who are they ?

brocdubh

has anyone any idea who these people calling themselves I W F C S S (irish wildlife forestry controlled shooting services) are ? I have met a few people who have come across them in clare and tipp/cork area,they seem to be touring areas trying to get as many permissions as possible and are never seen again.

yog1

would they be getting permissions as possible so that they can return as a shooting holiday group later in the year on or next year

pedroeibar1

irish wildlife forestry controlled shooting services is not a company nor is it registered as a business name.
In my view if they were 'honest' either of the above would have been done... make your own mind up....;)
P.

brocdubh

havn`t a clue who they are, some kind of syndicate, but they have already stepped on a few toes i believe in the west limerick/nth kerry area, with the usual "we have sole rights to shoot here mesage"

brocdubh

as far as i can find out they are not registered as a club either

poulo6.5

I shoot in tip and Kerry but i'v never heard of them. I'd like them to try tell me I can't shoot here. As I have written permission from from most of mine and know all the rest.

It wasn't me!

Sounds like a right pack of gougers. If you meet any of them, ask them for evidence that they own the sporting rights exclusively if they get stroppy. Bloody stupid name anyway; sounds like whoever came up with it used some sort of fieldsports buzzword generator and glued all the results together with a few of their own personal favourite words.

CJhaughey

They could possibly be meat hunters, just out to clean an area out and sell the carcasses to the dealers.

brocdubh

they approached my brother in law in clare earlier this year for permission and told him that they would have sole hunting rights,their rep was told to go back to the ferry very politely, as the local gun club and relations already had written permissions on his land, i hope one of them approach me and give me the"you cant shoot here routine"also see reply to cjhaughy.

brocdubh

you hit it right on the nail,met my butcher earlier today, he says they are well known around north kerry area, they go to areas for a couple of days at a time and shoot as much as they can and sell it on apparently one of their number has a large cold store in his garden.

medicman

down on one of our permissions last week down kenmare way, received a call from the farmer, his next door neighbour had a guy shooting 18 deer in 1 day, male, female and calf's for dog food, might be the same guys, i was not impressed, i asked my farmer to keep a lookout and get the reg of the van next time and i will contact the garda and npws about same. we informed our farmer that it was against the law to shoot like that this time season, but he stated that his next door neighbour was unaware of the shooting as he was out until his next door neighbour told him a few days later, just remember next door is a misnomer, next door is 1-2 klicks away.

anyway, we will be keeping a sharp eye out for these b******s and hope to catch them in the act.

brocdubh

theres a funny thing, a friend of mine came across these guys in the mastergeahy area which isn`t a million miles from kenmare a while back with a trailer load of deer, the only other thing i know about them is they have these big magnetic stickers on their jeeps with the"deerhunters" and "IWFCSS deer management services" on them, i`ll get into my local gun dealers before the day is out to find out the story behind these cowboys.

pedroeibar1

medicman wrote: »

down on one of our permissions last week down kenmare way, .....anyway, we will be keeping a sharp eye out for these b******s and hope to catch them in the act.

Medicman, I know 2 members of AGS living in that #area# - it would be no harm to have a word. You probably know their houses if you shoot there;)
Rs
P.

bunny shooter

Is what these people are doing actually illegal? ......... assuming they have relevant hunting & firearms permits, have permission to shoot on the land they are shooting over and are not shooting out of season?

CJhaughey

bunny shooter wrote: »

Is what these people are doing actually illegal? ......... assuming they have relevant hunting & firearms permits, have permission to shoot on the land they are shooting over and are not shooting out of season?

I wouldn't think so

Medicman wrote: »

reckons 18 deer in 1 day, male, female and calf's

Females and antlerless will be illegal until 1 Nov.

bunny shooter

CJhaughey wrote: »

I wouldn't think so

Females and antlerless will be illegal until 1 Nov.

I know shooting larger numbers of deer and selling the meat to game dealers may not be very sporting but is is actually illegal?

J. Ramone

bunny shooter wrote: »

I know shooting larger numbers of deer and selling the meat to game dealers may not be very sporting but is is actually illegal?

Taxable anyway;)

This kind of thing is not new. I know a farmer who was touted by his forestry consultant on behalf of an outfit with a refrigerated truck who would arrange for the out of season/lamping permits.

bunny shooter

The only way to catch these for tax is to get the game dealers to deduct it at source and submit it to revenue with full details of who it is

Glensman

Just read this thread and can't believe this is happening. It's just wrong :mad:

sikastag

Glensman wrote: »

Just read this thread and can't believe this is happening. It's just wrong :mad:

Unfortunatley more widespread than one would think. Some permissions, some not, some legal, some not, some 'reputable' people within the 'trade', some not. Best we can do is try and mind our own corners, those of us that are legit and help each other out. Lads that are above board I have no qualms with as long as their hunger be it meat, cash or otherwise does not result in the decimation of a healthy herd. Would be a shame and extremely shortsighted.

brocdubh

this crowd are selling venison from a cold room in a back yard

brocdubh

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Medicman, I know 2 members of AGS living in that #area# - it would be no harm to have a word. You probably know their houses if you shoot there;)
Rs
P.

had a chat with a guy who knows these characters,they turn up with a fist full of paper work saying all "your neighbours have signed up routine"next thing you have between 4 and 6 of them blasting everything in sight, stags,young bucks,hinds,fawns

brocdubh

J. Ramone wrote: »

Taxable anyway;)

This kind of thing is not new. I know a farmer who was touted by his forestry consultant on behalf of an outfit with a refrigerated truck who would arrange for the out of season/lamping permits.

i think this how they get a lot of their info from, one of them works for a certain forestry company !

brocdubh

these characters are based between listowel and ballylongford area and they have another base down in ballysaggartmore in waterford according to my info,most of what they shoot goes to a "greyhound man" but their head man is selling venison from a cold room at the back of his house,three of their number cruise around different areas with a fist full of paperwork and call to landowners telling them that their neighbours have signed up,next thing they arrive in force and shoot everything,stags,bucks,hinds, fawns

medicman

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Medicman, I know 2 members of AGS living in that #area# - it would be no harm to have a word. You probably know their houses if you shoot there;)
Rs
P.

yep, talking to everyone we know, and even those we dont, this has to be stamped out FAST, get their licences and rifles taken off them by the garda, this is what is needed.
As hunters countrywide, we should all be looking out for this type of slaughter, as thats what it is, no mistake, they are not hunters, just shooting anything that moves, the way they do shoot, its only a matter of time before livestock is shot or god forbid, someone/farmer walking along.

pedroeibar1

If Broc dubh knows the name of the guy selling from his house, it would be no harm to check to see if he had a dealers license - have a look at the Act first, http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1976/en/act/pub/0039/sec0048.html#zza39y1976s48 If he is not registerd, report him.
In any event a call to the Dept of AG & Food (or whatever has that function now) should be made - see if he is compliant with H & S regs. (they are really onerous for food cos) and a call to the Revenue should also be made;)

My understanding of business law is that their IWFCCS has no legal standing as it is neither a registered partnership nor a company - it is simply an unregistered business name being used by a group of people who should be named on any document. Those individuals are collectively sole traders and as such are individually liable. My guess also is that the Companies Registrar would refuse such a name as it could be confused with the Irish Wildlife and Forestry Commission - no doubt what these gougers intend in the first place!
If anyone is bothered to spend a tenner or so at www.cro.ie they could take the name and register it!:D:D
P.

brocdubh

medicman wrote: »

yep, talking to everyone we know, and even those we dont, this has to be stamped out FAST, get their licences and rifles taken off them by the garda, this is what is needed.
As hunters countrywide, we should all be looking out for this type of slaughter, as thats what it is, no mistake, they are not hunters, just shooting anything that moves, the way they do shoot, its only a matter of time before livestock is shot or god forbid, someone/farmer walking along.

spent a couple of hours in my local gun dealers yesterday, these gougers are well known to him, one of them, by his own admission shot 138 deer alone last season, apparently they started as a genuine club a number of years ago and the usual happened money,money,money the decent shooters left the club to the gouger element took over,i was also tipped off to expect "a visit" from two of their number very shortly,hope they are that stupid !!!!!!!

brocdubh

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

If Broc dubh knows the name of the guy selling from his house, it would be no harm to check to see if he had a dealers license - have a look at the Act first, http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1976/en/act/pub/0039/sec0048.html#zza39y1976s48 If he is not registerd, report him.
In any event a call to the Dept of AG & Food (or whatever has that function now) should be made - see if he is compliant with H & S regs. (they are really onerous for food cos) and a call to the Revenue should also be made;)

My understanding of business law is that their IWFCCS has no legal standing as it is neither a registered partnership nor a company - it is simply an unregistered business name being used by a group of people who should be named on any document. Those individuals are collectively sole traders and as such are individually liable. My guess also is that the Companies Registrar would refuse such a name as it could be confused with the Irish Wildlife and Forestry Commission - no doubt what these gougers intend in the first place!
If anyone is bothered to spend a tenner or so at www.cro.ie they could take the name and register it!:D:D
P.

your 110% right, i was in my local gun dealers yesterday, he had one of their old "membership cards" strikingly similer to irish wildlife i d card,i think thats how they are operating in a lot of areas,some people may believe that they are the irish wildlife and forestry service,to be honest i did at first.

medicman

brocdubh wrote: »

spent a couple of hours in my local gun dealers yesterday, these gougers are well known to him, one of them, by his own admission shot 138 deer alone last season, apparently they started as a genuine club a number of years ago and the usual happened money,money,money the decent shooters left the club to the gouger element took over,i was also tipped off to expect "a visit" from two of their number very shortly,hope they are that stupid !!!!!!!

if they do vist you, make sure you have a witness or 2 with you, also for safety sake.

Grizzly 45

brocdubh wrote: »

this crowd are selling venison from a cold room in a back yard

Intresting..No doubt they have all the revelant Health and saftey permits and food handling requirements in place from local and national health authorthies,when selling a foodstuff for human consumption????????????

brocdubh

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Intresting..No doubt they have all the revelant Health and saftey permits and food handling requirements in place from local and national health authorthies,when selling a foodstuff for human consumption????????????

the guy doing the selling does most definately not have any form of cerification of any kind,he`s got an old cold room in his back yard.