Are Muslim men and women not allowed to socialise?

Piste

Hi, just noticed something in college, our Islamic society tends to mail the whole student body about their events, not just Muslim students so I'm aware of a lot of the activities they run and one thing that struck me is there's always seperate activities for male and female students. They're even having a social night in which the exact same activity will take place (think it's just refreshments), but in separate rooms for the guys and girls. Are Muslims not permitted to be friends with any member of the opposite sex? If not, how do they make marriages work if they're not used to being in the company of members of the opposite sex?

mmalaka

KaiserMc wrote: »

*SNIP* User has retracted their statement. requested this also removed. - Hobbes

Wow........From where you get all of this information? The AH Forum???? it is totally wrong....

mmalaka

Piste wrote: »

Hi, just noticed something in college, our Islamic society tends to mail the whole student body about their events, not just Muslim students so I'm aware of a lot of the activities they run and one thing that struck me is there's always seperate activities for male and female students. They're even having a social night in which the exact same activity will take place (think it's just refreshments), but in separate rooms for the guys and girls. Are Muslims not permitted to be friends with any member of the opposite sex? If not, how do they make marriages work if they're not used to being in the company of members of the opposite sex?

Muslims are allowed to be friends with any member of the opposite sex...they go to university and work together..some of activities are ok like table quize or something...other activities would not be allowed like dancing in a night club..

estreet girl

I have been in the company of muslim women who are on a "date" with their intended and they have had a chaperone accompany them. Maybe a mother or an aunt. This was in Ankara.

donaghs

mmalaka wrote: »

...other activities would not be allowed like dancing in a night club..

Not wanting to sound facitious, but I presume that isn't mentioned in the Koran or the Hadiths?

estreet girl

Having travelled within Turkey for example, I have seen both the modern westernised muslim woman, who will drink and attend nightclubs with friends. Then there is the more traditional take where the woman is chaperoned and generally wears the head scarf. Both of these women can be found in Istanbul, Ankara, Konya and along the western seaboard.
Travel in to central Anatolia and the east of the country and the borders with Iran etc become more evident. Here the women do not stand a chance and it is well documented that there is a very high suicide rate among these women who see the way they could be living through the media but are not permitted to do so. In fact we have all read about the consequences these women face when they do not "toe the line".
Any way prob gone way off topic, but getting back to Turkey which is of course a Muslim country, the men drink (raki is national drink) the national pastime is smoking and they will philander where they can get away with it, all while getting down on their knees five times a day. Certainly not characteristic Muslim living, but a modern take on it perhaps and far preferable to the extremist murdering in the name of religion.

irishconvert

estreet girl wrote: »

Having travelled within Turkey for example, I have seen both the modern westernised muslim woman, who will drink and attend nightclubs with friends. Then there is the more traditional take where the woman is chaperoned and generally wears the head scarf. Both of these women can be found in Istanbul, Ankara, Konya and along the western seaboard.
Travel in to central Anatolia and the east of the country and the borders with Iran etc become more evident. Here the women do not stand a chance and it is well documented that there is a very high suicide rate among these women who see the way they could be living through the media but are not permitted to do so. In fact we have all read about the consequences these women face when they do not "toe the line".
Any way prob gone way off topic, but getting back to Turkey which is of course a Muslim country, the men drink (raki is national drink) the national pastime is smoking and they will philander where they can get away with it, all while getting down on their knees five times a day. Certainly not characteristic Muslim living, but a modern take on it perhaps and far preferable to the extremist murdering in the name of religion.

So much generalisation there :rolleyes:

Major Lovechild

irishconvert wrote: »

So much generalisation there :rolleyes:

Which part exactly?

Piste

mmalaka wrote: »

Muslims are allowed to be friends with any member of the opposite sex...they go to university and work together..some of activities are ok like table quize or something...other activities would not be allowed like dancing in a night club..

This particular event was literally just a social coffee event, which is why I thought it odd that the ladies evening was in a seperate room to the guys.

irishconvert

In relation to Piste's original question, in Islam free mixing of the sexes is not allowed. Men and women can mix in work, or other situations where it is necessary, but not socially.

As regards making marriages work, usually the family are involved in matching people up who would be compatible. When two families agree they would like their children to marry, they would arrange a meeting between the two (with a chaperone present) and if the two people agree, they get engaged, then married. There may be several meetings before the couple agree to engage or marry.

Piste

So is the only time a woman would have any sort of non-professional contact with a man when she is presented with a potential husband?

irishconvert

Piste wrote: »

So is the only time a woman would have any sort of non-professional contact with a man when she is presented with a potential husband?

Yes.

maxxie

you could have four birds! id join that soc

CiaranMT

estreet girl wrote: »

Any way prob gone way off topic, but getting back to Turkey which is of course a Muslim country, the men drink (raki is national drink) the national pastime is smoking and they will philander where they can get away with it, all while getting down on their knees five times a day. Certainly not characteristic Muslim living, but a modern take on it perhaps and far preferable to the extremist murdering in the name of religion.

Just a trifling point, but to the best of my knowledge, Turkey is a secular state.

oceanclub

irishconvert wrote: »

In relation to Piste's original question, in Islam free mixing of the sexes is not allowed. Men and women can mix in work, or other situations where it is necessary, but not socially.

Is this an element of Islam as a whole, or the more fundamentalist Wahabbist strain that has crept in?

EDIT: I'm also curious, but does mixing with workmates outside of work hours constitute personal or professional?

P.

Piste

Thanks a mil for directly answering my question irishconvert. I have another one to follow, why is this the case?

gaf1983

irishconvert wrote: »

In relation to Piste's original question, in Islam free mixing of the sexes is not allowed. Men and women can mix in work, or other situations where it is necessary, but not socially.

I too would like to know why is this the case.

Is it ok for members of the opposite sex to be friends at work?

oceanclub

gaf1983 wrote: »

I too would like to know why is this the case.

Is it ok for members of the opposite sex to be friends at work?

I really would be interested to know this too, as it would certainly contribute somewhat to statistics about Muslim employment. I was headhunted for my current position by a female friend, for example.

P.

markphillips

oceanclub wrote: »

I really would be interested to know this too, as it would certainly contribute somewhat to statistics about Muslim employment. I was headhunted for my current position by a female friend, for example.

P.

Me three.

trolol

irishconvert wrote: »

In relation to Piste's original question, in Islam free mixing of the sexes is not allowed. Men and women can mix in work, or other situations where it is necessary, but not socially.

As regards making marriages work, usually the family are involved in matching people up who would be compatible. When two families agree they would like their children to marry, they would arrange a meeting between the two (with a chaperone present) and if the two people agree, they get engaged, then married. There may be several meetings before the couple agree to engage or marry.

Is that not a bit sexist?

hivizman

trolol wrote: »

Is that not a bit sexist?

Sexism is defined (in the online thefreedictionary.com) as:

1. Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
2. Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.

As irishconvert describes things, the same constraints apply equally to men and women, so I don't think it's correct to describe either the discouragement of "free mixing" of men and women in social situations, or the preferred way of setting up marriages, as "sexist".

oceanclub

hivizman wrote: »

As irishconvert describes things, the same constraints apply equally to men and women, so I don't think it's correct to describe either the discouragement of "free mixing" of men and women in social situations, or the preferred way of setting up marriages, as "sexist".

Perhaps it doesn't seem directly sexist, but it does enforce gender roles and therefore contributes to sexism.

P.

hivizman

oceanclub wrote: »

Perhaps it doesn't seem directly sexist, but it does enforce gender roles and therefore contributes to sexism.

Yes, that's a fair comment. Underlying the dislike of "free mixing" is a fundamental belief that men and women, though in theory equal, are different. In practice, men and women are not equal, for example, although the Qur'an is clear that modesty is a requirement of both men and women, how the different genders are expected to show their modesty is not the same. Hence, men are expected to cover their bodies from their navels to their knees, but women are expected to cover all but their faces and hands in the presence of unrelated men (and many Muslims assert that even women's faces and hands should be covered in this situation). Ironically, some men and women find the avoidance of free mixing to be liberating, but I'm sure that there are others who find it constraining.

Piste

Why is free mixing frowned upon though?

biko

I think it's down one of the main issues I have with Islam, that women aren't considered full members of society.
Islam considers a woman to be equal to a man as a human being and as his partner in this life. But in practice this is not the case.
A man is free to walk around unrestricted and mingle with whomever he chooses whereas his wife or daughters cannot.

If a woman mixes with a man not family "inappropriately" it can/will disgrace the family (her husband), with dire consequences for the woman.
If you're interested in women in Islam you should read books by Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Of course there are Muslim "flavours" that are less restrictive but I wouldn't bet on them winning over the more fundamentalist as time progresses.

Zombrex

Piste wrote: »

Why is free mixing frowned upon though?

From iloveallaah.com

What is considered free mixing?

- Men and women are permitted to be in the same place. (i.e. shops, streets etc)
- Men and women should avoid situations where they are crowded together or seated together.
- Repetitive acquaintance should be avoided to prevent familiarity.
- Business like discussion between man and woman is permissible when necessary.

Why is it like this?

- Prevention of intimate relationships developing outside of marriage.
- Prevention of gossip and slander that can destroy relationships and families.
- Prevention of one party "falling in love" and being hurt.
- Prevention of children being born outside of marriage.
- Prevention of families being broken up.

Basically if you don't mix socially with members of the opposite sex it becomes impossible to do any of the bad things you could do with members of the opposite sex. Seems like over kill to me, but I'm not Muslim and you can't really argue with the logic that if you never put yourself in a position where anything could go bad nothing will ever go bad.

Wolfe Tone

Thats a bit sad. So a Muslim woman cant have male friends? Save for work colleagues?

oceanclub

Prevention of one party "falling in love" and being hurt.

What kind of sad life is that? Love is all about opening yourself up to being vulnerable. If you don't want to get hurt, lock yourself in a room for the rest of your life. You won't get hurt, but you'll never live either.

P.

heavyballs

just my tuppunce

my sister is a Muslim,we're Irish catholics btw

the religion is a joke,and no it's not ok to mix or socialize with the opposite sex if you're female,but it's fine for the men to mix,

the other day my sister was in my house,door bel goes, it's my mate,she legs it upstairs,says when her husband comes to collect her he would go mad if she's there chatting away to me and my mate

it's so sexist,all muslim mem i've met are insecure bullying arseholes

heavyballs

heavyballs wrote: »

just my tuppunce

my sister is a Muslim,we're Irish catholics btw

the religion is a joke,and no it's not ok to mix or socialize with the opposite sex if you're female,but it's fine for the men to mix,

the other day my sister was in my house,door bel goes, it's my mate,she legs it upstairs,says when her husband comes to collect her he would go mad if she's there chatting away to me and my mate

it's so sexist,all muslim mem i've met are insecure bullying arseholes

I thought it would be ok since you're her relative?!
Sounds more like yer man's problem
does seem like it could allow for sexism like that though, while I see the original merit, it's a pity it can be so easily twisted

irishconvert

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats a bit sad.

oceanclub wrote: »

What kind of sad life is that? Love is all about opening yourself up to being vulnerable. If you don't want to get hurt, lock yourself in a room for the rest of your life. You won't get hurt, but you'll never live either.

P.

heavyballs wrote: »

the religion is a joke,and no it's not ok to mix or socialize with the opposite sex if you're female,but it's fine for the men to mix,

the other day my sister was in my house,door bel goes, it's my mate,she legs it upstairs,says when her husband comes to collect her he would go mad if she's there chatting away to me and my mate

it's so sexist,all muslim mem i've met are insecure bullying arseholes

Ok, enough of this, all above comments clearly against the forum charter