5,000 a week pension !!

the purple tin

Barack Obama only makes about 20,000 euro more than that per year :eek:
Just who does comes up with these massive salaries and pensions?
Did this NTMA bloke originally get offered a 5,000 a week pension or did he have to haggle it up to that figure before he signed his contract?

th3 s1aught3r

the purple tin wrote: »

Did this NTMA bloke originally get offered a 5,000 a week pension or did he have to haggle it up to that figure before he signed his contract?

He probably got to name his price. Its nobodys money to these guys, it just taxpayers money

randylonghorn

challengemaster wrote: »

265k/year vs ~3bn/year

Yeah, MUCH worse for the economy. They should totally leave the dole alone :rolleyes:

So because, as a result of the hubris and ineptitude of our political and economic leaders, the numbers of unemployed claiming social welfare has shot up, as therefore has the overall bill, the solution is to cut social welfare and continue to pay huge salaries and pensions to those self-same political and economic leaders, simply because the overall bill for that will be smaller than the SW bill?

How does that constitute either logic or justice?!

There will probably have to be cuts in SW, but that will be a lot more acceptable to the ordinary people of this country if they see their "leaders" actually leading, and taking a sharp axe to those inflated salaries and pensions.


In fairness, Michael Somers has shown himself to be a pretty capable guy, and one capable of independent thought and of actually articulating it publicly even when it was unpopular with the politicos, and there is no reason why he shouldn't be entitled to retire on a decent pension and live comfortably.

He doesn't need €5,000 a week though, nor anything like it.

skyhighflyer

Sykk wrote: »

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Wow, an ASCII facepalm! You are so funny and original, you'd think that the 4,396th time it was posted it would have stopped being funny but no, this is the internet meme that keeps on giving :pac: Did you think people would think you were clever for posting that?

How about some reasoned argument instead? Or hell, even a post with any content at all? I'm assuming because all you posted was a stupid ASCII you don't have anything to say on this issue, but I'm always happy to be proved wrong.

RMD

He doesn't need 5,000 euro a week, definitely not. It's not his fault though, it's the ****ing retard in charge who allowed him to get a pension of 5,000 euro a week.

Blaming this man himself for having a high pension is pure idiotic, blame the people in charge. I doubt very much anyone here would turn down a 5,000 euro a week pension if offered one.

Absurdum

Bank of Ireland pumped €1.5m into the pension pot of Mr Boucher, who has an option to retire in four years' time at the age of 55 with an annual pension of €367,570.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-to-face-grilling-on-bankers-pension-topup-2143012.html

Wertz

PeakOutput wrote: »

i have no problem with agreeing that pay and pensions over the entire public sector are ridicolous and need to be changed. i have a serious problem with the demonisation of individuals who did nothing wrong but work for an extravagantly paying goverment.

...and I have no problem agreeing with the bits you decided to quote.
I have raised a similar view in a thread on the pay of RTE's top "stars" re: pay...and have said similar to you....that anyone offered such levels of salary and associated perks and pensions would be crazy to turn it down.
I am not demonising Mr Somers (in fact from what I've read, he seems to have been at least worth the wage, and possibly saw what was coming at anglo before anyone in government, although why he chose not to inform some of his paymasters at the time reminas a mystery ), I am criticising the system that has allowed the culture of high salary and insane levels of pension, that now seeks to cut the pretty basic levels of welfare that so many people are reliant upon in the reality of Ireland 2010 and onwards.
More stable doors swinging shut...same as it ever was in political Ireland.


[edit] Oh and just to add this:

RTE news article wrote:

But she reserved some harsh criticism for the way the salary was decided. The NTMA's advisory committee comes up with the figure and the Minister for Finance signs off on it.

She said the remuneration process was quite extraordinary, and she criticised the fact that there was no paper trail supporting it, and no officials present at the meeting between the Minister and the chairperson of the NTMA's remuneration committee.

Mr Somers' overall pay for 2007 cannot be revealed because the department has no record whatsoever of the figure. (!!!)

My emphasis
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0917/ntma2-business.html

No paper trail? Seemingly no accountabiltity of who in fact decided on the salary?
This sounds just too much like an Old Boy's Club tye arrangment or something that was signed off on in a liquid lunch in Buswells.
Again, not to blame Somers...but WTF is going on when people getting 500K a year weren't even having it decided by some transparent and publically accesible process?

squeakyduck

This is the type of pension I hope to get when I'm due it! I want to be a very rich old lady with wanderlust and own several overseas properties and live out of the country for 6 months of the year to avoid tax and all that shiite!:rolleyes:

th3 s1aught3r

Wertz wrote: »

...No paper trail? Seemingly no accountabiltity of who in fact decided on the salary?

Thats exactly right. In a private enterprise its the owners, or managers on behalf of owner, who decide on the pay you get, its their money and they are very careful with it.
When we enter the public arena its nobodys money, its taxpayers money. So a manager in the public sector will award what they like, at the end of the day what do they care ??

Wertz

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Thats exactly right. In a private enterprise its the owners, or managers on behalf of owner, who decide on the pay you get, its their money and they are very careful with it.
When we enter the public arena its nobodys money, its taxpayers money. So a manager in the public sector will award what they like, at the end of the day what do they care ??

Whilst true, I don't find any of that as disturbing as this bit:

Mr Somers' overall pay for 2007 cannot be revealed because the department has no record whatsoever of the figure.

Currently sitting here trying to do my tax return...I don't have any employees but if I did, I'd sure as hell be required by some Revenue legislation somewhere to have not only a record of what I paid an employee, but numerous other details about them and their work record for the year, alongside receipts and financial statements to back all of that up. If that is the case for a private employer dealing with someone on an average industrila wage, then why isn't it the same at the €550K +bonus salaried in the civil service?

It's these double standards that piss me off the most.
Consolidated debt for all, but a differing set of rules for the most highly paid at the top of the state bodies that let all of this madness occur on their watch.

th3 s1aught3r

Wertz wrote: »

Whilst true, I don't find any of that as disturbing as this bit:

Mr Somers' overall pay for 2007 cannot be revealed because the department has no record whatsoever of the figure.

Currently sitting here trying to do my tax return...I don't have any employees but if I did, I'd sure as hell be required by some Revenue legislation somewhere to have not only a record of what I paid an employee, but numerous other details about them and their work record for the year, alongside receipts and financial statements to back all of that up. If that is the case for a private employer dealing with someone on an average industrila wage, then why isn't it the same at the €550K +bonus salaried in the civil service?

It's these double standards that piss me off the most.
Consolidated debt for all, but a differing set of rules for the most highly paid at the top of the state bodies that let all of this madness occur on their watch.

Yes and if you didnt file a return or it was misleading, you would face harsh penalties for it

mikerowsopht

Personally I don't think he got enough for the work he put in

reprazant

I am sure the OP, if offered a pension like that from the state, would refuse it.

To do otherwise would be just hypocritical and would open him up to accusations of suffering from nothing but bitter jealousy.

th3 s1aught3r

reprazant wrote: »

I am sure the OP, if offered a pension like that from the state, would refuse it.

To do otherwise would be just hypocritical and would open him up to accusations of suffering from nothing but bitter jealousy.

So if I have a problem with someone getting a state pension of 5k a week and I post about it here I am nothing other than jealous ? and everyone else who has posted, they are all just jealous too,
Can you think of any other reason, no?
Thinking is good, try it sometime

Wertz

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Can you think of any other reason, no?

Begrudgery.

bladespin

Wasn't that negotiated when he took the job? I don't see what he has done wrong, if anything he's excelled in the job and is only getting what he's due. TBH look at the salaries and pensions/handshakes given to directors of multinationals (comparable job IMO) and you'll see it's in line.

I have a question for the begrudgers, how can we get the best talent into these jobs if we don't offer them competitive salaries (and pensions)? We need the likes of Sommers now more than ever.
No-one's going to do the job out of national pride if they can join a company that offers more for the same/similar jobs.

professore

This guy saved us from going bankrupt (at least for now).

Of all the examples to use, this is the worst one, as he is one of the few who deserved a good salary & pension etc.

If I pay you € 20 a week and you cost me € 100 through screwups you are overpaid. If I pay you €20,000 a week and you make me € 200,000 you are underpaid ....

Amazing how few seem to grasp this simple maths.

As for our TD's, we pay them 300 K + per annum and they cost us 60 billion. This guy saved our asses and also managed to build up a big pension fund that made money every year and has already lessened the cost of bailing out the banks ... now THERE's a better example of wasted money.

th3 s1aught3r

bladespin wrote: »

TBH look at the salaries and pensions/handshakes given to directors of multinationals (comparable job IMO) and you'll see it's in line.

I have a question for the begrudgers, how can we get the best talent into these jobs if we don't offer them competitive salaries (and pensions)? We need the likes of Sommers now more than ever.

Multinationals dont pay their staff with public money

How is this begrudgery? Are we not allowed to question what our money is used for ??
We offer them great salaries and pensions, (5k a week) now, where is the talent ?

PeakOutput

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Multinationals dont pay their staff with public money

How is this begrudgery? Are we not allowed to question what our money is used for ??
We offer them great salaries and pensions, (5k a week) now, where is the talent ?

of course you can

demonising a private citizen is not the way to do it and you have to accept that even though he works for the goverment that dosnt automatically entitle you to know every detail about his life. not even every financial detail

bladespin

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Multinationals dont pay their staff with public money

How is this begrudgery? Are we not allowed to question what our money is used for ??
We offer them great salaries and pensions, (5k a week) now, where is the talent ?

I agree but we're trying to attract people from the same pool as they are. If you want someone capable of doing the job you'll have to pay.

Problem here is no-one questioned where the money was going until now, now anyone earning anything substantial is for the chopping board of public opinion regardless of wheter they're worth it or not, we need top talent for these jobs, in this case we were lucky enough to land exactly that, in so many others we were handed a crony, in this case the man's done an incredibly good job and retires on his (deserved) pension, why pick this for scorn? begrudgery, simple.

th3 s1aught3r

bladespin wrote: »

Problem here is no-one questioned where the money was going until now, .

Exactly. They were able to name their own salaries it seems

bladespin

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Exactly. They were able to name their own salaries it seems

Absolutely and worse again most went into very important roles, they may not have seemed so at the time but we all know now how much damage they were able to do, a certain financial regulator springs to mind. The danger now is creating a witch hunt that will put the genuinely talented off taking up public jobs

AskMyChocolate

skyhighflyer wrote: »

The NTMA do an excellent job and this man deserves his pension. Despite FF's ineptitude, they managed to keep us afloat this year by taking the opportunity to issue bonds when market conditions were favourable.

They also front-loaded our finances in the beginning of the year, which meant we were able to take a break from the market when yields shot up to ~6% this year. If they hadn't, we'd quite possibly be bankrupt right now.

Do you know anything of the NTMA and its work or are you just annoyed that a professional who did excellent work in service of the State is well paid?

I totally agree, and as a militant socialist, this may seem odd. He did an excellent job as head of the NTMA given the mission statement he was given. I find his remuneration excessive and his lack of will to take on the might of Leinster House infuriating, but he was not there to set policy. He's no Eugene Mc Erleane, (who should now be financial regulator) but he at least made it perfectly clear that he'd have nothing to do with NAMA or the pissing away of the small national pension fund that he tried to build in the face of the "skimming" of the national resources by McCreevy and Aherne and their sleveen mates.

Amhran Nua

Wertz wrote: »

but WTF is going on when people getting 500K a year weren't even having it decided by some transparent and publically accesible process?

The civil service needs significant top down reform, simply put.

Celly Smunt

right thats it,i'm going to get up and protest next monday :rolleyes:

Precious flower

It's a joke sure Brian Cowen gets paid more than Barack Obama!? I mean come on!!:mad: I have a hard time believing how that has not been addressed. If they're so happy to cut our wages than theirs should be severely reduced.

Celly Smunt

Precious flower wrote: »

It's a joke sure Brian Cowen gets paid more than Barack Obama!? I mean come on!!:mad: I have a hard time believing how that has not been addressed. If they're so happy to cut our wages than theirs should be severely reduced.

but what does Barack Obama have to pay for?

AskMyChocolate

De Dannan wrote: »

This is the same tripe we are being fed constantly by politicians and people who are benefiting from these huge inequalities
who is paying these salaries and pensions anyway ????
This man was paid a HUGE salary and is now entitled to 5k a week. Im sick of the constant 'hes entitled to it you know' ****e. NO ONE is entitled to 5,000 a week pension, paid by the state I dont care who they are
It is obvious that we are NEVER going to get out of this economic hole with the current political system, where people actually seem to name their own salaries and politicians can vote for pay increases, hmmm

These politicians, civil servents and bankers sit there laughing at the rest of us and our inability to change the system.
We have an ex leader who once addressed both house of US government and who tells us he brought peace, now sits in a cupboard for a tabloid rag, bankers who leg it to the US to hide from the law, NTMA boss who did such a great job even though we are in an economic mess
please :rolleyes:

I agree wholeheartedly with your post but I don't think it is fair to lump Michael Somers in with the self-serving filth that you have so eloquently encapsulated above. He was employed to manage the National Treasury and when the world went bang, we were invested in good stocks and bonds, good futures and had a good supply of cash on hand. We were basically in the same boat as Warren Buffet.We'd taken a hit but there were others weaker. Somers actually did slightly better. The difference is, that Warren Buffet used this financial prudence to make an absolute packet (in real wealth terms) rather than blow the entire lot in an effort to keep his lazy, incompetent, paymasters and their privileged cohorts out of jail.

Is Michael Somers entitled to his pension ? I would have to say no. He can't have it both ways. Had he come out publicly and stated that the banks shouldn't be rescued under any circumstances unless their German creditors were willing to pay all administration fees, he was not acting in the interests of the NTMA and had he been with Goldman Sachs he would have made a fortune. Instead he became a pawn of Leinster House privilege.

If he was in the private sector he would have advised the government to put all the banks into administration, get rid of all the top brass, buy them for €1 each and charge their creditors a healthy administration fee for trying to sort out the mess.

Basically, behave like a developer, dealing with NAMA.

If we have to pay through the nose for a complete lack of values, we should at least get our money's worth No?

AskMyChocolate

Wertz wrote: »

The one thing I don't understand about cases like this (and it's certainly not ioslated) is why if these guys are on such huge salaries that they aren't in private pension schemes...I mean if the State pays that level of wage to an employee over a course of a 20+ yr career, why can't they pay into a private pension and reap the tax breaks that that allows for....no, instead they are paid the huge salary and the defined benefit pension both from state coffers as coughed up by Joe Taxpayer.
Also, don't these guys have savings and share/property portfolios to live off?

For people making the point that docking a euro from each of the 450K plus dole recipients does more to reduce expenditure than slashing Somer's pension, that's fine...but such high levels of remuneration are seen as overly lavish when placed alongside the cuts being proposed.

This man might have been worth both the salary and the pension...how many out there including many of your current and ex TDs aren't? How many others in the civl service waltz off into the dusk with a small fortune leaving the bill with the rest of us?
Such imbalances serve only to diminish the trust of the general population in the system that is supposed to serve them but seemingly only serves itself and it's closed circle of cohorts.

Superb post chief. There's more to justice than sums. And justice is far more important to the have-nots than it is to the haves, despite the muddling of law and order and justice.

AskMyChocolate

the purple tin wrote: »

Barack Obama only makes about 20,000 euro more than that per year :eek:
Just who does comes up with these massive salaries and pensions?
Did this NTMA bloke originally get offered a 5,000 a week pension or did he have to haggle it up to that figure before he signed his contract?

The Board of Directors of Goldman Sachs, who are elected on a proxy vote by the board of directors of AIG, who are elected by the board of Credit suisse, who are elected by the board of Goldman Sachs.... and woops there goes your forty years of contribution to society (and your grandkids next forty, just to sweeten the deal), see'ya in the Sandy Lane Beach Hotel.

I'll be the one standing at the bar with a red carnation sipping a martini.:cool:

Oh FFS I'm the one with the grenade.:mad: