ear pinning!!

pitbull_fanatic · 17-10-2010 11:46pm

Discodog wrote: »

But in effect it is because any Vet who carried it out would be open to an accusation of mutilation. Lots of medical practices are not illegal but medical & veterinary practitioners won't carry them out.

A Vet could be struck off unless he could prove that there was a medical reason. You might be able to argue this for one ear but not two.

Under Irish Law only a Vet can carry out a surgical procedure there is no need to make a specific law banning cropping.

Btw EGAR knows more about PB's than you could ever imagine.

ya i know no vet will do it. i'v said that already. in my earlier posts i'v said its not illegal but its very hard to find a vet who will do it. wtf has ear cropping got to do wit pb's anyway??!! noone mentioned pitbulls so back the truck up bud. not everything she says is gospel. thats what i'm saying. she has something smart to say to most newcomers. i'm only saying theres no need for it. i know more than she thinks...

pitbull_fanatic · 17-10-2010 11:48pm

EGAR wrote: »

I rest my case . It must be a very lonely place .

what is your case?

Discodog · 18-10-2010 12:21am

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

ya i know no vet will do it. i'v said that already. in my earlier posts i'v said its not illegal but its very hard to find a vet who will do it. wtf has ear cropping got to do wit pb's anyway??!! noone mentioned pitbulls so back the truck up bud. not everything she says is gospel. thats what i'm saying. she has something smart to say to most newcomers. i'm only saying theres no need for it. i know more than she thinks...

You mentioned PB's & I don't drive a truck. EGAR does offer a lot of advice to everyone, not just newcomers. The majority listen & often learn as 15 years & rehoming hundreds of PB's together with running the only PB rescue does give one a little knowledge.

If you don't like advice & opinion then an animal forum may not be for you as this is what the rest of us are here for. Your comments & the tone in which you deliver them give the impression that you know little. Maybe if you conducted yourself in a pleasant & polite manner we might think differently.

Why don't you show your knowledge & explain, in English, what comments you disagree with & why ?.

pitbull_fanatic · 18-10-2010 12:27am

advice i can take no prob. every one needs advice at some stage. but when i say its not banned everyone has to argue. i give proof and they still argue! what more can i do. my tone is calm by the way. very calm. and if you dont mind...please quote where i mentioned pitbulls because i dont recall where and when.

thebullkf · 18-10-2010 12:29am

Discodog wrote: »

You mentioned PB's & I don't drive a truck. EGAR does offer a lot of advice to everyone, not just newcomers. The majority listen & often learn as 15 years & rehoming hundreds of PB's together with running the only PB rescue does give one a little knowledge.

If you don't like advice & opinion then an animal forum may not be for you as this is what the rest of us are here for. Your comments & the tone in which you deliver them give the impression that you know little. Maybe if you conducted yourself in a pleasant & polite manner we might think differently.

Why don't you show your knowledge & explain, in English, what comments you disagree with & why ?.

tbf i find your tone condescending.... not saying you're wrong mind you.;)

Discodog · 18-10-2010 12:36am

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

advice i can take no prob. every one needs advice at some stage. but when i say its not banned everyone has to argue. i give proof and they still argue! what more can i do. my tone is calm by the way. very calm. and if you dont mind...please quote where i mentioned pitbulls because i dont recall where and when.

You mentioned your Staffie & yes EGAR is an authority on those as well. You also mentioned disagreeing with EGAR elsewhere than on Boards. No one argued. People pointed out that something doesn't have to be illegal to be effectively banned.

pitbull_fanatic · 18-10-2010 12:39am

get your facts right bud. what did i say about my staffy?? that she is prone to ear infections?? am i wrong there too? what exactly do ya mean??

Discodog · 18-10-2010 12:40am

thebullkf wrote: »

tbf i find your tone condescending.... not saying you're wrong mind you.;)

I agree with you & perhaps I should apologise but when someone slags off a person who has devoted a big chunk of their life to helping dogs the natural instinct to apologise kind of disappears.

Discodog · 18-10-2010 12:42am

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

get your facts right bud. what did i say about my staffy?? that she is prone to ear infections?? am i wrong there too? what exactly do ya mean??

Sorry but I need to watch some paint drying - & yes that is also a bit condescending but I don't care. Night night !

pokertalk · 18-10-2010 12:50am

tuff room:eek:

pitbull_fanatic · 18-10-2010 12:54am

Discodog wrote: »

Sorry but I need to watch some paint drying - & yes that is also a bit condescending but I don't care. Night night !

still didnt explain.

Discodog · 18-10-2010 8:57am

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

i know some scumbags jus cut dogs ears off with scissors n detol. but in a sterile environment with anasthetic...no prob.

You see "no prob" with ear cropping providing it is done by a Vet. Myself, EGAR, other posters & Veterinary Ireland (all Irish Vets) consider it as mutilation.

Discodog · 18-10-2010 8:59am

pokertalk wrote: »

tuff room:eek:

thebullkf · 19-10-2010 1:08am

Discodog wrote: »

I agree with you & perhaps I should apologise but when someone slags off a person who has devoted a big chunk of their life to helping dogs the natural instinct to apologise kind of disappears.

no need at all

.. i see both sides tbh,it seems sometimes things can get misconstrued..god knows its happened to me... (recently too)
whereas my tone has been called into question,yet i never meant my particular posts to be taken that way.in the end itwas pointless fighting it, i think PBfanatic might be misconstrued a bit ..(i hope;))

anyways i loves a good arguement so's i do...lets kick on..:P

pokertalk · 19-10-2010 8:29pm

Discodog wrote: »

You see "no prob" with ear cropping providing it is done by a Vet. Myself, EGAR, other posters & Veterinary Ireland (all Irish Vets) consider it as mutilation.

what about tail docking?

Discodog · 19-10-2010 11:16pm

Tail docking is also classed as mutilation by Veterinary Ireland. One aspect that has been ignored is that dogs rely the movement of their tails & ears when communicating with humans & other dogs.

Anyone who has watched their dog meeting another dog will of noticed how the tails will often stand erect with just the tip wagging. Then as the dog relaxes the whole tail wags. Docking denies the dog this ability.

I wonder if the desire to ear crop is also linked to wanting dogs to look more aggressive. Do we perceive Wolf like dogs as more of a danger whereas floppy ears just look more cute & safe ?. A Doberman or Dane look very different with cropped ears.

pitbull_fanatic · 20-10-2010 1:27am

no matter what anyone says they going to be ganged up on. ye are all very clannish. my arguement was that ear cropping is not banned and its not so thats me done. tails is a different story. i agree that they need their tails for communication.

toadfly · 20-10-2010 8:19am

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

my arguement was that ear cropping is not banned and its not so thats me done.

So you think its ok to crop a dogs ears, whether its for medical reasons or not?

ISDW · 20-10-2010 8:40am

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

no matter what anyone says they going to be ganged up on. ye are all very clannish. my arguement was that ear cropping is not banned and its not so thats me done. tails is a different story. i agree that they need their tails for communication.

I think they need their ears for the same thing, I often see my dogs' ears in different position, dependent on their demeanour. Do you know if a dog can still move its ears if they are cropped? I'm not ganging up, I'm asking as I genuinely don't know.

ppink · 20-10-2010 8:40am

TillyGirl wrote: »

So you think its ok to crop a dogs ears, whether its for medical reasons or not?

see post 26

Discodog · 20-10-2010 8:41am

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

ear pinning is not illegal its just frowned upon. jus like docking tails. its not cruel.

There is your answer Tilly. If agreeing with the Veterinary profession is clannish they I am guilty.

thebullkf · 20-10-2010 9:51am

Discodog wrote: »

There is your answer Tilly. If agreeing with the Veterinary profession is clannish they I am guilty.

i agree with the docking part. had a boxer with a HUGE tail:D

I also agree that Communites on boards are clannish,clique-ish.

not a critique-just an observation-

( If you tend to disagree vehemently with certain posters there's a'crowd' waiting, and the 'thanks' brigade are just as guilty.
Not everybody can read every thread on boards and it seems especially prevalent when someone brings up a subject thats had a particularly long thread about it already.For instance,in the cycling forum there was a thread about cycling in bus lanes (illegal) and the fact that cyclists refused to use cycle lanes provided, i commented on the fact that maybe road tax should be an option if cyclists gonna consistently use the road, therefore rendering it legal also- i got a barage of replies-systematic questioning from the same few posters each thanking the other-
i got an infraction for mentioning 'road tax'- because it was regarded as shit stirring.

end result= i probably won't post there again as it seems you can't dip yout toes in every now and then. its a trend i've noticed on boards.
Again this is just an observation, not a criticism so to speak.
apologies for going off topic.)

ISDW · 20-10-2010 10:43am

thebullkf wrote: »

i agree with the docking part. had a boxer with a HUGE tail:D

I also agree that Communites on boards are clannish,clique-ish.

not a critique-just an observation-

( If you tend to disagree vehemently with certain posters there's a'crowd' waiting, and the 'thanks' brigade are just as guilty.
Not everybody can read every thread on boards and it seems especially prevalent when someone brings up a subject thats had a particularly long thread about it already.For instance,in the cycling forum there was a thread about cycling in bus lanes (illegal) and the fact that cyclists refused to use cycle lanes provided, i commented on the fact that maybe road tax should be an option if cyclists gonna consistently use the road, therefore rendering it legal also- i got a barage of replies-systematic questioning from the same few posters each thanking the other-
i got an infraction for mentioning 'road tax'- because it was regarded as shit stirring.

end result= i probably won't post there again as it seems you can't dip yout toes in every now and then. its a trend i've noticed on boards.
Again this is just an observation, not a criticism so to speak.
apologies for going off topic.)

Ah but you also learn so much, I didn't know it was illegal to cycle in bus lanes, in the UK it is totally legal and makes sense to me, although the way London buses are driven, probably not the safest place to be:rolleyes:

DBCyc · 20-10-2010 10:50am

ISDW wrote: »

Ah but you also learn so much, I didn't know it was illegal to cycle in bus lanes, in the UK it is totally legal and makes sense to me, although the way London buses are driven, probably not the safest place to be:rolleyes:

Be careful with boards! It certainly is not illegal to cycle in a bus lane. Although if there is a mandatory (solid white line) cycle lane provided, you must cycle in it. The government have said recently that they will get rid of this requirement as a lot of cycle lanes are substandard.

Woah - that was way off topic!

Back on topic - I can't see any justifiable reason to crop a dogs ears unless there is a serious medical problem. I would imagine that an ear infection would have to be extremely serious before a vet would even consider cropping a dogs ears.

Feargal as Luimneach · 20-10-2010 11:01am

Didn't read the whole thread, but the original vet was cropping the ear for medical reasons NOT for cosmetic reason.
I myself had a white cat presented to me that was constantly getting sunburnt on the tips of the ears. (The ears were also getting secondarily infected) This could have resulted in the cat getting skin cancer. I removed the pinna from both sides. The result was a vast improvement in the cat's welfare. No more sunburn and infections.

adser53 · 20-10-2010 11:20am

Just a question thats slightly related to the topic regarding tail docking.... First off I dont think ears or tails should be touched for cosmetic reasons but I have heard it's acceptable for working dogs to have their tails docked. For example a springer spaniel used as a gun dog. Are their tales not docked to prevent injuries as they run through brush, thorny undergrowth etc or is this just an urban legend? If it is always done for this reason, and is frowned on by the V.I then do the owners/breeders do it themselves?!
I think ears and tails being docked is completely unnecessary but peoples perception of breeds and their standards havn't changed as quick as the vets opinions on the subject. You ask any joe soap and they think its normal for rotties to have docked tails, dobes with pinned ears etc because up until recent years, it was the norm. I myself only saw my first full tailed rottie a few weeks ago (I had never noticed before then)

TooManyDogs · 20-10-2010 11:27am

In the UK (as far as I'm aware) it is illegal to dock a dogs tail unless it's intended to be a working dog. The breeders claim that docking spaniels tails prevents injury but there's differing opinions as to whether there is an abundance of tail injuries in undergrowth. Anti docking side says that there are as many ear injuries in undergrowth as tail injuries so why not just hack off ears too. I don't think there are many tail injuries but it's an argument the pro docking side hang onto to allow them dock the dogs.

sophie1234 · 20-10-2010 11:33am

quick question how do you tell if your dogs ears are docked?

when getting my schauzner i was told the ears hadnt been docked but im starting to think different now and my yorkies ears?

adser53 · 20-10-2010 11:39am

But how do they prove beyond any doubt that they're working dogs? And how come we still see so many dogs with ears and tails docked at dog shows? Are these dogs more than likely imported from countries where the practice is still acceptable? Like I said, i only saw my first full tailed rotties at the dog show in swords a few weeks back. All the dogs in the class were young dogs (maybe 12-18 months) and I'd guess that half of them had docked tails. Just to add, my knowledge of rotties is very limited and i have literally no knowledge on dog shows so I could be mistaken on the ages of the dogs

Raiser · 20-10-2010 11:40am

ISDW wrote: »

I actually thought it was illegal in this country, so that vet should be struck off. Unbelievable advice.

No lets shoot his whole Family and burn his House down and then strike him off :rolleyes:

- I'm 86.98% certain this advice was based on air circulation to the ear canal which in this case is obviously prone to recurring painful ear infections - Have you ever had one where you thought your head might split????

There a world of difference between removing surplus tissue for valid medical reasons and Scumbags butchering dogs to make them look cool :rolleyes:

ear pinning!!

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