year) and if he doesnt win everything he will tarnish the rep a little bit, in the eyes of certain fans that is

SantryRed

Mourinho is certainly becoming a league winning specialist anyways.

This poll is all about in what context you take it in. Ferguson is obviously better in what he has achieved over Mourinho but Mourinho has another thirty years to go at that!

In terms of who is the best manager at this present moment in time, it has got to be Mourinho for me. Even look at the head to head between the two managers. Am I wrong in saying Ferguson has only beaten Mourinho once? When Fletcher won it at OT? Or am I wrong?

Best manager regarding career: Ferguson
Best manager at this current moment: Mourinho

Bubs101

kryogen wrote: »

winning serie A with Inter doesnt exactly take too much does it

You could say the same about United and the Premiership

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

you are wrong in saying Ferguson has only beaten Mourinho once yes

DOC09UNAM

Jose Mourinho

Bubs101 wrote: »

You could say the same about United and the Premiership

Not really no, the premiership isn't an easy league to win, I imagine even benitez could win the italian league this year.

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

Bubs101 wrote: »

You could say the same about United and the Premiership

its not even close to being the same!!

but if you dont see the difference in when fergie came to United and when Mourinho went to Inter then i cant help you

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Jose Mourinho

Bubs101 wrote: »

You could say the same about United and the Premiership

No you couldn't... Dont feel the need to elaborate...

SantryRed

kryogen wrote: »

you are wrong in saying Ferguson has only beaten Mourinho once yes

03/04
Porto 2-1 Utd
Utd 1-1 Porto

04/05
Chelsea 1-0 Utd
Utd 0-0 Chelsea (CC)
Chelsea 2-1 Utd (CC)
Utd 1-4 Chelsea

05/06
Utd 1-0 Chelsea
Chelsea 3-0 Utd

06/07
Utd 1-1 Chelsea
Chelsea 0-0 Utd
Chelsea 1-0 Utd (FA)

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

did they not play when he was Inter manager then no? why did you leave out those games?

Bubs101

It's not easy now but alot of his early wins were two horse races akin to Inter and Roma

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

Since you forgot ill tell you

Inter 0-0 Man United
Man United 2-0 Inter

L'prof

Jose Mourinho

kryogen wrote: »

Since you forgot ill tell you

Inter 0-0 Man United
Man United 2-0 Inter

Doesn't make it a whole lot better really, Mourinho has a great record in big games like these.

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

L'prof wrote: »

Doesn't make it a whole lot better really, Mourinho has a great record in big games like these.

didnt say it was a whole lot better, correcting an error

flahavaj

Jose Mourinho

I voted Ferguson but I also concede that Mourinho has a great chance of surpassing him if he continues the unbelieveable start he has made to his career. He has basically won everything at every club he has managed, bar the CL at Chelsea (which he had soem unreal bad luck in to be fair).

The best compliment I can pay Jose is he's the only man qualified to fill Fergie's shoes both in terms of CV and personality.

Warper

Lets look at the records shall we. If people on here wont acknowledge Mourinho to be a better manager than Ferguson until he is 70 then the only comparable period is each managers first 10 years in the job. As that is all Mourinho has been manager for its the only period we can compare for the moment:

Mourinho's first 10 years as manager reads like this:
Porto (2002–2004)
2003 Portuguese Liga
2003 Portuguese Cup
2003 UEFA Cup
2003 Portuguese Super Cup
2004 Portugese Liga
2004 UEFA Champions League
Chelsea (2004–2007)
2005 FA Premier League
2005 League Cup
2005 FA Community Shield
2006 FA Premier League
2007 League Cup
2007 FA Cup
Internazionale (2008–2010)
2008 Supercoppa Italiana
2009 Serie A
2010 Serie A
2010 Coppa Italia
2010 UEFA Champions League

The Treble (League, Cup and European trophy)
2002–03 with Porto: League, Cup and UEFA Cup
2009–10 with Internazionale: League, Cup and UEFA Champions League


Ferguson's first 10 years as manager:
St. Mirren
Scottish First Division (1): 1976–77
Aberdeen
Scottish Premier Division (3): 1979–80, 1983–84
Scottish Cup (4): 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1982–83
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1983

Mars Bar

Jose Mourinho

Warper wrote: »

Lets look at the records shall we. If people on here wont acknowledge Mourinho to be a better manager than Ferguson until he is 70 then the only comparable period is each managers first 10 years in the job. As that is all Mourinho has been manager for its the only period we can compare for the moment:

Mourinho's first 10 years as manager reads like this:
Porto (2002–2004)
2003 Portuguese Liga
2003 Portuguese Cup
2003 UEFA Cup
2003 Portuguese Super Cup
2004 Portugese Liga
2004 UEFA Champions League
Chelsea (2004–2007)
2005 FA Premier League
2005 League Cup
2005 FA Community Shield
2006 FA Premier League
2007 League Cup
2007 FA Cup
Internazionale (2008–2010)
2008 Supercoppa Italiana
2009 Serie A
2010 Serie A
2010 Coppa Italia
2010 UEFA Champions League

The Treble (League, Cup and European trophy)
2002–03 with Porto: League, Cup and UEFA Cup
2009–10 with Internazionale: League, Cup and UEFA Champions League

^
Players and money at his disposal.

Ferguson's first 10 years as manager:
St. Mirren
Scottish First Division (1): 1976–77
Aberdeen
Scottish Premier Division (3): 1979–80, 1983–84
Scottish Cup (4): 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1982–83
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1983

^
Sweet fúck all at his disposal.


I hope Mourinho is around for a long, long time yet. It's gonna be great to see what he achieves!

DOC09UNAM

Jose Mourinho

To break the old firm dominance and win the european cup with them is a far greater achievement than walking into rich teams and winning a few cups.

- edit, damn you mars bar.

Warper

Well then, we can look at the last 10 years:

Manchester United
Premier League 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09
FA Cup : 2003–04
League Cup : 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10
FA Charity/Community Shield 2003, 2007, 2008, 2010
UEFA Champions League : 2007–08
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008

Warper

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

To break the old firm dominance and win the european cup with them is a far greater achievement than walking into rich teams and winning a few cups.

- edit, damn you mars bar.

Ya winning stuff with a poor club like Utd is much better.

niallo27

There should be a third choice on there for people who hate both the ****ers

Liam O

Warper wrote: »

Big long list of trophies won in first 10 years

i love how you did Mourinho's by year and Fergie's in one big block so that Mourinho looks more impressive, fairplay...

niallo27 wrote: »

There should be a third choice on there for people who hate both the ****ers

or at least an option for niallo27 to be better than both :rolleyes:

SantryRed

kryogen wrote: »

Since you forgot ill tell you

Inter 0-0 Man United
Man United 2-0 Inter

Forgot about those games. Instead of being awkward about it you could have told me what games he won against Mourinho instead of just telling me I was wrong!

recylingbin

Warper wrote: »

Well then, we can look at the last 10 years:

Manchester United
Premier League 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09
FA Cup : 2003–04
League Cup : 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10
FA Charity/Community Shield 2003, 2007, 2008, 2010
UEFA Champions League : 2007–08
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008

You forgot this

Mars Bar

Jose Mourinho

Manchester United
Premier League 2000–01,
Premier League 2002–03,
Premier League 2006–07,
Premier League 2007–08,
Premier League 2008–09
FA Cup : 2003–04
League Cup: 2005–06,
League Cup: 2008–09,
League Cup: 2009–10
FA Charity/Community Shield 2003,
FA Charity/Community Shield 2007,
FA Charity/Community Shield 2008,
FA Charity/Community Shield2010
UEFA Champions League : 2007–08
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008

=15 trophies.

Mourinho's first 10 years as manager reads like this:
Porto (2002–2004)
2003 Portuguese Liga
2003 Portuguese Cup
2003 UEFA Cup
2003 Portuguese Super Cup
2004 Portugese Liga
2004 UEFA Champions League
Chelsea (2004–2007)
2005 FA Premier League
2005 League Cup
2005 FA Community Shield
2006 FA Premier League
2007 League Cup
2007 FA Cup
Internazionale (2008–2010)
2008 Supercoppa Italiana
2009 Serie A
2010 Serie A
2010 Coppa Italia
2010 UEFA Champions League

=17 trophies.

You're making it out as if Mourinho has won twice as much as Fergie has.

Fergie in those 10 years has seen off one team, rebuilt the squad around a few key players and brought in and nurtured two of the greatest players in the world for a second team.

Mourinho has pretty much landed in a ready made squad in two of his changes.

Fergie had to build and implement, Mourinho only had to implement.

carlop

Jose Mourinho

Warper wrote: »

Lets look at the records shall we. If people on here wont acknowledge Mourinho to be a better manager than Ferguson until he is 70 then the only comparable period is each managers first 10 years in the job. As that is all Mourinho has been manager for its the only period we can compare for the moment:

Mourinho's first 10 years as manager reads like this:
Porto (2002–2004)
2003 Portuguese Liga
2003 Portuguese Cup
2003 UEFA Cup
2003 Portuguese Super Cup
2004 Portugese Liga
2004 UEFA Champions League
Chelsea (2004–2007)
2005 FA Premier League
2005 League Cup
2005 FA Community Shield
2006 FA Premier League
2007 League Cup
2007 FA Cup
Internazionale (2008–2010)
2008 Supercoppa Italiana
2009 Serie A
2010 Serie A
2010 Coppa Italia
2010 UEFA Champions League

The Treble (League, Cup and European trophy)
2002–03 with Porto: League, Cup and UEFA Cup
2009–10 with Internazionale: League, Cup and UEFA Champions League


Ferguson's first 10 years as manager:
St. Mirren
Scottish First Division (1): 1976–77
Aberdeen
Scottish Premier Division (3): 1979–80, 1983–84
Scottish Cup (4): 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1982–83
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1983

Porto was not Mourinho's first job.

DOC09UNAM

Jose Mourinho

carlop wrote: »

Porto was not Mourinho's first job.

What's your point?

CorkMan

mars bar wrote: »

^
Sweet fúck all at his disposal.


I hope Mourinho is around for a long, long time yet. It's gonna be great to see what he achieves!

TBH what did Mourinho have at Porto? On an continental level he got the UEFA Cup and Champions League though. Plus Fergie came close to being sacked at Man U for his first 5 years.

Not that this is a fault, but Mourinho has swept a magic-broom instantly at every club he has been too. (Bar his very first 2 years, wheres Fergie was at St Mirren for 4 years in that criteria)

Bubs101

mars bar wrote: »

Fergie in those 10 years has seen off one team, rebuilt the squad around a few key players and brought in and nurtured two of the greatest players in the world for a second team.

Mourinho has pretty much landed in a ready made squad in two of his changes.

Fergie had to build and implement, Mourinho only had to implement.

What? Bollox, utter bollox. If you look at his Inter squad he rebuilt the squad around 3 world class players in 1 year and won the treble.He changed the way they played by selling Ibra then bought the top scorer in Milito, the best player in the world last year in Sneijder, Eto'o and their best defender in Lucio. He completely changed the way the team operated.

Fergie has the luxury of being able to plan ahead massively while Jose doesn't. Rebuilding should be much much easier for him because he knows where he'll be in 3 years so he can sign players like Macheda and the Da Silva brothers knowing he can teach them how to play his style and that he'll get to use them. Mourinho has to get established players in, teach them immediately and then gel them. He's always rebuilding, Fergie is still using Giggs and Scholes

DOC09UNAM

Jose Mourinho

Bubs101 wrote: »

What? Bollox, utter bollox. If you look at his Inter squad he rebuilt the squad around 3 world class players in 1 year and won the treble.He changed the way they played by selling Ibra then bought the top scorer in Milito, the best player in the world last year in Sneijder, Eto'o and their best defender in Lucio. He completely changed the way the team operated.

Fergie has the luxury of being able to plan ahead massively while Jose doesn't. Rebuilding should be much much easier for him because he knows where he'll be in 3 years so he can sign players like Macheda and the Da Silva brothers knowing he can teach them how to play his style and that he'll get to use them. Mourinho has to get established players in, teach them immediately and then gel them. He's always rebuilding, Fergie is still using Giggs and Scholes

So your reasoning for Mourinho being better is that he has to walk into a club, spend a ton of money and then help them win a league and a cup.

And your problem with Ferguson, is that he brings in talented young players and moulds them into great players over time?

Strange one that.

Bubs101

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

So your reasoning for Mourinho being better is that he has to walk into a club, spend a ton of money and then help them win a league and a cup.

And your problem with Ferguson, is that he brings in talented young players and moulds them into great players over time?

Strange one that.

No, I was merely pointing out that when it comes to rebuilding a team Mourinho essentially revamped Inter in a year to a treble winning team

Warper

For me having won major titles in the top European Leagues is harder than staying at one of the richest clubs in the world for the past 25 years.
Mourinho has to get used to the players, staff, culture, language in a short space of time and still he produces results that no one other manager has ever produced in such a short space of time.

Jose is a relative novice in management. He is still improving as coach which is frightening. Already he has amassed as many CL's as Fergie despite Fergie being a manager for over 35 years. It took Fergie 15 years as manager of Man Utd to conquer the best competition in Europe, not even reaching a final in that time. With the main man Jose, just a couple, with Porto of all teams, winning a treble in the process.

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

Look, i get that your a Mourinho fanboy, its not a problem in itself, but to be unable to accept that someone may have a different opinion on it without trying to say hes ****e is just sad

And manipulating stats and the like is just foolish, everybody sees through it and it works against you

Have you answered my question yet? who won the league in Mourinhos 3rd season at Chelsea?

DOC09UNAM

Jose Mourinho

kryogen wrote: »

Look, i get that your a Mourinho fanboy, its not a problem in itself, but to be unable to accept that someone may have a different opinion on it without trying to say hes ****e is just sad

And manipulating stats and the like is just foolish, everybody sees through it and it works against you

Have you answered my question yet? who won the league in Mourinhos 3rd season at Chelsea?

Even though he is talking out his arse IMO.

The stats he posted were like that on wikipedia, which is where I'm assuming he got all his information tbh.

Warper

kryogen wrote: »

Look, i get that your a Mourinho fanboy, its not a problem in itself, but to be unable to accept that someone may have a different opinion on it without trying to say hes ****e is just sad

And manipulating stats and the like is just foolish, everybody sees through it and it works against you

Have you answered my question yet? who won the league in Mourinhos 3rd season at Chelsea?

Manipulating stats - lol. How can one manipulate statistics? They are the only facts we have. Asking questions like who won the League in Jose's third year is just sad. Its like asking who won the first 2? Utd. won in Jose's third year at Chelsea which leaves Jose 2, Fergie 1 in scores.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here yet is Mourinho is tactically superior to Ferguson which a major attribute in any manager. Not to mention he has the better head-to-head between the two. Ah its great being right.

Warper

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Even though he is talking out his arse IMO.

The stats he posted were like that on wikipedia, which is where I'm assuming he got all his information tbh.

What utter bullsh1t. What does it matter where the stats come from once they are accurate. Are you suggesting that the stats I produced were lies or do you just not like the actual facts.

DOC09UNAM

Jose Mourinho

Yeah, it's great being right alright.

You should try it sometime.

DOC09UNAM

Jose Mourinho

Warper wrote: »

What utter bullsh1t. What does it matter where the stats come from once they are accurate. Are you suggesting that the stats I produced were lies or do you just not like the actual facts.

I was defending you.

But thanks for confirming my thoughts that you are absolutely clueless.

Warper

Poor sad little Utd boys just can't face up to the truth.

kryogen

Jose Mourinho

You unable to answer the direct question you have been asked 3 times now Warper, who won the league in Mourinhos 3rd season at Chelsea

Who raised the bar yet again and made Jose his bitch?

ah, now i see you answered it, well done

now the point is, i said Fergie raised the level again and beat him. you asked me what i was on about

simples

DOC09UNAM

Jose Mourinho

kryogen wrote: »

You unable to answer the direct question you have been asked 3 times now Warper, who won the league in Mourinhos 3rd season at Chelsea

Who raised the bar yet again and made Jose his bitch?

ah, now i see you answered it, well done

now the point is, i said Fergie raised the level again and beat him. you asked me what i was on about

simples

I think the answer there is Fergie.

Who won it in Jose's 4th season at Chelsea?

Couldn't have been jose, cause he bitched out and left the league.

Warper

kryogen wrote: »

You unable to answer the direct question you have been asked 3 times now Warper, who won the league in Mourinhos 3rd season at Chelsea

Who raised the bar yet again and made Jose his bitch?

Listen I know you find it hard to read and all considering that was answered in Post 142 so run along now.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Jose Mourinho

Warper wrote: »

For me having won major titles in the top European Leagues is harder than staying at one of the richest clubs in the world for the past 25 years.

Ya but I think the point some people are trying to make is that United weren't even one of England's top clubs before Fergie came, whereas Chelsea and Inter had all the resources in the world. I think both are great managers but the fact that Fergie turned English football on its head wins it for me. That said, at the end of Mourinho's I think he will be considered the greatest coach of all time. Right now tho, its Fergie.

Warper

This is funny, its like being up against a tag-team repeating the same sh1t. Typical Utd. bully-boy tactics. Just keep on thanking each other and ganging-up when faced with the facts.