Competition attendance numbers - Why are they so low?

bunny shooter

rrpc wrote: »

...............The real problems facing us are the lack of attendance at shoots which is a 32 county wide issue, so not directly related to the legislative framework here and the allied threat to the future existence of clubs.

This is a subject I have often wondered about myself.

As some here will be aware I was briefly involved in organising a few competitions which were to facilitate fox shooters to have a competition.

I was also involved in the planning stages of another proposed .22lr competition with two posters here, namely, dcorbus & clivej, which I had to pull back from due to work commitments.

I used to attend pistol matches when I had a centrefire pistol.

I am also a regular participant in the VCRAI classic rifle shoots.

I now have a .22lr pistol again and will be back on that competition scene shortly too.

Back to RRPC's quote.....................what exactly are the problems and what could be the possible solutions to this reluctance of so many people to attend competitions?

Cass

bunny shooter wrote:

......................... what exactly are the problems and what could be the possible solutions to this reluctance of so many people to attend competitions?

I don't know/think its reluctance for everyone. From my own point of view and those of the lads i've spoken to it comes down to two factors;

Money - Or lack thereof. Unemployment and watching their spending is a huge factor. Those still working are minding the pennies and those not working simply cannot afford to shoot either competitively or some, at all.

Time - This ties in with the money issue. Those with plently of time are (seemingly) unemployed and those still working may not have the time. Alot of the lads i know that are still working are either working every hour they can for more money or have to work every hour as let offs have reduced the companies work force.

Other factors may/are family issues, personal issues (health, etc), simple lack of interest in a chosen discipline. The other big issue (mainly for handguns) is no licenses. While some have gotten their licenses back others have not. So take into account the amount that got theirs back, then split it up with any of the factors previously mentioned and the numbers are drastically reduced.

The only solutions (from my point of view) are people getting back into work, earning money, getting from under this "cloud of depression" the entire country seems to be smothered in. When people are happier and earning they may begin enjoying shooting again and getting back into it.

Of course i could be way of base, and i can only speak for myself.

Tackleberrywho

Time is my issue, comps on on weekends only; rules me out time and again as i have to work.

Ammo availability is an issue for me, I find it hard to get .40s&W ammo of the same grain weight. Hard to get familiar enough to compete when you have several boxes of dissimilar ammo.

Also Comps generally start in the AM and anyone who works shift/long hours finds 10am kick off on a sat/sun more of a chore than fun.

My 2 cents

4gun

from a hunting point of veiw I would rather travel and spend my time hunting (Mallow for rabbits and Killarney for deer out my back window for foxes;)) I was a member of An Riocht R+P for a year a while ago and was never in formed as to when any compititions were actually taking place... which from a personal pointof veiw was irrevelant as I would not consider myself to be of a competitive nature ... i would rather pit my self against a wild animal than some one who has a bigget budget than me

bunny shooter

Thanks for the comments lads.

Come on lads/ladies keep your reasons coming a lot of "views" but no comments

Every reason is a valid reason.

Maybe some of them can be overcome

4gun

will definately, some time in the future get into target pistol ...

johngalway

No interest

Plus, no time and no money

Competitions were never my thing, I just like getting out for a walk with the gun and that's me happy.

Sparks

Personally, I love competing; for various personal reasons I can't compete on weekends at the moment and I dislike competing when I know my standard has slipped so far from where it was, but I don't think that those are the reasons for low competition attendance.

I know in DURC, a major factor is having to physically go to ranges (not all students have access to a car and college clubs don't have access to college buses ) on a weekend (most students have part-time jobs to pay bills and work weekends).

I remember hearing how a lot of N.Ireland shooters didn't travel to ROI shoots because the standard of the ranges was lower than in N.Ireland (and at the time, I can honestly say that that was a very accurate, and frankly, a very polite way of putting it) and because of the hassle with licences.

But a lot of it is mindset. The UCESSA postal usually has over a hundred people shooting an ISSF discipline in competition; it's not down to prize money or anything else; I think people just got in the collective habit of doing the match. The clubs organised around it - Comber used to have a large collection of pigeonholes built to hold club shooter's targets, and clubs had designated people who'd do the scoring and posting and secretarial work for the match.

Seems to me that the UCESSA postal would be a good place to start building up such a habit in ROI shooters...

Grizzly 45

Simply put with me..... MONEY!!:(.
Being self employed .. my busisness has gone to fuk,wasnt great at the best of times in the so called Celtic Tiger and having to fight to keep what I have was needed like a hole in the head this year!!Small THANKS to Dermot Aherne and local Cheif Supers:mad::mad::mad:.So trying to keep the head above water is difficult enough and trying to keep shooting at the same time is pretty difficult.

IRLConor

I make it to most ISSF/NTSA prone competitions. I only miss competitions when I've something unavoidable clashing with it.

I don't think I could take up another discipline seriously though, I just wouldn't have the time.

deeksofdoom

We run an annual clay shoot in our club, the numbers are down year on year. this year we just about broke even by the skin of our teeth. Attendance at clayshoots is down all over the country.

Its down to the whole economic situation, either fellahs have no work and those that have work are probably in negative equity and are watching their money.

Even the fellahs who are not affected by the money side of things aren't attending as their is no craic anymore.

Kryten

A couple of factors for me. This year so far has been a bit of a disaster and I find it difficult at the moment to get to some competitions.

That and the fact that I cannot shoot in Centerfire pistol at the moment, thanks to you know who...

I would to do more ISSF Pistol, but have been very unlucky with trying to get down to Rathdrum (who are the only ones doing ISSF Cartridge pistol events, thanks guys).

There is also the factor that a lot of the enthusiasm seems to have gone from the sport, again thanks to Mr Ahearn and his fiasco. I have been to the club many times and find I am the only one there.

While money is tight, I would to join another couple of clubs, as I shoot ISSF pistol, sporting pistol and Service rifle and waiting on a licence for a .22 Target Rifle. There is no one club covers all solution for me. But that will have to wait until other finacial commitments are met.

Paddy Diver

I'd like to try it, the .22 stuff but for me its the clubs. Im involved in other clubs for other sports and its always politics in some way and I dont want my shooting to go the same route.

Correct me if Im wrong about this but is my experience

Bananaman

NASRPC competition numbers have been ok this year - some of them at least.

The first competition of the year - the fundraiser - had over 120 competitors.

We have had over 30 competitors in some smallbore pistol events, benchrest rifle, as always, is well subscribed, Smallbore Gallery Rifle has been on the up, CF Gallery Rifle and CF Pistol have stagnated due to the new restricted class of the firearms and Sporting Rifle has been the same as always.

The number of competitions has been very high this year - I tbhink there will have been 17 by the end of the year.

It's a far cry from the numbers that would have been out a couple of years ago - my own view if that that is primarily due to a drop in disposable income.

NASRPC have drastically lowered their costs and hence the entry fees for competitions to try to help with that and provide people with as much opportunity as possible to compete.

I feel there may have also been a bit of lack of variety in the disciplines, which they have also sought to and are continuing to rectify.

I definitely think that this year is up on last year and hopefully next year will be even better.

B'Man

FISMA

BunnyShooter,
Are you asking about low numbers of competitors or spectators?

This is definitely one sport that I enjoy participating in, but not watching. It is just too boring for me to watch - no offence.

rrpc

Firstly, numbers are definitely down. Of the disciplines that are shot in Rathdrum, only the ISSF prone rifle is showing either a level or upward trend. Everything else is down.

Sporting rifle, Benchrest rifle, Benchrest pistol (in fact all pistol disciplines are down). The fact that these problems are being encountered north of the border makes it clear that there IS a problem.

Money is obviously a major factor. Dropping entry fees as we have done, appears not to have made a difference, which means that the other costs associated with attending competitions have a greater weight in the decision making process.

More competitions would also have to be factored in. With a finite number of competitors, the decision will come down to 'either or' rather than 'and'.

Lack of a competitive 'ethos'. This comes down to whether in fact we are promoting competition or not. If there's no incentive to compete, then maybe people just won't bother. Not everyone needs this, but if it's not present then nobody will come forward. It's no accident that Michael Walls got to where he is, he intended to get there and found (when there was nothing here), the competition abroad to bring him to the required standard. We can't expect everyone to be so self-motivated, we have to provide the infrastructure and environment to grow that talent organically.

Pretty much every other organsied sport in this country is organised on a competitive hierarchical structure. Why should we be any different?

There are comments here about budget making a difference. Seriously, that's an excuse, not a reason. There are guys shooting 30 year old rifles at the highest levels internationally and guys with the latest tricked out tools, making up the numbers. Sure, at the very fine edge of competition when it's down to tenths of a millimetre, a bit more money may make a difference. But in shooting as in all other sports, it's raw talent that will always win out over the chequebook.

I honestly don't understand the comment about politics in clubs. It's not something I've encountered and it certainly wouldn't interfere with my competitive ambitions one way or the other. A ten's a ten and a burst clay's a burst clay.

And finally for Sparks (and anyone else that adopts the same stance): if you won't compete until you think you're good enough, well you're never going to. There's nothing like a good beating to give you the incentive to get better and there's nothing like procrastination to stop you :rolleyes:

I would never pose a question without at least attempting to try and find some answers. There's no easy answer to the financial problems people are encountering; when your next meal is the focus of your day, shooting and leisure pursuits go out the window. Having said that, there's always an option to focus on one thing, do the cheapest form of it you can find (even if that's just dry-firing in your sitting room), so that when finances allow, you can resume without having lost your edge.

Perhaps we are running too many competitions. I'm not suggesting that we have 'empty' weekends, but perhaps we could be a bit more focused and give individual disciplines more attention. Things like what Midlands did recently, where an entire weekend was spent on prone rifle only. All the reports I heard back from that were unfailingly positive and provided an invaluable learning experience for those who competed.

Prizes could be monetary instead of (or as well as) medals and trophies. A guy who barely scraped the entry fee together will really appreciate geting it back for his efforts on the day. It need not be money, a couple of boxes of ammo could have the same affect.

Bring more people into the sport. This is something we all can do. If everyone resolved to bring one new person into the sport next year, we would double our numbers.

There are probably many other things such as clubs providing enough equipment to start new members off with and reduced membership fees for the unemployed, students etc.

bunny shooter

FISMA wrote: »

BunnyShooter,
Are you asking about low numbers of competitors or spectators?

This is definitely one sport that I enjoy participating in, but not watching. It is just too boring for me to watch - no offence.

Competitors

Like ya say it isn't really a spectator sport :pac:

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

And finally for Sparks (and anyone else that adopts the same stance): if you won't compete until you think you're good enough, well you're never going to.

Oh come on rrpc, you know I don't stay away until I'm perfect
But right now, I have difficulty getting through a full course of fire without hurting my back. The gym work is helping, but it's only been a fortnight. I'll be back up to a reasonable enough form in another three or four weeks.

Prizes could be monetary instead of (or as well as) medals and trophies. A guy who barely scraped the entry fee together will really appreciate geting it back for his efforts on the day. It need not be money, a couple of boxes of ammo could have the same affect.

Yup - or, as rathdrum does annually, consumables (turkeys, wine, etc )

There are probably many other things such as clubs providing enough equipment to start new members off with and reduced membership fees for the unemployed, students etc.

Add pushing postal matches to that list; if shoulder-to-shoulder is too expensive and awkward, a postal league might well be just the thing.

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

Competitors

Like ya say it isn't really a spectator sport :pac:

You know I hate to disagree with you bunny , but with the advent of electronic scoring, it has become a spectator sport.

On competition day in Rathdrum, you have to beat your way through the crowd around the monitor to get into the range

bunny shooter

rrpc wrote: »

You know I hate to disagree with you bunny , but with the advent of electronic scoring, it has become a spectator sport.

On competition day in Rathdrum, you have to beat your way through the crowd around the monitor to get into the range

:eek: Are these other competitors or actual spectators?

Maybe only shooters find only spectating at shoots boring

Bananaman

We used to have one fantastic spectator shooting sport - but unfortunately not anymore

Legislative messing over the last two years has had an untold impact on shooting sports participation - not just in competition - but none on crime - so that has to be seen to be a failure for which we are paying.

There is no doubt that this coinciding with the economic downturn and the collapse of the Irish workforce has been an absolute disaster for the sport.

RRPC made a few very good points - best among them - if we all made an effort to introduce one more person to the shooting sports we would double the numbers.

Looking at a different awards structure - potentially having monetary return - has a lot of merit - if there was any money - but that will require a bit of a sea change and changes to costs structures - but like I said - it has merit and is worthy of further analysis.

In terms of there being too many competitions for people to choose from - a wee bit of co-ordination between the NGBS and clubs - not a big deal - would sort that out.

B'Man

rrpc

Bananaman wrote: »

In terms of there being too many competitions for people to choose from - a wee bit of co-ordination between the NGBS and clubs - not a big deal - would sort that out.

B'Man

Between clubs B'man, two NGBs that I know of don't organise matches at all, bar nationals or selections (which are relatively closed events anyway).

But that's not the substantive point in any case. What I'm suggesting is that one discipline be concentrated on in one event. This may develop a deeper interest in that discipline by people who may only be partially inclined where it's one of a number of events. Basically turn 'dabblers' into more serious competitors. Lads who 'do a bit of this and a bit of that' tend not to be that committed to anything, so long as there's something to have a go at when it takes their fancy.

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

:eek: Are these other competitors or actual spectators?

Maybe only shooters find only spectating at shoots boring

Mostly competitors. There'd be a few spectators who aren't competing, but it's the competitors who really congregate around the screens.

When you're watching a guy put in ten after ten as I was this morning and another guy beside him doing the same thing (both dropped two 9s in 20 shots), you can't help but watch.

IRLConor

rrpc wrote: »

There's nothing like a good beating to give you the incentive to get better

+1

TBH, if I wasn't being beaten I probably wouldn't compete.

Bananaman wrote: »

Looking at a different awards structure - potentially having monetary return - has a lot of merit - if there was any money - but that will require a bit of a sea change and changes to costs structures - but like I said - it has merit and is worthy of further analysis.

Even just giving back the entry fees can be quite a nice touch. I shot in a WTSC match a while back and the winners got their entries (€15) back. They probably spent as much in ammo, but it was a nice touch and appreciated by all who got it.

As much as I like my medals and crystal, I think money or ammo is probably a more useful prize when money is tight. It might lure some more of the stingy students out too.

xesse

I am only talking pistol competitions here cos its all i shoot....
I believe the reason the pistol numbers are so low is down too one a couple of things .
The main one is that you dont need to shoot pistol ompetition to own a pistol. People say it's a lack of good ammo,time issue, family etc ,at the end of it all if you had too shoot competition to keep your firearm there would be a healthy shooting scene in this country.
Don't all start explaining that you " like to shoot with my buddies on the range" or " like to destress by banging out a few shots from time to time cos i like doing that too. But every pistol shooter should go to at least 2 pistol competitions.

poulo6.5

I would love to attend a comp but I never hear about them. I'm looking into buying a pistol soon. And I will be joining a range this week for that purpose so I might get to hear about and maybe attend a competition. I'm looking forward to it.

What would be a good starter hand gun.

Tackleberrywho

xesse wrote: »

I am only talking pistol competitions here cos its all i shoot....
I believe the reason the pistol numbers are so low is down too one a couple of things .
The main one is that you dont need to shoot pistol ompetition to own a pistol. People say it's a lack of good ammo,time issue, family etc ,at the end of it all if you had too shoot competition to keep your firearm there would be a healthy shooting scene in this country.
Don't all start explaining that you " like to shoot with my buddies on the range" or " like to destress by banging out a few shots from time to time cos i like doing that too. But every pistol shooter should go to at least 2 pistol competitions.

Put a pistol comp on a Friday afternoon and I will go!!
I also don't like the concept of forcing someone to have to shoot comps.

Sport is exactly that, Sport.
Some may like comps.
Personally I don't, I have seen how guys can get so an*l about comps in every aspect of life. Life is competitive enough, without forcing comps on anyone.
I equally don't shoot rifle comps, and why should I?
I practice constantly, I am always trying to beat MY best.
I don't care about what others can do, I only care what my best group is.

That I believe is my prerogative. If I was always competing the love of the "sport" would go out of it.
And I don't believe I am alone on that score.

Paulo6.5, if I wanted a nice starter pistol
This is a little beaut

xesse

Well... If you dont like pistol comps and you dont shoot in pistol comps why are you posting on this topic which is about low attendance numbers?

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Put a pistol comp on a Friday

afternoon and I will go!!
I also don't like the concept of forcing someone to have to shoot comps.

Sport is exactly that, Sport.
Some may like comps.
Personally I don't, I have seen how guys can get so an*l about comps in every aspect of life. Life is competitive enough, without forcing comps on anyone.
I equally don't shoot rifle comps, and why should I?
I practice constantly, I am always trying to beat MY best.
I don't care about what others can do, I only care what my best group is.

That I believe is my prerogative. If I was always competing the love of the "sport" would go out of it.
And I don't believe I am alone on that score.

Paulo6.5, if I wanted a nice starter pistol
This is a little beaut

Tackleberrywho

xesse wrote: »

Well... If you dont like pistol comps and you dont shoot in pistol comps why are you posting on this topic which is about low attendance numbers?

Because the question was asked why competition attendance is low, many others also posted that do not compete!!!
If comps were more Fun based (and on a Friday) I'd go to loads!!

My point is Forcing people is not the answer.

Grizzly 45

FWIW.I definately think the idea of money as a prize is a winner.[no pun]The idea of winning ,or breaking even possibly is a very strong incentive to better your scores,I have found this from personal experiance.But the idea of winning an oul bit of plastic or somthing resembling a trophy,[unless it is somthing that can actually be taken off you next year by a better shooter] Doesnt really appeal.Of course we could go the UK route of the silver teaspoons in Bisley[?] too.
As for making people compete to keep their liscenses.Well,that will activly DIScourage anyone from bothering to take up the sport.You have to jumnp all this BS and then be TOLD you MUST shoot in competitions.What then ?You MUST score a certain percentage or you MUST aquire a certtain grade??No thanks,I'd hand in my pistol then and concentrate on somthing else.That reeks of a dictatorship of sport and govt.:(

xesse

You should get your club to organise one for a friday so... i,d go to that:D
And all the comps i go too are more fun ... just ask the lads that shoot them:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Because the question was asked why competition attendance is low, many others also posted that do not compete!!!
If comps were more Fun based (and on a Friday) I'd go to loads!!

My point is Forcing people is not the answer.